Stuck!

[WhyHope]

Hey Counsellor

 

Have you hired a PI yet? The same thing that you would advise your own clients to do? Have you hired your own pitbull attorney? She is def in an A, a physical affair. The only recons I've seen work on either MB or SI when you had an active cheater was when the BH got hard evidence and outted her to friends, family, work and everyone that means anything to her her. It's counter-intuitive but it works. You will def know the truth and can move on one way or the other.

 

HIRE A PI TODAY!!!!!

 

Why is she "definitely" in a physical A? What makes u think that. Experience here? Or the recons that were described here? Have you ever considered that the threads that OP did not continue after a month are also happy recons?

[tnttim]

It doesn't matter if she's cheating or not. You're separated, and you want her back. I am reconciling with my W as of Dec.

 

You have to think, act and speak counter intuitively. You also have to treat her as if she was a prospective date. That means everything that happened in the past, stays in the past.

 

Gunny asked me to list the E books that helped me out.

 

Stop Your Divorce by Homer MacDonald. This book was my bible from October to December and I credit the information in it to getting my W on the fence between the OM and myself.

 

Super Sex Power Magnetism by CR James. I use this e book now and will continue to use the principals in it for the rest oh my life. Its works on my W, your W and any woman for that matter.

[WhyHope]

It doesn't matter if she's cheating or not. You're separated, and you want her back. I am reconciling with my W as of Dec.

 

You have to think, act and speak counter intuitively. You also have to treat her as if she was a prospective date. That means everything that happened in the past, stays in the past.

 

Gunny asked me to list the E books that helped me out.

 

Stop Your Divorce by Homer MacDonald. This book was my bible from October to December and I credit the information in it to getting my W on the fence between the OM and myself.

 

Super Sex Power Magnetism by CR James. I use this e book now and will continue to use the principals in it for the rest oh my life. Its works on my W, your W and any woman for that matter.

 

 

How far "in" were you? What were her problems with you? (Reading the book by McDonald now - kinda choppy)... Wow, just finished it. The book itself. Hmmmm. Honestly - 100 pages of the same stuff regurgitated over and over again. I got the point. But, may be I am wrong. Counter-intuitive action is what everybody seem to preach.

 

I feel that every relationship is the same and is different at the same time. Bottom line, we (dumpees) have to leave them alone but let them know that we are there. Depending on how much we are willing to take - we may win them back. I am upset, but want to move on. Seriously. I do. I love her, but can't live like this either.

 

Found a "pre-D" list: In bullet points - do I have to sell the house; how do I show that he is not ok; I am scared of him - he is checking my cell and my email; and other non-sense... Whatever. That actually kinda hurt.

Edited June 19, 2010 by WhyHope

[Tea]

Hello fellow counselor!

 

About one year ago, I was done in my relationship. I was tired of my H being co-dependent. I also am a "guy's gal" but, shamefully, reignited a friendship that I thought was just a friend thing, but realize that the communication was excessive during our separation (NOTHING sexual or relationship-y - just excessive for a MW so I ceased that completely).

 

I never thought about having an affair. But, my resentment towards my H at the time made me bitter. I did not want him in the same room with me. I did not want to answer to anybody. I blamed him for EVERYTHING. And, his presence interfered with the contacts I did want to have with ppl who made me feel good.

 

To be fair. I do think YOU were in an EA. You don't have to want it to get physical or hope for it, but you obviously were missing something emotionally and needed an ego-boost. She is probably going through the same thing.

 

I did a lot of self-reflecting. I did not ask my H to move out, but I did tell him that I needed to be left alone and that I would move to a different bedroom. He flipped out. Did everything you did which annoyed me to no end. I felt like screaming "JUST LEAVE ME THE EFF ALONE!!!"

 

We were in MC for this period (approx. 5 mos). He made a lot of positive changes. I was too resentful to even acknowledge it at the time. I really just wanted me time.

 

Little things that bothered me included me being an insomniac, especially while under pressure. My H likes complete silence and darkness in bed. I would lie awake just being angry at him for my inability to move or get ready b/c he would be disturbed. If I went downstairs to watch tv or work, he'd stumble out asking if everything was okay. I know, it's sweet, but at the time, it was SO ANNOYING. Mostly b/c I then felt guilty for waking him, but I was just tired of him being up in my business all the time!

