Stuck!

[Windsurf66]

Is she done? That's the question that I keep asking myself. Why would she give me hope - "you move out, change, and then hopefully it will work".

 

I did go to her office unannounced. She put her phone on silent as soon as I walked in. A text came in like 5 secs later. I asked her who it was - my friend, just chatting. Asked her to see - "I should not have even told you that it was my friend".

 

I missed this reply earlier on. I have seen this behaviour b4 in an ex. She turned her Hp to silent when around me, and lied that it was because she did not want the sound to disturb us when we were sleeping. But i found out later that it was because she was expecting text from someone and that someone turns out a few months later to be the person that she was cheating with.

 

Your wife was definitely expecting a text from soneone, and deliberately tried to hide the text from you. If just innocent chatting with a girlfriend, then why the need to hide?

 

To the OP, i dun think there is anything wrong with you. I think your wife started the whole thing to mess with you mentally, by lying about meeting some guy and her subsequent actions of hiding things. Your suspicious behavour, altho not good, was triggered by her, whether intentionally or not.

[RedDawn]

Hire a PI and get this torture over with. You do that for your clients, do it for yourself. I'm with Windsurf, she's up to no good. Women never leave unless there's someone waiting in the wings.

[trippi1432]

Interesting.....Windsurf66 and Red Dawn.....where are your stories...have you both already been through the learning curve, the rollercoaster ride and the impending divorce.....what have you learned so far since I do not see any threads started by either of you...only comments (most negative).

 

Sorry to hi-jack your thread WhyHope....I think that you are here in an effort to save your marriage if I am correct, not sabotage it....right?

 

WhyHope, if you want to read the stories of some of the people who have posted to your thread, you can click on their name in the post, choose to look at the profile and then got to statistics to see the threads they have started....not just what they have responded to. Going with the threads they have started will give you a better idea of what's behind the story, how long they have been here and what they have learned.

[WhyHope]

Wasn't concerned about your clients man. I meant to not treat your wife like one. I see in your posts a lot of back and forth between you and her, but not much real communication. She makes her requests and defends her side and you do the same. Its a stalemate.

 

Going through this, it is everybodys instinct to "win" but that is not the goal, nor should it ever be in marriage. Rather then defending your position, sit down and listen to hers, and really listen and try to understand without saying anything in rebuttal. Let her know shes being heard and respect her right to feel that way rather then trying to change her mind.

 

She is unwilling to sit down and talk. "We talked too much already". If we talk - her point is - "I am done. I want you to move out". Do you want divorce? Lately the answer has been "yes". But no movement on her side. You can't imagine how tired I am of this situation. She talks to my friends and her point is - listen, he is not changing. I am here. I want him to move out and prove me wrong. But, damn it - she is the one that has and EA, NOT me. No matter what I did, I did not force her to say "I do". For crying out loud, I wasn't the one that proposed. She suggested that we get married. I did not break my vows.

 

We all have a crapload of things to change about ourselves, theres always something we can improve on, do better etc, but do you seriously think your the worst thing for her? Sheesh man, cut your self some slack! In a break up, separation, divorce. Both parties carry their part, but they should only carry their part. I spent an awful lot of time looking at the things i should change, but i also came to see that a lot of things my former soulmate accused me of where 100% BS. In the end, regardless of what you think you did wrong, unless you hit her, cheated on her, etc. There are much worse men in the world, and she is the one that decided to shift out rather then face those things head on.

To tell you the truth, it was just a BS statement. I have NEVER hit her (drinking, not drinking) - and do not plan on ever doing it. Did I want to? Last fight that she escalated in front of the kids - heck yeah that thought crossed my mind. I told her about it. MY KIDS WERE INVOLVED! Of course I reacted and felt that. But she is also the mother of my kids - so no, under no circumstances smth like that would have happen. Alcohol - I drink (past?) I like to do it with a couple of my close friends. We do get plastered. We act like we are 20 again. But we try to do it AWAY from families; and away from people - i.e. mountain cabin; fishing trip... Is it bad? Its immature. Cheating - NO, no EAs, no PAs. Flirting? Yes. Inappropriate? May be. But I never let it get into my home.

