tojaz Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Just read your thread Why_Hope, and my first reply is going to be short and simple.... Quit being a F***ing lawyer to your wife!!!!!!! The instances are too many I will note bother quoting them. You are not putting her on trial, and she is not a faceless client..... or defendant. THIS IS YOUR WIFE!...... for now. Read your posts and see if you catch what i mean. More later, keep posting. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 GUNNY: Thank you for advice. I loved the paralysis by analysis line. That is exactly what I have. Now, stress - I TRY to be as stress free as possible. But obviously I am not perfect. Jealousy - I GAVE THAT UP! Can't, won't... I see that there is ABSOLUTELY NO point in being jealous. Let's say she is cheating - then she will end the marriage. Let's say she is not - then my jealousy will do that. No win situation. I feel that I have made a step towards changing my outlook on this situation. I no longer want answers. I no longer want to fix this overnight (I do, but I realize that it may take months or years to do that). Does it creep up? Of course. But whether w IC or wt - I need to learn how to cope with my emotions. I do it at work, why can't I do it at home? I have gotten a LOT better at that. Her words no longer sting. Her actions? I want to say that they do not either. But I would be lying. As you probably saw from my previous post - we did separate for a month. DID NOT HELP! Made things worse. (I decided to move in). Why? Simply because I did not leave her alone. Not in terms of speaking/not speaking but more with my jealous rants; R questions and other BS. If I can manage my feelings at home - then I can manage them anywhere. Distance will not help. As for "why" I will stay - she does not believe that I will change. Only by staying, I feel, she will notice the change. Plus, I do not want to miss a day in the life of my kids. ((If we do get divorced, minds as well get some more days in with them now). Flirting - there are limits and boundaries to everything. Her flirting with OM went beyond those. There were other instances of her crossing the boundaries during the M. I let go. I never went as nuts as I did now. Self-confidence: Hell yes I am lacking it now. She has been the breadwinner. It sucks, trust me. But I have to keep plugging away and hopefully accomplish something. Not for her, for myself. I stoped living "for OUR R". I have started worrying about myself and my kids only. She is fine. If and when she comes around - I can't control that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 If you minimise the interaction with yr wife and stop bugging her, why is there still a need for either one of you to move out? I feel its very disrespectful of a wife to keep asking her husband to move out and be away from the children. Does she have the right? If she is not happy and wants out, go ahead for a divorce. Why prolong the torture by using incremental steps towards a divorce? When you are away from her, you will start thinking what she is up to every min you are away from her. Well, for the lies, my opinion is that a spouse should not use white lies to keep the other sane, but he/she should use proper actions to build trust in the marriage, e.g. not lying to you in order to go out with another guy, why not just invite you along together with the guy if there is nothing to hide? Or why not just be honest and said there is a prior appointment. Sorry but lying is also disrespectful towards you and the marriage. Perhaps you are a beta male and can accept such things. For me personally, no way I can accept disrespect. I never in a million years thought that I would be able to accept or "take" anything. Look at me now. That is exactly why I am trying to change. As for her asking me to move out - "husbands are the ones that are supposed to leave". Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Actually, women are only as complicated as the company they keep (or are married to)....come on!! So, there was a recent OW....yes, if I were your wife, I would be upset as well. And the comment in bold above is to reference that it takes two people to argue.....you, being the attorney, it's in your nature...and I get the feeling you enjoy it a bit. If you would disengage the argument by stopping or leaving the room once it starts, she would also disengage the argument. She is allowed to have a perspective about the relationship as well. Read Gunny's post below.....it's very enlightening and Gunny has been on these boards for a long time, one of the most knowledgeable posters here. Yes she is allowed, as long as it is similar to mine! )))) Joking. I have been disengaging majority of the arguments. When before, I would engage in every single one (and again, not really arguments - conversations about our R), now, I have engaged in exactly 1in the past month or so. Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Just read your thread Why_Hope, and my first reply is going to be short and simple.... Quit being a F***ing lawyer to your wife!!!!!!! The instances are too many I will note bother quoting them. You are not putting her on trial, and she is not a faceless client..... or defendant. THIS IS YOUR WIFE!...... for now. Read your posts and see if you catch what i mean. More later, keep posting. TOJAZ I am not. I am just a Husband who is devastated. Why do u think I have been asking the questions? To hopefully reason with her that she is wrong. I got it now - she will think whatever she thinks. There is nothing that I can do about that at this moment. I can not "win" this with words. I must prove by acting the right way. I kinda took offense to the "faceless" client comment. I don't treat them as faceless.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Today: Kinda tough. Said good morning. She asked who is picking up the kids. Had another short conversation later on(about nothing). I am being as cheerful as possible). Have to stop by her office to pick up a file. Should I do it? Do I show up unannounced? Call ahead of time? Link to post Share on other sites