 

His drinking. We're the same age so, yes, we party w/ our friends like we are still in college. His got excessive every time and it got old.

 

His wanting to do EVERYTHING with me. I work 80 hr weeks and any spare time I had we would spend together. Then he would get on me for not "doing more around the house" after I tried to please him by spending time with him.

 

I could tell you what I did since I'm sort of the roll of your wife, but I think it would be best if you heard what my H did (right, not the dumb things he did that pushed me away), bc he is an amazing man.

 

First, when I told him matter-of-factly that I was moving to the spare room, he took the high road and said "no, I'll move to the other room. I love you and will do anything for you. If you want space, I will give it to you if it will save our marriage."

 

Second, he started doing things without me and it made me so happy. We were cordial with each other and he would tell me about his day and what exciting new thing he attempted. VERY UNLIKE him. He became this independent man I wanted to know again! He also didn't force it on me, he only opened up if I asked b/c he didn't want to "intrude" in my space.

 

Third, he really did keep his distance but was supportive of whatever I wanted to do. an example, I needed to get away for a weekend (I had it) and went alone. He bought me items and snacks he thought I would like for my trip and just left a note for me.

 

Finally, his attitude changed. He used to be this negative person that was not a pleasure to be around. Suddenly, (with the help of our MC), his outlook on life changed. On everything! He had such a positive attitude that he was giving ME the pep talks that I used to give him! He also stopped drinking.

 

He inched in slowly. He sent flowers to my office with a card asking me out on a date. He had the time place and location and enclosed the note where I first jotted down my name and number for him when we first met.

 

As for our real issues, we talked them out in MC during this separation period. We talked about EVERYTHING and it made me angry to hear some of the things he said about me. Things got worse before they got better, but, boy, did they get better!

 

I see a lot of the same characteristics in your wife that I could see in myself one year ago. I was done and would have divorced in a heartbeat, but I worked on myself and started reading a lot of philosophy and finding out what I wanted out of my life and relationship. I had to stop blaming my H for things that weren't his fault, but also express what was bothering me before I exploded. I needed to stop being passive aggressive.

 

I started making lists of things that really bothered me. I'd get home, knock on his door, and talk it out calmly, but only one a night. "I am offended when..." "I did not like it when..." "You make me feel...." I also tried to put something positive in there to close the conversation on a good note. I would then go to my "quarters." I'm no angel. He got smart and started his own list too! No expectations though. Just, we are separated, we don't know what's going to happen, maybe it will work out, but not now. Right now, this is one reason why I don't like our relationship and there are other reasons, but only one I will discuss tonight.

 

Finally, it really did help that my H did not move out of the house. He threatened to, but did not. I am very independent and would have stopped having to worry about how to resolve our issues and just move on. Having him around without feeling smothered was better for our M. The key is to really give the space.

 

Perhaps she is in an affair b/c her insistence abt you moving out is very suspicious. I would recommend you give her space so she could continue to talk to whoever the OM is and realize on her own there is no future and become the man she fell in love with on your own. Once you feel good abt yourself again, you can either start working out your problems or leave amicably.

 

I do note you have children. I also think staying would be in their best interest.

 

I hope this helps a little. Good luck

[tojaz]

Wow TEA, that is an absolutely amazing post! I wish i could have had this in my back pocket when my ex first asked me for space. Even a year later I am strongly fighting the urge to send it to her, if no other reason then to show that change IS possible, and to show myself a better way then pressuring her.

 

Thank you for sharing your story.

TOJAZ

[WhyHope]

TEA - THANK YOU!

 

You do sound like her in a lot of ways. And one of the reasons that I do NOT want to move out - I know that she will move on, just to even show to herself that she is INDEPENDENT. I have pressured her too much, and as I said, there is jealousy involved too. I am working on it.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - follow my posts, give advice!

 

BTW, I suck w timing - I used to be so go w it - when to ask for the number, when to ask for that kiss... NOW - I am horrible.

 

I am trying to develop my own life - gym, kids, work, work and more work. And you are right, I have been insisting that her and I spend more time together, I was clingy. Out of love, but still clingy.

 

As for an EA... May be you are right, may be I did have one. Short lived? Yes, but it was still there.

