Stuck!

[WhyHope]

Ok... I found this forum and was actually surprised to know that I am not SICK - that there are other people that feel the same way as I do. )))

 

Anyways - my life story. I chased my future wife for a year. Courted and tried and did everything. She had a BF at that time and I was in the middle of breaking up with my GF. After (key!) we both split, it just steamrolled - we had a couple of movie nights, then we slept together and I kinda never left. 4 months later - SHE proposed. Kinda said that we should get married. We did. (I loved her). Then, we bought a house, had 2 kids... I went to law school (tough times for both of us), after I graduated - clerked for a year, and later opened up my own shop. It is still in the process of picking up.

THE GOOD: We were always compatible - two very good looking people (damn, this sounds cocky), smart; business owners. Kids - gorgeous and awesome. I have always been loving to her. Sex - mind-blowing. We were always able to talk.

THE BAD: She is a flirt (I will get back to that). She is a workaholic (but still a GREAT mother). I (being the center of every party since my youth) - do have a drinking problem (or so she says) - if I drink - I drink a ton. Money - I have been making very little since I STARTED law school (I am 3 years out) - basically our entire marriage she was the breadwinner. I am a jealous freak (according to her).

About 8 months ago, I was out with a friend of mine (we did go out drinking). After I came home - my wife and I had an argument. Next morning I apologized (she never does) and we kinda let it go (as we have throughout our 8 year relationship, or so I thought). Got behind a computer (hers) and her email (work) was opened - and read some unsettling messages from one of her partners. Have to say - nothing graphic or really bad - he was saying how awesome she is and so on, and being really romantic. She did not really respond to any romantic stuff - but did not shut it down. Instead of monitoring her convos w him for another couple of days/weeks and/or blowing up on him... I caught her in a lie ("Meet me for coffee" - "I can't" - she met him instead) and went off... But not really in a way that I think was right - I asked her how involved it was and so on and how our marriage is important and ya da ya da... She reassured me that nothing is going on and that if it makes me feel better that she will stop any and all contact with him. To make the long story short - Its been 8 months - I have lost about 25 pounds (I do look great now actually ))), have hounded and spied on her. Constantly asked for reiteration of her feelings towards me and that she wants to keep this marriage and all of that. Constantly asked her whether she is w him. We went from - "Don't worry, all will be ok." to "I want a divorce" in those 8 months (this came out yesterday (but we have been discussing it for the past 5 months). During this time I moved out (for what??? - I still called her daily and asked her stupid questions); moved back in; We were sleeping together and having sex 3 (!) days prior to me moving out. As recent as last Thursday we kissed - passionately. (When I brought those things up with her - her response was that she is "just trying to keep me calm" and that some people have sex with hookers (I know - just stupid).

I am on the 2nd day of NC (found it here). I am OK with it - I guess by now I actually realized that she is NOT cheating (at least not physically) - she was always a "guys girl" - cool to hang out with, very pretty; one could talk to her about anything. VERY difficult to get in her pants. She does NOT have girlfriends; she has guy friends. Is her flirtatiousness an EA?? Yeah, hell yeah. But is it something that I can deal with? I think so, I LOVE HER. she is unhappy with where I am at in life. She "does not see changes" in me.

 

She did not want to file for the divorce because: "I would ruin her financially (BS - I told her that I need nothing, only custody may be an issue); "we have two little kids" - speculating with the kids: I am NOT allowed to do that, but its ok for her... Lately, she is saying that because we have fights in front of the kids (we had may be 4 - all escalated by her in front of the children - that DIVORCE is the best solution. Except... If I move OUT, then we have a chance - "I have to find myself as a man, then we MAY have a chance". "Get up on your feet" - then we will see. That type of stuff.

 

I have become a "control freak" - any conversation with her - I tend to ask the stupid questions - "Where, with Who and so on"... Why do I do it? Have no idea - may be control, but more likely - trying to patch things up.

 

She said that we have been fighting for 8 years; we are not right for each other; she does not love me; she wants to end this... But she does not; keeps giving me mixed messages. (Sleeping with me; kissing; some conversations are awesome. WHY?!)

 

I have gone through a plethora of emotions and feelings. Right now I feel OK - I finally realized that I must act like a man that's confident in himself (I get hit on by women all the time - but I don't want any of them - I want my wife). Kids (my oldest is 6) - start to realize and are starting to talk mommy and daddy into loving each other: "Mommy kiss daddy, daddy kiss mommy" - KILLS ME.

