Is an extramarital relationship a real relationship?

[White Flower]

It's a relationship is that a relationship is defined as any ongoing interaction between two people.

 

I have a relationship with my mechanic, my students, my grandmother, my family, my boyfriend, my pets...

 

Relationships come in many forms.

 

Now, an affair is a relationship by a book definition, but in reality, it's not a legitimate romantic relationship. Any "relationship" that has to be hidden then by default, lessens it's validity.

 

I think affairs are merely fantasy. Both parties like to say how intense and real the A is, yet, great lengths are taken by the MP to HIDE the relationship. Anything you're proud of wouldn't be treated like this...

This is an interesting point and something I have been dealing with lately. I was a secret for 4 years straight but just before D-day #2 MM had decided to confide in his friend who seems to be, now, his best friend. He told him all about me, told him how proud he was of me, etc. He did the same with his brother and his IC.

 

Some As do start out and remain fantasies, I will agree with you. But when I began to want more and began negotiations for it, he stepped up to the plate and began making me visible, one by one, to those who are important to him. I don't know what lies in our future, but if the OW is important to the MM, eventually, he will be proud to make her presence in his life known to all.

[jennie-jennie]

Look at all the worms you let out.

 

Is an A an R?

Yes.

 

Is it "Real"?

No.

 

Oh, I guess I should define real huh?

For this 39yo Texan, a Real R is:

1) Public. This is obvious...its NOT hidden.

2) Exclusive. Obvious again. There are TWO people involved - Him and Her(or Him and Him or Her and Her).

3) Forward thinking. The planning that goes on is about THEM, their wedding, their retirement, their children, their money, their mortgage, their vacations, etc. And I mean concrete planning, actual joint accounts, 401k's, etc...not just fantasy pillow talk and no action.

4) Not perfect. Bills, 3am feedings, nursing each other to health, mowing the lawn, and all the other stuff you don't see in sitcoms, commercials or soap operas. This is where virtually ALL A's fail and here is where the "isn't real" claim is born. An A is like a long term honeymoon phase because "reality" hasn't hit.

5) No secrets. Exactly that, there are no secrets, including the "left unsaid" ones.

6) Together. Always together. Not every other weekend and Thursday after work but before 7pm at <name your fancy hotel>.

 

I'm sure I have more...just can't think of 'em....

 

There are a lot of intimate relationships between two single people which do not fit this bill. If I interpret this correctly, only marriages and common-law marriages would.

[Art_Critic]

yes.. it is a real relationship..

 

That doesn't mean it is a healthy relationship though.

IMO it is a real dysfunctional relationship that has very few rewards unlike a healthy relationship.

[MizFit]

yes.. it is a real relationship..

 

That doesn't mean it is a healthy relationship though.

IMO it is a real dysfunctional relationship that has very few rewards unlike a healthy relationship.

 

I hate to be a cynic, but I tend to see a whole lot more dysfunctional relationships that require tons of work and compromise than functional ones that just fly through life. Just because it's dysfunctional should it be abandoned? I'm not talking about the stereotypical A where a mogul seduces his 20 yr old secretary and then casts her aside. I'm talking about APs who feel there is a real relationship...it might not be 'real' in the terms some people here are speaking of, but is it any less real and any less worthy of being worked on than any other R?

[White Flower]

I hate to be a cynic, but I tend to see a whole lot more dysfunctional relationships that require tons of work and compromise than functional ones that just fly through life. Just because it's dysfunctional should it be abandoned? I'm not talking about the stereotypical A where a mogul seduces his 20 yr old secretary and then casts her aside. I'm talking about APs who feel there is a real relationship...it might not be 'real' in the terms some people here are speaking of, but is it any less real and any less worthy of being worked on than any other R?

Every R has the chance of being dysfunctional or functional. My M was dysfunctional. My A was actually quite functional until I decided I needed to renegotiate the terms which is happening now.

 

When I tried to renegotiate the terms of my M, my head kept hitting the wall. That is when dysfunction becomes divorce.

 

And if the functionality is not sufficient then the AR should come to an end or be renegotiated.

[crazycatlady]

Its a real relationship. But the affair makes both the affair and the marriage a dysfunctional relationship. Without full knowledge on all sides and full disclosure on all sides none of the relationships can be healthy nor can they thrive in the long run without some type of resolution coming about.

 

CCL

[bananalaffytaffy]

Those that are in affairs and want to make themselves feel better can glorify their affair all they want by saying it's a relationship. Feel free to delude yourself. An affair is an affair is an affair. It's a secret illicit relationship. If calling it a relationship helps you forget the secret illicit part, good for you. It's just more of the denial required to carry on an affair in the first place.

[Silly_Girl]

Those that are in affairs and want to make themselves feel better can glorify their affair all they want by saying it's a relationship. Feel free to delude yourself. An affair is an affair is an affair. It's a secret illicit relationship. If calling it a relationship helps you forget the secret illicit part, good for you. It's just more of the denial required to carry on an affair in the first place.