 

Take stock, own whats yours, and lay the rest at her feet.

 

 

TOJAZ

 

 

Appreciate the comment

[WhyHope]

You mentioned before that she was afraid that you will ruin her financially if divorce? That ties in with "....afraid of your reaction". I think she might be planning for a divorce and will execute it when the time is right. Some women decided to end the marriage years ago, and do alot of planning before dropping the real bomb.

 

 

It is possible that she has already made up her mind. On the other hand why then sleep with me? Why give me hope?

 

My reaction? It has been pathetic; I have not threatened and have actually clearly told her - I will not take anything in the divorce - go ahead. Kids are my treasure. I think that the only thing that is holding her back is that she is hoping that I will change. She cares for the kids too much. Possible?

[WhyHope]

I missed this reply earlier on. I have seen this behaviour b4 in an ex. She turned her Hp to silent when around me, and lied that it was because she did not want the sound to disturb us when we were sleeping. But i found out later that it was because she was expecting text from someone and that someone turns out a few months later to be the person that she was cheating with.

 

Your wife was definitely expecting a text from soneone, and deliberately tried to hide the text from you. If just innocent chatting with a girlfriend, then why the need to hide?

 

To the OP, i dun think there is anything wrong with you. I think your wife started the whole thing to mess with you mentally, by lying about meeting some guy and her subsequent actions of hiding things. Your suspicious behavour, altho not good, was triggered by her, whether intentionally or not.

 

 

She has not been willing to show messages before. When I insisted - she did - and I was wrong. But am I just talking myself into believing that she is a good girl? OM - M w 2 young kids. All I wanna do is kick his a$s. He knows damn well that he is messing with my family

[trippi1432]

It is possible that she has already made up her mind. On the other hand why then sleep with me? Why give me hope?

 

My reaction? It has been pathetic; I have not threatened and have actually clearly told her - I will not take anything in the divorce - go ahead. Kids are my treasure. I think that the only thing that is holding her back is that she is hoping that I will change. She cares for the kids too much. Possible?

 

WhyHope: What has she specifically said that you need to change to make the marriage work?

[WhyHope]

Interesting.....Windsurf66 and Red Dawn.....where are your stories...have you both already been through the learning curve, the rollercoaster ride and the impending divorce.....what have you learned so far since I do not see any threads started by either of you...only comments (most negative).

 

Sorry to hi-jack your thread WhyHope....I think that you are here in an effort to save your marriage if I am correct, not sabotage it....right?

 

WhyHope, if you want to read the stories of some of the people who have posted to your thread, you can click on their name in the post, choose to look at the profile and then got to statistics to see the threads they have started....not just what they have responded to. Going with the threads they have started will give you a better idea of what's behind the story, how long they have been here and what they have learned.

 

 

Trippi:

 

I am on a roller coaster. I know that I must NOT confront her. BUT... She is never reassuring. (Possibly tired of doing it too often???). He is her partner. She has to talk to him. Past month - 1 phone call (cell obviously), no TXTs, but she has a Blackberry - blackberry messenger communication can not be tracked. She refused to delete him from her contacts. Here is a prime example for you - Friday, she calls me at 5:45 - she is on her way to pick up the kids. Daycare, at best is 15 mins away from her work. At 6:15 she gets a phone call from daycare. She gets home at like 6:40. At 6:30 she got a phone call from him. Possibly met for coffee? Yes. Possibly he called her about some work related stuff? Yes. She stopped by somewhere to do smth between work and daycare? Yes... But I AM running around all paranoid. If I ask her - I am crazy in her eyes. Why do I have the need to ask? Because initially she never explained anything to me. And even after promising to cease all inessential contact w OM, she continued to contact him. (I caught her and confronted her). Self-confidence for me??? Sure, that is gone w her.

