Is an extramarital relationship a real relationship?

[jennie-jennie]

"An intimate relationship is a particularly close interpersonal relationship. It can be defined by these characteristics: enduring behavioral interdependence, repeated interactions, emotional attachment, and need fulfillment." (Wikipedia)

 

According to the above an extramarital relationship is not only a relationship but an intimate relationship. It fulfills the requirements of:

 

- being a particularly close interpersonal relationship

- enduring behavioral interdependence

- repeated interactions

- emotional attachment

- need fulfillment

 

I have come to understand that many LS posters do not consider an extramarital relationship to qualify as a "real" relationship. This topic deserves its own thread in my opinion.

[stoploss11]

Does it only imply if both sides have those attachments and feelings together?

[TaraMaiden]

Of course it's a real relationship.

I think the bone of contention arises when people consider whether it's a RIGHT relationship.

[jennie-jennie]

Does it only imply if both sides have those attachments and feelings together?

 

I would think so. I can't picture a relationship being one-sided, especially not an intimate relationship. There would be no intimacy.

[Silly_Girl]

This question frustrated me in another thread and absolutely it's a real relationship that exists. My point was that if an extra-marital relationship is not a real, tangible one why do so many BS's give a damn when they find out their spouse has been cheating?

[jj33]

Of course it is a relationship. I can look back on certain relationships I have had and in retrospect have decided that they were not "real relationships" because they were shallow in various ways.

They were nonetheless relationships.

 

It is impossible for anyone who was not IN a particular relatoinship to judge it with any real accuracy. Noone but the spouses knows what goes on in a marriage and likewise noone knows what goes on in an A.

 

Sometimes (in all sorts of relationships marriages and As alike) neither of hte participants are 100% aware of why they bond the way they do, why certain issues are triggered etc etc. Human behavior is complicated.

 

However for someone to say an A is not a relationship is self serving. Some As are not good or healthy relationships but then not all marriages are healthy or involve good relatoinships.

 

Its all relative and noone can judge someone elses situation other than to point out the objective flaws (and there are many posted on this forum) or speak from their own experience and say they wouldnt want that for themselves or anyone they loved.

 

Everyone makes different decisions at different points in their lives about what is right for them. People accept all sorts of negative behaviors in marriages. Does that mean it is not a real relatoinship.

 

The fact is that marriage is sanctioned as "the way". I know many people who marry for status, the H works and travels most of the time, the W stays home (often not in her home country so Ws are separated from their friends and family) H comes home for about 1 week per month and is arrogant and self absorbed and very possibly cheating (randomly) while he is travelling. The W is a trophy wife. W has a lavish lifestyle by anyone's standards. Is that a better way to go? For some that is accepted and people would say she did well. Personally, Id rather be in a workable A with someone who really loved me than in that position. The idea of being financially tethered to someone who I didnt share real intimacy with is my idea of h*ll.

 

Of course its possible to have a great marriage but life doesnt always present you with the package you are expecting. Everyone has to judge what is right for them. But those who are wondering why their spouse cheated will often to protect themselves and their view of their marriage sometimes feel the need to bash the meaning or valitity of the A and are happy to believe whatever lines are fed to them by their repentitent spouses.

 

Lets face it confused or not, its rare that somoene risks a marriage for someone that they have no feelings for. Yes there are those who have one night stands for years, those who are totally lacking in empathy or an ability to connect (good luck to THEIR wives) but that is not most people.

Edited June 13, 2010 by jj33

[Fallen Angel]

YES. (Ten characters required.)

[jthorne]

Sure, it's a relationship. As I said in the other thread, I have a "relationship" with this keyboard I'm typing on.

I believe I also explained in the other thread what I meant by "real" relationship, and why I don't feel an A is one. Perhaps comperable might have been a better word.

An affair is predominately a HIDDEN dating relationship, except a single gal is typically included in many things an OW is not, such as family gatherings and business functions. A single gal can be at her sweetheart's bedside if he's in the hospital, an OW may never even know he was IN the hospital. A single gal doesn't have to hide anything. An OW has to hide everything.

 

That's no "real" relationship to me.