 

I feel that I am a good father and a good husband - I spend a lot of time (that's why I went into private practice, her idea btw) with my kids (they love me); I have not cheated on my wife (I love her); I don't abuse her (damn it, at least not physically) Yes, I have been freakin nuts over this - with decent reasons to be. I have been trying to control her and push my love onto her.

 

THE UGLY: Her family (mother and older sister) are all up in our business. BIG TIME. They are pushing her to stand her ground and suggesting to both her and I that the best solution is for me to move out and get up on my feet (her mom actually said a number of times that I still have a chance to save the family and so on).

 

The QUESTION: Do I move out? Do I try to stick it out and see where it leads us? (I have started NC or LC). (She actually just called. I didn't pick up and called her back later - kept the convo just to what was necessary: i.e. answering her questions). Are they all (her mom, her sister and she) just trying to "fix" me? Or WTF is going on? Is separation a way to go? (If I do not give her space in the house - don't matter where I am at - I will not give her space either)

 

P.S.: We are both 31. Her mother lives across the street (I know, I know - I should have known better when I agreed to buy that house). And I am the attorney people bring in on their divorces when they want the fight to get ugly... (Sorry - but that's what I do).

[skywriter]

WhyHope,

 

Hi and welcome to LS.

 

Have you considered, asking your wife, to try marriage counseling with you?

[WhyHope]

WhyHope,

 

Hi and welcome to LS.

 

Have you considered, asking your wife, to try marriage counseling with you?

 

Of course I have - and received a resounding NO... I, for some reason, do feel that all she is doing is teaching me a lesson.

[trippi1432]

Hi WhyHope - Welcome to LS for what it is worth.

 

I see a lot of "panic" in your post...which is typical when you are trying to get your thoughts together. Being that you are already an attorney, you pretty much know how things could go "down", but it doesn't appear that you want that....it sounds more like you want to save your marriage.

 

First and foremost, the jealousy thing has got to go.....while women want to be admired by their husband's, jealousy is not an admiration quality, it is a possessive quality or someone thinking they have a right to "ownership". This is something that it does sound like you need to work on. Admittedly, your wife had some emails with someone....not sure if that went much further by your post; however, it does sound like you held onto the angst for a bit and could have been some of the problems as well.

 

Arguing in front of the kids, never a good thing...believe me, I know firsthand. The kids wanting Mommy and Daddy to kiss already implies the insecurity they are feeling during this tug of war. Both of you are able to put an end to that...wish I had, by moving the discussion to another location or putting the discussion off to another time when you are both not so emotional during the discussion.

 

It sounds like your marriage does have some support by the in-law side....but in-laws will always be in the middle if either of you drag them in. Need to execute some boundaries there on the in-laws and what your wife discusses with them without your knowledge. A marriage should be open to honesty about each other and what the issues are.

 

You stated that she is a flirt and a work-a-holic, you also stated that you can be a control freak and have a little bit of a drinking problem....this isn't a disaster yet....but being able to admit these things is good at this stage of your marriage.

 

I'm sure that I don't have to tell you that flirting and being a control freak are self-esteem issues. Everyone has them to some point, even the most beautiful people. In addition, being a work-a-holic typically relates to those who are throwing themselves after something they feel is lacking in their normal lives....does she want to be a work-a-holic....is she only doing this until your practice gets up to par? That all needs to be looked at and come up with a plan where she can scale back her work that is comfortable for all if she is willing or can. As for the drinking, that is something that you can easily control being aware of it.

 

To me, it doesn't sound like she wants to end it, she wants the dynamic of the marriage to change. This sounds like marriage counseling time....there is not "fix" for either of you.....learning and growth sounds like what is needed here.

 

Just to state for the record, any man or woman who thinks that the other person can be "changed" is wrong. People may adjust to particular things or come to acceptance, but all and all out change....not possible.

 

Please keep posting....we are all here to help.

 

Trippi

[WhyHope]

Trippi!

 

Thanx! Of course there is panic. As I said - I love her. Do not want to lose her. I get the jealousy and the drinking stuff - had not had a drink in 4 months. Work - it will take another 4-6 months for the income stream to stabilize.

 

As for me knowing how bad can it get... Trust me, I do know. While being a young attorney, I am also the "chosen" one on a number of cases that are high-profile (i.e. rich exes trying to screw each other) in my area. I have been brought in because I do have the reputation of being an @zz.