[WhyHope]

WhyHope: What has she specifically said that you need to change to make the marriage work?

 

Drinking, money, contacting her...

[trippi1432]

Drinking, money, contacting her...

 

Drinking....check...sure you can and are working on that from your posts above.

 

Money - what does she mean by that?

 

Contacting her.....is she referring to the content of the contact or the frequency?

[Windsurf66]

Interesting.....Windsurf66 and Red Dawn.....where are your stories...have you both already been through the learning curve, the rollercoaster ride and the impending divorce.....what have you learned so far since I do not see any threads started by either of you...only comments (most negative).

 

Sorry to hi-jack your thread WhyHope....I think that you are here in an effort to save your marriage if I am correct, not sabotage it....right?

 

WhyHope, if you want to read the stories of some of the people who have posted to your thread, you can click on their name in the post, choose to look at the profile and then got to statistics to see the threads they have started....not just what they have responded to. Going with the threads they have started will give you a better idea of what's behind the story, how long they have been here and what they have learned.

 

dear Trippi,

 

Is there a rule in LS that states that someone must post their own story first, before they are qualified to give advice?

 

Its everybody's rights to give their advice and up to the OP to discern which is more appropriate for their situation. If our advice is opposed to your advice, and you dun like, dun read it

[WhyHope]

Drinking....check...sure you can and are working on that from your posts above.

 

Money - what does she mean by that?

 

Contacting her.....is she referring to the content of the contact or the frequency?

 

When this whole thing started I did not drink (at all) for 3 1/2 months. Then reacted to something she did and went out to my friend's house... Showed up at 2 am... Do I need to drink? NO... Haven't had a drink in 2 months...

 

Money - need to make more. I am under 6 figures, she expects me to make enough to cover all of the expenses in the family. I have to agree with that. I want a new house, I want her to work less.

 

Contacting her - BOTH I have been texting/calling constantly. My bad days? 10-12 phone calls a day. Lately - past 2 weeks. May be 1 or 2. (Before all of this started between the two of us we had about 6-7 a day). Content - I try to find out where she is and with whom... I know she is annoyed by that. I still ask ... Past week - none of that.

[WhyHope]

dear Trippi,

 

Is there a rule in LS that states that someone must post their own story first, before they are qualified to give advice?

 

Its everybody's rights to give their advice and up to the OP to discern which is more appropriate for their situation. If our advice is opposed to your advice, and you dun like, dun read it

 

She is or she is not having an affair - would have REALLY mattered 4 months ago... Now I am ok (relatively speaking) and I am willing to fore-go the answers to my questions and forgive (but not forget) outright. Do I want to know?? Yes. Is it necessary - I really trully hope that no; I do not need that knowledge...

[Windsurf66]

It is possible that she has already made up her mind. On the other hand why then sleep with me? Why give me hope?

 

My reaction? It has been pathetic; I have not threatened and have actually clearly told her - I will not take anything in the divorce - go ahead. Kids are my treasure. I think that the only thing that is holding her back is that she is hoping that I will change. She cares for the kids too much. Possible?

 

Is she still sleeping with you currently? Currently, as in for the past 1 or 2 weeks. If it was just a couple of times, in the past few months, dun read too much into it. Maybe she was just relieving her own urge.

 

Yes, it is possible that she is still holding out some hope. But it is also possible the other way, i.e. that she is planning a divorce.

 

I guess the main issue now is, she wants you to move out to prove something to her. But you cant see what is there to prove by moving out. Personally, I wun move because firstly, I need to see the kids everyday. Secondly, I just dun see how it will help. If she doesn't want you to talk to her, she could state so.

