Stuck!

[trippi1432]

sorry, I haven't really posted a story of my trials and tribulations. This poster just reminded me of a difficult time in my life where I was very much like his wife: stubborn, upset, short-tempered, flighty, seeking (or unexpectedly finding and entertaining) outside attention, strong-willed, blaming H for my unhappiness, ready to move on and life my own life, etc.

 

I thought I could offer some help from the perspective of the other party and it just came out

 

TEA - You have some great perspectives, for all of us really, please keep posting.

[Binster]

Trippi i'm in UK just thought rules!! shag contest!!!!. LOL:o

[Tea]

 

A little better in terms of "checking up" on her. A little more trust.

 

WH. While I believe she needs her space and you should not be checking up on her, I would still argue that trust is earned. She has not earned it yet, but you cannot demand it right now. Right now she's ready to walk away and you cannot smother her.

 

Don't think of it as "okay, I'll trust HER to do the right thing." Think of it as "okay, I will trust that things will be okay" and lead your life that way.

 

Once you take away everything she is blaming you for and become that great man that she married and WANTED to marry, the ball is in her court. Actually, the ball will be in your court because you'll be able to realize that you're no longer the problem and her outbursts will have no rational backing. And, you'll have the advantage of loving yourself and being at peace with you.

 

That's the point where you, Mr. Confident-Knowledgeable-of-what-is-right-and-wrong-and-what-is-working-and-not-working-for-you, could start meaningful discussions. That's when you could revisit whether to stay in the marriage or leave the marriage. That's when you could sit and just smile and ask "so, why do you enjoy interacting with OM? is there something that he offers that I can't offer?"

 

You may realize that she is not trustworthy, but it's no longer emphasized by your insecurities. It will be solely b/c of her character. You need to take away all the negative things about you that make you look through muddied glasses. Once you do that, you WILL see things for what they are.

 

What you will see? I can't tell you. I don't know your wife. You may see that this OM was just some inappropriate behavior b/c of the circumstance. You may see that, after re-reading her responses to the emails, that you overreacted. You may see that she really likes this guy and is on a self-destructive path that you don't want to join her in anymore.

 

But, it just goes back to my original point. Improve you. I know a lot of people have recommended what I'm sure are great reads. I did not read any marriage books or traditional self-help books (not that I'm opposed, just busy I suppose).

 

I did read a lot of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Each line was a "wow..." for me. I digested every thought. Even googling his quotes is a quick fun read. Keep up the good work!!

[Tea]

TEA - You have some great perspectives, for all of us really, please keep posting.

 

Thank you, Trippi. This is very nice of you. I have a lot of perspectives from my "crazy b*tch" days I'll keep posting.

[trippi1432]

Trippi i'm in UK just thought rules!! shag contest!!!!. LOL:o

 

Um, well....shag has gotten confused a lot here on LS in relation the US version versus the UK version. :)

 

You may already know, the US version is a dance to beach music...not quite as exciting as the UK version. Hmm, a UK version of shag with rules...as a contest....now that is interesting!! LOL!!! :laugh:

 

Thanks for the laugh Binster....I needed a chuckle today.

[trippi1432]

Thank you, Trippi. This is very nice of you. I have a lot of perspectives from my "crazy b*tch" days I'll keep posting.

 

Thanks TEA...I'm ending the crazy b*tch days hopefully by divorcing mine, not much to save when they move immediately on to someone else. But I am learning by what you went through...some of it very familiar to me as well.

[sotagoon]

deleted...missed the boat here

Edited June 24, 2010 by sotagoon

[trippi1432]

deleted...missed the boat here

 

Sotagoon - It's not about perfection....there is no perfect man or perfect woman. It's about loving people in spite of their imperfections and learning how to live around them.

