Stuck!

[WhyHope]

I will talk about the morning more a little later. Here it comes - I re-evaluated the way I talked to her last night - I was kissing her ass and it was unnatural - gotta change that.

 

GUNNY: BIL quit smoking and drinking (he was never a heavy drinker) under the pressure from his W (actually from MIL). First two years of our relationship we lived about 5 miles away from them (MIL and SIL) - man, those were the times. Now - they are within walking distance. Unless we move, if we reconcile, this marriage will not work.

 

As for my W - yes, she is a tease, attention whore, but she is also a good gal. Did they fill her head with a ton of BS? Absolutely. I am not willing to give up just yet.

[SRV]

She just came in - grabbed a pillow and headed downstairs. No words exchanged. EFF it. I am tired of "making up". I will be cordially nice, but will not step over myself to do anything. BTW - women - I can not recall ONCE in our relationship when she said "sorry". I always was the first to "budge". Hated conflicts. She did make up, but not by admitting anything, but by just being nice and trying to get on my good side.

 

 

I do have to change myself - I do deserve (EVEN I for crying out loud) MORE!

 

She displays classic passive aggressive behavior. Anything in her past that you might have missed, past relationships, abuse, how did you meet, how did she treat her previous boyfriends? You answer might be therein.

[WhyHope]

She displays classic passive aggressive behavior. Anything in her past that you might have missed, past relationships, abuse, how did you meet, how did she treat her previous boyfriends? You answer might be therein.

 

She was in a relationship where her BF did physically abuse her. What do you mean by that though? Explain please

[WhyHope]

As for this morning... Man, this is hard. My oldest asked to go to daycare, I told the youngest to start getting ready. He asked to bring his toy w him (gameboy). W never let them take it w them to daycare. I said that you can't. He throws a hissy fit - tosses the game. I held him by his arm and tried to tell him (CALMLY) that he should not do that. W is right next to me, grabs him and lets him cry it out. I ask him to start getting ready - "I wanna go w Mommy". I insist - W starts PUSHING the crying kid towards me "Go, go, take him!" To that I calmly respond by just taking my oldest and coming back home. Afterward, I told W that this is not a way to handle things, if she or I decided on the way to discipline, then BOTH should stick to that way. She starts saying that I am "unloving" of my kids, and actually said that I am "abusive" - because I held his arm. "You can't control your anger". I swear, I wasn't angry at all. "What do you want to do?" I said: "Whatever you want". I want to D. "Ok, I am against it, but since that's what you want that's fine. I said that I want 50% of everything. She kinda flips. Then I call her and reiterate my point that we have to have a united front on raising the kids - whether we r D or not. She says "You can have it all" as long as you leave.

 

Again, at all times I was calm. But damn, this is difficult. What I have decided though, I will not let anyone walk all over me. Suggestions on improving that?

[WhyHope]

Forgot to add, when she said that I am unloving, I said that by letting the kids do whatever they want (and she does) - she avoids conflicts ONLY because that suits HER better. Therefore she is the one that's unloving. Also, asked her whether HER father is unloving, since HE disciplines his kids and NOT allows them do everything.

 

Her response: "Ok, I am unloving, all I do is care about myself."

 

D or not in her mind?

[trippi1432]

Forgot to add, when she said that I am unloving, I said that by letting the kids do whatever they want (and she does) - she avoids conflicts ONLY because that suits HER better. Therefore she is the one that's unloving. Also, asked her whether HER father is unloving, since HE disciplines his kids and NOT allows them do everything.

 

Her response: "Ok, I am unloving, all I do is care about myself."

 

D or not in her mind?

 

WhyHope,

 

My suggestion is to go back and read from Gunny's post down all over again...(BTW - Thanks Gunny...I'm learning as I go too ).

 

WhyHope - My first marriage, I had the MIL from he**.....she ran both of her boys and anything they did was fine, their wives should not complain. One smoked weed and drank all the time and beat his wife....the MIL told the wife she deserved it. Her other son, my ex, drank all the time, screwed around and stayed gone for days at a time...guess what, I supposedly had no right to complain. We wives were to just get with the program and accept that is how it should be. Honestly, I was devastated when my ex left because as bad as he treated me, I loved him (bad childhood....now I know why I put up with that and I will never do that again). Best thing that came from that divorce, I got rid of the Wicked Witch MIL from He**.

