Chronological Catch 22

[whichwayisup]

I am not afraid that my MM will choose his wife over me. I would respect such a choice. But I can not see that he is able to choose yet. The only way I can see him becoming ready to choose is by going to therapy.

 

I fully expect him to come back to me after a Dday once things have settled down at home. And I fully expect him to respect my wish if I went NC.

 

He just isn't ready to choose yet, and there is nothing I can do to hasten that process.Nothing his wife can do either probably. Come Dday, he will be back with both of us.

 

It is hard to speak for him,

 

Then don't try to speak on behalf of his wife. You have no idea how she'll react, let alone decide what SHE wants to do.

 

As I said earlier, he won't go to therapy because he doesn't want things to change. He likes things exactly as they are.

[Spark1111]

It is hard to speak for him, but I know it is very important for him not to break up the family. He feels he is selfish enough having an affair, he does not want to add to it by breaking up the family through a divorce.

 

I think he is protecting himself as well. He wants to be able to put his boys to bed at night, to have them come in in the morning and kiss him, he wants to be able to talk to his older children and support them, in short he wants to be a father and care for them all. As many other men, he is afraid to lose contact with his children if he would get divorced.

 

Okay, so I won't pass judgement on someone I do not know....but the actions you attribute to him, for whatever reasons he states, seems like pure conflict avoidance.

 

His family is fine to find out about you, at his funeral after HE is gone.

 

I can't think of a more devastating time to discover the existence of a long-term lover, but that's just me.

 

You always speak of him and your situation in such a calm manner; calm conversations, calm meetings.

 

Yet five years IS a very long time.

 

Ever have a rip-roaring argument? You and he?

[jennie-jennie]

Then don't try to speak on behalf of his wife. You have no idea how she'll react, let alone decide what SHE wants to do.

 

As I said earlier, he won't go to therapy because he doesn't want things to change. He likes things exactly as they are.

 

Huh? Where did I speak for his wife? "Come Dday, he will be back with both of us.""? Just my guess, I don't know of course, what I do know is I stayed when I was the BS.

 

She has spoken herself actually. She has promised to kill him if he is unfaithful. Is that what we should be going by?

[jennie-jennie]

Okay, so I won't pass judgement on someone I do not know....but the actions you attribute to him, for whatever reasons he states, seems like pure conflict avoidance.

 

His family is fine to find out about you, at his funeral after HE is gone.

 

I can't think of a more devastating time to discover the existence of a long-term lover, but that's just me.

 

You always speak of him and your situation in such a calm manner; calm conversations, calm meetings.

 

Yet five years IS a very long time.

 

Ever have a rip-roaring argument? You and he?

 

Conflict avoidance might very well be a part of all this.

 

Spark, my exSO had anger management problems. There were many fights between us, even with physical violence involved. I was used to using anger myself after decades with him.

 

My MM likened it to a minefield to talk to me. I would explode suddenly without him even understanding why. Slowly I learnt to trust him. My anger has become less and less during these years with him. I have learnt to express myself in other ways as well. But at times I still get angry. He likens me to a tiger.

 

My MM is a very calm man. But when he gets angry, he gets this ever-so-slight tone in his voice which is more tearing and destructive to me than any of my exSO's anger outbreaks. I am used to rip-roaring arguments, to me that feels like two equals arguing, two people as vulnerable. When my MM uses that tone, I feel like he is scolding me for not behaving properly. It is very hard for me to deal with. He knows this, and seldom uses it any longer.

 

A man who is always calm only needs to raise his voice ever-so-slightly for it to have effect. A man who is always screaming nobody notices.

[jennie-jennie]

It is not like my MM would be the first MM to be found out after his death to have led a double-life. We all know these kind of MM exist.

[anne1707]

If he was to die, would you feel comfortable going to his funeral? Do you not feel that would be incredibly cruel on his wife and children?

 

Forget about what this (selfish) man wants. How do you feel about this?

[jennie-jennie]

If he was to die, would you feel comfortable going to his funeral? Do you not feel that would be incredibly cruel on his wife and children?

 

Forget about what this (selfish) man wants. How do you feel about this?

 

I am fine with it. I have as much right to go there as does his wife. He is as important to me as to her.

 

I have the same opinion of being at his funeral as I have of being in his life. That shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

[awkward]

It is not like my MM would be the first MM to be found out after his death to have led a double-life. We all know these kind of MM exist.

 

Will you be participating in hurting his children and wife? Will you attend his funeral?

[anne1707]

I never had you down as heartless before - do you really have no feelings of concern for even his children?

[awkward]

I am fine with it. I have as much right to go there as does his wife. He is as important to me as to her.

 

I have the same opinion of being at his funeral as I have of being in his life. That shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

 

Actually, it does surprise me. I didn't view you as this way. Cruel IMO. Good luck.

 

In his life you are "hidden".

[jwi71]

 

I have to agree with Silk. He won't fight for his M OR his A, but he wants both of them because he is too afraid to make any decisions on his own. Kind of makes the question in the OP moot. He's not in any catch-22 if he's not going to do anything, just like he's already done.