 

It's a secret, immoral, dishonorable, illicit relationship. You can insert adjectives as you see fit. Doesn't change the fact it's a relationship.

[whichwayisup]

I have stumbled a few times when talking to people about my MM--what is he?? My boyfriend, my affairy. my lover,my longdistance lover friend, my "significant other". What do i call him? It bothers me that there is no proper word for it and therefore I always felt that it therefore wasn't anything.

 

If there is no name for it is it there fore out of bounds of an actual relationship. There is no doubt it is a relationship--contact daily-etccc. but to not be able to call him anything is tough. I want to call him by an actual title. (and i can just here the responses--LOL--yes ladies and gentleman I know what you want to call him).

 

Affair partner. Though I doubt many OW would openly call their MM that a party setting.

[bananalaffytaffy]

It's a secret, immoral, dishonorable, illicit relationship. You can insert adjectives as you see fit. Doesn't change the fact it's a relationship.

So what is your point?

Cyanide is a chemical.

Heroin is a drug.

[whichwayisup]

This I don't get. The marriage is based on a lie, but the extramarital relationship isn't.

 

What? You're saying that the marriage was a lie from day one, yet the affair is the true primary relationship?

 

You've reversed what I said. What I meant was, the affair is based on a lie! The foundation is based on a lie..Since the person who is married is out of bounds by having a relationship with someone else..While still married.. That affair/ relationship, whatever started with dishonesty. ON the expense of the married persons spouse. Maybe I worded it wrong earlier? I'm not sure, I will go check..

[MizFit]

Affair partner. Though I doubt many OW would openly call their MM that a party setting.

 

I'd call him by his first name, just like I used to my xH. I didn't identify him as 'part' of me. If someone asked then I'd tell them...anyone I know is fully aware of the situation anyway.

[MizFit]

What? You're saying that the marriage was a lie from day one, yet the affair is the true primary relationship?

 

You've reversed what I said. What I meant was, the affair is based on a lie! The foundation is based on a lie..Since the person who is married is out of bounds by having a relationship with someone else..While still married.. That affair/ relationship, whatever started with dishonesty. ON the expense of the married persons spouse. Maybe I worded it wrong earlier? I'm not sure, I will go check..

 

I can't, and won't, speak for J-J, but my perception of what she is saying is that when an A starts it can be the case where the WS is more truthful to the OW/OM than to the BS. The M wasn't started with lies, but that is what it is at the time of the A.

 

Please keep in mind that is not the case of all As...probably more often than not the WS lies to both, but I know in my experience that is not the case.

[Silly_Girl]

So what is your point?

QUOTE]

 

In answer to the OP's question, an affair is a relationship. The rest is window dressing.

[califnan]

Alright .. I'm going to say it!

 

I don't consider it anymore honorable if the OW manages to break up the marriage and marry him ...

 

A Lot more Damage done, believe me ..

 

Only diff is the OW turned MW gets to show her face at his funeral. (after having him cremated) ..

 

(Answer to orig question - yes it's a relationship.. All interactions are to some degree, aren't they.) ..

[MizFit]

Alright .. I'm going to say it!

 

I don't consider it anymore honorable if the OW manages to break up the marriage and marry him ...

 

A Lot more Damage done, believe me ..

 

Only diff is the OW turned MW gets to show her face at his funeral. (after having him cremated) ..

 

(Answer to orig question - yes it's a relationship.. All interactions are to some degree, aren't they.) ..

 

Well...I have to say that theOW/OM doesn't break up the marriage...the WS does. The WS takes the decision to get the ball rolling and open up the marriage. Everyone keeps saying actions speak louder than words...sometimes when someone strays and keeps going that's a very loud action-one taken by the WS.

[pureinheart]

"An intimate relationship is a particularly close interpersonal relationship. It can be defined by these characteristics: enduring behavioral interdependence, repeated interactions, emotional attachment, and need fulfillment." (Wikipedia)

 

According to the above an extramarital relationship is not only a relationship but an intimate relationship. It fulfills the requirements of:

 

- being a particularly close interpersonal relationship

- enduring behavioral interdependence

- repeated interactions

- emotional attachment

- need fulfillment

 

I have come to understand that many LS posters do not consider an extramarital relationship to qualify as a "real" relationship. This topic deserves its own thread in my opinion.

 

You might not catch this JW....how does a 39 yo Texan come up with the term of jennie letting a bunch of worms out (paraphrasing)? Just messing with you, you seem like really good people.

 

Well my dear, you did it again. Another thought provoking thread that will eventually lead me to a greater understanding of my own sitches.

 

Due to things coming at me faster than I could deal with them, I had a box of bandaids always available. Eventually the bandaids would not hold and here I am with the (hopefully) tail end of a really big mess.

 

In answer to the question, yes, affirmative, si...etc.