 

Do not give your wife any ammunition with the kids. She offered to let you have it all....run with it....tell her you are going to start drawing up the D papers and make sure the MIL knows about it as well. If there is no EA or PA going on and she is just playing a game to teach you a lesson, you might see some back-peddling real quick.

 

That is when you need to stand your ground and tell her that the only way the marriage will work is if the MIL, SIL, BIL and everyone else stay out of your marriage. A marriage is two people working together equally, mutual respect for each other, listening to each others perspectives and finding common and equal ground to stand on....balance. You are exactly right on the common front with the kids...stand your ground there. Tell her this.....every time you talk to her repeat it to her verbatim, no matter what she says...stick to this.

 

If that doesn't wake her up....at least come out on the good side. On the part of her being an attention whore...a lot of people are, I don't think that bears weight on the real problems with the marriage...it actually just shows low self-esteem on her part (could be left over from the physical abuse from her previous relationship)...that's something that can easily be fixed by a husband, but you have to work on the marriage part first and how that plays out.

 

In my opinion, your wife is really stuck in the middle due to the MIL...but you are not going to be able to make her see that. She is going to have to see that for herself...sometimes even grown adults need to tell their family to back off (I've had to with my own mother lately, this is MY life and I will live it how I see fit and this is MY house, you don't make my payments so don't tell me what I need to do). Even when our parents mean well, there is a time when they need to let go and let their children run their own lives....looks like your wife isn't there yet.

[summerautumn]

Hey whyhope,

 

My heart goes out to you. I come here rarely, but I was reading your story today and yesterday, it is painful for me to read, let alone imagine being in it the way you are now.

 

You've gotten advice, and mine is the opposite. The power struggle you are in now with your wife is just obliterating you both. The sucky part is that because both of you are stubborn, and now even more so, your actions are further driving you apart. Seems like a catch-22. The path you are going on right now will end with divorce, and deep down you know it. You know what the advice of someone who is in a quick sand - stop moving. But by that doesn't mean resign indignantly. You really care about your family, and this is breaking your heart. Yet with your mindset you will not get out of this. Or you will get a divorce. But even then, the pain will remain. This woman is the mother of your children. Wait until you have very little say on the day to day stuff, then you will really feel powerless.

 

You have to radically accept. Accept yourself as you are now, accept your wife, accept the in laws, accept that you really don't have control, accept that your one thing that you truly care about is falling apart now. I know, a very tough pill to swallow. You may be thinking, how is that even possible? It is, the only thing is whether you let go sooner or later. I have been in those situations of resistance, and what I have learned is that either I will accept through reaching the threshold of my pain, or I will learn other ways of being less stubborn. That's the true learning. Not easy, I will not bs you. But doable. I have witnessed it with a friend who is going through divorce right now, and I am telling you, it is possible.

 

What you will gain from this approach is your sanity and peace. The power struggle will break you, no one is strong enough to see their kids suffer for it, and not break apart.

 

My suggestion is to read one book - Power of Now, by Tolle. Especially the chapter on relationships.

 

Let go. All else is insanity.

[SRV]

Forgot to add, when she said that I am unloving, I said that by letting the kids do whatever they want (and she does) - she avoids conflicts ONLY because that suits HER better. Therefore she is the one that's unloving. Also, asked her whether HER father is unloving, since HE disciplines his kids and NOT allows them do everything.

 

Her response: "Ok, I am unloving, all I do is care about myself."

 

D or not in her mind?

 

You're a lawyer right?

 

This is the time that you might want to start documenting each and every interaction that you have with her and the kids. It would not hurt to consult an attorney to get a different perspective. You do not want it to come back and bite you, especially as it seems that things are going south in a hurry.

[WhyHope]

Summer and Trippi:

 

Not answering too much of your comments - here is what happened after I posted.

 

FIL called me in. He does NOT agree w W's behavior; he said that I am actually right. BUT - the only way he sees this marriage surviving is if I move out and let her have her space. To make the long story short - I actually KINDA agree - IF W is looking to see changes from me (and doesn't want D) then by moving out and standing on my 2 feet - she will see those changes. IF she runs away to OM - be it. I gotta get up anyway. I will let this R go. May be that will save the M.