 

As for the in-laws - I think you misunderstood me. Wife is getting the wrong kind of support from them - separation - is the only solution in their eyes. I am wrong in everything, she is right in everything.

 

I loved the fact that my Wife was an independent woman when we started out. I loved the fact that we could disagree. I loved that we could admit being wrong. And then... I changed. Or may be stayed the same? Whichever, I do know that I will not change as a person - I am what I am and I am very happy with that. I am a stubborn, emotional, loyal dude. Habits? Money, drinking, jealousy - I feel I can overcome - if I had her help it would have been a lot easier of course.

 

She is NOT willing to discuss at this point our relationship. She is NOT willing to reassure me that everything will be OK. I have asked and begged and pleaded. She is fed up. I am too. That's why - NC (or actually LC). Without it - I will continue falling in her eyes. But it is damn hard.

 

On the other hand she does qualify every single thing she says. I.e.: I don't want to be with you... at this time. I am not willing to work on this marriage... yet. and so on.

 

Should I move out?

Edited June 14, 2010 by WhyHope

[trippi1432]

Trippi!

 

Thanx! Of course there is panic. As I said - I love her. Do not want to lose her. I get the jealousy and the drinking stuff - had not had a drink in 4 months. Work - it will take another 4-6 months for the income stream to stabilize.

 

Understood, and I can understand your panic as well....

 

As for me knowing how bad can it get... Trust me, I do know. While being a young attorney, I am also the "chosen" one on a number of cases that are high-profile (i.e. rich exes trying to screw each other) in my area. I have been brought in because I do have the reputation of being an @zz.

 

As for the in-laws - I think you misunderstood me. Wife is getting the wrong kind of support from them - separation - is the only solution in their eyes. I am wrong in everything, she is right in everything.

 

My apologies, I thought that it sounded as if the MIL was supportive of the marriage and the two of you working things out....the separation, perhaps being the defense of taking some time away from each other.

 

I loved the fact that my Wife was an independent woman when we started out. I loved the fact that we could disagree. I loved that we could admit being wrong. And then... I changed. Or may be stayed the same? Whichever, I do know that I will not change as a person - I am what I am and I am very happy with that. I am a stubborn, emotional, loyal dude. Habits? Money, drinking, jealousy - I feel I can overcome - if I had her help it would have been a lot easier of course.

 

This is what you both were and will always be...it's the codependency of each others strengths and weaknesses. Honestly, the dynamics that I see here is that you are both a hot-headed couple (this was something that Divorce Busting pointed out to me a long time ago on my own marriage). You should look them up, just google Divorce Busting, it will bring you to Michelle Weiner-Davis's site.

 

You have to understand as well tho, it is not your wife's place to help you with the habits: money, drinking and jealousy.... she needs to see you make those positive changes on her own. If she notices, all the better, but they are changes that only you can do for your marriage.

She is NOT willing to discuss at this point our relationship. She is NOT willing to reassure me that everything will be OK. I have asked and begged and pleaded. She is fed up. I am too. That's why - NC (or actually LC). Without it - I will continue falling in her eyes. But it is damn hard.

 

Anytime you go NC or LC, it's hard....personally, I feel that it kills the relationship and says..."Hey, had enough...time to move on!!". At least that is how my STBXH took it, and move on he did. I'm not all for the NC/LC thing unless it gets emotionally or physically abusive, then yes, cut off contact.

 

On the other hand she does qualify every single thing she says. I.e.: I don't want to be with you... at this time. I am not willing to work on this marriage... yet. and so on.

 

Should I move out?

 

No, I do not think you should move out....as an attorney, you also know what that means. Stay in the home and if possible, move to another room...but do not leave the home!! It would also be better for the kids if both of their parents were in the home as well, but being civil to each other.

 

It sounds like the two of you have an extremely hot-headed relationship and have issues seeing eye-to-eye on things. Not every decision needs to be a competition. Read up on some posts around LS as well as look to some self help books or reading online....that Divorce Busting site is a good place to start if you truly want to save your marriage.

[WhyHope]

I will definitely follow up w your advice on DB. Lets see what I can find there.

 

As for NC/LC - I feel that I personally need it to become more independent. And to tell you the truth, she has been asking for it kinda - "You do not leave me alone. Please. Just don't bug me" - I think that's a good way of "hinting" that I should back off.

 

Question though, what do you think about me moving or staying? Do I "follow" the advice of HER mother (even though I think its idiotic) or do I stick to my guns?

