Stuck!

[txsilkysmoothe]

I don't think the OP's concerns are those of other posters. He isn't concerned about who gets the house or allegations he abandoned the children. He doesn't want to separate, but I think she is determined to separate, one way or another. From the things he has shared, he is not succeeding in changing her mind about him, he is not controlling his emotions, still accusing her, still contacting her unnecessarily, confronting the OM (even though he says he isn't worried about him), etc. He is reinforcing her decision to separate.

[WhyHope]

I don't think the OP's concerns are those of other posters. He isn't concerned about who gets the house or allegations he abandoned the children. He doesn't want to separate, but I think she is determined to separate, one way or another. From the things he has shared, he is not succeeding in changing her mind about him, he is not controlling his emotions, still accusing her, still contacting her unnecessarily, confronting the OM (even though he says he isn't worried about him), etc. He is reinforcing her decision to separate.

 

You are right. Latest development - she, I feel gave me another chance to calm down. She said that she will end everything w OM and there will be no more lies between us (and that includes me too). I have to step up.

 

Now - in the "no more lies" spirit - should I tell her that I have the passwords to her email and phone? (I know that she knows that I do - but wouldn't be a "peace" offering?)

[Windsurf66]

You are right. Latest development - she, I feel gave me another chance to calm down. She said that she will end everything w OM and there will be no more lies between us (and that includes me too). I have to step up.

 

Now - in the "no more lies" spirit - should I tell her that I have the passwords to her email and phone? (I know that she knows that I do - but wouldn't be a "peace" offering?)

 

Finally, she admitted she had something going on with the OM too bad that you love her and can't let her go despite all her lies and deceit.

[Windsurf66]

I don't think the OP's concerns are those of other posters. He isn't concerned about who gets the house or allegations he abandoned the children. He doesn't want to separate, but I think she is determined to separate, one way or another. From the things he has shared, he is not succeeding in changing her mind about him, he is not controlling his emotions, still accusing her, still contacting her unnecessarily, confronting the OM (even though he says he isn't worried about him), etc. He is reinforcing her decision to separate.

 

Hi,

 

But the OP's accusations and suspicions, are not groundless right? Since the wife has admitted and said to end everything with the OM. The question is, what is the "everything" that had happened

 

Anyway, this is where my opinion differ, and perhaps diff with the OP as well. Why should the OP change to change his wife's mind? Who started and continued with the lies and flirting with the OM? So the OP has to stop hindering her relationship with the OM in order to change her mind not to separate. Wow, I can see a long-lasting and good marriage here

[txsilkysmoothe]

Windsurf66-

 

The OP, as wonderful as he is, is too abstract in relating events. I don't know what his wife has admitted to or what she has agreed to end.

 

As I recall, OP thinks he needs to change for himself, regardless of what happens with the marriage. And yes, he thinks it will re-ignite her attraction to him.

 

I certainly don't claim to know the answers. I'm sitting here alone.

 

 

OP -

 

What has your wife admitted to?

 

What has she agreed to end?

 

They are business partners, right? What do you expect her to do about that? What has she said she will do about it?

 

Where was your wife and the OM when you confronted him? You said they were having coffee? Where? A secret meeting?

[imagine]

You are right. Latest development - she, I feel gave me another chance to calm down. She said that she will end everything w OM and there will be no more lies between us (and that includes me too). I have to step up.

 

Now - in the "no more lies" spirit - should I tell her that I have the passwords to her email and phone? (I know that she knows that I do - but wouldn't be a "peace" offering?)

 

You are not resolved as yet. Do not compromise your security TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE.

[WhyHope]

Windsurf66-

 

The OP, as wonderful as he is, is too abstract in relating events. I don't know what his wife has admitted to or what she has agreed to end.

 

As I recall, OP thinks he needs to change for himself, regardless of what happens with the marriage. And yes, he thinks it will re-ignite her attraction to him.

 

I certainly don't claim to know the answers. I'm sitting here alone.

 

 

OP -

 

What has your wife admitted to? NOTHING - prior to agreeing that she will end - she clearly stated that there is nothing to end.

 

What has she agreed to end?

Whatever it is.

They are business partners, right? What do you expect her to do about that? What has she said she will do about it?

They will remain partners, I guess. Nothing can be done about that for now. They/She will limit communication to bare minimum.

Where was your wife and the OM when you confronted him? You said they were having coffee? Where? A secret meeting? Coffee shop. 10am. Not really that secret.

