Yet another sexless marriage rant

[tnttim]

Porks dude wtf!!!

 

The crazy thing is I get what your saying and I can see it working on some woman but every woman, no way. I understand that it provides shock value and awakens a deep feeling in his wife.

My other point is that you have sexual value, he doesn't. That's like saying a Jay Z got Beyonce because of his looks. If he tried this on his wife it would cause her to be disgusted completely at sex with him. Now if his wife got the chance to have sex with a famous actor she wanted, then he could what he wanted.

 

That's why I say try to emulate her secret desires traits. Be desirable to other women, even if they are not pretty. Let your W see that other woman want you and your stock goes up. Tell her that she's flirting with you. Tell her you'll do something but no sex. The point is woman will do the opposite of what you want them to do. Try it out.

[WalkingOnEggs]

I think I pinned down exactly what bothers me the most about all this. It feels like unrequited love. And yet I'm married. How ridiculous is that?

[Hoovie]

My POS... ahem.. SO.... has stopped with the sex. The rare occassional sex that I might finally get out of him is awesome... and he obviously enjoys it or he should win Oscars.

 

I'm annoying apparently. I'm not allowed to grope, fondle, pinch, tickle, spank... kissing with tongue is not acceptable unless we've got naked body parts. (I'm an X-freak... I still like a little push-u-pull-me... )

 

I've caught a couple text messages on his phone to some girl at his work. I assume she's so cute, and she's un-annoying... and he feels like making the sex with me would be cheating with the work girl!? That's just an assumption, but it's possibly accurate.

 

Yes, I'm so insecure I look in his phone. Well, that's what he calls it. I like to call it... I'm-not-going-to-be-a-naive-dumbass-that-gets-cheated-on Espionage. Long name, but you get the point... maybe.

[WalkingOnEggs]

Ok so last night we go to a fancy garden party at this posh city-house in Paris. After the party, she was all over me. According to her I was incredibly sexy and that women were all checking me out (I noticed nothing of the sort).

 

So as we made out way back home she started getting a little nasty as though she was jealous and I was somehow responsible for what the thought these women were doing. Long story short, we didn't have sex that night. But the next morning, we had GREAT sex. She was 100% into it and completely on fire with passion. It was so great I alreadfy forgot how crappy the last year has been ..

 

Doubt this is a long-term change, but hey: I'm glad it happened.

[What_Next]

Small victory I guess.

[Reshawn122805]

I would talk to her and try to see if you could at least have sex a couple more times a week. I see that you have children sometimes when you have kids a women sex drive goes down. How often did you have it before you had kids? If talking to her doesn't work try seeing a mc and see if that might help.

[WalkingOnEggs]

I would talk to her and try to see if you could at least have sex a couple more times a week ..

 

 

That's an idea. Never thought of that.

Edited June 21, 2010 by WalkingOnEggs

[WalkingOnEggs]

So it's been 2 years since this thread and nothing got resolved. In fact, the **** hit the fan square on. We're back in the states now, but when I was in Europe, I started having to spend a week a month in Zurich.

 

I was already running up the walls with sexual frustration when I got there, and as luck would have it, the PA in charge of the local office there asked me out for drinks. This is on day one. She was a knockout. We went out, had a blast, but I didn't make any moves on her. We went out a few more times that week, but nothing happened.

 

When I went back home, I tried to be as nice and unpressuring as I could be. But she made an odd statement to me one night. It was something along the lines of: "I don't see why I need to do anything for anyone else. It's maybe just part of my personality, but if I don't want to do something, I don't see why I should". To me this sounded alot like "I don't see why I need to have sex with you if I don't feel like it". At first, my blood started to boil, but then I calmed right down, and thought that maybe she's right. She shouldn't have to do what she doesn't want to do. But then again neither should I.

 

When I went back to Zurich, I had sex with the PA the night I arrived, and every day after that morning and night. It was more than great. It was liberating. It felt like Nirvana. Life was fun again. After a great bout a sex with her I sat there and wondered what the f*ck is so hard about this that I can't have this with my own wife?