 

Afterward I called W. Quietly and calmly explained the following: I do want to save this marriage, BUT can not change your mind with what I am doing now. I am tired of the power struggle(Summer ). Now, honey, you HAVE cheatED on me. "How?" By having an EA (and gave her a definition of it). "Oh, I can have friends. We talk about things. I do that w a lot of people" "Honey, I am not trying to convince u, THIS IS HOW I FEEL. YOU - cheated!" In order for me to rebuild the trust in you, I need time. "I have nothing for you. You are just the father of our kids. I feel nothing." "I understand. I was not there for you. How can you feel anything for me?" "You asked me so many times before for a chance, but you never did what you promised" (To that - I did not even know what to say - I did not ask her for forgiveness OR even a chance. I was just stating facts. R u looking to forgive me, hon? - that was the thought in my head). Here is the offer that I have - I can move out and be on my own; if I am able to show you that I am ok, then we will work or I can do the in house separation." Her response: "I will think about it". (Interpretation - I will discuss it w MIL and SIL" hahahaha.

 

Anyways, the past two-three days - I have been OK, listen I still have my downs but they are not bad. I will have to do what she wants NO MATTER whether we are together or D. So, WHATEVER! I WANT TO TAKE HER AMMO AWAY FROM HER! If I change the things that she wants changed and she still wants D - listen, then I have done everything and I will not be ashamed to look into my kids eyes later on in life.

 

As for ILs - here is my plan. Kiss their ass and agree w everything... for now. Once I am in - do everything in my power to slowly push her away from them. HOUSE further away - would be a start. If I am OUT - then there is definitely no reason for me to even be nice to them. I WILL TELL THEM WHAT THEY ARE. And I will let my kids know. Will I be an *********? Yes, but I am tired of being walked all over.

 

As a side note - there is definitely no PA or EA. I just know.

[WhyHope]

You're a lawyer right?

 

This is the time that you might want to start documenting each and every interaction that you have with her and the kids. It would not hurt to consult an attorney to get a different perspective. You do not want it to come back and bite you, especially as it seems that things are going south in a hurry.

 

 

Here is what is NOT going to happen in any scenario: I will not go after $$$; I will get at the very least shared legal custody and at least 2 overnight visits per week. NO MATTER WHAT. I will not be documenting. (Even though that is what I do advise my clients) Why not? I will not create a spectacle out of my EVEN failed family in the Court of Law. W is NOT a monster - I will, if it comes down to it, get my time with the kids.

[WhyHope]

Just re-read what I wrote - kinda rambling. Bottom line - I am OK. I can't worry about her anymore. I have to worry about myself. As of right now - I am not bringing to this R anything that would allow me to make demands from her. Do I want to demand? Yes, I do. therefore, I better get my butt in gear.

[SRV]

I did not by any stretch insinuate that she is a monster. The person that shows up in court, your 'wife' might not be the person you thought you knew. Trust, please read up the numerous stories on the forum and educate and see what I am mean.

[trippi1432]

Interesting that the FIL is on your side, but shows he is whipped by his wife too..your MIL. Wow!!

 

I think that you are getting your head together better now....keep working on that.....the only thing that I will say, and this was advice from a Divorce Busting Coach (spent $250 for this advice), it's easier to save the marriage and work on the relationship while both parties are under the same roof.

 

I say this because how is she going to see the positive changes if you are living somewhere else and can you handle that with you out of the picture, that she may date someone....even if an EA or PA is not going on?

 

I also will say that our son had the biggest issues with his father moving in and then back out and then back in again....it confuses the child. He actually asked me one day if his dad was moved out for good because he was getting tired of him coming and going.

 

Just info.....

[WhyHope]

I did not by any stretch insinuate that she is a monster. The person that shows up in court, your 'wife' might not be the person you thought you knew. Trust, please read up the numerous stories on the forum and educate and see what I am mean.

 

 

I don't have to read. I know. As I said before, I know that the Court at the very least will give me 2 overnights per week.

[WhyHope]

Interesting that the FIL is on your side, but shows he is whipped by his wife too..your MIL. Wow!!