skywriter Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) WHYHOPE, I've been following your post and my heart goes out to you. You do indeed seem a bit highstrung, (with good cause) but also maybe this is also your "norm". Just try and calm down before reacting. Listen and be sincerely attentive. Also, it's my experience first hand that when a person decides they're done, as my ex-H did with our seventeen yr marriage. I couldn't change his mind. He "stonewalled" me. I am impressed with all your efforts to save your family. Just continue in your sincere efforts. To me, when you can honestly say you've done everything possible to make it work. You've exhausted your efforts and what will be will be. ....and why can't you show up at her office unannounced, to pick up a file for goodness sakes? Edited June 15, 2010 by skywriter spelling! Link to post Share on other sites
Windsurf66 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I never in a million years thought that I would be able to accept or "take" anything. Look at me now. That is exactly why I am trying to change. As for her asking me to move out - "husbands are the ones that are supposed to leave". Her actions (flirting beyond the boundaries, asking you to move out, refusing to go for MC) are simply disrespectful towards you and yr marriage. If you have already done yr part by changing yr behavior, its time to be assertive and give her an ultimatum to either go for MC to work on the marriage, or divorce. Why prolong the uncertainty and the pain? I have seen too many wimps on this site being manipulated by their spouses. Its time to man up Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 WHYHOPE, I've been following your post and my heart goes out to you. You do indeed seem a bit highstrung, (with good cause) but also maybe this is also your "norm". Just try and calm down before reacting. Listen and be sincerely attentive. Also, it's my experience first hand that when a person decides they're done, as my ex-H did with our seventeen yr marriage. I couldn't change his mind. He "stonewalled" me. I am impressed with all your efforts to save your family. Just continue in your sincere efforts. To me, when you can honestly say you've done everything possible to make it work. You've exhausted your efforts and what will be will be. ....and why can't you show up at her office unannounced, to pick up a file for goodness sakes? Is she done? That's the question that I keep asking myself. Why would she give me hope - "you move out, change, and then hopefully it will work". I did go to her office unannounced. She put her phone on silent as soon as I walked in. A text came in like 5 secs later. I asked her who it was - my friend, just chatting. Asked her to see - "I should not have even told you that it was my friend". Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Her actions (flirting beyond the boundaries, asking you to move out, refusing to go for MC) are simply disrespectful towards you and yr marriage. If you have already done yr part by changing yr behavior, its time to be assertive and give her an ultimatum to either go for MC to work on the marriage, or divorce. Why prolong the uncertainty and the pain? I have seen too many wimps on this site being manipulated by their spouses. Its time to man up Why? Because I love her. But I do hate acting like a wimp Link to post Share on other sites
Windsurf66 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Why? Because I love her. But I do hate acting like a wimp Yes you love her, we can tell. But she does not love you as much, and does not love u enough to reassure your insecurities through her actions. She continues to flirt and asked you to move out If she really loves you, she will not ask you to move out. If she loves you, you cannot ask her anything wrong (i.e. she will have the patience to answer you any question and reassure you). But If she doesn't love you, you cannot ask her anything right (i.e. anything you ask her will be miscontrued as controlling her) Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 I guess its over then? Link to post Share on other sites
Windsurf66 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I guess its over then? I guess you have to work it out together with yr wife through MC and decide yrself if you still want to live like this. I really dun see how you moving out will help in the situation; it will only help her if she is having an affair Link to post Share on other sites
skywriter Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 WhyHope!!!! (((Hugs))) You've been writing abt how much self improvement you've been trying to make and now this... I don't know what to say to you. Except.... to say as I was thinking in my last post and didn't really say. You can't save your marriage alone....You just can't. Your W needs to woman up now and lay it all out honestly. ...and stop using your faults as reasons for dissolving your marriage. She has the priviledge of knowing that she has a H willing to do his part in keeping the home together. Not to mention that if there is a silent intruder in your marriage, this changes everything for you. I hope for you all that you are hoping for. Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 I guess you have to work it out together with yr wife through MC and decide yrself if you still want to live like this. I really dun see how you moving out will help in the situation; it will only help her if she is having an affair That's what I honestly do not see. And I still do not think that she is having an affair. I feel its more of my "twisted" mind badgering her into NOT showing me the phone and hiding things from me. I have to accept that she is independent. I have to end my dependency on her Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 WhyHope!!!! (((Hugs))) You've been writing abt how much self improvement you've been trying to make and now this... I don't know what to say to you. Except.... to say as I was thinking in my last post and didn't really say. You can't save your marriage alone....You just can't. Your W needs to woman up now and lay it all out honestly. ...and stop using your faults as reasons for dissolving your marriage. She has the priviledge of knowing that she has a H willing to do his part in keeping the home together. Not to mention that if there is a silent intruder in your marriage, this changes everything for you. I hope for you all that you are hoping for. Do you think its possible that she is just "testing" me? Trying to change me? Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Actually thinking about calling her and talking with her. How? About what? This is horrible.... Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Hi WhyHope, I have to agree with Tojaz in one respect, and it's something I have been trying to point out as well.....you are a lawyer during the day, why can't you act differently when you come home? Because you are still being a lawyer. You love the debate, you are even doing it on here....sorry, if I am being blunt. I see two things going on....you had an OW (whether it was a one night stand or an emotional affair, don't know) four months ago, she now has a "friend" and you are unsure where that is heading. Maybe she is trying to make you jealous because of your previous indiscretion, maybe not. If you really want to save the marriage, you are going to have to work on you for now.....what have you done to do that so far? Link to post Share on other sites
SRV Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Do you think its possible that she is just "testing" me? Trying to change me? I would suggest that you read and re-read Gunny's post if anything. Just as an aside, if you really want your wife back, you really need to take a step back, I would suggest many steps back. You need to reassess yourself and behavior as a husband, father, spouse, partner, lawyer and stop badgering her. What you are actually doing, if you haven't done enough, is pushing her further and further away. Concentrate on you and the kids, do not talk about the relationship with her. Be cordial and nice to her as mother of your kids. Best of luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Hi WhyHope, I have to agree with Tojaz in one respect, and it's something I have been trying to point out as well.....you are a lawyer during the day, why can't you act differently when you come home? Because you are still being a lawyer. You love the debate, you are even doing it on here....sorry, if I am being blunt. I see two things going on....you had an OW (whether it was a one night stand or an emotional affair, don't know) four months ago, she now has a "friend" and you are unsure where that is heading. Maybe she is trying to make you jealous because of your previous indiscretion, maybe not. If you really want to save the marriage, you are going to have to work on you for now.....what have you done to do that so far? Trippi! There was no other OW. I had a couple (literally may be 5) phone conversations with a woman I met. EA - NO, I had 0 feelings for her. Just a person to spill my guts to. This whole thing started because she had a "friend"... Should I call her? (For some reason she seems responsive today) Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 I would suggest that you read and re-read Gunny's post if anything. Just as an aside, if you really want your wife back, you really need to take a step back, I would suggest many steps back. You need to reassess yourself and behavior as a husband, father, spouse, partner, lawyer and stop badgering her. What you are actually doing, if you haven't done enough, is pushing her further and further away. Concentrate on you and the kids, do not talk about the relationship with her. Be cordial and nice to her as mother of your kids. Best of luck! Did that work for anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Trippi! There was no other OW. I had a couple (literally may be 5) phone conversations with a woman I met. EA - NO, I had 0 feelings for her. Just a person to spill my guts to. This whole thing started because she had a "friend"... Should I call her? (For some reason she seems responsive today) I would say no, do not call her....leave her alone for the day...if things are going well, let them stay well and please read the other advice you have received on here. Gunny's advice has been the best so far, and if you keep "chasing" her, you are going to run her away. This is not the same situation where you pursue the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with...you have already done that....this is you wanting to preserve your marriage with the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. There is a huge difference, you need to relax, breath and take a few steps back to assess what is going on and what your next steps should be (and I would suggest calm, well-thought out steps), Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Did that work for anyone? WhyHope - If it didn't work for anyone, it was because they did exactly what you are doing right now....they rushed it all and lost the battle. The advice you are getting on here are from people who wish they had did these things instead of destroying what they had.....lessons learned. Link to post Share on other sites
SRV Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Did that work for anyone? Its the closest you will get if you stand any chance, continue with the same ol', I can guarantee you the opposite. Go through the forum and stories and it will be self evident. Please read the 180, in place of the NC, replace it with LC since you have kids together. Link to post Share on other sites
Author WhyHope Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Its the closest you will get if you stand any chance, continue with the same ol', I can guarantee you the opposite. Go through the forum and stories and it will be self evident. Please read the 180, in place of the NC, replace it with LC since you have kids together. Man, its difficult as heck. Anything that I say to her - she treats w caution and "over-reads" it. Same as I do I guess Link to post Share on other sites
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