 

When I got back home, I was clearly acting different or something. My wife's womanly intuition kicked in and she asked me "Have you slept with someone else?" I told her I did. And not just once, but about 15 times in the last week. More times than we had sex all damn year.

 

She completely freaked out. I knew she wouldn't be happy, but this was a complete meltdown. She started crying and yelling at me and crying again. Outwardly, I wasn't moving a muscle, but inside I was shaking my head in disbelief. NOW she cares about sex? NOW it's important? Why does she give a rat's ass? She should be relieved.

 

Fast forward 3 months .. we had spent a few weeks having incredible sex probably from the hysterical bonding thing. But that crashed soon after and was subjected to all sorts of bouts of anger, which I took in the chin at first. I figured she needed to get her punches in before we could talk about other issues in the marriage.

 

We went to a local French marriage counselor who spoke English (she chose him). This didn't go too well I guess because the prevailing attitude there is that sex is of utmost importance in a marriage and the partner who is not getting any is most ceratinly bound to cheat and who can blame him/her? She went twice with me and that was it.

 

Things were rocky as hell for the next few months and then we were sent back to the states. Things calmed down a bit because of the distractions associated with moving back in the house, and getting the kids to school. But two months later, things started up again. During one frank discussion we were having, she admitted to me that at one point she wasn't sure she loved me anymore (translation: she absolutely didn't love me anymore). So of course I asked her why she didn't tell me. And her answer was that she didn't see any point. Then I asked her why that ws. her only answer was "I don't know". That probably was the last straw for me.

 

The next day, I told her I was moving out. I was tired of her bullcrap, and she can go ahead and find herself some other individual, maybe one with meager emotional and physical desires. I moved out on a Friday. Saturday she must have left be 125 messages on my phone. I spoke to her Sunday and she promised to change. She admitted to beingslefish and uncaring and tried desparately to convey that she was sorry. But frankly I liked not being around her. I waited a another week before I decided to give us another chance.

 

During the reconciliation time, she was great. She was affectionate, she did things for me, and I of course did things for her. I felt like we were in love again. Felt like a honeymoon for new lovers. It was awesome. But it lasted about 4 months.

 

Now here I am again Back to square one. She feels secure again. Looks to her like I'm here to stay. Except this time I get the occasional jab about my brief fling. I'm thinking tyhat some things just can't be fixed

[Robert Z]

Now here I am again Back to square one. She feels secure again.

 

An all too familiar pattern. As soon as she feels secure, to hell with your needs, right?

[BetheButterfly]

I'm extremely frustrated. And I mean very. I'm hitting last straw territory here since this morning.

 

The last time we had any "sex" is last Friday before we went off on a weekend trip. We had 20 minutes before having to get the cab to the train and she didn't want to mess up her hair so she gave me a handjob (I'm not complaining about that, she does those well).

 

But that was after a week of no sex and we had none on our weekend trip. Yesterday at work she called me and hinted at us having sex that night when I got home. But she seemed to have forgotten all about it. When I approached her, I got shot down.

 

This morning she looked absolutely stunning, which added hugely to my frustration. I know it's counter-productive to get angry, so I try not to. But right now, I can't seem to help it. I'm really pissed off. Steaming even.

 

:mad::mad:

 

Do you know the art of seduction? My hubby is an expert at it! Maybe it'd be good to learn how to seduce her. How do you approach her? For a woman with the man she loves, she enjoys being seduced and sometimes will say no to a frank and direct "Let's have sex!" while her body responds to being turned on through kissing that gets more and more passionate, and touch. Have you tried that?

[carhill]

OP, my sympathies....

 

TBH, few women I've met can understand how celibacy affects a man, especially forced celibacy within a sexless marriage.

 

You used the word 'steaming'. Yep. Even a man with modest testosterone levels will feel strong hormonal emotional responses from what LS'ers call 'incel' (involuntary celibacy). The best comparison I can give, having had a wife who would go into total bitch mode when PMS'ing, is for a woman to imagine feeling like that day in and day out for weeks/months on end. Men deal with it by suppressing their emotions but it's like a volcano bubbling underneath. Once in awhile the volcano leaks out. Sometimes it's Krakatoa. It all depends on the man.