 

It is what it is. She does not look at it as an EA. Knowing her - she does not realize that it actually is. No guy will be friends w a girl without having a temptation in his mind.

[WhyHope]

You are not resolved as yet. Do not compromise your security TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE.

 

What do you mean by my security?

[imagine]

To qualify my last post: Inform her that you will do anything to save the marriage.

 

Until she has regained your trust and confidence there is nothing further to discuss!

[txsilkysmoothe]

I find this situation very confusing.

 

In regard to whether your wife is having an EA, you seem to vacillate between "she is," "she isn't" and "she is, but she doesn't know she is."

 

Other posters seem to accept as FACT that she is having an EA. I wonder how their advice/opinions might differ if the truth is she is NOT having an EA?

 

She has continually denied an EA, correct? Can you provide specific evidence of an EA? I painstakingly read through all of your posts and couldn't find anything that indicates you have gathered proof of an EA. The only two things that come close are:

 

1. She has flirted with OM - (details please - number of times, what she said, did, etc.)

 

2. you caught her in lies - (details please - number of times, what was the lie, what reason did she give for lying)

 

 

3. Has she spent time with the OM outside of the office and in a non-business location/setting?

[WhyHope]

I find this situation very confusing.

 

In regard to whether your wife is having an EA, you seem to vacillate between "she is," "she isn't" and "she is, but she doesn't know she is."

she is

Other posters seem to accept as FACT that she is having an EA. I wonder how their advice/opinions might differ if the truth is she is NOT having an EA?

 

She has continually denied an EA, correct? YES Can you provide specific evidence of an EA? I painstakingly read through all of your posts and couldn't find anything that indicates you have gathered proof of an EA. The only two things that come close are:

 

1. She has flirted with OM - (details please - number of times, what she said, did, etc.)

No I love yous, just conversations at all times of day and night. Discussions about everyday stuff. he said more than she did. His BDay greeting to her: Thanking nature for giving me you. Also, he has stated in one of his emails that his wife was getting suspicious. They both kinda laughed it off.

2. you caught her in lies - (details please - number of times, what was the lie, what reason did she give for lying)

I was with a GF - truth: with OM; I am by myself - truth: w OM... A number of times...

 

3. Has she spent time with the OM outside of the office and in a non-business location/setting? Yes. She did tell me about it.

 

 

Does it make a difference?

 

We talked about a separation agreement. (She said that she wants me to move out - "giving you a chance to save this marriage".) I said that in a separation agreement should be certain penalties - i.e. custody is split 50/50, but if I drink or don't make the $$$ for example - my share goes down; if she is w OM - her share goes down. She said that why would we be using the kids as penalty - to which I reply that they are the only "thing" that we really care about (not the house or $$$). She stated that me getting penalized for not making the $$$ by cutting me off from the kids is absurd. I replied that I should worry about that, not her. She went on to say that she does not have a problem with that condition as it pertains to her - she has no problem giving up OM in any way shape or form - since there is nothing, according to her to give up. She repeated that like 4 times...

 

Thoughts?

 

TEA, where r u?

[trippi1432]

Does it make a difference?

 

We talked about a separation agreement. (She said that she wants me to move out - "giving you a chance to save this marriage".) I said that in a separation agreement should be certain penalties - i.e. custody is split 50/50, but if I drink or don't make the $$$ for example - my share goes down; if she is w OM - her share goes down. She said that why would we be using the kids as penalty - to which I reply that they are the only "thing" that we really care about (not the house or $$$). She stated that me getting penalized for not making the $$$ by cutting me off from the kids is absurd. I replied that I should worry about that, not her. She went on to say that she does not have a problem with that condition as it pertains to her - she has no problem giving up OM in any way shape or form - since there is nothing, according to her to give up. She repeated that like 4 times...

 

Thoughts?

 

TEA, where r u?

 

Why_Hope...I've been here since day one when you found LS, so I'm going to go lightly on you.....if my arm were long enough to reach through this computer and slap you around a bit, I WOULD!!! REPEAT AFTER ME!!! KIDS ARE NEVER A BARGAINING CHIP ON MONEY, LOVE OR EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION OF THE HEART!!!!!

