Is my strict hostility getting in the way of my honesty?

[DarkMagus15]

Hi, I have a problem with being honest to strangers -- including girls I meet at school. Often, at times, I feel that my "cold-hearted" honesty (though I actually am a pretty nice and friendly guy when I chat with people) is turning off potential girlfriends. I know that it's not good to lie. However; I don't intend on hurting their feelings.

 

For example, I saw this really attractive girl come into the student hub and was hanging out with my friends and I. We were talking about religion, and she decided to join in by stating her Christian faith (though claimed she "doesn't follow" religion at the same time), and I kindly responded to her, saying things like "You may believe, but how can you worship an evil, nasty god that obviously created evil YET wants us to stop doing 'evil'?" to get her thinking, and then she comes with a typical half-assed liberal response, "Oh, Hell will just be a metaphorical place where everyone is separate from God, blablablablablabla." -- and that's where things get uglier. Though I usually stop by there and let them believe what they want to believe.

 

I don't know... I don't mean to hurt their feelings at all, but I don't feel good lying to myself. Am I doing the right thing by being honest, no matter what strangers think of me? Please help -- I honestly don't know how to react to people when they present something that I object.

[Shakz]

There is a big difference between being honest and being rude. An honest person would say something like, "How have you overcome the dichotomy of the existence of evil versus a loving god?" This encourages discourse and you might actually learn something about human nature. A rude person would say what you said. This encourages not argument, but animosity.

[TaraMaiden]

Hi, I have a problem with being honest to strangers -- including girls I meet at school. Often, at times, I feel that my "cold-hearted" honesty (though I actually am a pretty nice and friendly guy when I chat with people) is turning off potential girlfriends. ....

 

We were talking about religion, and she decided to join in by stating her Christian faith (though claimed she "doesn't follow" religion at the same time), and I kindly responded to her, saying things like "You may believe, but how can you worship an evil, nasty god that obviously created evil YET wants us to stop doing 'evil'?" to get her thinking, and then she comes with a typical half-assed liberal response, "Oh, Hell will just be a metaphorical place where everyone is separate from God, blablablablablabla." -- and that's where things get uglier. Though I usually stop by there and let them believe what they want to believe.

That's big of you...

Tell me, how is telling somebody who's talking about her religious faith that her god is "evil, nasty god that obviously created evil" - kind, exactly?

 

I think you need to reconsider your input. What you are trying to put over as 'kind' is actually rude and patronising. And not Kind or truthful at all. It's your opinion. It doesn't always make it true.

 

I don't know... I don't mean to hurt their feelings at all,

What you mean, and what happens, don't always coincide though, do they? What is your objective, exactly, in contradicting them and wanting to put them in their place? Why rise to the argument and say things that actually (I'm sure you know, really) are going to stimulate debate and provoke an argument?

but I don't feel good lying to myself

.

Lying to yourself is not good. Thinking that you have to open your mouth to "be honest" is, however, a fallacy.

Am I doing the right thing by being honest, no matter what strangers think of me?

Like I said, lying is not good. Honesty is good. But how you apply that honesty and project yourself is as important - if not more so - than being honest. It's perfectly possible to be honest, without metaphorically or verbally poking people in the chest.

 

Please help -- I honestly don't know how to react to people when they present something that I object.

 

Either keep out of the conversation, or simply say "I'm very glad you've found something that works for you."

 

That's all you need to say. You don't need to draw discursive pistols or contradict them. let them be.

Who do you think you are to be of the opinion that it's your job to prove everyone else wrong, or goad them into being defensive, simply because your opinions differ?

[Teflon]

There are levels to this. First yeah, if you want to make friends and contacts, you gotta learn to let some of the stuff slide. It is near-impossible to find people that you agree with all of the time, so you gotta learn to ignore differences, as long as they aren't that important differences.

 

And don't start looking for a fight. From the list of adjectives you used, you clearly WANTED to hurt that person. It was her opinion, not yours, what did she ever do to you? I might share your sentiment that people who start preaching are stupid and deserve to be attacked but there is a time and place for that, and that clearly wasn't that.