 

I linked to this thread from the thread on the 'obligation' for a woman (or man, IMO) to have sex regularly with their spouse in a marriage and I hope you read that thread too, to see how women view this dynamic. It's really good information.

 

As our psychologist opined in the late stages of MC, you have a decision to make. Stay, go, cheat, open the M, go insane. I wish you well in your decision.

[Radu]

I'm deffinitely pro-marriage, and i usually rip on ppl who have affairs with little kids.

 

But a big part of me fully agrees with what carhill just posted and what you did to her.

I think she's just comfortable with you, and quite smug.

[standtall]

The situation set up in this thread is an example to all of the wives here that decide having sex with their husband anymore isn't worth the effort.

 

Walkingoneggs..I like the part when you said you liked not having her around anymore. Take that and run with it.

[giotto]

The situation set up in this thread is an example to all of the wives here that decide having sex with their husband anymore isn't worth the effort.

 

Walkingoneggs..I like the part when you said you liked not having her around anymore. Take that and run with it.

 

yes, but there's always a reason... I still don't know exactly what my wife's reason was, but I know what it put her off in a big way: my constant anger (never ever violence, just getting angry and saying hurtful things to her) about it, especially because she just wouldn't tell me what it was. Result? She was scared of me and she did it for me. It used to be twice a month. After she told me that, I swore to her that I would never ever get angry again about it. Result? Once a month, because now she knows she can get away with it without me complaining or being angry about it. Sleeping in my office most of the time. Apparently, all of a sudden our bed is really uncomfortable and I have back-ache...

[Blastoplast]

Do you know the art of seduction? My hubby is an expert at it! Maybe it'd be good to learn how to seduce her. How do you approach her? For a woman with the man she loves, she enjoys being seduced and sometimes will say no to a frank and direct "Let's have sex!" while her body responds to being turned on through kissing that gets more and more passionate, and touch. Have you tried that?

 

My SO broke up with me after a 7 year RL, she said the spark was gone, but mostly because of her financial strain she was putting on me. Our sex life SUCKED the past 8 months before we broke up. I'm talking, once -- maybe twice a month and sometimes it was a CHORE for HER. I ALWAYS made sure she got off, without forcing it. The sex isn't always good, but when it was it's like "Why don't we do this more often?" -- then back to no sex for a few weeks. It's like she just got lazy and didn't care anymore, and we were both in our mid 20s

 

Anyways, about the seduction. My girl didn't like seduction at all, or maybe I was trying the wrong moves. Sometimes I'd try come up behind her if she's messing around in the kitchen, lightly put my arms around her, caress her body, kiss her lightly on the neck and just give her a loving embrace. Not ONCE did she ever reciprocate and just go with it. I'm no Don Juan, but I've done this to other women in the past and it worked EVERY time. I've tried sensual massages, flirty games, text her sexy things I like about her and what I might like to do to her later that night. Nothing. I took her on a trip to Atlanta over New Years, we had some friends there for the week in our hotel, but they left and we had the last 2 days to ourselves. We ended up going to romantic restaurants, visiting all these cool spots in the city, having a great time. I thought we were really hitting it off and I thought for sure we were going to rip our clothes off that night. I remember getting to the hotel and suggesting to take a shower together and massage each other after that long week. Nothing. In some ways I really miss her a lot, but looking back on it, sexually it was very frustrating -- and I know she always said she was never that sexual of a person, but what I'm getting at is if you REALLY are in love with somebody you should be willing to compromise and come to an understanding of what works best for both of you.

 

Funny thing is, earlier this week I hooked up with a friend that I've flirted with a bit in the past, but it was always platonic (first hook-up post break-up). She's 12 years older than me, and at the bar I asked her "Why don't we just get naked and go for a swim." We had both gotten out of a LTR, so she agreed. It was the best sex I've ever had in my life, we loved each other for about 3 hours straight and probably would have kept going had I not had to at least get SOME sleep before I went to work.

[JamesM]

Interesting to see some responses from individuals who have no clue what it is to live with someone who has not interest in sex.

 

IF seduction was all that it took, then I think many of us would have our problems solved. If "being a man" (whatever that means) was all that it took, then I think we could all figure it out eventually.