 

I started agreeing with her. I am giving her what she wants - D, Separation, whatever. I will not argue. I would like her back, but I am tired of fighting. She is a girl after all, she needs to be treated like weaker half. (No chauvinistic stuff). Therefore, I think things that are unimportant - I will let her have her way to avoid the fights. Things that are important - I will talk them out with her, not enforce my will or argue my way into getting it my way.

 

Overall the day was good - I let her be, did not bother her. She actually "picked on me"... She tried to start a semi-relationship talk - I agreed w everything she said. And... the R talk just died down. Some of the stuff that she said was kind of hurtful - "you have checked up on me throughout our marriage (BS) - but who cares whether I did or not??? Why would that matter??? Its done its over. No reason to even try to prove her wrong. I just want this BS fighting to die down. I NEED mental tranquility to attack my business. To play w my kids. No reason to fight or argue!

 

I mean - is she a good Mother? Yes? Is she a kind person - yes. Is she smart - yes! Then whatever she comes up with - can not be that horrible.

 

BUT WHAT IF SHE HAS AN A??? So?! She would leave by now or have me leave. She would file. Or she will file in the future. Either way - I would lose. So, no reason to even cloud my thoughts w it.

 

Tea, you found it suspicious that she wants me out - MIL is SET on the idea that that is THE ONLY way for this family to work. W I feel, is following that advice. W cried when I left last time. Next day - she was a cold as ever. Do you think MIL and SIL instructed her how to act?

[trippi1432]

TEA - THANK YOU!

 

You do sound like her in a lot of ways. And one of the reasons that I do NOT want to move out - I know that she will move on, just to even show to herself that she is INDEPENDENT. I have pressured her too much, and as I said, there is jealousy involved too. I am working on it.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - follow my posts, give advice!

 

Tea, you found it suspicious that she wants me out - MIL is SET on the idea that that is THE ONLY way for this family to work. W I feel, is following that advice. W cried when I left last time. Next day - she was a cold as ever. Do you think MIL and SIL instructed her how to act?

 

Hi WhyHope.....Just my two cents that sometimes isn't worth a penny or less...but...I have stated to you many, many times....DO NOT MOVE OUT!!!! Many posters have told you this (including TEA...great advice btw). In my opinion, and by the actions you state here, I don't think she really wants you to move out...there is a power struggle going on....between you and your wife....and it appears that a lot of that is instigated by the MIL.

 

Stay in the home....continue working on you and spending time with the kids....if she wants to get things off her chest...fine, so be it....just listen. Get a journal and write down your feelings in that journal....introspectively....was she right, was she wrong....how do you really see yourself in what she says....what do you see as being untruthful or hurtful in what she says. Then in a day or two, go back and look at it.

 

We are not perfect by any means, no matter what our background. You may even be humbled by your thoughts or you may see the issues that warrant further exploring. I'm not saying be "whipped" by any means....but for the next couple of weeks....do this. You will be amazed at the "ah-ha" moments or at the "okay, that's a problem (red flag)" moments.

 

I feel that you are someone who really loves this woman, not a man who is whipped, but is on his way.....this is what you need to avoid. How about that client you were looking to sign the other day....how did that go?

[WhyHope]

Hi WhyHope.....Just my two cents that sometimes isn't worth a penny or less...but...I have stated to you many, many times....DO NOT MOVE OUT!!!! Many posters have told you this (including TEA...great advice btw). In my opinion, and by the actions you state here, I don't think she really wants you to move out...there is a power struggle going on....between you and your wife....and it appears that a lot of that is instigated by the MIL.

 

Stay in the home....continue working on you and spending time with the kids....if she wants to get things off her chest...fine, so be it....just listen. Get a journal and write down your feelings in that journal....introspectively....was she right, was she wrong....how do you really see yourself in what she says....what do you see as being untruthful or hurtful in what she says. Then in a day or two, go back and look at it.

 

We are not perfect by any means, no matter what our background. You may even be humbled by your thoughts or you may see the issues that warrant further exploring. I'm not saying be "whipped" by any means....but for the next couple of weeks....do this. You will be amazed at the "ah-ha" moments or at the "okay, that's a problem (red flag)" moments.