 

Now having said that, anyone in a physically, emotionally or abusive relationship should leave (not saying that is what happened in your case)...but striving to meet perfection......whose definition of perfection are you striving for? Yours, Hers, God's, the Church, a Marriage Counselor, your friend's opinions or what you might read one day in Cosmo or another day in Glamor. Perfection is a farce....a cruel marketing joke played on couples during the holidays....

 

(Sorry, saw the post before you deleted it....but I'm going to leave this up because I think that it bears some relevance in the topic of discussion on marriage.)

Edited June 24, 2010 by trippi1432
add

[WhyHope]

WH. While I believe she needs her space and you should not be checking up on her, I would still argue that trust is earned. She has not earned it yet, but you cannot demand it right now. Right now she's ready to walk away and you cannot smother her.

 

Don't think of it as "okay, I'll trust HER to do the right thing." Think of it as "okay, I will trust that things will be okay" and lead your life that way.

 

Once you take away everything she is blaming you for and become that great man that she married and WANTED to marry, the ball is in her court. Actually, the ball will be in your court because you'll be able to realize that you're no longer the problem and her outbursts will have no rational backing. And, you'll have the advantage of loving yourself and being at peace with you.

 

That's the point where you, Mr. Confident-Knowledgeable-of-what-is-right-and-wrong-and-what-is-working-and-not-working-for-you, could start meaningful discussions. That's when you could revisit whether to stay in the marriage or leave the marriage. That's when you could sit and just smile and ask "so, why do you enjoy interacting with OM? is there something that he offers that I can't offer?"

 

You may realize that she is not trustworthy, but it's no longer emphasized by your insecurities. It will be solely b/c of her character. You need to take away all the negative things about you that make you look through muddied glasses. Once you do that, you WILL see things for what they are.

 

What you will see? I can't tell you. I don't know your wife. You may see that this OM was just some inappropriate behavior b/c of the circumstance. You may see that, after re-reading her responses to the emails, that you overreacted. You may see that she really likes this guy and is on a self-destructive path that you don't want to join her in anymore.

 

But, it just goes back to my original point. Improve you. I know a lot of people have recommended what I'm sure are great reads. I did not read any marriage books or traditional self-help books (not that I'm opposed, just busy I suppose).

 

I did read a lot of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Each line was a "wow..." for me. I digested every thought. Even googling his quotes is a quick fun read. Keep up the good work!!

 

"Be not the slave of your own past. Plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with new power, with an advanced experience that shall explain and overlook the old."

 

"If I have lost confidence in myself, I have the universe against me."

 

Good stuff! Tea, I HAVE overreacted in the past. But she has done nothing in quelling those overreactions of mine. She is not ready to do that. She is not willing. She is tired. Its up to me. No, you are not my wife - but sometimes, after reading what you say - I actually wonder.

 

Last two days were so so. I limited the contact, but it seems that we are both stuck - we can't make up. She does not know how or if its the right time - and I am "not allowed". She has shown her frustrations a couple of times - I stayed cool and calm. I did slip up and question some things - and again I feel that I was right to do so - if the relationship was normal. Since its not - then I was wrong. Focusing on work. Have a ton to do from now till Wednesday. Hopefully everything will work out with that.

 

She is borderline "nice". Responds to me, even when she doesn't have to. When I asked her whether she wants to watch a movie - she said "no" (of course!) BUT she also gave me a reason of being tired. She did not have to explain, but she still did. We will see what this weekend brings.

 

Tea, Trippi and ALL - THANK you. From the limited things that I posted - what do you think?

[WhyHope]

TEA, TRIPPI:

 

If I "have" to text her/call her - what would be a good phrase that can not be interpreted by her in a negative way? "Thinking of you"? _Nooooo

[imagine]

Send her a funny joke. We all like to be happy...

 

The beauty is - that it has nothing to do with the relationship.

 

Have a look at Askmen.com for jokes. Have a good anti-virus for the other joke sites.

[trippi1432]

Hi WhyHope,

 

I just look at all of this and see how much the two of you have lost sight of each other....all of the stress of life playing such havoc in the wake of your marriage.