 

Unfortunately, so many things complicate these simple solutions. It is not simply that one person can change and the marriage is happy again. As someone who has gone down many avenues with the hope that this one will be the "game changer," I can say that from experience.

 

OP, I feel your anger and pain and hope that you realize that this will be a roller coaster over and over. It sounds like your marriage is worse now than it was in the beginning of this thread. And if she becomes sexual and then backs off, then something IS going on here. While I don't think it means you need to seduce her or be a man, I wonder why she "doesn't love you."

 

I think that at this point, neither of you seem to care about the marriage. I understand why. My advice which is unusual for me, is to separate and see if the two of you can reconcile and become a couple again. If you both want to date and start your relationship anew, then go for it. If you both see that being apart makes you both happier, then so be it.

 

My 2c.

[M30USA]

What many of the guys in these kinds of topics seem to forget or are ignorant of is the fact that sex is a means to an end for many women, once she has you locked down there's no more need to give you what you want. Abolish alimony and reduce child support and you'd see a drastic increase in the amount of sex long term partners have.

 

Hmmm...

 

You're gonna get a lot of flack for saying that, but it's probably true. While there definitely are some women who have high sex drive and truly want sex frequently, many women have the mentality which sees it as a "special event" type thing which is only good when everything in life is flawlessly perfect, she happens to be in a good mood, and the man hasn't made a single mistake in days. These women may have sex out of duty all the other times but it's really on these "special days" that it really is enjoyable for them.

 

The other reason a woman might have sex, as you pointed out, is to keep their man. In the old days before all these pro-women laws which basically devastate a man in divorce, women had incentive to keep their man around. It kind of kept them on their toes. Now what motivation to they have to keep them around?

[JayJ]

You're not in a sexless marriage..far from it. Sexless means Sex-less...no sex at all. A real sexless marriage is when you haven't had sex in a year or more. For me it's been 25 years so whining about not having sex in a week is pretty lame.

[Marcy33309]

Hi...I'm new to LS (well I used to lurk here years ago) and just spent the last 20-30 minutes reading much of this thread.

 

Now that I'm done (thankfully) I have to say, I'm completely frustrated.

 

Why should a man have to jump through rings of fire or earn a degree in Psychology with a minor in Sex Therapy just to get laid by his wife?

 

Here's what I think: Many (not all) women are sexual vixens before marriage. They want it every which way and they'll do it anywhere the mood strikes.

 

Then they say "I Do" and all of a sudden they DON'T.

 

Okay, maybe not all of a sudden but soon after the kids arrive or the weight packs on... There's a myriad of excuses.

 

And even though their husbands are constantly having to "pleasure themselves" just to get through another sexless day, these women somehow feel it's the guy's duty to stay in the marriage.

 

Next thing you know, and with every justification as far as I'm concerned, you have husbands thinking about affairs or divorce.

 

I'm sorry but no man (unless he treats his wife like crap or purposely does something to destroy her desires for him) should have to live in a sexless marriage or walk on eggs or coals or buy expensive gifts just to get sex (and I mean GOOD SEX) from his wife. Sex should not be rationed. It shouldn't be given as a reward and it shouldn't have to be earned because it already was earned when two people promised to love honor and bang each other until death do them part. Again I'll say: as long as both parties are good and decent to each other.

 

If I were unable to satisfy my boyfriend for some medical reason, then I'd open our relationship up so he could have guilt-free sex with someone else. If I didn't want to satisfy his needs because he didn't mean enough to me or I wasn't attracted to him anymore, I'd let him go.

 

Anything else is unfair. It's torture and it goes against the mission statement of a happy, healthy marriage.

[giotto]

If I didn't want to satisfy his needs because he didn't mean enough to me or I wasn't attracted to him anymore, I'd let him go.

 

Anything else is unfair. It's torture and it goes against the mission statement of a happy, healthy marriage.

 

 

Yep, that's what my wife said to me. It's still rather depressing, especially if you love your wife, are very attracted to her and you don't particularly want to have sex with another woman!

[thatone]

this isn't complicated. all of you guys who think it is are missing one crucial truth...