 

I feel that you are someone who really loves this woman, not a man who is whipped, but is on his way.....this is what you need to avoid. How about that client you were looking to sign the other day....how did that go?

 

 

Trippi: So you think I am on my way to being whipped? Actually I have been kinda whipped - but I chose a stronger partner. She deserves to have an opinion. Joking, joking...

 

I don't think I will move out. Even if she wants to - she can go ahead.

 

As for the client - I wish i could tell you everything about it. Its as I said - part of my hobby - but if I do sign him (currently working on that) I can transform the hobby into a lucrative (very) job "overnight"... And it is glamorous and has to do w smth that I absolutely love. This type of break, if happens, happens once in a lifetime...

 

Again, thanx, hope you are enjoying your weekend. Currently I am enjoying my couch.

[trippi1432]

Trippi: So you think I am on my way to being whipped? Actually I have been kinda whipped - but I chose a stronger partner. She deserves to have an opinion. Joking, joking...

 

Aww, come on WhyHope.....even in the Bible it states that man will love and respect his wife as he loves and respects himself....she's not stronger....you are just as strong. I don't think your wife is trying to "whip" you, I think she is being driven by it due to circumstances...don't let that control your actions....you can see the forest for the trees...be one step ahead.

 

I don't think I will move out. Even if she wants to - she can go ahead.

 

Exactly, good for you!! Don't push her there....let her make her own decision though. If you want to save the marriage, as you have stated, be there....but only be available when the need is there.

 

As for the client - I wish i could tell you everything about it. Its as I said - part of my hobby - but if I do sign him (currently working on that) I can transform the hobby into a lucrative (very) job "overnight"... And it is glamorous and has to do w smth that I absolutely love. This type of break, if happens, happens once in a lifetime...

 

Again, thanx, hope you are enjoying your weekend. Currently I am enjoying my couch.

 

I wish you much luck on the hobby and turning it into something lucrative...that is the entrepreneurial spirit. You will have to tell me the details when you are able to send PM's...would love to hear about it.

 

Sorry about the couch....but I've been there too, invested in a really nice Futon once for the really bad nights.

[Gunny376]

You will have to tell me the details when you are able to send PM's...would love to hear about it.

 

 

Which with seventy something plus post should be about now. You'll have to go to your "My Profile/CP" to "turn it on though.

[Tea]

How is moving out going to help? You already mentioned that it only distanced you more.

 

You moving out will solidify the "great, I'm done now this is an easy break."

 

I apologize in advance for the random thoughts, I am using my phone to type so can't really make it flow.

 

I went out w/ a single girlfriend (ONS type of gal) and she asked me "what do you want? To be single and meet guys in hotel bars for flings? Do you want to date other men for a new relationship? If

so, what do you want in a new one that you do t have now?"

 

it came down to me wanting attn. It sounds really lame, but here I was at

my peak and I felt like H failed to notice who I had become and how I had improved. He was rejecting my advances while others were pursuing me. But, we have an advatage. We fell madly in love at one time and wrote

each other love emails back then.

 

I read them on my own. Thought abt why I loved him and why I disliked him. My pt of view had to shift from "I don't need him, I am much better off alone to do what I want," to "of course we don't need each other, that's what's so great abt us. We are with each other bc we ENJOY each other and bring out the best in each other."

 

the lists came from there: why was he no longer bringing out the best in me? Why did I no longer like being around him?

 

A lot of it was resenting that I always had to think of him. Long work hrs and worry abt HIS dinner (bc I snack all day.). Choosing to go home to spend time with him instead of going to the gym. I felt all my decisions for my personal well being revolved around him and I was missing out.

 

He was upset bc I put career before family. I was upset that he never awknowledged how successful I was becoming.

 

Under the same roof with no questions asked or expectations helpede findy footing. I also accepted that he wasn't the cause of me not doing ALL the things I felt he prevented me from doing (ie gym everyday was certainly not his fault.)

 

I think that the most helpful for me

was awknowledging that we were both successful, attractive ppl that could thrive apart, but in the end, what man would be better that the honorable one I had?

 

Of importance was that I was NOT trying to change him. I just expressed what ideal man I would want to share my life with and I had already decided on wedding day it was him. I wanted HIM back without the nagativity and witha little more vocal appreciation. So H 2.0.