[Windsurf66]

She has not been willing to show messages before. When I insisted - she did - and I was wrong. But am I just talking myself into believing that she is a good girl? OM - M w 2 young kids. All I wanna do is kick his a$s. He knows damn well that he is messing with my family

 

Have you seen all her messages? Seeing a few innocent texts does not imply that all texts (including unseen ones) are innocent

 

Anyway, if she is not willing to be transparent of her txts, thats a red flag

[Windsurf66]

Trippi:

 

I am on a roller coaster. I know that I must NOT confront her. BUT... She is never reassuring. (Possibly tired of doing it too often???). He is her partner. She has to talk to him. Past month - 1 phone call (cell obviously), no TXTs, but she has a Blackberry - blackberry messenger communication can not be tracked. She refused to delete him from her contacts. Here is a prime example for you - Friday, she calls me at 5:45 - she is on her way to pick up the kids. Daycare, at best is 15 mins away from her work. At 6:15 she gets a phone call from daycare. She gets home at like 6:40. At 6:30 she got a phone call from him. Possibly met for coffee? Yes. Possibly he called her about some work related stuff? Yes. She stopped by somewhere to do smth between work and daycare? Yes... But I AM running around all paranoid. If I ask her - I am crazy in her eyes. Why do I have the need to ask? Because initially she never explained anything to me. And even after promising to cease all inessential contact w OM, she continued to contact him. (I caught her and confronted her). Self-confidence for me??? Sure, that is gone w her.

 

Well, how can she delete him from her contact if she has to work with him?

 

Cant really deduced whether she met him between daycare and reaching home. Probably not, since it was only 10 mins between his call and her reaching home.

 

"She continued to contact him"

For what reason? Just chatting?

[WhyHope]

Is she still sleeping with you currently? Currently, as in for the past 1 or 2 weeks. If it was just a couple of times, in the past few months, dun read too much into it. Maybe she was just relieving her own urge.

 

Yes, it is possible that she is still holding out some hope. But it is also possible the other way, i.e. that she is planning a divorce.

 

I guess the main issue now is, she wants you to move out to prove something to her. But you cant see what is there to prove by moving out. Personally, I wun move because firstly, I need to see the kids everyday. Secondly, I just dun see how it will help. If she doesn't want you to talk to her, she could state so.

 

No, no sex since I moved out. We were doing it like they do on the the discovery channel 3 days before I moved out. And it was GREAT. Not good, ok, but GREAT. Then... I moved out, stopped by 2 days later to see the kid - she was a different person. Cold, rock-like. "Lets keep all the conversations to issues involving kids..." Of course I did not. Sensing that we are growing more distant - I moved back in after a month away. Slowly but surely, with a TON of setbacks we started to reconnect. We shared a kiss 2 weeks ago (I forced the issue, BUT I am sure that she kissed me back and it was damn good). Some joking and sexual innuendo followed and if I did not have to leave, we would have ended up having sex. Fight in front of the kids 2 days later. She is cold as ever after that. BUT, still calls me (even though she really does not have to) once a day or so. After she talks to MIL or SIL - forget it - she is a completely different person. I feel if it was just the two of us and the kids. We would be fine. "I had sex with you; I kissed you; I was nice to you - JUST TO KEEP YOU SANE." WTF??? I am not a crazy lunatic. I do not break things, do not really scream - nothing when we argue. Best one ever - I kept talking to you because you were with the kids, just wanted to make sure that you would be taking care of them. AS OPPOSED TO WHAT??? What am I, Andrea Yates??? I feel that I am reading too much into everything. Her actions and her words; her little lies... Everything. I must stop. Just go with the flow. My life should not revolve around her.

 

I totally have the same outlook on moving out. I told her that I want to be with the kids everyday. Her point: "I am not keeping them away from you - you can see them anytime you want to." My response: "Thank you for letting me see MY kids. And if you think that seeing them once a day and living with them is the same - why don't you do it?"

[trippi1432]

When this whole thing started I did not drink (at all) for 3 1/2 months. Then reacted to something she did and went out to my friend's house... Showed up at 2 am... Do I need to drink? NO... Haven't had a drink in 2 months...

 

Good...

 

Money - need to make more. I am under 6 figures, she expects me to make enough to cover all of the expenses in the family. I have to agree with that. I want a new house, I want her to work less.