 

The better question in my mind is WHY should he fight?

I am not seeing any schism here at all in his behavior.

He wants the W and kids. Got it. No need to "fight" for that.

He wants a lover. Got it. No need to fight for that either.

 

He doesn't act because he doesn't have to. His family is oblivious and JJ is so invested in split self that he doesn't have to do anything with his mistress's provided excuse for EVERYTHING he does and doesn't do.

 

She won't act or tell - he's in the catbird seat. I almost envy him with all the nothing he has to do to maintain this.

 

Either way, I don't think he's evil, just weak and unable to make a firm decision because he's too concerned about what he would lose, not what he would gain.

 

What decision? People keep talking about this decision "he" must make.

I don't see it. I see what I said above...selfish man wanting the best of both worlds. Now that he has it, he sure is hell isn't going to do ANYTHING to jeopardize it.

 

He has nothing to decide.

He just has to maintain.

 

And that's exactly what he will do.

[jwi71]

At his office there is a book in which it states that I should have it in case of his death. In this book there is proof of our relationship and his love for me, along with many other things laying around at the office. It is not like his wife would not find out the truth if he died.

 

Does this "book" supersede his will?

Is this book the will?

 

What you have here is a book and a legal binding contract. Do you think your book will stand up against his official will? Willing to go to court over it as I can bet the widow and children will.

 

Forget privacy then, the family will spill your name to the press and you won't believe the headlines. I know you say that A's are common...but is it common for the long term mistress to file a claim against the estate of the MM?

 

To demand assets that should go to the W and children?

 

Oh man, I'm not sure that is a good move.

 

The word vilify comes to mind.

[Woman In Blue]

I still don't understand why is your MM still M and wasting ones life????!!! At least out of respect he can set his W free so she can find her own happiness and he can move on with you.

Not meaning any disrespect to his wife, but I highly doubt guys are going to lining up at the door to date a divorcee with a litter of 6 children. Not appealing.

 

I agree with Mimo however, in that MM should sh*t or get off the pot. He's making a complete mockery of this woman's life, marriage, and family.

 

He's definitely making sure HIS needs are being met. Of that, we can be sure.

[seren]

I am fine with it. I have as much right to go there as does his wife. He is as important to me as to her.

 

I have the same opinion of being at his funeral as I have of being in his life. That shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

 

Jennie, while I have not always agreed with the things you say, I have respected the fact that you are so in love with this man that you are prepared to wait for him to make a decision regarding if/when he is with you full time. Frankly, I think that women deserve better, OW or not. I am simply stunned that anyone can think that it is OK to remain silent while the MM is alive, to enable him to live a double life, remain married, yet see another and not see the sheer cruelty it would cause if the A became public after death.

 

You have said he doesn't want to hurt his wife or family, yet he can say it would be OK for them to hurt if he were no longer around to deal with the flack. The years of her supporting him, bringing up their family together, sharing dreams, love and having no chance to ask him why it all went wrong, why he felt the need to see someone else. He also would be happy for you to deal with all that and you can not see that this is wrong? Unbelievable.

 

This man sounds like a conflict avoider of the absolute 'nth degree, with no thought about how incredibly selfish this would be, how all the years that they were happy, made plans, had a family etc etc reduced to ashes, simply because he didn't have the balls to be honest while she had the chance to ask why. If it is so important to shout it our to the world that you and he are a couple, then why not do it proudly and loudly, deal with the consequences and live happy ever after.

This is a huge trigger for me, a friend found out about her H's A after the OW turned up at the funeral, she committed suicide after 3 long years questioning her life of 23 years, her grown up kids were left wondering who the hell their father was. So not the action of a good man.

[jwi71]

I fully expect him to come back to me after a Dday once things have settled down at home. And I fully expect him to respect my wish if I went NC.

 

This makes zero sense JJ.

After DDay YOU expect him to come to you.

If you demand NC YOU expect he will acquiesce.

 

Basically you are saying he has no real feelings for you.

 

In the dday expectation, he is expected to choose you (out of love). That love, despite the hell of dday will see him to you.

 

But.

 

In the NC expectation he is expected to suddenly shut off his love for you at YOUR desire, go away and never return.

 

I'm not following this. The only reason those can be true, to me, is if he has no real feelings for you.

 

Or that you vastly overestimate your affect upon him.

 

Can you explain how bot expectations can be true?

[jennie-jennie]

Will you be participating in hurting his children and wife? Will you attend his funeral?

 

I most likely would attend his funeral. It would be between him and me, just like our relationship has been. His wife and children have their relationship to him, and I have mine.

[jennie-jennie]

I never had you down as heartless before - do you really have no feelings of concern for even his children?

 

Of course I do. But he is my SO. I have a right to attend his funeral as being among those closest grieving. Are you saying they would be so heartless as to deny me that right?

[anne1707]

Of course I do. But he is my SO. I have a right to attend his funeral as being among those closest grieving. Are you saying they would be so heartless as to deny me that right?

 

I also did not have you down as being naiive. Do you honestly expect his children to welcome you?