 

Learn to choose when to fight and how to fight, if you want to carry on being brutally honest. That will cause two things in the future though - first, people will start not including you in discussions about topics they think you will flip out. Secondly, you will find more people like yourself, it is inevitable and those people will seem like the perfect crowd to hang out with. But there is a risk in this because what would you do when someone would attack your opinions so horribly? That is what you risk with hanging out with people who have strict sense of honesty.

 

My advice to you is to be strict, to be honest but learn control.

[Disillusioned]

Pretty lie versus ugly truth... simple as that.

 

Me, I suck at lying.

[Ronni_W]

DarkMagus,

Given the way you currently express yourself, wisest to not discuss politics or religion...especially not with potential dates; and also not on the date or during the relationship.

 

For the longer-term, note how Shakz expressed the same opinion -- you can also learn how to express yourself authentically and honestly without coming across as rude, offensive, arrogant, etc.

Assertive, kind, open, direct and honest communication of course includes not only choice of words but tone, body language and facial expression; but you could start with the words and add to your skill set, from there.

 

Best of luck.

[sally4sara]

Hi, I have a problem with being honest to strangers -- including girls I meet at school. Often, at times, I feel that my "cold-hearted" honesty (though I actually am a pretty nice and friendly guy when I chat with people) is turning off potential girlfriends. I know that it's not good to lie. However; I don't intend on hurting their feelings.

 

For example, I saw this really attractive girl come into the student hub and was hanging out with my friends and I. We were talking about religion, and she decided to join in by stating her Christian faith (though claimed she "doesn't follow" religion at the same time), and I kindly responded to her, saying things like "You may believe, but how can you worship an evil, nasty god that obviously created evil YET wants us to stop doing 'evil'?" to get her thinking, and then she comes with a typical half-assed liberal response, "Oh, Hell will just be a metaphorical place where everyone is separate from God, blablablablablabla." -- and that's where things get uglier. Though I usually stop by there and let them believe what they want to believe.

 

I don't know... I don't mean to hurt their feelings at all, but I don't feel good lying to myself. Am I doing the right thing by being honest, no matter what strangers think of me? Please help -- I honestly don't know how to react to people when they present something that I object.

 

This isn't honesty for the sake of integrity. It is thinking your views are proven fact, calling it honesty, and using it to wound.

 

And its a sneaky, flanking maneuver. You start off misleading the person into thinking you want to hold conversation with them because you find them interesting. Then you use the bit of them they decided to share with you and use it to make them regret giving you their time. Nothing honest about that at all. Honesty would be telling them outright that if they say anything you don't agree with, you will use it to attack their character.

[ADF]

When people say things like, "I'm brutally honest," or "I have a sarcastic sense of humor," what they often really mean is, "I am rude, cruel and have poor social skills." I know--I've had this problem myself.

[Eve]

In some ways the approach you outline is useful because at least people will know to stay away from you in the future.

 

Overall the chances probably are that change wont come about until you get back what you dish out. Simple as that really.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[TaraMaiden]

(Like.... in this here thread, for instance....?)

[Eve]

(Like.... in this here thread, for instance....?)

 

 

I have learned the hard way to believe what people tell me about themselves. If something is deemed important people will try and change but if the 'pay off' is more when they remain in the said behaviour, they will continue with it.

 

Simple as that.

 

Mostly I am kind but really I dont bother with those who have no self discipline. Waste of time...

 

Losing someone close may be the only catalyst for the OP to think outside of himself because really if he is like this with strangers it is unlikely that he is tactful in general.

 

So be it.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[deux ex machina]

Hi, I have a problem with being honest to strangers -- including girls I meet at school. Often, at times, I feel that my "cold-hearted" honesty (though I actually am a pretty nice and friendly guy when I chat with people) is turning off potential girlfriends. I know that it's not good to lie. However; I don't intend on hurting their feelings.