 

Oh, I don't give a darn what MIL thinks. Everybody is different as is every relationship. Indy women adapt to easily to being alone. If brought up, just say "she has her space, I have mine. I would rather set the $ wasted in a second place towards our children and/or divorce settlement. I am not moving out for our kids' sake but will live my life as if she weren't around and encourage her to do the same."

 

Eff them!!

[tnttim]

How far "in" were you? What were her problems with you?

 

I don't what you mean by in, if it was time separated, then 6 months.

 

Most of her problems with me were excuses. IMO her main problem was not being able to communicate with me. Which was something we both worked on. I would always try to solve her problems or I would tell her that she shouldn't have a problem. Then my dumb as* would wonder why she wouldn't talk to me about her problems. The other issue was me not going out on my own and have fun without her. In my mind I set her up to cheat but she made the decision to ultimately do it.

 

If I were you I would start going on dates as soon as you can. No body follows this advice but it is truly the best thing for both of you. I saw an immediate change in her when she found out I was with other women.

[habs53]

I agree with this positive thinking thing your husband did. Good for him to change and win you back. This is the same advice my friend gave me when she made her husband move out. He won her back as well. Staying home would make it easier, but if they left it still is possible. Bring back the person they use to love. But give them the space they need.

[WhyHope]

First about the day. Went and got my D a bike. Then we went riding then to the movies...w W and the youngest. Why? Youngest after the nap "wanted to b with Daddy and Daddy only". W decided to go - just so if the youngest could not sit through the movie - she would take him and drive him home. She walked out w about 20 mins to go and... waited for us. During the date "she picked on me" once... (Smth about me putting things together the wrong way" - and followed it w "Don't touch me" - I usually playfully smack her on the butt or grab her side. To that I replied that I wasn't about to.) Overall - mood was decent (for me) and I did not "nag" her or ask her anything. BTW - today she was supposed to decide which separation is good for her - in home or only me moving out. BIG news - MIL and SIL are on vacation for a week - so only FIL is around. My time to act!

 

TEA - you are the same but of course the circumstances are different somewhat. Why EA? What where you missing?

 

HABS and TNTTIM: Thank you. All I am trying to do is work on myself. Just want to control my emotions and stand my ground on some things.

 

Forgot to add: She went grocery shopping today (before that she said that she will just stop by to get things for the kids) but she ended up buying things for me too. I guess I will have a full fridge at my new place???

[Tea]

 

TEA - you are the same but of course the circumstances are different somewhat. Why EA? What where you missing?

 

 

I don't want to thread jack. Briefly, an old friend (ex from HS & college) reappeared after 10 yrs. I told H of contact and it escalated from a "I have a question...do u remember..." text to "goodmorning!" and everyday contact.

 

I was one month into my separation at this pt. What was missing? My common sense! Actually, it was a perfect storm. It was an easy ego boost w/out effort of a R (1k miles apart, he is married). Until the "you'll always do great" turned into him talking abt how great I was and how I made a diff in his outlook in life. He took interest in my work. I kid myself into thinking I had an old friend back.

 

My H at the time was negative. Conv was hard to keep up w/out some p*ss poor observation abt daily events. Politics consumed him...hebgrasped onto things he had no control over changing just to be angry at the world.

 

I get a text from friend w/ some funny thing that happened and I was

consumed.

 

I had a bit of a non-traditional childhood and friend brought back a lot of memories that I buried in my quest to be better. I met my H when I was far from where I came from. I felt like he didn't quite appreciate what I had overcome.

 

Turns out that these "lost loves" trigger emotional synapsis. But, I don't want to blame my behavior on this. I also don't want to feel like it was an EA bc once I felt the line was crossed w/ a "memory" I set firm boundaries and cut contact after praising my H first.

 

I'm ashamed abt it. Really am. I feel duped but also wonder if I overreacted and he really was just being a friend...not curious enough to ask though! That's OVER.

 

Lots of things were missing in M. High giving down the hall was more of a partnership than a M. We worked through. Lot of things. One of many that came out in MC was that when I talked abt my bad day at work, he would talk abt how I should handle it and/or go on a rant abr how they don't deserve me. I felt like he didn't have confidence in me to properly handle the situation and/or that he couldn't be happy for me for actually enjoying my work (overall) and just be supportive. He said he felt like he was showing he was my #1 fan bc "they don't deserve you." I said "you maker feel like I'm settling when I love my job."