[trippi1432]

I will definitely follow up w your advice on DB. Lets see what I can find there.

 

As for NC/LC - I feel that I personally need it to become more independent. And to tell you the truth, she has been asking for it kinda - "You do not leave me alone. Please. Just don't bug me" - I think that's a good way of "hinting" that I should back off.

 

Question though, what do you think about me moving or staying? Do I "follow" the advice of HER mother (even though I think its idiotic) or do I stick to my guns?

 

Maybe LC is better...but NC...no....you might want to let up a little on where the two of you stand....let her come to you, but still keep it a marriage.

 

On the moving out...you're an attorney...what happens if you give up the marital home in PA? You should know this better than I do....do you give up any assets by moving out, do you give up any equity by moving out...get the picture. And if you really want to work on the marriage, moving out is not working on it.....read up on Divorce Busting....it's all there.

[trippi1432]

Oh, and one last thing on the MIL....NO....in-laws should mind their own business....this marriage is between you and her and involves the children you have together....in-law opinions are outside of the boundaries of your marriage. Stick to your guns on that one....mine...they never interfered (and hilariously....his and mine were on my side for the most part after he walked away from the marriage).

[WhyHope]

It is LC. She called to tell/ask that she is picking up the kids from daycare. I said that it is her day - she said that she did not that we are still sticking to the schedule. (We had a schedule worked out in the past to limit the unnecessary contact). I said good bye and hung up.

 

When I got home, my little on said that "Daddy and Mommy should not scream at each other like they did on the weekend". W: "We will never go through that again"... Kinda directed at me of course.

 

Has she passed her breaking point? She is a forgiving type. her Mom's "encouragement" that "I still have a chance" and "She is here, she is not going anywhere" - How should I treat that???

 

Today for some reason was a very easy day. And yesterday too. I guess I kinda figured that nothing "worse" can happen now.

 

As for moving out and the impact of it in divorce in PA - none. Custody can be somewhat affected by it. And ONLY marginally (and not necessarily badly).

[trippi1432]

It is LC. She called to tell/ask that she is picking up the kids from daycare. I said that it is her day - she said that she did not that we are still sticking to the schedule. (We had a schedule worked out in the past to limit the unnecessary contact). I said good bye and hung up.

 

When I got home, my little on said that "Daddy and Mommy should not scream at each other like they did on the weekend". W: "We will never go through that again"... Kinda directed at me of course.

 

Kids are smart at any age....this in itself should humble you both.

 

Has she passed her breaking point? She is a forgiving type. her Mom's "encouragement" that "I still have a chance" and "She is here, she is not going anywhere" - How should I treat that???

 

This is why I originally thought that the MIL is being supportive of you both...mine was too before the girlfriend....don't give her space to allow a boyfriend between the two of you. Don't take this unkindly, but if you are of the jealous nature, this is exactly where you could push her....be calm, be relaxed and take each day as a new one for now. Let her see some adjustments in you and see how she reacts. Can you change...no, you are who you are...you were born with your personality, it's genetic.....but if you truly love your family and want to keep it together, you can adjust just like she can and will.

 

Today for some reason was a very easy day. And yesterday too. I guess I kinda figured that nothing "worse" can happen now.

 

As for moving out and the impact of it in divorce in PA - none. Custody can be somewhat affected by it. And ONLY marginally (and not necessarily badly).

 

I can't say much more then.....look at divorce busting and see what they advise on moving out....once you do, the entire dynamic changes. Believe me, from my own experience, I just spoke with my son to try to plan the next 6 months of the year....it's not fun and it's not easy....is that where you truly want to be?

[WhyHope]

Hell no! I do not. I feel that there is still a chance to save this marriage. I feel that she is "trying" to give me that chance - I am the one blowing it by "nagging" her with my love and other things. LRT - do you know anything about that?

[trippi1432]

Hell no! I do not. I feel that there is still a chance to save this marriage. I feel that she is "trying" to give me that chance - I am the one blowing it by "nagging" her with my love and other things. LRT - do you know anything about that?

 

Have not heard of the acronym LRT, but not surprising since everything has an acronym these days....now if you mean Long Term Relationship...yes, I do understand that having come out of a 15 year one myself.....