[Citizen Erased]

It's a type of relationship. I have relationships with my friends, my family and of course my boyfriend. I guess it's up to the person to determine which they consider to be "real". IMO, it's not on the same level as a marriage, they're both very different...but well what kind of marriage is it anyway if one of them is out having an intimate relationship with someone else.

[Spark1111]

Are the feelings of interdependence and having one's needs met existing in an affair?

 

I would say yes.

 

Are you an open and integral part of someone's life, seeing them interact with all of their friends, family, children and co-workers?

 

I would say no.

 

Are they exclusive with you?

 

I would say no if they have a spouse, or a SO.

 

So, define real: Real feelings, but not feelings than can be openly demonstrated in the reality of one or both partner's lives.

 

Tough question.

[whichwayisup]

Sure, it's a relationship. As I said in the other thread, I have a "relationship" with this keyboard I'm typing on.

I believe I also explained in the other thread what I meant by "real" relationship, and why I don't feel an A is one. Perhaps comperable might have been a better word.

An affair is predominately a HIDDEN dating relationship, except a single gal is typically included in many things an OW is not, such as family gatherings and business functions. A single gal can be at her sweetheart's bedside if he's in the hospital, an OW may never even know he was IN the hospital. A single gal doesn't have to hide anything. An OW has to hide everything.

 

That's no "real" relationship to me.

 

This^^ but also the affair aka relationship foundation is all based on a lie. On the expense of the BS.

[ADF]

When people ask if extramarital relationships are "real," they are not asking if they qualify as relationships according to the dictionary defintion. Of course they do. They are asking if they are "real" in the sense of them ultimately leading somewhere. In that sense, the vast majority of extramartial affairs aren't "real."

 

I work in a family law office. I can tell you with some confidence that 9 times out of 10, the MM or MW in an extramartial affair ends up dumping their affair partner and returning to their spouse. Not necessarily because they care more for for their spouse, but because staying married is just easier.

 

Getting a divorce is a long, brutal process that leave people bitter and exhausted, and often ruins them financially. Dumping an affair partner is much easier, so that is what the vast majority of married people in extramartial affairs do. In that sense, most extramartial affairs are not "real." They end up being limited, temporary interactions that leads nowhere.

[oxfordsocks]

I have stumbled a few times when talking to people about my MM--what is he?? My boyfriend, my affairy. my lover,my longdistance lover friend, my "significant other". What do i call him? It bothers me that there is no proper word for it and therefore I always felt that it therefore wasn't anything.

 

If there is no name for it is it there fore out of bounds of an actual relationship. There is no doubt it is a relationship--contact daily-etccc. but to not be able to call him anything is tough. I want to call him by an actual title. (and i can just here the responses--LOL--yes ladies and gentleman I know what you want to call him).

[ADF]

I have stumbled a few times when talking to people about my MM--what is he?? My boyfriend, my affairy. my lover,my longdistance lover friend, my "significant other". What do i call him? It bothers me that there is no proper word for it and therefore I always felt that it therefore wasn't anything.

 

If there is no name for it is it there fore out of bounds of an actual relationship. There is no doubt it is a relationship--contact daily-etccc. but to not be able to call him anything is tough. I want to call him by an actual title. (and i can just here the responses--LOL--yes ladies and gentleman I know what you want to call him).

 

There is a name for it--he's your paramour. It means an illicit lover.

[MizFit]

I have stumbled a few times when talking to people about my MM--what is he?? My boyfriend, my affairy. my lover,my longdistance lover friend, my "significant other". What do i call him? It bothers me that there is no proper word for it and therefore I always felt that it therefore wasn't anything.

 

If there is no name for it is it there fore out of bounds of an actual relationship. There is no doubt it is a relationship--contact daily-etccc. but to not be able to call him anything is tough. I want to call him by an actual title. (and i can just here the responses--LOL--yes ladies and gentleman I know what you want to call him).

 

20 years ago a 'partner' was typically one part of a homosexual relationship...before that a partner was someone you conducted business alongside.

 

20 years ago I never, ever heard anyone called a significant other.

 

20 years ago 'lover' had a hint of scandal and secrecy about it.

 

By being able to call it something it doesn't define it. Titles and names change as quickly and easily as the winds of political correctness sweep through the land.

 

Is the R in an A...