 

Ok...now that I have that off my chest....you ARE still being an attorney with your wife...even down to your children!!! I'm not going to candy-coat this for you....do you care to save this marriage or has it become a challenging competition to you? If it is nothing more than a competition, take the 50/50, be happy you get to spend time with your kids and move out and move on with your life. She has told you more than once that there is nothing for her to give up (real or imaginary) it is nothing less than you have already done in the past.

 

My advice to you is to sit down, have a non-alcoholic beer and think....really think.....whose indiscretion is worse and does it really matter at the end of the day if you love the family you come home to?

[WhyHope]

Why_Hope...I've been here since day one when you found LS, so I'm going to go lightly on you.....if my arm were long enough to reach through this computer and slap you around a bit, I WOULD!!! REPEAT AFTER ME!!! KIDS ARE NEVER A BARGAINING CHIP ON MONEY, LOVE OR EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION OF THE HEART!!!!!

 

Ok...now that I have that off my chest....you ARE still being an attorney with your wife...even down to your children!!! I'm not going to candy-coat this for you....do you care to save this marriage or has it become a challenging competition to you? If it is nothing more than a competition, take the 50/50, be happy you get to spend time with your kids and move out and move on with your life. She has told you more than once that there is nothing for her to give up (real or imaginary) it is nothing less than you have already done in the past.

 

My advice to you is to sit down, have a non-alcoholic beer and think....really think.....whose indiscretion is worse and does it really matter at the end of the day if you love the family you come home to?

 

 

They are all I care about. Same with her. She could not come up with ONE good reason as to why we should separate - and NO I can not move in with a friend - that would NOT accomplish anything. Huh?

 

I see what you are saying - and you are right. I actually don't want answers. I want respect. And respect is earned.

 

Good news - throughout the past couple of weeks I held my emotions in check - even when met the OM. For me - HUGE accomplishment. I am getting good at that! )))

[trippi1432]

They are all I care about. Same with her. She could not come up with ONE good reason as to why we should separate - and NO I can not move in with a friend - that would NOT accomplish anything. Huh?

 

I see what you are saying - and you are right. I actually don't want answers. I want respect. And respect is earned.

 

Good news - throughout the past couple of weeks I held my emotions in check - even when met the OM. For me - HUGE accomplishment. I am getting good at that! )))

 

Good with the front on the OM...admirable...but I have to ask.....she could not come up with one good reason why the two of you should separate...do you love each other? You can't move in with a friend....that tells me that you don't feel the same about HER....respect...yes, that is a two-way street.....but I think it is you who doesn't respect himself rather than the other way around.

 

I'm not trying to be hard on you really...there is an alternative to this...you can let the whole thing go right now.....walk away or you can make a choice to truly see the woman who loves you and the woman you love....respect comes with that...so far I have rarely seen you mention love.

 

Eight years ago my ex thought I was having an EA....I wasn't but yes, I did like the attention that I was getting that I was NOT getting from my ex...he was always running off with his drinking buddies. He got an "awakening" one day and decided that he didn't want to lose me. He changed some things (not posting them as they are private), but it was enough for me to notice and he did earn my respect in that regard. There are various venues on the area of respect.....and only you can decide the ones that mean the most to you.

 

Respect is not instantaneous....and you do not have to cow-toe or bow to her to get it. She just wants your true love...how hard is that counselor? She is not your client...she is your wife.

[txsilkysmoothe]

My comments are italicized and underlined....

 

 

1. She has flirted with OM - (details please - number of times, what she said, did, etc.)

No I love yous, just conversations at all times of day and night. Discussions about everyday stuff. he said more than she did. His BDay greeting to her: Thanking nature for giving me you. Also, he has stated in one of his emails that his wife was getting suspicious. They both kinda laughed it off.

 

What he has said to her is irrelevant. He can like her, want her, but nothing is going to happen unless she wants it. What inappropriate comments has she made to him? Perhaps they laughed off the "wife is getting suspicious" comment because it was a joke or ridiculous.

 

2. you caught her in lies - (details please - number of times, what was the lie, what reason did she give for lying)

I was with a GF - truth: with OM; I am by myself - truth: w OM... A number of times...

 

She could very well lie about this because of your suspicions, she knows you will overreact, and she'll have to defend herself. Where was she and what was she and OM doing during the times she lied about being with him?

 

 

3. Has she spent time with the OM outside of the office and in a non-business location/setting? Yes. She did tell me about it.

 

Where were they and what were they doing?