 

And I would say, dear counselor, instead of arguing your case here on saving your marriage...if she is giving you a chance and you know that your nagging her is "blowing it"....then adjust yourself appropriately and watch her respond.....if she has no trust in you doing that, then you must wash, rinse, repeat. It's really up to you.....do you want to save the marriage or do you want her to do all the work....saving a marriage is a two way street...you are either both up to the challenge or the jury is out for debate.

[WhyHope]

Ha! You made me laugh! yes, I do think that she is trying to give me a chance (or am I reading too much into what she does/says???) And yes, I have been blowing it. Like I probably will tonight by going to our bed (she is there, I am on the couch - damn thing is uncomfortable!) Plus, I love feeling that she is next to me.

 

As for the Counsel remark - I am one stubborn bastard - I feel that I can argue my way out of anything. This is the first case where i am completely lost - my arguments fall on deaf ears. And she does have the trump card - I WANT OUT, therefore, nothing that I can say will prove to be any helpful. For the first time in my life I have to say NOTHING... Hard as Heck! (I wish it was just her and I - I wish she would describe and discuss EVERYTHING in every detail. But... That will not happen, at least not now. I am ready NOT to have answers.

 

Trippi - you mentioned separation forums can you post links??? Thank you in advance. Whats ur story?

[Windsurf66]

Dun think you should move out, its yr home and yr family. Yr wife has absolutely no rights to ask you to move away from yr children. And if she is having an affair, moving out just facilitates her affair.

 

But perhaps will be good to give yr wife space.

 

I read in yr first post that she lied to you to go out with her partner. Did she explain why?

 

Keep working with her on yr marriage, and give her space. But good to set a time limit on yr marriage for her to get back on track. Else she might be stringing you along, and waiting for an opportunity to divorce you.

[Windsurf66]

Ha! You made me laugh! yes, I do think that she is trying to give me a chance (or am I reading too much into what she does/says???) And yes, I have been blowing it. Like I probably will tonight by going to our bed (she is there, I am on the couch - damn thing is uncomfortable!) Plus, I love feeling that she is next to me.

 

As for the Counsel remark - I am one stubborn bastard - I feel that I can argue my way out of anything. This is the first case where i am completely lost - my arguments fall on deaf ears. And she does have the trump card - I WANT OUT, therefore, nothing that I can say will prove to be any helpful. For the first time in my life I have to say NOTHING... Hard as Heck! (I wish it was just her and I - I wish she would describe and discuss EVERYTHING in every detail. But... That will not happen, at least not now. I am ready NOT to have answers.

 

Trippi - you mentioned separation forums can you post links??? Thank you in advance. Whats ur story?

 

What? U have no rights to yr own marital bed? Isn't this disrespectful of you? I mean, if she does not want intimacy while working on the marriage, thats fine. But why deprive you of a proper rest?

[trippi1432]

Ha! You made me laugh! yes, I do think that she is trying to give me a chance (or am I reading too much into what she does/says???) And yes, I have been blowing it. Like I probably will tonight by going to our bed (she is there, I am on the couch - damn thing is uncomfortable!) Plus, I love feeling that she is next to me.

 

If she doesn't kick you out....maybe that is a good sign.

 

As for the Counsel remark - I am one stubborn bastard - I feel that I can argue my way out of anything. This is the first case where i am completely lost - my arguments fall on deaf ears. And she does have the trump card - I WANT OUT, therefore, nothing that I can say will prove to be any helpful. For the first time in my life I have to say NOTHING... Hard as Heck! (I wish it was just her and I - I wish she would describe and discuss EVERYTHING in every detail. But... That will not happen, at least not now. I am ready NOT to have answers.

 

Trippi - you mentioned separation forums can you post links??? Thank you in advance. Whats ur story?

 

Dear Sir, I was married to a man just like you for 15 years, although he only had a 9th grade education, everything I said fell on deaf ears...words are only that....just words....actions speak more than words...always will.

 

I will look for the links....but there are many right here in the Separation and Divorce forum....look up Tojaz's story, Gunny, LisaUK, Steadfast, Floridapad and FL98...all went through divorce stories...none were attorney's at the time.

[WhyHope]

Dun think you should move out, its yr home and yr family. Yr wife has absolutely no rights to ask you to move away from yr children. And if she is having an affair, moving out just facilitates her affair.

 

But perhaps will be good to give yr wife space.

 

I read in yr first post that she lied to you to go out with her partner. Did she explain why?

 

Keep working with her on yr marriage, and give her space. But good to set a time limit on yr marriage for her to get back on track. Else she might be stringing you along, and waiting for an opportunity to divorce you.