 

I think that you are getting your head together better now....keep working on that.....the only thing that I will say, and this was advice from a Divorce Busting Coach (spent $250 for this advice), it's easier to save the marriage and work on the relationship while both parties are under the same roof.

 

I say this because how is she going to see the positive changes if you are living somewhere else and can you handle that with you out of the picture, that she may date someone....even if an EA or PA is not going on?

 

I also will say that our son had the biggest issues with his father moving in and then back out and then back in again....it confuses the child. He actually asked me one day if his dad was moved out for good because he was getting tired of him coming and going.

 

Just info.....

 

 

I totally agree, but I do not want to impose my will onto her. (No more headbutting). If she is not willing to save the marriage - so be it. I do not think that she will insist on me moving out UNLESS I continue to bug her.

 

Taking the oldest to the movies tonight. W was actually very pleasant to me - even though attempted to say that "that's where we differ - she lets the kids be their own people by letting them decide what they want and I force my will onto them" I simply stated that no, I only force it in situation where it is important to do so AND if she was on board we could "STEER" the kids towards the decisions that we are looking them to make. That was that

 

As for MIL being on my side... I don't know, I think he is on the side of keeping the marriage together. He is a doormat, sorry to say that. He is the nicest person, but he has no voice in that family. NONE. I feel that that is what MIL and SIL are trying to turn me into for W. BIL is already that way. But I am too strong for it. Too stubborn. I love my W and family, but I know that it doesn't need a shell of me. What they need is the Head of the Family.

[summerautumn]

Summer and Trippi:

 

Not answering too much of your comments - here is what happened after I posted.

 

FIL called me in. He does NOT agree w W's behavior; he said that I am actually right. BUT - the only way he sees this marriage surviving is if I move out and let her have her space. To make the long story short - I actually KINDA agree - IF W is looking to see changes from me (and doesn't want D) then by moving out and standing on my 2 feet - she will see those changes. IF she runs away to OM - be it. I gotta get up anyway. I will let this R go. May be that will save the M.

 

Afterward I called W. Quietly and calmly explained the following: I do want to save this marriage, BUT can not change your mind with what I am doing now. I am tired of the power struggle(Summer ). Now, honey, you HAVE cheatED on me. "How?" By having an EA (and gave her a definition of it). "Oh, I can have friends. We talk about things. I do that w a lot of people" "Honey, I am not trying to convince u, THIS IS HOW I FEEL. YOU - cheated!" In order for me to rebuild the trust in you, I need time. "I have nothing for you. You are just the father of our kids. I feel nothing." "I understand. I was not there for you. How can you feel anything for me?" "You asked me so many times before for a chance, but you never did what you promised" (To that - I did not even know what to say - I did not ask her for forgiveness OR even a chance. I was just stating facts. R u looking to forgive me, hon? - that was the thought in my head). Here is the offer that I have - I can move out and be on my own; if I am able to show you that I am ok, then we will work or I can do the in house separation." Her response: "I will think about it". (Interpretation - I will discuss it w MIL and SIL" hahahaha.

 

Anyways, the past two-three days - I have been OK, listen I still have my downs but they are not bad. I will have to do what she wants NO MATTER whether we are together or D. So, WHATEVER! I WANT TO TAKE HER AMMO AWAY FROM HER! If I change the things that she wants changed and she still wants D - listen, then I have done everything and I will not be ashamed to look into my kids eyes later on in life.

 

As for ILs - here is my plan. Kiss their ass and agree w everything... for now. Once I am in - do everything in my power to slowly push her away from them. HOUSE further away - would be a start. If I am OUT - then there is definitely no reason for me to even be nice to them. I WILL TELL THEM WHAT THEY ARE. And I will let my kids know. Will I be an *********? Yes, but I am tired of being walked all over.

 

As a side note - there is definitely no PA or EA. I just know.

 

So let me get this: you emotionally blackmailed her. Nice.

[WhyHope]

So let me get this: you emotionally blackmailed her. Nice.

 

Hmmmm... Not sure what you mean. But even if I did - I am NOT sorry! Why? I care about my feelings too! She has been blackmailing, mailing back or whatever else with and all over my feelings for the past 8 months. Actually according to her since the beginning of our R. So... Forget it!