 

 

We talked about a separation agreement. (She said that she wants me to move out - "giving you a chance to save this marriage".) I said that in a separation agreement should be certain penalties - i.e. custody is split 50/50, but if I drink

 

This keeps coming up and you've never really explained how it has or is affecting the relationship. You don't have to share but you might want to take inventory of how often, how much, and how you behave when you drink. How much does it bother her? Does she repeatedly cite it as a problem?

 

 

She went on to say that she does not have a problem with that condition as it pertains to her - she has no problem giving up OM in any way shape or form - since there is nothing, according to her to give up. She repeated that like 4 times... I think I believe her!

 

 

She could not come up with ONE good reason as to why we should separate Really? She gave you no reason? She has given reasons previously and they are pretty good ones.

 

 

I think you may have always been a jealous man. I don't think this started 8 months ago when you saw that one email. What made you look at her email anyway? I think you have been spying on her, checking up on her, requiring her to tell you "where and with whom," accusing her for a long time. She has never been able to provide an answer you will believe. She is tired of being accused regularly and having to daily defend herself.

 

Does she have any female friends? I don't think it wise that she has a friendship with the OM, but I can understand how it developed. With you, she is always under a microscope, always waiting for the next accusation, or for you to show up at her work and confront a male friend and co-worker accusing him of having an affair with her. How embarrassing that must have been if she is innocent. Any expression of love from you does not supersede the negative treatment you subject her to. So she feels bad about herself as a woman and a wife, isn't feeling your love, is lonely for someone to talk to but doesn't really want to talk to a close friend (too embarrassed) so she strikes up a friendship with a man at work. Sure he may have had ulterior motives or he may have just felt sorry for an unhappy woman that he admires and views as a good woman, mother, and wife. His interest in more may have developed over time. Or, he may have needed someone to talk to about his crappy marriage and he found a kindred spirit in your wife. It could have started very innocently. It may still be innocent. He can compliment her and be thankful for her without it being a romantic involvement. Just as you've found solace here, they found solace in one another. It might not continue to be innocent - if they continue to bond over their "jealous spouses" something could develop.

Edited July 1, 2010 by txsilkysmoothe

[WhyHope]

My comments are italicized and underlined....

 

 

1. She has flirted with OM - (details please - number of times, what she said, did, etc.)

A: No I love yous, just conversations at all times of day and night. Discussions about everyday stuff. he said more than she did. His BDay greeting to her: Thanking nature for giving me you. Also, he has stated in one of his emails that his wife was getting suspicious. They both kinda laughed it off.

 

What he has said to her is irrelevant. He can like her, want her, but nothing is going to happen unless she wants it. What inappropriate comments has she made to him? Perhaps they laughed off the "wife is getting suspicious" comment because it was a joke or ridiculous.

She flat out said that she has feelings for him. Later on - she said that that is how she felt that day.

2. you caught her in lies - (details please - number of times, what was the lie, what reason did she give for lying)

A: I was with a GF - truth: with OM; I am by myself - truth: w OM... A number of times...

 

She could very well lie about this because of your suspicions, she knows you will overreact, and she'll have to defend herself. Where was she and what was she and OM doing during the times she lied about being with him?

Overnight, kinda work related trip(s). Other times when she was with him (just the two of them) and claimed that she was with someone else. Came home after 4am . I Still believe that nothing happened

 

3. Has she spent time with the OM outside of the office and in a non-business location/setting? A: Yes. She did tell me about it.

 

Where were they and what were they doing?

 

See above

We talked about a separation agreement. (She said that she wants me to move out - "giving you a chance to save this marriage".) I said that in a separation agreement should be certain penalties - i.e. custody is split 50/50, but if I drink

 

This keeps coming up and you've never really explained how it has or is affecting the relationship. You don't have to share but you might want to take inventory of how often, how much, and how you behave when you drink. How much does it bother her? Does she repeatedly cite it as a problem?

Obviously it bothers her - a lot. In the past year - I may be drank 10-12 times. 4-5 of those I got pretty drunk. NO, I am not violent in any way, but I do tend to get kinda obnoxious, I guess. Again, not to get into details - but it is viewed differently in our crowd. Its almost ok to act that way for a guy. Don't want to explain why.

 

She went on to say that she does not have a problem with that condition as it pertains to her - A: she has no problem giving up OM in any way shape or form - since there is nothing, according to her to give up. She repeated that like 4 times... I think I believe her!