 

This is why I believe some may not see an extramarital R as not real could be due to the fact that someone in this got "hurt", meaning the BS, WS, OM/OW, either got dumped for the other and so on.

 

As humans we have a tendancy to guard ourselves from hurt, this is quite normal. In this process we decide what is real and what isn't. When my H had an A, I recognized that yes this is true, although did not give validity to the heartfelt emotions he had or had to have had in this R no matter how long or short it was, hence denial on my part...I knew it, but didn't at the same time.

 

Hurt caused denial for me in all R's causing certain parts not to be real.

 

It is all real, right, wrong or indifferent.

[sweetky]

From what I've read on here and other places, it all a matter of opinion. Most OW's will say it's a real relationship, most BS's will say no way and as for WS's it's a toss up. Some say it is or was and other say it isn't or wasen't. One OW may say it is but her own MM will say it's not. A BS's may say it isn't and the WS will say it was. Ultimately, imho it comes down to what the WS thinks and what that persons actions show. You can think it's a relationship all day long but if the person you are with disagrees then it's not a relationship. The person you are with might agree that it's a relationship but if you are kept hidden then actions speak alot. There's alot of variables in something like this.

[pureinheart]

Alright .. I'm going to say it!

 

I don't consider it anymore honorable if the OW manages to break up the marriage and marry him ...

 

A Lot more Damage done, believe me ..

 

Only diff is the OW turned MW gets to show her face at his funeral. (after having him cremated) ..

 

(Answer to orig question - yes it's a relationship.. All interactions are to some degree, aren't they.) ..

 

(((((((((hugs)))))))))

[jennie-jennie]

What? You're saying that the marriage was a lie from day one, yet the affair is the true primary relationship?

 

You've reversed what I said. What I meant was, the affair is based on a lie! The foundation is based on a lie..Since the person who is married is out of bounds by having a relationship with someone else..While still married.. That affair/ relationship, whatever started with dishonesty. ON the expense of the married persons spouse. Maybe I worded it wrong earlier? I'm not sure, I will go check..

 

I can't, and won't, speak for J-J, but my perception of what she is saying is that when an A starts it can be the case where the WS is more truthful to the OW/OM than to the BS. The M wasn't started with lies, but that is what it is at the time of the A.

 

Please keep in mind that is not the case of all As...probably more often than not the WS lies to both, but I know in my experience that is not the case.

 

That is what I meant. The marriage is based on a lie from the day the affair started. The affair is based on love. Simple and easy to understand.

 

The marriage contains lies. The affair doesn't.

 

I know this is not true for all affairs, but for affairs like mine it is.

[jennie-jennie]

Affair partner. Though I doubt many OW would openly call their MM that a party setting.

 

Boyfriend, lover, significant other.

 

Dear child has many names. (a proverb in my country)

[jennie-jennie]

Alright .. I'm going to say it!

 

I don't consider it anymore honorable if the OW manages to break up the marriage and marry him ...

 

A Lot more Damage done, believe me ..

Only diff is the OW turned MW gets to show her face at his funeral. (after having him cremated) ..

 

(Answer to orig question - yes it's a relationship.. All interactions are to some degree, aren't they.) ..

 

ROTFL :lmao:

[Art_Critic]

That is what I meant. The marriage is based on a lie from the day the affair started. The affair is based on love. Simple and easy to understand.

 

The marriage contains lies. The affair doesn't.

 

I know this is not true for all affairs, but for affairs like mine it is.

 

Something tells me that your viewpoint is only based on what you see and feel in the relationship and not what he sees and feels.

 

Of course it looks great to you.. I think that it obviously takes a second chair to his marriage though.. since he is still married and only with you a small portion of the time.

 

What do you think he would post to those very same questions ?.. do you think he would say that his affair is based on love and not lies ?

 

In order for your affair to sustain itself he must be lying to keep it going.. so it is based on lies.

[jennie-jennie]

Something tells me that your viewpoint is only based on what you see and feel in the relationship and not what he sees and feels.

 

Of course it looks great to you.. I think that it obviously takes a second chair to his marriage though.. since he is still married and only with you a small portion of the time.

 

What do you think he would post to those very same questions ?.. do you think he would say that his affair is based on love and not lies ?

 

In order for your affair to sustain itself he must be lying to keep it going.. so it is based on lies.

 

You got it all wrong. The cornerstone of our relationship is honesty, and has so been from the start. The fact that his marriage contains lies makes it even more important to him that the other relationship in his life contains no lies.

[Art_Critic]

You got it all wrong. The cornerstone of our relationship is honesty, and has so been from the start. The fact that his marriage contains lies makes it even more important to him that the other relationship in his life contains no lies.

 

Does he lie to his wife about the existence of your affair ?

 

If he does then your affair is based on lies.. he must continue to lie for the affair to continue.

 

I would say though that your affair isn't solely based on lies..

 

I think you would benefit from looking at things from a different perspective..

How about looking at your affair from his viewpoint instead of yours for example..