 

Was this an agreement that you both had when you were doing law school and opened your practice? For you to take over all the expenses and her to work less to be there more for the kids?

 

The interesting thing about it is if this was the agreement that you both had, how is being a single mom going to get her to working less and getting a new house....or is that just what you want for your family?

Contacting her - BOTH I have been texting/calling constantly. My bad days? 10-12 phone calls a day. Lately - past 2 weeks. May be 1 or 2. (Before all of this started between the two of us we had about 6-7 a day). Content - I try to find out where she is and with whom... I know she is annoyed by that. I still ask ... Past week - none of that.

 

Well, you have started doing the LC then and have satisfied that pretty much....It may be the content (jealousy issue again), but if she is having an EA and if it's with someone she works with.....that's going to be harder.

 

I will say that if you can find out if it is a physical affair, outing them is what is most typical. What do you know about this OM that you suspect? Is he married or does he have a girlfirend? You stated that she must have contact with him as he is her partner (is that correct), but you asked her to cut out the non-essential contact with him previously.....

[WhyHope]

Well, how can she delete him from her contact if she has to work with him?

 

Cant really deduced whether she met him between daycare and reaching home. Probably not, since it was only 10 mins between his call and her reaching home.

 

"She continued to contact him"

For what reason? Just chatting?

 

Blackberry messenger contacts - the untraceable application; not phone contacts. I mean I can get the records but only if the divorce is filed. The call, reasonably could have been placed AFTER they met. 10 mins between home and daycare BTW.

 

The things (emails) that I found between them, which led me to believe that they are having an EA were inappropriate (nothing sexual, just flirting and stuff) BUT, all of it was from him (flirting I mean), she did "encourage" it so to speak. And she did not stop it.

[WhyHope]

Well, you have started doing the LC then and have satisfied that pretty much....It may be the content (jealousy issue again), but if she is having an EA and if it's with someone she works with.....that's going to be harder.

 

I will say that if you can find out if it is a physical affair, outing them is what is most typical. What do you know about this OM that you suspect? Is he married or does he have a girlfirend? You stated that she must have contact with him as he is her partner (is that correct), but you asked her to cut out the non-essential contact with him previously.....

 

 

Not really an agreement - just a shared dream. Plus she does want to work less. OM - 34, married, 2 young kids. Outing to who? I am 99% sure its not physical, if anything at all. She treats it, I suspect, as a cool game. "He is a friend and nothing more, and my husband is a lunatic". (I did say that she has may be one GF and always had guy friends). Have to say that she does love attention from guys

[Windsurf66]

No, no sex since I moved out. We were doing it like they do on the the discovery channel 3 days before I moved out. And it was GREAT. Not good, ok, but GREAT. Then... I moved out, stopped by 2 days later to see the kid - she was a different person. Cold, rock-like. "Lets keep all the conversations to issues involving kids..." Of course I did not. Sensing that we are growing more distant - I moved back in after a month away. Slowly but surely, with a TON of setbacks we started to reconnect. We shared a kiss 2 weeks ago (I forced the issue, BUT I am sure that she kissed me back and it was damn good). Some joking and sexual innuendo followed and if I did not have to leave, we would have ended up having sex. Fight in front of the kids 2 days later. She is cold as ever after that. BUT, still calls me (even though she really does not have to) once a day or so. After she talks to MIL or SIL - forget it - she is a completely different person. I feel if it was just the two of us and the kids. We would be fine. "I had sex with you; I kissed you; I was nice to you - JUST TO KEEP YOU SANE." WTF??? I am not a crazy lunatic. I do not break things, do not really scream - nothing when we argue. Best one ever - I kept talking to you because you were with the kids, just wanted to make sure that you would be taking care of them. AS OPPOSED TO WHAT??? What am I, Andrea Yates??? I feel that I am reading too much into everything. Her actions and her words; her little lies... Everything. I must stop. Just go with the flow. My life should not revolve around her.