 

your wife isn't different

 

i know you've all convinced yourselves that she's perfect and she's so much better than all of your ex girlfriends and ex wives and she doesn't suffer from the drama/insecurity/whatever that all of those exes did but that's all BS. she's still female.

 

just like a girl you've been with for a month goes on an insecurity meltdown when you don't respond to a text or two, a girl you've been married to for years goes into insecurity mode when some random thing happens, and she uses sex as a means of control.

 

so take the control away.

 

just as you would not appease the one month girlfriend who has a meltdown over a text message, nor should you appease your wife who refuses sex to rationalize her mental instability. she takes sex away? you take something away in return.

 

and when she tries to blame her loss of control on you for not letting you control her, calmly point out that if you can't make her happy, you can't make her unhappy either. "what's wrong with your brain?" gets a good response from my experience .

[maybealone]

And even though their husbands are constantly having to "pleasure themselves" just to get through another sexless day, these women somehow feel it's the guy's duty to stay in the marriage.

 

Next thing you know, and with every justification as far as I'm concerned, you have husbands thinking about affairs or divorce.

 

Speaking as a woman who recently left a sexless marriage, I want to point out that this issue is not just something men deal with. I know many women going through this same problem, but I think it isn't discussed because we are trained to think men ALWAYS want sex. So when a woman is in a sexless marriage, she feels it is her fault and is afraid to talk about it.

 

But I agree -- somehow these people that stop wanting sex (husbands and wives) think they deserve an intact marriage even though they broke the vows by not loving and cherishing their spouses.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What many of the guys in these kinds of topics seem to forget or are ignorant of is the fact that sex is a means to an end for many women, once she has you locked down there's no more need to give you what you want. Abolish alimony and reduce child support and you'd see a drastic increase in the amount of sex long term partners have.

 

That is not true. It would be a rare woman who would conduct herself this way consciously. I've never met one.

 

Even if we are talking about women who are conniving enough to use sex to get money from men, and of course there are women like that, she knows very well that she will need to keep him happy in order to keep getting the material rewards.

 

I just think that women tend to lose interest in sex more frequently than men do.

 

It happens a lot in lesbian relationships where both parties lose interest; hence the occurrence of "lesbian bed death." Yes, it's a thing. And alimony, child support, etc. are not at play when it happens.

[Marcy33309]

Speaking as a woman who recently left a sexless marriage, I want to point out that this issue is not just something men deal with. I know many women going through this same problem, but I think it isn't discussed because we are trained to think men ALWAYS want sex. So when a woman is in a sexless marriage, she feels it is her fault and is afraid to talk about it.

 

But I agree -- somehow these people that stop wanting sex (husbands and wives) think they deserve an intact marriage even though they broke the vows by not loving and cherishing their spouses.

 

I agree...it's not just men. But in this thread I was addressing the male side of the coin. There are many woman who are also expected to suffer through sexless marriages.

 

Regardless of gender - sex is an important aspect of marriage.

 

I feel for spouses in sexless marriages. Or for men or women who have to jump through hoops just to get a little intimacy.

It's not fair.

Resolve it if possible (usually once the sex is gone...the sex is gone) or get his or her blessings to get it elsewhere so you don't have to cheat...or leave the relationship.

 

That's my advice. Take it for what it's worth.

[Greznog]

That is not true. It would be a rare woman who would conduct herself this way consciously. I've never met one.

 

I didn't say consciously, it's instinct for many women.

 

Even if we are talking about women who are conniving enough to use sex to get money from men, and of course there are women like that, she knows very well that she will need to keep him happy in order to keep getting the material rewards.

 

Nonsense, that was true 60 years ago. These days you take a little trip to the court, maybe lie a little and the government will forcibly funnel his assets to her bank account.

 

I just think that women tend to lose interest in sex more frequently than men do.

 

It happens a lot in lesbian relationships where both parties lose interest; hence the occurrence of "lesbian bed death." Yes, it's a thing. And alimony, child support, etc. are not at play when it happens.

 

Because sex is a means to an end, once you've achieved your goal there's no more need to perform.

 

If my employer had to keep paying me even if I never showed up for work I'd stop showing up.