Her time limit: If you do not move out - I will file. (Where the hell is the logic in that?!).

She, for the first time, threatened that SHE will move out if I don't (this Sunday). I don't think she is crazy enough to move the kids to a different place (but she did say that "they will be happy with all new stuff and all new toys" WOW!)

She said that she lied (there were other times that she did - to keep me sane. "You always react like a knucklehead. There is nothing." Now - I actually feel that there is nothing.

[WhyHope]

Dear Sir, I was married to a man just like you for 15 years, although he only had a 9th grade education, everything I said fell on deaf ears...words are only that....just words....actions speak more than words...always will.

 

I will look for the links....but there are many right here in the Separation and Divorce forum....look up Tojaz's story, Gunny, LisaUK, Steadfast, Floridapad and FL98...all went through divorce stories...none were attorney's at the time.

I always felt that a fight was just that - a fight (not a war), yes, I felt that I did change or address the problem (whatever it was at that time) and if it resurfaced later - big deal! (Now I know it is/was). For crying out loud, she actually mentioned some things that I DID before we got married - and I JUST found out that she was unhappy with them.

 

During the past 8 months - she did get jealous of me once (our relationship got better literally overnight). BUT... I kept pestering her with "Wheres and With Whoms" and plus she realized that I did not care whatsoever for the OW other than her just being someone to talk to (Even though the woman is rather stunning, accomplished... but not my wife)

[trippi1432]

I always felt that a fight was just that - a fight (not a war), yes, I felt that I did change or address the problem (whatever it was at that time) and if it resurfaced later - big deal! (Now I know it is/was). For crying out loud, she actually mentioned some things that I DID before we got married - and I JUST found out that she was unhappy with them.

 

During the past 8 months - she did get jealous of me once (our relationship got better literally overnight). BUT... I kept pestering her with "Wheres and With Whoms" and plus she realized that I did not care whatsoever for the OW other than her just being someone to talk to (Even though the woman is rather stunning, accomplished... but not my wife)

 

:eek: Ok, out with the rest of the story...the OW....was she the GF you were breaking up with before your wife? (I hope so)

 

And for Pete's sake, Danny Devito played an extremely short lawyer in War of the Roses....a marriage is NOT a fight about who is wrong or right.....

 

Repeat after me counselor, a marriage is NOT a fight about who is wrong or right. You do this all day for a living....don't bring your work home with you, nor your experience about getting into debates about what happened years ago...simply acknowledge them and move on....we live in the present...not the past. I don't see her as being a simple woman....once you do not engage her, she will only have the choice the disengage herself. I believe her to be this intelligent.

 

For what it's worth, this does not sound like a marriage that is over, just one that needs to be worked on.

[WhyHope]

:eek: Ok, out with the rest of the story...the OW....was she the GF you were breaking up with before your wife? (I hope so)

 

And for Pete's sake, Danny Devito played an extremely short lawyer in War of the Roses....a marriage is NOT a fight about who is wrong or right.....

 

Repeat after me counselor, a marriage is NOT a fight about who is wrong or right. You do this all day for a living....don't bring your work home with you, nor your experience about getting into debates about what happened years ago...simply acknowledge them and move on....we live in the present...not the past. I don't see her as being a simple woman....once you do not engage her, she will only have the choice the disengage herself. I believe her to be this intelligent.

 

For what it's worth, this does not sound like a marriage that is over, just one that needs to be worked on.

Heck no, it was not my ex. Just someone II met (or did she meet me?) at an event about 4 months ago. She was very flirty (I guess I was myself - too cool for school (DAMN IT! Why CAN'T I BE LIKE THAT WITH MY W?!) We called and texted each other for a couple of weeks. Wife overheard me talking to her when I got home (we talked for good 2 hours). There was nothing. One lunch afterward; I did not feel like having any type of a relationship w her - she wanted one thing and that's not what I envisioned.

 

 

What do you mean by "once you don't engage her, she will disengage"? (Man, you women are so complicated!!!) (I am in a great mood today??? WOW - first time in a long time!)

[WhyHope]

BTW, still did not go up to bed... Have to finish smth for work

[Gunny376]

Warning ~ I'm posting this directly toward the OP. It may get kind of long.

 

"Get in, sit down, shut up and grab a hold!! We're going to white-knuckle this bitch to the bottom"

 

Your not going to like what I'm about to post. But, I've been through one divorce and one a break-up of a LTR of six and a half years.