 

I totally have the same outlook on moving out. I told her that I want to be with the kids everyday. Her point: "I am not keeping them away from you - you can see them anytime you want to." My response: "Thank you for letting me see MY kids. And if you think that seeing them once a day and living with them is the same - why don't you do it?"

 

So i gathered that the last sex was 1 to 2 months ago, and nothing since. Well, I will not hold much significance to that, since she has changed quite a bit from that time.

 

I found it strange that she became more distant after you had moved out. Something could be going on. It made more sense that you should NOT move out again.

 

"I had sex with you; I kissed you; I was nice to you - JUST TO KEEP YOU SANE."

Perhaps she meant that she did not want you to be suspicious and jealous, and if she refrained from intimacy with you, it would only worsen your suspicions.

 

"Thank you for letting me see MY kids. And if you think that seeing them once a day and living with them is the same - why don't you do it?"

This is a good one. Why dun she move out if she wants her space to do her secret stuff. So is she still planning to move out herself?

[trippi1432]

dear Trippi,

 

Is there a rule in LS that states that someone must post their own story first, before they are qualified to give advice?

 

Its everybody's rights to give their advice and up to the OP to discern which is more appropriate for their situation. If our advice is opposed to your advice, and you dun like, dun read it

 

No, there is no rule that states you MUST post your own story first; however, to come straight out with some of the things that were general statements before asking questions....just not the kind of help some people need.

 

Now, having said this....and seeing your latest posts where you are asking more insightful questions to the OP...that is good...that is what we try to do here on LS.....help each other, it's not about who's advice is better.

[Windsurf66]

Blackberry messenger contacts - the untraceable application; not phone contacts. I mean I can get the records but only if the divorce is filed. The call, reasonably could have been placed AFTER they met. 10 mins between home and daycare BTW.

 

The things (emails) that I found between them, which led me to believe that they are having an EA were inappropriate (nothing sexual, just flirting and stuff) BUT, all of it was from him (flirting I mean), she did "encourage" it so to speak. And she did not stop it.

 

I guess living in a limbo sucks

 

She said she is done with the marriage, but not filing and keeping you hanging. And continues with her online flirting with her partner which messes with your head.

 

No, for me, flirting (even if its one-sided) and her not stopping it, is highly inappropriate and disrespectful towards you and the marriage.

[WhyHope]

So i gathered that the last sex was 1 to 2 months ago, and nothing since. Well, I will not hold much significance to that, since she has changed quite a bit from that time.

 

I found it strange that she became more distant after you had moved out. Something could be going on. It made more sense that you should NOT move out again.

 

"I had sex with you; I kissed you; I was nice to you - JUST TO KEEP YOU SANE."

Perhaps she meant that she did not want you to be suspicious and jealous, and if she refrained from intimacy with you, it would only worsen your suspicions.

 

"Thank you for letting me see MY kids. And if you think that seeing them once a day and living with them is the same - why don't you do it?"

This is a good one. Why dun she move out if she wants her space to do her secret stuff. So is she still planning to move out herself?

 

 

No, it was WEIRD - she became more distant literally the NEXT day. I am SURE that she spent every night at home.

 

Intimacy to lessen my suspicions? Possible. But she is also too stubborn and all she had to do was say no. Listen, I am not a rapist. And I would have chalked it up to the fact that we are having problems, no reason for us to do the nasty. (I find myself smiling when I am writing this - that's a positive!)

 

She I think, used it as a threat. If she wants to move out - I have no problem with that (I mean I do, but will not say no), EXCEPT for the fact that the kids are staying home.

[Windsurf66]

No, there is no rule that states you MUST post your own story first; however, to come straight out with some of the things that were general statements before asking questions....just not the kind of help some people need.

 

Now, having said this....and seeing your latest posts where you are asking more insightful questions to the OP...that is good...that is what we try to do here on LS.....help each other, it's not about who's advice is better.

 

Well, let the OP judged and decide for themself whether the help is what they need

 

You give own your views and advice, and mind your own business