 

in the end, after you claim your independence and give her space to realize that it's not just you and the M that is the problem, the key is communication. Honest communication

 

Men are problem solvers. I just wanted someone to listen. So we made a deal, if I wanted advice, I would be clear and ask for it.

[Gunny376]

I don't want to thread jack. Briefly, an old friend (ex from HS & college) reappeared after 10 yrs. I told H of contact and it escalated from a "I have a question...do u remember..." text to "good morning!" and everyday contact.

 

I was one month into my separation at this pt. What was missing? My common sense! Actually, it was a perfect storm. It was an easy ego boost w/out effort of a R (1k miles apart, he is married). Until the "you'll always do great" turned into him talking about how great I was and how I made a diff in his outlook in life. He took interest in my work. I kid myself into thinking I had an old friend back.

 

My H at the time was negative. Conv was hard to keep up w/out some p*ss poor observation abt daily events. Politics consumed him...he grasped onto things he had no control over changing just to be angry at the world.

 

I get a text from friend w/ some funny thing that happened and I was

consumed.

 

I had a bit of a non-traditional childhood and friend brought back a lot of memories that I buried in my quest to be better. I met my H when I was far from where I came from. I felt like he didn't quite appreciate what I had overcome.

 

Turns out that these "lost loves" trigger emotional synapses. But, I don't want to blame my behavior on this. I also don't want to feel like it was an EA bc once I felt the line was crossed w/ a "memory" I set firm boundaries and cut contact after praising my H first.

 

I'm ashamed about it. Really am. I feel duped but also wonder if I overreacted and he really was just being a friend...not curious enough to ask though! That's OVER.

 

Lots of things were missing in M. High giving down the hall was more of a partnership than a M. We worked through. Lot of things. One of many that came out in MC was that when I talked abt my bad day at work, he would talk abt how I should handle it and/or go on a rant abr how they don't deserve me. I felt like he didn't have confidence in me to properly handle the situation and/or that he couldn't be happy for me for actually enjoying my work (overall) and just be supportive. He said he felt like he was showing he was my #1 fan bc "they don't deserve you." I said "you maker feel like I'm settling when I love my job."

 

in the end, after you claim your independence and give her space to realize that it's not just you and the M that is the problem, the key is communication. Honest communication

 

Men are problem solvers. I just wanted someone to listen. So we made a deal, if I wanted advice, I would be clear and ask for it.

 

Your obviously a well read, well educated (both formally and informally) and intelligent woman.

 

Who all but fell into a "Life Trap" (my personal term for those things we come across in Life ~ with out anticipation nor expectation)

 

But were smart enough to see it for what it was, and to step around and avoid it.

 

Your generosity in sharing your experiences, emotions, feelings ~ as an individual and especially as a woman are more than just gratifying ~ but educational to all of us here at LS.

 

 

And you've really been putting it out there in that its wasn't just him ~ and it wasn't just you ~ but it was the "we of us" that was sick and wasn't working.

 

Men aren't women and men aren't women ~ our brains are literally wired differently.

 

When it comes to cross-gender communication I would highly recommend the book ~ "Gender Speak" and "You Just Don't Understand"

 

Men tend to speak directly and in direct terms, in that they say what they mean and mean what they say ~ while your typical woman tends to speak in directly ~ as in the word ~ "Fine" Which means you go ahead and do what you want but your going to pay for it "Big time" down the road.

 

Men being men, and women being women ~ aka "Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus"

 

Well men just don't get the message ~ while the STBXW's best GF is doing an OMG!

 

Women need to understand that sometimes? You've just got to spell it out to their men and explain it to them as though they were a four year old.

[Gunny376]

To the OP I cannot advise you as what to do. I know what I would do, having gone through what your currently are going through. But that's not one and the same.

 

We're I her husband? It wouldn't be pretty and it wouldn't be fun!

 

I pity the fool of a woman that pulls the stunt on me that mine did, and that yours is?

 

 

NEVER again will I put myself in such a situation such as I was when I was married.