Now... After the talk - had another discussion w W about taking my oldest to the movies. And W was actually understanding and nice almost. Did touch up - very civilly - about our "different" outlook on the philosophies of raising kids. I tried to explain that we are not really different. Calmly. And she calmly agreed.

 

Came home, kid was ready and excited - W was ok. A lot nicer and calmer then last couple of days. Took the kid to the movies - Toy Story 3. Go and watch it better then the others! What's so significant about me taking my kid to the movies - she was always scared of the movie theater. Today I offered and she really wanted to go. We loved it. She laughed the loudestin the theater and commented on every scene. When we got home - I put her to bed. Youngest was in bed w W. I could not sleep there. Had to turn the light on looking for a change of clothes - and W did NOT bitch at me like she usually would.

 

 

Predictions as to what W will decide by sunday - the decision day? (Mine - nothing will be said or discussed until the next falling out). For some reason, I felt that she was actually concerned almost when I pretty much agreed that we have to separate like SHE wants to.

 

Mood overall for the day - good. NC/LC success - none. Bugged her? Not really. Emotional control - I will give myself an A-. Still can do better, but was cool and actually thought of her reactions b4 talking.

 

Sorry 4 misspelings - I am on my blackberry

[txsilkysmoothe]

Hi WhyHope,

 

LOL, have you considered moving in with the in-laws? You'll be right across the street from your kids. The IL's will be able to see all the positive changes you're making. You may change their mind about you. Keep your enemies close.?.

 

I saw Toy Story 3, also. It was a great little movie.

[Gunny376]

Hi WhyHope,

 

LOL, have you considered moving in with the in-laws? You'll be right across the street from your kids. The IL's will be able to see all the positive changes you're making. You may change their mind about you. Keep your enemies close.?.

 

I saw Toy Story 3, also. It was a great little movie.

 

A brilliant idea from the mind of a brilliant Lady! :lmao: :lmao: :cool:

[Gunny376]

Hi WhyHope,

 

LOL, have you considered moving in with the in-laws? You'll be right across the street from your kids. The IL's will be able to see all the positive changes you're making. You may change their mind about you. Keep your enemies close.?.

 

I saw Toy Story 3, also. It was a great little movie.

 

There's a lot of things that I love about women (and some that I don't) ~ but one of the qualitites that I love and admire most?

 

Is the way they think ~ and perceive things differently from men ~ along with the diffrent perspective they bring to a relationship.

[Gunny376]

***WARNING*** This may get kind of long ~ in that I'm addressing the OP

 

Is becoming more and more apparent that the DW (aka stubborn) comes from a family where it is the woman that plays the more dominant role in the relationship.

 

This is quite common these days ~ and becoming more so with each passing day largely in part because of NOW, the women's liberation movement, and even worse the Feminazi's movement.

 

Your choice is simple? You can get with the program and become a supplicating shadow of a man? Or you can get gone? You can choose to either be a 'beta" male and stay in your marriage, or be an Alpha male and strike out on your own.

 

Among many other reasons, this is why my last two LTR's ended and failed. In both I perceived that there were three entities ~ her, me, and "us" and it was "us" that made the major decisions. (I was wrong in that sometimes a man just has to "man-up" and take the lead)

 

My marriage failed for a number of reasons, as do so many men's marriages.

 

The first and foremost "no" man under the age of thirty should even consider getting married. To begin with, women are about 'ten years' more emotionally more mature than men are. Around age thirty, men through experience and knowledge gained from such begin to catch up some what with women.

 

Prior to the age of thirty, men simply lack the emotional, communications skills, experience, relationship skill set to successfully pull off a LTR?

 

Most any and all women are / or can be manipulative. Its like chess ~ except they're five or six moves ahead of you when it comes to being in a relationship.

 

Arguing with a woman is like trying to argue with a hog! It accomplishes nothing ~ and annoys the hog. NEVER and I mean NEVER argue with a woman! You're going to lose each and every time ~ and can never win.

 

That's because men have a need to make logical and rational sense ~ while most women although can certainly be logical and rational ~ tend to blend that in with their emotional side of the their being ~ which men are sorely lacking in.

 

That is to say that women are not only rational, and logical ~ they are also tuned very much so to their emotional ~ (aka they feel and sense they're way through life) side ~ where as men haven't even begun to go there.