 

 

A: She could not come up with ONE good reason as to why we should separate Really? She gave you no reason? She has given reasons previously and they are pretty good ones.

U did not follow through though - I feel that moving out will not really accomplish anything. I did already once - and what did that solve?

I think you may have always been a jealous man. I don't think this started 8 months ago when you saw that one email. What made you look at her email anyway? I think you have been spying on her, checking up on her, requiring her to tell you "where and with whom," accusing her for a long time. She has never been able to provide an answer you will believe. She is tired of being accused regularly and having to daily defend herself.

Jealous? Not overly. I always trusted her. There were other instances where I said to her that whatever she is doing is crossing MY boundary. (Sorry - I do have those). No, I don't think a married woman should be conversing with another man in the middle of the night. On the other hand, you are right - I have been asking the "where and with whom" and accused her without any grounds before. On the other hand, there is a lot more that went into that. In 8 years that we have been married - she has had a number of male friends that she or those friends got too close to her.Now, I have not checked anything in the past. I started checking after I saw the email - she left the account open on the computer. After that - I checked the cell phone bill. On the other hand, she does say that I have been accusing her for a long time and she has been lying just to avoid my reactions. BUT - before, if I felt that the relationship was purely friendly from both sides - I always backed off. THIS - was not and is not friendly.

Does she have any female friends? NO I don't think it wise that she has a friendship with the OM, but I can understand how it developed. With you, she is always under a microscope, always waiting for the next accusation, or for you to show up at her work and confront a male friend and co-worker accusing him of having an affair with her. How embarrassing that must have been if she is innocent. Any expression of love from you does not supersede the negative treatment you subject her to. So she feels bad about herself as a woman and a wife, isn't feeling your love, is lonely for someone to talk to but doesn't really want to talk to a close friend (too embarrassed) so she strikes up a friendship with a man at work. Sure he may have had ulterior motives or he may have just felt sorry for an unhappy woman that he admires and views as a good woman, mother, and wife. His interest in more may have developed over time. Or, he may have needed someone to talk to about his crappy marriage and he found a kindred spirit in your wife. It could have started very innocently. It may still be innocent. He can compliment her and be thankful for her without it being a romantic involvement. Just as you've found solace here, they found solace in one another. It might not continue to be innocent - if they continue to bond over their "jealous spouses" something could develop.

I believe, that nothing will develop if it has not already. I do actually believe that she is a good girl. See my posts from before - I have always said that one of the reasons we fell in love - was because I found her to be awesome in terms of just talking to. She was "one of the guys". She was and still is cool. And yes, I stopped treating her as a partner and took her for granted. I feel that while each issue that she has with me might not be that big of a deal when taken separately, all of them combined - are.

 

TRIPPI: Those who know me - know that I love my wife. But I also know what needs to be changed. I stopped drinking. Calmed down (I guess I was always somewhat hyper), trying to focus on work more; of course spend a ton of time with the kids.

 

Lets back up, when I graduated from law school, I got a job with a pretty large firm and was making very good money (six figures) BUT was gone from 7 to 9 and usually worked on Saturdays. Traveled a lot; attended a lot of social gatherings. Had a wonderful femalefriend at work (STOP right there - NOTHING was happening - NOT my type, 2 kids, husband a good friend). Wife was always jealous of me spending time with this girl. Again - I was not even remotely interested in her sexually. But - we worked together and did spend a lot of time together. NOW - ALL of our contact stopped outside of the office. (Actually we tried to hang out a couple of times as families - with Ss and kids). Why did I leave the firm? W was complaining that I was not spending time with the kids; I was always gone... So - I went out on my own...

 

Am I making excuses? Probably - but any R or M - takes two. I felt that she did not communicate (and she has admitted it; but still says that I should have understood what she wanted). Another example - I am the stricter parent. BUT - when she is not around - I don't have to raise my voice (I do not yell) or even tell the kids no - they know what they are supposed to do. There is no fighting, no whining. We always have fun. Kids LOVE me. When W is around - kids are out of control. Why? She lets them do everything. We do not have a "united" front when it comes to parenting. She has no problems questioning/reversing my decisions in front of the kids. I would NEVER do that to her - EVEN if she was wrong. Kids have to know that if a parent says smth - it is a rule that the other parent will also enforce. (I always tell her - if you don't agree w smth I say to the kids - tell me but not in front of the kids - and let me correct the decision, if I am wrong, MYSELF, just so my authority w them does not suffer. Example: Daddy, I want ice-cream. No, you have a sore throat. Right away: "Mommy I want ice-cream". "Ok!".... Kills me. (Her response to me bringing that up - we do not agree on anything. Even on how to raise them! On THAT, I am even supported by all of the ILs, for crying out loud.)