 

I've been off of the market for sometime now ~ because I've been situationing myself to be "divorce-proof, recession-proof, and getting laid off proof" as possible.

[Tea]

Women need to understand that sometimes? You've just got to spell it out to their men and explain it to them as though they were a four year old.

 

 

Haha, yes. Thanks so much, Gunny. You are right. The whole time I was feeling offended and belittled (which led to me closing off that part of my life from him), he was thinking he was paying me a big compliment and showing me the utmost support.

 

It's so easy for men and women to not really understand each other. Learning the "language" is definitely important and I do try really hard to open up now instead of jumping to conclusions because I feel offended. The hard part, for me as a woman, I think, was getting down to WHY I was feeling offended so I could express why he wasn't helping.

 

Do you know how silly it is to say "I don't want you to give me advice, I just want you to listen and sympathize" sounds coming out of one's mouth? There is more to it than that and the "more to it" is really the hard part to express.

 

Once I learned how to do that and be very specific with it (instead of just being annoyed and brushing it off and thinking "eff this, whatever."), it was easy for him to just look at me and say "really? that's how you feel, bc that's not what I meant to do at all!" I still work on it though! I catch myself rolling my eyes and letting things pass, but then I think "TEA! hold up, you're doing it again!"

 

Brutally honest conversation is the Rosetta stone of learning the opposite sex's language

[Tea]

Why Hope:

 

Stay strong. All you can do right now is avoid pushing her further away. If she is going to continue to move away without your prompting, then you have no control over that.

 

You do have control over finding happiness within yourself and your family. A happy person content with oneself is very attractive. A dash of mystery is alluring. A bit of independence added on is a breath of fresh air. I think you are moving in the right direction with the activities you have had with your children, and, of course, being a great father is wonderful. But the latter can also be used to justify how the kids will be okay in a divorce.

 

Have you taken up a hobby for yourself? Even if it's waking up a little earlier to have some YOU time, I think it will be greatly beneficial. I know I've shared much abt myself more so you could understand how us women could get possessed, hard headed, and determined to end things. But, I hope you could use what I found attractive about my H during our separation: no pressure, hands off, and he did not pursue until I was ready.

 

There is a fine line between making sure your spouse knows you are still there to being overbearing. Even an "I love you don't do this" is too much when we want to be left alone. He just said that he wanted our marriage to work and he hoped it did, but until we could talk about what's wrong and how to work on it, he was going to leave me alone. and he did (less the weekly MC sessions that were HORRIBLE at first). When we did have our one-on-one talks, he would say "I will work on that..." and "I'm sorry." No more "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry buts..."

 

Your wife is not herself right now. She may never be the person you fell in love with and married again. I can't tell you if she will come to her senses. I just hope that she is able to dig deep and figure out what is bothering her once you take away the jealousy and control issues and can prove that space is what she needs and what you can give her (of course, she also needs to gain your trust for that, but that's another discussion for later).

 

Keep it up! You're doing fine!

[Tea]

I just remembered something H asked me (calmly) when I felt he was trying to figure out where I was coming from.

 

He asked, "10 years ago, how did you see yourself living your life today?"

 

It really hit home. It went to my expectations out of life and my future. I realized that I never saw myself married and living a solitary life in the City with a big firm job and no care in the world. More reasons I resented my H w/out it being his fault.

 

When I told him (which, I know is probably hurtful), he did not pass judgment. He just asked "is that what you want now?" He just listened like a friend would and let me talk it out. I felt comfortable talking bc he wasn't expecting me to spare his feelings, just wanted ME to figure it out for myself.

 

He then asked where I saw myself ten years from now. It made for a lot of inner turmoil, but I needed it. I hope when the time is right, you and your W could have the same meaningful discussions and get to know each other again on a deeper level.

[WhyHope]

Forgot to add about yesterday - Asked her to wish Happy Father's Day to FIL and her Grandpa. Her response: "It is not about wishing." I asked what do u mean, she responded w "Doesn't matter". I left it at that. No "Happy Father's Day" to me from her. Not harping, it is what it is.

 

This morning and actually last night were kinda rough - she was in a p.o.ed mood. I kinda ignored.