 

For example, I saw this really attractive girl come into the student hub and was hanging out with my friends and I. We were talking about religion, and she decided to join in by stating her Christian faith (though claimed she "doesn't follow" religion at the same time), and I kindly responded to her, saying things like "You may believe, but how can you worship an evil, nasty god that obviously created evil YET wants us to stop doing 'evil'?" to get her thinking, and then she comes with a typical half-assed liberal response, "Oh, Hell will just be a metaphorical place where everyone is separate from God, blablablablablabla." -- and that's where things get uglier. Though I usually stop by there and let them believe what they want to believe.

 

Read the bold, and use your imagination.

 

Put yourself in the other person's shoes for just a moment.

 

How does it make it make you feel?

 

What do you think of a person that would treat you, and others, that way?

 

I don't know... I don't mean to hurt their feelings at all, but I don't feel good lying to myself. Am I doing the right thing by being honest, no matter what strangers think of me? Please help -- I honestly don't know how to react to people when they present something that I object.

 

Understand how controlling and critical you are being.

 

Really come to know that your actions and words do have an impact on others. Learn to be emotionally intelligent.

 

Respect another person's path may be altogether different from yours, but it doesn't automatically follow that it is wrong. They may just be at a different stage in life than you are, and that's okay. Let go.

 

Take a hard look at yourself: do you have an interest, lurking somewhere in your heart and mind, in making other people "not okay" so you can then feel "better than"?

 

Introspection is a tough gig sometimes, but well worth it.

 

Good luck to you, DarkMagus.

Edited June 16, 2010 by deux ex machina

[WTRanger]

then she comes with a typical half-assed liberal response, "Oh, Hell will just be a metaphorical place where everyone is separate from God, blablablablablabla." -- and that's where things get uglier. Though I usually stop by there and let them believe what they want to believe.

 

Well aren't you the perfect gentleman to let those God-loving, Bible thumping, backwoods, misinformed peons think that they are right about the Great God debate. Seriously, pull your head out your own ass. There is no right or wrong answer, there never will be. So just shut up and let people voice their own opinion. You seem to care what others think of you, yet you lack any sort of caring for what someone thinks. You aren't being honest, you are being a dick.

 

Which is why you never talk about religion or politics with a person you are interested in. Not even after marriage, not even after kids, and not even after your 75th wedding anniversary. At best when someone offers something that conflicts with you, you can say nothing. Imagine that! Keeping your opinion to yourself to complete strangers. The shock! The horror! Oh the humanity! You don't get the last word in? Oh how will you sleep at night!

 

Or you can even do what most guys do and mildly agree with her, or just stand there and mentally undress her. She's a girl, you want in her pants, you don't get there by disagreeing with her no matter how wrong you perceive her to be.

 

First thread you couldn't ask a girl out, now you piss one off in 2 sentences or less. If you have no problem voicing your opinion to a girl yet you are terrified of asking one out, that's a serious disconnect. You've got to find some middle ground buddy. You don't want people in your school thinking you are a social retard.

[Taramere]

For example, I saw this really attractive girl come into the student hub and was hanging out with my friends and I. We were talking about religion, and she decided to join in by stating her Christian faith (though claimed she "doesn't follow" religion at the same time), and I kindly responded to her, saying things like "You may believe, but how can you worship an evil, nasty god that obviously created evil YET wants us to stop doing 'evil'?" to get her thinking, and then she comes with a typical half-assed liberal response, "Oh, Hell will just be a metaphorical place where everyone is separate from God, blablablablablabla." -- and that's where things get uglier. Though I usually stop by there and let them believe what they want to believe.

 

 

When you wander towards a group of people, do they all whisper excitedly "here comes the Dark Magus. He's a kind hearted type really - but always bluntly honest....and sometimes it results in a fight. Life's never dull when Dark Magus comes on the scene."

 

Or do they say "Oh no. Dark Magus is heading our way. He's a kind hearted type really, but can sometimes be an annoying douche. Likes to pick fights over trivialities. It can be hard to hold a conversation around him, because he's forever picking fault with things people say and making mountains out of molehills."

 

I don't know... I don't mean to hurt their feelings at all, but I don't feel good lying to myself. Am I doing the right thing by being honest, no matter what strangers think of me? Please help -- I honestly don't know how to react to people when they present something that I object.

 

Why would you object to someone having a faith but not following a religion? It seems like a perfectly harmless pastime.