 

Anyways, today she FINALLY stated what exactly she sees as problems with me - Jealousy, Money, Drinking - and not necessarily in that order. I told her that two - $ and Drinking - can be fixed, but jealousy - I can address it, but would need her help to overcome it. I am old fashioned - I do not like sharing my woman.

 

Trippi - I would not be here if I did not love her. I have always said to her that I love her; always got her flowers/gifts; remembered holidays; was always affectionate towards her. At least I can't be accused of not doing that. I love my wife, with all of her imperfections and character flaws. And yes, at the end of the day, I want my family to be together, no matter what. Why else do I love her? My kids love her - why shouldn't I? BTW - we have been together for 8 years - I still find her hot as hell. She turns me on like no other woman has.

 

In terms of respect - WHY would moving out or moving to a friend's house be bad?

Edited July 1, 2010 by WhyHope

[Gunny376]

Back before the Internet ~ LS and such forums I told my X that at the very least she knew she was having a EA.

 

That before I ever read a book with the term in it, before the Internet, and such forums as such.

 

You know how I knew? You don't sleep with someone for twelve years and experience emotional withdrawal in the pit of your stomach ~ without knowing!

[Windsurf66]

To qualify my last post: Inform her that you will do anything to save the marriage.

 

Until she has regained your trust and confidence there is nothing further to discuss!

 

Totally agree. The wife started with the flirting, the lies and EA. And she had the cheek to blame the husband, who really loves her, for his suspicions and jealousy. I guess cheaters (or potential cheaters) are fundamentally self-centred and would always try to justify their actions

[Windsurf66]

It is what it is. She does not look at it as an EA. Knowing her - she does not realize that it actually is. No guy will be friends w a girl without having a temptation in his mind.

 

I am sure she knows but stubbornly refused to admit. I am sure she knows what the guy wants, and she is NOT stopping it because she likes the attention, and she is keeping him as a backup. No wife, who vaues her marriage, will continue to have unnecessary contact with a potential OM, which can end her marriage.

[Windsurf66]

And once again, NO, DO NOT MOVE OUT of your own house. Protect your kids, and yourself. If she wants her space to explore her "friendship" with the OM or for whatever reasons, she CAN MOVE OUT Herself. You will find strange people visiting your OWN HOUSE, once you moved out

[trippi1432]

TRIPPI: Those who know me - know that I love my wife. But I also know what needs to be changed. I stopped drinking. Calmed down (I guess I was always somewhat hyper), trying to focus on work more; of course spend a ton of time with the kids.

 

Lets back up, when I graduated from law school, I got a job with a pretty large firm and was making very good money (six figures) BUT was gone from 7 to 9 and usually worked on Saturdays. Traveled a lot; attended a lot of social gatherings. Had a wonderful femalefriend at work (STOP right there - NOTHING was happening - NOT my type, 2 kids, husband a good friend). Wife was always jealous of me spending time with this girl. Again - I was not even remotely interested in her sexually. But - we worked together and did spend a lot of time together. NOW - ALL of our contact stopped outside of the office. (Actually we tried to hang out a couple of times as families - with Ss and kids). Why did I leave the firm? W was complaining that I was not spending time with the kids; I was always gone... So - I went out on my own...

 

Am I making excuses? Probably - but any R or M - takes two. I felt that she did not communicate (and she has admitted it; but still says that I should have understood what she wanted). Another example - I am the stricter parent. BUT - when she is not around - I don't have to raise my voice (I do not yell) or even tell the kids no - they know what they are supposed to do. There is no fighting, no whining. We always have fun. Kids LOVE me. When W is around - kids are out of control. Why? She lets them do everything. We do not have a "united" front when it comes to parenting. She has no problems questioning/reversing my decisions in front of the kids. I would NEVER do that to her - EVEN if she was wrong. Kids have to know that if a parent says smth - it is a rule that the other parent will also enforce. (I always tell her - if you don't agree w smth I say to the kids - tell me but not in front of the kids - and let me correct the decision, if I am wrong, MYSELF, just so my authority w them does not suffer. Example: Daddy, I want ice-cream. No, you have a sore throat. Right away: "Mommy I want ice-cream". "Ok!".... Kills me. (Her response to me bringing that up - we do not agree on anything. Even on how to raise them! On THAT, I am even supported by all of the ILs, for crying out loud.)