 

TEA: The problem w us right now is that we can't talk. I have been overbearing, I have been controlling and jealous. But... A lot of the jealousy was triggered by her behavior. Still is. As for doing some of the things that your H was - absolutely. I never gave her the support that she was looking for. I didn't listen - I suggested things.

 

GUNNY - It is what it is. I probably would have walked away if I did not feel responsible for this. She is right - I have been doing/not doing things wrong/right. I want to make sure that if I do walk away - I have no regrets. Feelings should not govern one's life.

 

Am I a one woman man? Don't know, but I am loyal. Have always been - to her, to my exes.

 

Am I worried about her A/EA/PA??? Probably yes, but that should weigh on her conscious not mine.

 

No talk about separation. Asked me to get the kids today. She wants to go to the mall. Am I thinking stupid things? Of course. Will try to get over them.

[Tea]

 

TEA: The problem w us right now is that we can't talk. I have been overbearing, I have been controlling and jealous. But... A lot of the jealousy was triggered by her behavior. Still is. As for doing some of the things that your H was - absolutely. I never gave her the support that she was looking for. I didn't listen - I suggested things.

 

No buts. Leave her alone. Don't offer any information unless she asks. Don't be jealous. Don't wonder. Just wait. Don't push her for a decision, just live your life.

 

Maybe she was triggering your jealousy on purpose. This is really bad. Somebody told me that part of loving somebody is knowing what buttons to push and NOT pushing them. Don't fall for it!!!! You won't believe how many buttons I pushed during separation just to get some anger out and make it easier to call it quits.

 

Let her live her "single" life for now. If she's going to cheat, she's going to cheat. But if she comes back to you, THAT's when you could ask under the pretense of moving forward with an honest relationship (not b/c of jealousy). Right now, be INDIFFERENT. Focus on yourself.

[WhyHope]

No buts. Leave her alone. Don't offer any information unless she asks. Don't be jealous. Don't wonder. Just wait. Don't push her for a decision, just live your life.

 

Maybe she was triggering your jealousy on purpose. This is really bad. Somebody told me that part of loving somebody is knowing what buttons to push and NOT pushing them. Don't fall for it!!!! You won't believe how many buttons I pushed during separation just to get some anger out and make it easier to call it quits.

 

Let her live her "single" life for now. If she's going to cheat, she's going to cheat. But if she comes back to you, THAT's when you could ask under the pretense of moving forward with an honest relationship (not b/c of jealousy). Right now, be INDIFFERENT. Focus on yourself.

 

 

Trying... Really trying. I think that she cut off majority of contact w OM. For me? May be. But there were so many episodes where it really seemed like she was doing things on purpose - just to get me. Or, may be she just felt like: I am not doing anything wrong, so I will do whatever I want." Biggest thing that came out of this weekend was that she actually tried to be somewhat playful with me. But I can also see that she is "waiting" for me to react negatively to anything. I won't. Emotions are under check

 

Sometimes I just feel like hugging her and telling her that all is good.

[Gunny376]

There once was a poster (LadyJane14) who explained things with such clarity and such that a four year old could understand it.

 

That would be you Tea.

 

Hindsight being what it is ~ and I can honestly say I wasn't the best husband back in the day ~ although I did give it 110% and all that I had at the time? And was far, far from being the worse.

 

Your post Tea even today show me that it wasn't just me? But my XHEX's own discontent with herself and her life. And that I only agitated such with my own issues in and of life.

 

That being said, we all need to learn to "know" ourselves and learn who and what we're about ~ before getting married.

 

That's something we should do in our twenties ~ but all too many of us rush into marriage before doing so?

 

That is in large part why the divorce rate is so high ~ we marry to young ~ and being twenty something is too young.

[Nomad1]

Whyhope > your problem is that you care too much. I know she is your wife, but as far as she is concerned it is over and she is not doing anything wrong. Everything you have said so far about your wife suggests that she is done and may have other romantic interests. LET HER GO man! You are still young and have a whole promising life ahead of you. Fill your life with hope not despair. I guarantee you that if you pushed for divorce, sold the house, moved on etc, she would be knocking loudly on your door. The trouble is, you would let her back in... I wouldn't.

 

About time you started investing all the energy you are wasting in your career, in you, you, you. You will get so much further ahead in your life.

 

Nomad1