 

exclusive...no, but if there's an A then neither is the M (I understand the BS is not privvy, but the WS is taking that choice away from them)

 

sharing with friends and family...not always, but having said that I've had 2 relatively lengthy relationships where f and f were never introduced. Sometimes it was because it just never happened and sometimes it was distance...sometimes it was just because I didn't want someone that I knew wouldn't be 'everything' to me to be part of my life, or vice versa

 

being at the bedside of a sweetheart...I wouldn't expect that unless it was quite serious and we'd gotten to the point of 'sharing' with f and f, so not always an issue

 

knowing of an illness or death...would be friends telling me, just as if there was something to happen to a bf

 

 

ADF...I live in the UK and having a friend who is a partner in a major firm in the northeast that handles 90% divorce cases-he's told me that over 75% of the divorces unofficially are tied into affairs. Of friends and acquaintances I've had over the years that have divorced I would say it's a bit higher % than that. I know that's not remotely scientific, but I can only go by what I hear and see. I have no idea how many of those relationships actually survive, but I think it's much more common than normally touted.

[MizFit]

There is a name for it--he's your paramour. It means an illicit lover.

 

Also defined as quite simply 'any lover'.

[sally4sara]

Its a relationship in that it is two or more relating to each other.

 

But you will not see a full scope of options in the relationship. There will be little chance at real long term planning such as in a non illicit relationship were the two people can forge together toward any goal that might come along. The secrecy is what diminishes options.

[MizFit]

Its a relationship in that it is two or more relating to each other.

 

But you will not see a full scope of options in the relationship. There will be little chance at real long term planning such as in a non illicit relationship were the two people can forge together toward any goal that might come along. The secrecy is what diminishes options.

 

In all fairness what diminishes the options is the WS who normally holds the cards for both parties. With the BS he is diminishing options because everything they believe and are working towards and forging with the WS is built on sand. With the OW/OM he is diminishing options because he is dangling carrots...allowing and sometimes encouraging options to be explored, but never attained.

 

I do acknowledge that not all As are built like this...my own isn't. I am kind of doing a majority rules thing here.

[jwi71]

"An intimate relationship is a particularly close interpersonal relationship. It can be defined by these characteristics: enduring behavioral interdependence, repeated interactions, emotional attachment, and need fulfillment." (Wikipedia)

 

According to the above an extramarital relationship is not only a relationship but an intimate relationship. It fulfills the requirements of:

 

- being a particularly close interpersonal relationship

- enduring behavioral interdependence

- repeated interactions

- emotional attachment

- need fulfillment

 

I have come to understand that many LS posters do not consider an extramarital relationship to qualify as a "real" relationship. This topic deserves its own thread in my opinion.

 

Look at all the worms you let out.

 

Is an A an R?

Yes.

 

Is it "Real"?

No.

 

Oh, I guess I should define real huh?

For this 39yo Texan, a Real R is:

1) Public. This is obvious...its NOT hidden.

2) Exclusive. Obvious again. There are TWO people involved - Him and Her(or Him and Him or Her and Her).

3) Forward thinking. The planning that goes on is about THEM, their wedding, their retirement, their children, their money, their mortgage, their vacations, etc. And I mean concrete planning, actual joint accounts, 401k's, etc...not just fantasy pillow talk and no action.

4) Not perfect. Bills, 3am feedings, nursing each other to health, mowing the lawn, and all the other stuff you don't see in sitcoms, commercials or soap operas. This is where virtually ALL A's fail and here is where the "isn't real" claim is born. An A is like a long term honeymoon phase because "reality" hasn't hit.

5) No secrets. Exactly that, there are no secrets, including the "left unsaid" ones.

6) Together. Always together. Not every other weekend and Thursday after work but before 7pm at <name your fancy hotel>.

 

I'm sure I have more...just can't think of 'em....

[jennie-jennie]

Sure, it's a relationship. As I said in the other thread, I have a "relationship" with this keyboard I'm typing on.

I believe I also explained in the other thread what I meant by "real" relationship, and why I don't feel an A is one. Perhaps comperable might have been a better word.

An affair is predominately a HIDDEN dating relationship, except a single gal is typically included in many things an OW is not, such as family gatherings and business functions. A single gal can be at her sweetheart's bedside if he's in the hospital, an OW may never even know he was IN the hospital. A single gal doesn't have to hide anything. An OW has to hide everything.