[Silly_Girl]

If he wasn't ashamed of his relationship with you his wife would know now that you exist. His 'public' self includes her and their children and not you, so to my mind you have no place being there at all, in those particular circumstances. He's made his choice and you aren't in his wider life so you should stay hidden. If things change and he comes clean, then maybe things would be different.

 

And that doesn't even touch on how devastating it would be for his wife and children. Can't begin to imagine that.

[jennie-jennie]

Does this "book" supersede his will?

Is this book the will?

 

What you have here is a book and a legal binding contract. Do you think your book will stand up against his official will? Willing to go to court over it as I can bet the widow and children will.

 

Forget privacy then, the family will spill your name to the press and you won't believe the headlines. I know you say that A's are common...but is it common for the long term mistress to file a claim against the estate of the MM?

 

To demand assets that should go to the W and children?

 

Oh man, I'm not sure that is a good move.

 

The word vilify comes to mind.

 

What are you talking about?

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, while I have not always agreed with the things you say, I have respected the fact that you are so in love with this man that you are prepared to wait for him to make a decision regarding if/when he is with you full time. Frankly, I think that women deserve better, OW or not. I am simply stunned that anyone can think that it is OK to remain silent while the MM is alive, to enable him to live a double life, remain married, yet see another and not see the sheer cruelty it would cause if the A became public after death.

 

You have said he doesn't want to hurt his wife or family, yet he can say it would be OK for them to hurt if he were no longer around to deal with the flack. The years of her supporting him, bringing up their family together, sharing dreams, love and having no chance to ask him why it all went wrong, why he felt the need to see someone else. He also would be happy for you to deal with all that and you can not see that this is wrong? Unbelievable.

 

This man sounds like a conflict avoider of the absolute 'nth degree, with no thought about how incredibly selfish this would be, how all the years that they were happy, made plans, had a family etc etc reduced to ashes, simply because he didn't have the balls to be honest while she had the chance to ask why. If it is so important to shout it our to the world that you and he are a couple, then why not do it proudly and loudly, deal with the consequences and live happy ever after.

This is a huge trigger for me, a friend found out about her H's A after the OW turned up at the funeral, she committed suicide after 3 long years questioning her life of 23 years, her grown up kids were left wondering who the hell their father was. So not the action of a good man.

 

I would be going to the funeral to take farewell of a loved one, not to shout anything out. If it wasn't for the stuff at the office, nobody would even know that I was anything more than a friend. Or did you expect me to introduce me as MM's lover?

 

Hopefully there will be much water under the bridges until then and this scenario won't even be taking place.

 

Sorry about your friend.

[Woman In Blue]

We have discussed what happens in case my MM dies. He has said that he expects me to come to his funeral. He doesn't mind if the truth comes out then. He says he is who he is and if not before his wife and children need to accept that when he is dead.

OMG. This guy is a complete and total wimp.

 

How can you respect someone whose so ball-less? Does his wife have his nuts in a mason jar in the pantry? He lies to his wife and children's faces every single day because he doesn't have the balls to be honest and let them know what he's really been up to - but he's suddenly all full of courage and righteous indignation after he's DEAD, claiming his family "needs to accept" what a lying cheater he was? But he's got to be DEAD first in order for the truth to finally come out? What a despicable excuse for a man.

[jennie-jennie]

This makes zero sense JJ.

After DDay YOU expect him to come to you.

If you demand NC YOU expect he will acquiesce.

 

Basically you are saying he has no real feelings for you.

 

In the dday expectation, he is expected to choose you (out of love). That love, despite the hell of dday will see him to you.

 

But.

 

In the NC expectation he is expected to suddenly shut off his love for you at YOUR desire, go away and never return.

 

I'm not following this. The only reason those can be true, to me, is if he has no real feelings for you.

 

Or that you vastly overestimate your affect upon him.

 

Can you explain how bot expectations can be true?

 

He wants both his marriage and me as it is now. He is not ready to end his marriage. He is not ready to give up the extramarital relationship.

 

A Dday would not change that, he would still want both me and his marriage.

 

The only reason I would go NC would be because I was done with him. Do you expect him to come begging after me, when I have made clear we are over?

 

You might be thinking what if Jennie went NC and was prepared to take him back if he left his wife. Is this what you are wondering? First of all I would not go NC if I wasn't done with him, because I know I am not able to keep NC. But let's just say I was. I still don't expect him to be magically ready to end his marriage just because of that. He would still want both. And being that I would be denying him the extramarital relationship, he would respect my wish to no longer have a relationship with him. I would have made the decision for him, just like his wife would if she kicked him out.

 

Remember Devil Inside? This is exactly what his OW did to him. And he truly loved her. But when she went NC, he stayed with his family, struggling with loving his wife. He wasn't ready to end his marriage, and didn't become so just because his OW went NC.

Edited June 12, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jwi71]

What are you talking about?

 

Oops. I misread the post I quoted.

I thought you were saying there is a book saying what you get from his estate.

[jennie-jennie]

Oops. I misread the post I quoted.

I thought you were saying there is a book saying what you get from his estate.

 

LOL I was wondering what your post was about.