 

My first and only marriage failed for a lot or reasons ~ primarily I married way too young, was too inexperienced in cross-gendered communication, lacking in relationship coping skills, was in the Marine Corps a complete Alpah Male. Worked long hours, was in the Marine Corps yada~yada.

 

My last LTR worked in so long as it was all about her wants and needs, her family, her son, her job and career, her mother, her sister, her brother, her friends, etc.

 

I lived with her basically for six and half years ~ but all my stuff was stowed in the barracks. I had one little drawer in the dresser in which to stow my keys, wallet and such. 90% of everything I owned was on base in my barracks room.

 

She as so much as told me that the reason her marriage failed? Was because she wanted it all her way?

 

Everything was fine and good until I stood up and spoke up about my needs and wants were? That's when we broke up! I moved back home ~ and she and I had a two and half year long distance relationship because I was in college full time on the GI bill and she was a school teacher. She would come down to Alabama from North Carolina during the summer and Spring Break. In between? We'd meet halfway in Atlanta, Augusta, Charleston, Savannah etc.

 

My point being WH (WhyHope) is that you've got a 10% chance of reconciling with her (0% chance in so long as your living across from the IL's and they're in your business)

 

The SIL and MIL are trying to turn you into a castrated, supplicating, enoch as they have successfully done with the FIL and BIL ~ Your FIL is actually telling you to get out while you can!

 

Least you suffer his fate!

 

Decisiveness?

 

Taking absolute and complete control of your life and happiness. Being responsible for such. Not depending upon another for your self validation and measure of self worth.

 

I've been where your at ~ there and gone again ~ twice!

 

That is to say I've been where your at ~ gone back again ~ and come back again.

 

For the experience? I'd kick her @zz to the curb in a heart beat! By the time she got done with me? She would respect me!

 

Were it me? I wouldn't text her, call her, spy on her, check up on her, give a good GD about who she was scroggin' I would or could care less if she's having money problems, going to pay-day or title loans shops, if her car had a dead battery, whatever.

 

My XHEX (less my children who are grown and on their own) could be broke down on I-10 in the middle of the Arizona desert ~ and I could care less! (Sounds like a personal problem to me)

I'm not going to sit here and say that I was the best husband nor father there ever was?

 

But you know what? I was far, far, far from being the worse!

[summerautumn]

Hmmmm... Not sure what you mean.

 

WH, what I meant is that you accused your w of an affair, when you knew that isn't true. It is and intense form of manipulation. From your later post it sounds like it worked temporarily. You are so afraid of losing, it is beyond scary to you. I totally get that.

 

I am sorry you are going through this. I am not pointing this out to criticize "you", I am pointing out the dysfunction of the situation.

 

Take care.

[RedDawn]

Hey Counsellor

 

Have you hired a PI yet? The same thing that you would advise your own clients to do? Have you hired your own pitbull attorney? She is def in an A, a physical affair. The only recons I've seen work on either MB or SI when you had an active cheater was when the BH got hard evidence and outted her to friends, family, work and everyone that means anything to her her. It's counter-intuitive but it works. You will def know the truth and can move on one way or the other.

 

HIRE A PI TODAY!!!!!

[WhyHope]

Hi WhyHope,

 

LOL, have you considered moving in with the in-laws? You'll be right across the street from your kids. The IL's will be able to see all the positive changes you're making. You may change their mind about you. Keep your enemies close.?.

 

I saw Toy Story 3, also. It was a great little movie.

 

You think they did not offer it? I think I would actually rather live in a jail cell then w them. Lol. So, can you analyze what she said and what she actually means?

[WhyHope]

WH, what I meant is that you accused your w of an affair, when you knew that isn't true. It is and intense form of manipulation. From your later post it sounds like it worked temporarily. You are so afraid of losing, it is beyond scary to you. I totally get that.

 

I am sorry you are going through this. I am not pointing this out to criticize "you", I am pointing out the dysfunction of the situation.

 

Take care.

 

I only accused after I had hard evidence of an EA. And I know exactly why she got close to him and that it was not a PA. She is friendly w guys. She is "one of the boys". At least that's the way she paints herself. She is also too scared of public perception to do anything stupid. Plus she has no time for it. I am sure that there is and there was no PA. As for PI - I may put a GPS tracker in her car. Just to "verify"