 

Anyways, today she FINALLY stated what exactly she sees as problems with me - Jealousy, Money, Drinking - and not necessarily in that order. I told her that two - $ and Drinking - can be fixed, but jealousy - I can address it, but would need her help to overcome it. I am old fashioned - I do not like sharing my woman.

 

Trippi - I would not be here if I did not love her. I have always said to her that I love her; always got her flowers/gifts; remembered holidays; was always affectionate towards her. At least I can't be accused of not doing that. I love my wife, with all of her imperfections and character flaws. And yes, at the end of the day, I want my family to be together, no matter what. Why else do I love her? My kids love her - why shouldn't I? BTW - we have been together for 8 years - I still find her hot as hell. She turns me on like no other woman has.

 

In terms of respect - WHY would moving out or moving to a friend's house be bad?

 

Why_Hope,

 

Thanks - this is even better info.

 

From what I can tell:

 

1. Yes, you both need to be on the same page on the parenting front (will be HUGE issues down the road, believe me, been there - done that).

 

2. I think that you BOTH have jealousy issues that need to be addressed (not just yours)

 

3. If you have stopped the drinking, shouldn't have anything to prove (how would moving out resolve that issue or show any respect)?

 

4. Both of you worry about money way too much, this should never be the basis to the success of a marriage (for richer, for poorer).

 

5. If one of you needs to leave the house, why can't she go live with her parents across the street for a trial separation? Seems more plausible to me if she wants to SEE changes in you.

 

Just some thoughts.....

[WhyHope]

You are absolutely right Trippi.

 

I am thinking about writing a letter to her (past two days were bad in terms of contact and R talk).

 

Smth. along the lines of - I have decided - I am staying, not for the kids, but for myself. I want to change and am changing. Does not matter whether we work or not - I would be doing that for myself. Problems that you have w me - I have forgiven my own faults and decided to move on from them. NONE of the things are that GREAT that can not be changed.

 

While I love you, I can not change your mind or convince you of anything by just words alone. I am acting, not acting out anymore...

 

Any other suggestions?

[trippi1432]

You are absolutely right Trippi.

 

I am thinking about writing a letter to her (past two days were bad in terms of contact and R talk).

 

Smth. along the lines of - I have decided - I am staying. not for the kids, but for myself. I want to change and am changing, this is something that I know I need to do for myself . Does not matter whether we work or not - I can understand your feelings, but it does not mean that I need to completely agree with them. I would be doing that for myself. I know that in the past, we have had problems. that you have w me - I have forgiven my own faults and decided to move on from them.While I know that I have faults, I have found that I must move forward and forgive myself for those issues in order to change for the better. I still maintain that there is much we can both do together to make this a great marriage. NONE of the things are that GREAT that can not be changed. (was a little confused on that...sorry)

 

While I love you, I can not change your mind or convince you of anything by just words alone. I am acting, not acting out anymore...I intend to give you the space you need in our home but ask that we defer any decisions until you have had more time to think. When you are ready, I am here.

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Not bad at all....

 

Just my suggestions above....take what you feel is relevant. My suggestion is to put the owness of forgiveness on yourself for the things that you felt she wants you to change.....When you tell her that you have forgiven yourself....hopefully this prompts her to take a look at her own behavior.

 

To get closure with my ex, I told him that he needed to forgive himself and that I have already forgiven myself for what went wrong in our marriage. Self-compassion is okay....it's not placing blame on the other party and should not create a conflict. If she is a compassionate person, she will look to herself for what she needs to forgive herself for. Believe me, my ex's whole demeanor changed in that conversation.....had we still been under the same roof....who knows.

 

What you looking for here is the "closure" of who she saw before and a new and better man wanting to make his marriage work....not just for the kids, but for her as well. Kids grow up and leave home eventually.....where do you see yourself with her 25 years from now?

Edited July 2, 2010 by trippi1432

[WhyHope]

DEVELOPMENT: I am looking for a place. Will move probably this week. Comments? (It was her moving w kids vs. me moving out)

[imagine]

How will you protect yourself so that this arrangement is not perceived as desertion. Would it not be better if she finds a place so that desertion comes from her side.