 

I've read and studied and still doing so? Every book I can get my hands on about dating, mating, relationships, intimacy, seduction, attraction, marriage, men and women.

 

Why? Because my divorce was the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off in my personal life ~ mentally, psychologically, emotionally, financially. My divorce was the ~ mentally, psychologically, emotionally, financially ~ equivalent of Hurricane Katrina.

 

Flash forward years later once I retired from the Marines? All of the old ghost of the past came a haunting. And I had a world of hurt come down on me in the form of depression, anxiety, hyper-awareness, hyper-attentiveness etc.

 

I've never been to law school, but I've a 'so-called' step brother that has and known others that have.

 

One that went to a non-NBA sixth tier school had their instructor ask them on the first day of class in their first class "How many of you are married?"

 

Approximately half raised their hands. She then told them that if they completed law school? Half of those that were married? Would be divorced before they graduated.

 

Now you may or may not have ever served in the military? But you and I have do have one thing in common (as does trippi1432, and others here)

 

Having to have dealt with extreme, un-freaking-believable-un-real STRESS!

The "Paper Chase" is not easy. Nor is graduating and going to work in any aspect in the field of law. Nor is starting your own private practice, (the amount of monthly income my SB has to generate just to keep his practice open each month ~ before he draws a single dime himself is unreal!)

 

Add in a wife and two young and small children? Paying the bills, doctor's appointments, after school activities, in-school activities, child care, ..................................

 

You've guys have stress topped on top of stress on top of stress.

 

And your coming apart at the seams.

 

I ordinary would never tell you to move out ~ because that's the end of most marriages.

 

But in your case? Your at the end anyway the way your going. You are literally driving her away from you and from your marriage. Your making and breaking every single rule in the book when it comes to being attractive to your mate.

 

Jealousy? Granted you may have legions of women attracted to you? After you? But with this one woman that your married to? That you love?

 

You lack the self confidence to fend off any and all other potential lovers with her? Speaks volumes of your lack of self-confidence, anxiety, etc. You're literally are at least subconsciously setting yourself, your marriage up for failure ~ that is to say to say your self sabotaging yourself, your life and your marriage.

 

Why? I don't know? It could be that you feel unworthy of her love, her devotion, her love ~ or that of any woman? Or anyone. It could be something in and from your childhood.

 

Or you mad as in mentally so?

 

No.

 

But you do have issues with anger, jealousy, built up stress ( getting into and through college, student loans, financial aid, getting into law school, getting through law school as in her being the bread winner ~ your trying to get your practice off the ground, being a good husband, father, finding a place to live, buying a home, paying the mortgage, the monthly living expenses etc.)

 

The two of you need to just sit down and simply come to an agreement about co-parenting, visitation, being there for each other as persons and individuals mentally, psychologically, emotionally, financially etc.

 

The two of you need to separate ~ so you can get back together down the road. You need to make a pact, to learn and read about relationships, how to be romantic, to learn about how to understand each others needs. To come to understand what each other's "Love Language" is and "Love Map" is.

 

You need to make a pact ~ that the separation is about you giving her the space she needs, getting off her back, your learning how to quit being so jealous (Seriously with this one alone knowing what I know? I could steal her away from you! If you don't back off ~ some dude with 1/5th of what I know and have learned will steal her away from you.)

 

I had a buddy on the Drill Field at Parris Island, who use to come home each night and walk into his garage and put his Drill Instructor Cover (Smokey The Bear ~ Park Ranger type hat) in its form (a piece of wood made to keep its shape) and hang it in the garage before he went into the house.

 

I told him, "Or you freaking nuts! What's the matter with you!"

 

You see there made out of felt, and do not react well with water nor humidity ~ which are both abundant in South Carolina.

 

The Marine Corps issues you two when you graduate from Drill Instructor School. After that? You have to replace them out of pocket at the cost of about $150 each (at the time).

 

He told me, "When I come home ~ when I can get home! I leave work at work, and that's my way of doing it!"

 

You need to leave your work? At work! Your home isn't a courtroom, your wife is not your adversary.

 

The bottom line is? Do you want to be "Right" or do you want to be happy?

 

You need to see a professional counselor ~ preferably a psychologist.

 

You need to deal with your stress, anger, insecurities, and jealousy issues and you need to do this regardless whether your current marriage survives or not. If not your only destined to repeat the same over and over in future relationships.