 

That's no "real" relationship to me.

 

jthorne, I don't think relationship is an appropriate word to use about how you relate to your keyboard. It certainly isn't an intimate relationship.

 

From OneLook Dictionary Search:

 

▸ noun: a relation between people; (`relationship' is often used where `relation' would serve, as in `the relationship between inflation and unemployment', but the preferred usage of `relationship' is for human relations or states of relatedness) ("The relationship between mothers and their children")

▸ noun: a state of connectedness between people (especially an emotional connection) ("He didn't want his wife to know of the relationship")

▸ noun: a state involving mutual dealings between people or parties or countries

▸ noun: state of relatedness or connection by blood or marriage or adoption

[jennie-jennie]

This^^ but also the affair aka relationship foundation is all based on a lie. On the expense of the BS.

 

This I don't get. The marriage is based on a lie, but the extramarital relationship isn't.

[OWoman]

For this 39yo Texan, a Real R is:

1) Public. This is obvious...its NOT hidden.

2) Exclusive. Obvious again. There are TWO people involved - Him and Her(or Him and Him or Her and Her).

3) Forward thinking. The planning that goes on is about THEM, their wedding, their retirement, their children, their money, their mortgage, their vacations, etc. And I mean concrete planning, actual joint accounts, 401k's, etc...not just fantasy pillow talk and no action.

4) Not perfect. Bills, 3am feedings, nursing each other to health, mowing the lawn, and all the other stuff you don't see in sitcoms, commercials or soap operas. This is where virtually ALL A's fail and here is where the "isn't real" claim is born. An A is like a long term honeymoon phase because "reality" hasn't hit.

5) No secrets. Exactly that, there are no secrets, including the "left unsaid" ones.

6) Together. Always together. Not every other weekend and Thursday after work but before 7pm at <name your fancy hotel>.

 

JW I'm sure all the millions of Ws in the third world whose Hs (or Hs whose Ws) are migrant labourers would be pretty upset to hear you describe their Ms as "not real". As would all those BSs whose WSs kept secrets from them. Or those in open Ms, those "live in the moment" types who don't plan or those who, for religious / caste / cultural or other reasons, have to keep their M secret. Perhaps the ideal Texan M meets all of your criteria, but I dare say the vast majority of RL Ms all over the world don't - and some As do.

 

Certainly, my A had all but no 6 (being LD) and his M to his xW had only no 4. If you were to use that as a scale to decide whether their M or our A was the "real" R, it would clearly be our A.

[OWoman]

An affair is predominately a HIDDEN dating relationship, except a single gal is typically included in many things an OW is not, such as family gatherings and business functions. A single gal can be at her sweetheart's bedside if he's in the hospital, an OW may never even know he was IN the hospital. A single gal doesn't have to hide anything. An OW has to hide everything.

 

Only some As, and only some dating Rs. Not by any means all.

 

As an SG I would never have gone to a family gathering or a business function - I would have deemed it inappropriate if asked. I similarly would never have taken a "date" to any such myself. Not because I had "anything to hide", but because it would have endowed the "date" with some kind of significance in my life he would not have warranted. Same way I would never introduce my kids to a romantic interest I was not completely was going to be in my life in 5, 10 years time.

 

As an OW I was very much included in family gatherings and business functions, and included my then-MM in mine. We had nothing to hide. And we were very much part of each others' lives in a very significant, long-term way, and had no problem with people knowing that.

[Jilly Bean]

It's a relationship is that a relationship is defined as any ongoing interaction between two people.

 

I have a relationship with my mechanic, my students, my grandmother, my family, my boyfriend, my pets...

 

Relationships come in many forms.

 

Now, an affair is a relationship by a book definition, but in reality, it's not a legitimate romantic relationship. Any "relationship" that has to be hidden then by default, lessens it's validity.

 

I think affairs are merely fantasy. Both parties like to say how intense and real the A is, yet, great lengths are taken by the MP to HIDE the relationship. Anything you're proud of wouldn't be treated like this...

[White Flower]

This question frustrated me in another thread and absolutely it's a real relationship that exists. My point was that if an extra-marital relationship is not a real, tangible one why do so many BS's give a damn when they find out their spouse has been cheating?

Exaaaaaaaactlyyyy.