 

The two of you have been through so much together....her supporting the family while you did law school, doing her own thing and becoming successful in her own right.

 

Do you think that she knows, does she even see how important the two of you are together in your marriage...for each other and the children? Do you think that she has become a "shrew" due to all she feels she has sacrificed? I don't think so, I tend to think the "shrew" lives across the street.

 

What the two of you are trying to build, you practice...her ability to work less....it takes time to accomplish. Keep on your path, not to wear her down, but to show her that you will stand by your marriage.

 

On the text thing...not sure...the joke thing sounds interesting, but was thinking that perhaps sending her a text asking her if she is feeling well since you noticed that she was tired the evening before. Going further, even asking if there is anything you can do for her to lighten the load as you would love to spend some time together and watch a movie with her. That is a more positive change and better than asking her where she has been, when will she be home....etc, etc.

 

What do you think?

[WhyHope]

Hi WhyHope,

 

I just look at all of this and see how much the two of you have lost sight of each other....all of the stress of life playing such havoc in the wake of your marriage.

 

The two of you have been through so much together....her supporting the family while you did law school, doing her own thing and becoming successful in her own right.

 

Do you think that she knows, does she even see how important the two of you are together in your marriage...for each other and the children? Do you think that she has become a "shrew" due to all she feels she has sacrificed? I don't think so, I tend to think the "shrew" lives across the street.

 

What the two of you are trying to build, you practice...her ability to work less....it takes time to accomplish. Keep on your path, not to wear her down, but to show her that you will stand by your marriage.

 

On the text thing...not sure...the joke thing sounds interesting, but was thinking that perhaps sending her a text asking her if she is feeling well since you noticed that she was tired the evening before. Going further, even asking if there is anything you can do for her to lighten the load as you would love to spend some time together and watch a movie with her. That is a more positive change and better than asking her where she has been, when will she be home....etc, etc.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I just asked for a smile. She said that she is smiling. Just small talk.. More me than her. Nothing. She came home late after picking up the oldest. I was w the youngest. I kinda started to let her know that she should have gotten home earlier - the Oldest has practice tomorrow early. But caught myself in time and DID NOT let her become defensive. Just said that she knows it as well as I do. Try to be as soft as possible with her. Will have to work tomorrow. Will see how she takes it.

 

Hate it. You are right, I think. She knows that this may not be worth it, but she does not know how to walk away/give up. I don't think that she understands that there are no winners in this.

 

I still love her. Just feel that we are drifting further apart.

 

Stinks.

[trippi1432]

I just asked for a smile. She said that she is smiling. Just small talk.. More me than her. Nothing. She came home late after picking up the oldest. I was w the youngest. I kinda started to let her know that she should have gotten home earlier - the Oldest has practice tomorrow early. But caught myself in time and DID NOT let her become defensive. Just said that she knows it as well as I do. Try to be as soft as possible with her. Will have to work tomorrow. Will see how she takes it.

 

Hate it. You are right, I think. She knows that this may not be worth it, but she does not know how to walk away/give up. I don't think that she understands that there are no winners in this.

 

I still love her. Just feel that we are drifting further apart.

 

Stinks.

 

Just for clarification...you "sort of" started to let her know she should have gotten home earlier due to the oldest having practice tomorrow...when you say you caught yourself and DID NOT let her become defensive....what do you mean by that?

 

I'm just trying to get more info because from a woman's perspective, that can sound a little chastising or passive-aggressive. The "you know it as well as I do" comment is why I am asking. Just from my perspective, a simple, "Glad you guys are home"...(looking at eldest kid) "Go on and get ready for bed, you have an early practice in the morning." That's it....that's all that really would need to be said. If you didn't want to engage with her, you have your choice right there to not engage. However, by stating the "you know it as well as I do" comment is like trying to engage her....(putting shoe on other foot).