 

Arguing? Let me what arguing is when it comes to couples? Its each other trying to express what their emotional, physical, mental, , pyschological needs are? Its saying "This what I want and need to feel and be love and to feel loved by you!"

 

Your saying that your "tha' man" when it comes to high profile divorce cases because you have a reputation as being a hard-corps @zz? Speak volumes.

 

That's all well and good at the office ~ but isn't worth spit at home!

 

You've a right to feel and be proud of your accomplishments both educationally and professionally. The nation wide high graduation rate is only about 65-67%.

 

The drop out rate for undergraduates is unreal. Only 40% of high school graduates even attend college, and only half of those complete a four year degree in anything.

 

Of those that do? Most end up working jobs that they could have gotten without a college degree.

 

For you to have even gotten into law school let alone graduate? Speaks volumes ~ and we're talking encyclopedia volumes ~ about your determination and dedication.

 

Your wife is sending you messages ~ and that message is that she doesn't necessarily want to divorce you ~ but if your happy @zz doesn't get a grip? She will.

 

And what you see as flirtatious? May just be her natural personality. I know a woman that I meet when I was in college. I worked with her on campus.

 

She's 60 something ~ and "I swear" she's the very image of the most flirtatious "Miss Scarlet" I ever saw?

 

I saw her in 'ChinaMart" the other day and she was just as brimming, smiling, outgoing, ~ and yes flirtatious" as she was the first day I ever meet her fifteen years ago. And she's that way with any and everyone ~ man or woman ~ that she meets.

 

And God its been years and years since I've last ran into her. But she treated me as though it hadn't been a half hour let alone a year!

 

You need to get your happy-self into IC, because its you and your on insecurities that's destroying your marriage.

 

Your wife is on the side of the railroad waving red flags, yelling and screaming, shouting out loud, setting off flares telling you to get off of the train tracks because there's a train coming!

 

And you're not listening!

 

There is such a thing as having "common sense" educated out of you.

 

There is such a thing as "paralysis by analysis"

[Windsurf66]

Her time limit: If you do not move out - I will file. (Where the hell is the logic in that?!).

She, for the first time, threatened that SHE will move out if I don't (this Sunday). I don't think she is crazy enough to move the kids to a different place (but she did say that "they will be happy with all new stuff and all new toys" WOW!)

She said that she lied (there were other times that she did - to keep me sane. "You always react like a knucklehead. There is nothing." Now - I actually feel that there is nothing.

 

If you minimise the interaction with yr wife and stop bugging her, why is there still a need for either one of you to move out? I feel its very disrespectful of a wife to keep asking her husband to move out and be away from the children. Does she have the right? If she is not happy and wants out, go ahead for a divorce. Why prolong the torture by using incremental steps towards a divorce? When you are away from her, you will start thinking what she is up to every min you are away from her.

 

Well, for the lies, my opinion is that a spouse should not use white lies to keep the other sane, but he/she should use proper actions to build trust in the marriage, e.g. not lying to you in order to go out with another guy, why not just invite you along together with the guy if there is nothing to hide? Or why not just be honest and said there is a prior appointment. Sorry but lying is also disrespectful towards you and the marriage.

 

Perhaps you are a beta male and can accept such things. For me personally, no way I can accept disrespect.

[trippi1432]

Heck no, it was not my ex. Just someone II met (or did she meet me?) at an event about 4 months ago. She was very flirty (I guess I was myself - too cool for school (DAMN IT! Why CAN'T I BE LIKE THAT WITH MY W?!) We called and texted each other for a couple of weeks. Wife overheard me talking to her when I got home (we talked for good 2 hours). There was nothing. One lunch afterward; I did not feel like having any type of a relationship w her - she wanted one thing and that's not what I envisioned.

 

 

What do you mean by "once you don't engage her, she will disengage"? (Man, you women are so complicated!!!) (I am in a great mood today??? WOW - first time in a long time!)

 

Actually, women are only as complicated as the company they keep (or are married to)....come on!! So, there was a recent OW....yes, if I were your wife, I would be upset as well. And the comment in bold above is to reference that it takes two people to argue.....you, being the attorney, it's in your nature...and I get the feeling you enjoy it a bit. If you would disengage the argument by stopping or leaving the room once it starts, she would also disengage the argument. She is allowed to have a perspective about the relationship as well.

 

Read Gunny's post below.....it's very enlightening and Gunny has been on these boards for a long time, one of the most knowledgeable posters here.