 

She doesn't know how to walk away or give up....I think you are right on this.....maybe she doesn't want to....maybe she just wants you to change how the two of you communicate. Based on your earlier confessions that you would ask her where she has been, when she will be home....it's easy to go from one extreme to the other, but no woman likes to be talked down to....especially a strong woman like your wife.

 

Maybe I'm wrong...just my perspective. There may be people on here that will think that is cow-towing, but the tone of voice, the words you use, how you say it and even how you stand when you say it......even down to how use your hands....all of this is observed and part of the that communication method.

[WhyHope]

Today she was having coffee w OM. I walked in. Told her to leave. Talked to him. He is in the process of separating from is wife. That his "friendship with my W" is affecting a lot. And he "decided" to stop it - just so he has a clear mind.

 

Told him that he is an idiot. Told him that frankly, I do not care for him or his situation, but asked him "politely" to stay out of my family. Explained what may happen if my kids will have divorced parents. Calm, cool and collected.

 

Had a talk afterward w W. She presses for separation. I kind of left it up in the air. Keeps telling me that nothing is going on. I did not beg or tried to reason. Just told her that I am tired of lies - from both of us. Even little ones. We agreed to at least be honest.

 

The "I have nothing for you" were rampant today. Not sure where to go from here... Do I move?

[trippi1432]

Hi WhyHope - was wondering how things were going.

 

Interesting developments and I commend you on keeping your cool with the OM. Unless you are totally done with the marriage, I would say do not move out....stay put.

 

Others may not agree with me here, but if you now know that this man is separating from his wife and he obviously had/has feelings for your wife....moving out would be like giving them permission. Keep your cool...continue LC with the wife. I would go ahead and look for a good marriage counselor and perhaps make an appointment and let her know you are going, would be nice her to attend as well. Maybe if you lead, she will follow?

[WhyHope]

Hi WhyHope - was wondering how things were going.

 

Interesting developments and I commend you on keeping your cool with the OM. Unless you are totally done with the marriage, I would say do not move out....stay put.

 

Others may not agree with me here, but if you now know that this man is separating from his wife and he obviously had/has feelings for your wife....moving out would be like giving them permission. Keep your cool...continue LC with the wife. I would go ahead and look for a good marriage counselor and perhaps make an appointment and let her know you are going, would be nice her to attend as well. Maybe if you lead, she will follow?

she will not go.

 

Feelings? Yeah, he did/does. But again, I don't worry about him. I worry about her. Does she?

 

Why can't we just get this out of the way? What da heck happen to us?

[WhyHope]

Trippi - I noticed smth else about myself - I have become "stone-cold" - I am really getting good at keeping my emotions in check. ))) Really good.

 

Now working on the "trust" - which is more of just ignoring her crap. I guess trust will be addressed if she decides to work on this.

 

She has said that she will move out. I said that it might be even a better idea than me moving out: I get to bond with the kids; plus if I am changing - she will clearly see it. Will see what she does I guess

[txsilkysmoothe]

So she will move out and leave the kids with you? She'll be living alone and can easily have visitors? Sleepovers?

 

That doesn't sound wise.

 

I know I'm the only one who thinks so, but I think you should move out. Saddle her with the kids - they'll seriously limit her ability to get close to any man.

 

She's already made up her mind about you. She will not view you in any other "light" until she gets a break from you and gets to experiment with the life she thinks she wants. She needs to see that the grass isn't any greener. Until she does, she won't be satisfied with the grass she has, so to speak.

[WhyHope]

So she will move out and leave the kids with you? She'll be living alone and can easily have visitors? Sleepovers?

 

That doesn't sound wise.

 

I know I'm the only one who thinks so, but I think you should move out. Saddle her with the kids - they'll seriously limit her ability to get close to any man.

 

She's already made up her mind about you. She will not view you in any other "light" until she gets a break from you and gets to experiment with the life she thinks she wants. She needs to see that the grass isn't any greener. Until she does, she won't be satisfied with the grass she has, so to speak.

 

She is too stubborn and independent. I feel that we CAN do an in-house separation so to speak. What difference does it make if I am away or here if I keep "bugging" her? Space has to be given in a relationship. It should not matter what address each party has.

[txsilkysmoothe]

She is too stubborn and independent. I feel that we CAN do an in-house separation so to speak. What difference does it make if I am away or here if I keep "bugging" her? Space has to be given in a relationship. It should not matter what address each party has.

 

So you're determined to "bug" her?

 

I would suggest that you are not giving her space. Whose definition of space is important, yours or hers? Does she believe she has had space? if not, nothing has changed for her except perhaps an increase in her frustration with you.

 

Do you think she is serious about moving out? Is she stubborn and independent enough to do that?

 

If you move out, is she likely to have the OM over to your house considering she is living across the street from her parents? Considering you can show up there at any moment because of the kids?

 

If she moves out alone, out of your sight, out of parents sight, out of childrens sight, is she more likely to entertain OM?

 

Or does she mean she will move to her parents house?

[WhyHope]

So you're determined to "bug" her? NO, of course not. My point was that if I DO NOT STOP - being in a different place will not help

 

I would suggest that you are not giving her space. Whose definition of space is important, yours or hers? Does she believe she has had space? if not, nothing has changed for her except perhaps an increase in her frustration with you.

No, she does not believe that. But how would the separation lead to us saving the marriage???

Do you think she is serious about moving out? Is she stubborn and independent enough to do that?

She is stubborn. How serious? I guess she is pretty serious. Will see

If you move out, is she likely to have the OM over to your house considering she is living across the street from her parents? Considering you can show up there at any moment because of the kids?

No, its an EA not a PA. But - anything is possible I guess

If she moves out alone, out of your sight, out of parents sight, out of childrens sight, is she more likely to entertain OM?

possibly

Or does she mean she will move to her parents house?

I dont want us to separate, thats what my point is too

[Windsurf66]

No, do not move out. Read this thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236339

 

In the story above, the wife had already decided to divorce, and booting the husband out was simply just to facilitate her OM visiting, and she probably wants her hands on the house as well. The wife in the story was also using the kids as a weapon to manipulate the guy.

 

If you move out, your kids will be exposed to the OM when the OM moves in or visit reguarly. Let her meet the OM outside if she wants. If you move out, she will still meet the OM (in your house), and your kids are there. Just imagine, like the story in the thread above, where your wife and the OM spends time with the kids. Your wife may also try to cut you off or alienate you from the kids.

 

One final word, do not move out. Ask your wife to move out if she wants her space.

[Windsurf66]

So you're determined to "bug" her?

 

I would suggest that you are not giving her space. Whose definition of space is important, yours or hers? Does she believe she has had space? if not, nothing has changed for her except perhaps an increase in her frustration with you.

 

Do you think she is serious about moving out? Is she stubborn and independent enough to do that?

 

If you move out, is she likely to have the OM over to your house considering she is living across the street from her parents? Considering you can show up there at any moment because of the kids?

 

If she moves out alone, out of your sight, out of parents sight, out of childrens sight, is she more likely to entertain OM?

 

Or does she mean she will move to her parents house?

 

Let the wife bang her OM in her parents house, its better to keep the kids away from her moans

[wrencn]

Heck no, don't you move out! If she is so unhappy then she will move. In Virginia (where I live) if a parent moves out of the home without the kids the other parent can claim abandonment. That is why I am sitting tight- I don't trust my husband at all.

 

I hate to say it but you are going to have to let this thing with the OM run its course. You can't guilt/bully/beg her into seeing the light. I've had to do this myself- just sit here and let my husband realize this girl he has placed on a pedestal isn't the answer to his prayers as he thinks. If/when she comes around you may not even want her anymore.