Update on your situation/affair

[jj33]

The email was SO arrogant as if he were the boss of me and people who I have known for years come to him to see if he rates me... the nerve.

 

WF thank you for holding my hand today with this. LS is a godsend.

 

I think I give good advice to others but its harder when its your own situation.

 

As for finding him someone else, I think I should start encouraging these other women who crush on him to go for it... but it must be said that hes not looking so hot these days.

 

Stalking me seems to have taken it out of him... da*m that new girl really needs to up her game he should be looking young and vital and have a spring in his step!

[cavedweller]

jj33,

 

Go out and find you a new boyfriend...Once he finds out he will break off all contact and drop you like a 'hot potato'.

[jj33]

Im trying Cavedweller Im trying the candidates ahve been thin on the ground but I am trying

[2sunny]

Remember WF and JJ, that it isn't about what your MM is or isn't going to do or "planning to do" that means anything... It's only about how YOU participate that counts. He will always do what is best or comfortable for him... You need to do THAT for YOURSELF no matter what he is or isn't doing. Stick to your boundary, what he does is irrelevant at this juncture. It's the only way for YOU to find a happy path for yourself.

[White Flower]

Remember WF and JJ, that it isn't about what your MM is or isn't going to do or "planning to do" that means anything... It's only about how YOU participate that counts. He will always do what is best or comfortable for him... You need to do THAT for YOURSELF no matter what he is or isn't doing. Stick to your boundary, what he does is irrelevant at this juncture. It's the only way for YOU to find a happy path for yourself.

Exactly! I may be preparing for the worst (which already happened) and hoping for the best. Either way, I WIN!

[jj33]

Thanks Sunny unfortunately what he does or plans to do is very relevant to me as he seems to be h*llbent on causing me harm.

[fooled once]

YAs I said earlier, I am at peace with losing him which is why I ended it on Wednesday. .

 

so, if you dumped him, why did he contact you to tell you his story of the problem with his wife and the cruise? Are you sure, absolutely sure, that he isn't just saying this to keep you hanging, dangling that carrot a little closer? Did you ask him to not contact you anymore? I only ask because you ended it with him a month or so ago yet you got back within pretty quickly after that happened.... I don't mean that nasty or snarky, I hope you know that ((hug))

 

jj (hugs) man, I am so sorry that you are dealing with his continual juvenile immature behavior. I don't know when he is going to grow up and I hate how this continues to affect you

 

I sure wish he would find another person to focus his unwanted attention on. Besides saying 'ignore him' (which I know you are doing as best as you can), I just hate that he continues his games.

 

((hug))

[JustJoe]

Neanderthal women competed sexually for males who provided more. But as a history teacher you already know that.

 

Anyone who is in love has the potential to be gullible. We like to believe in the one we love. Eventually, we get what we need or we get out. It's all a learning experience, and one we would never chose to embark on unless there was something valuable in it for the individual, examples or not; because we often see bad examples as well as good ones.

It was just a joke, WF.

[White Flower]

so, if you dumped him, why did he contact you to tell you his story of the problem with his wife and the cruise? Are you sure, absolutely sure, that he isn't just saying this to keep you hanging, dangling that carrot a little closer? Did you ask him to not contact you anymore? I only ask because you ended it with him a month or so ago yet you got back within pretty quickly after that happened.... I don't mean that nasty or snarky, I hope you know that ((hug))

 

Hey FO, I'm sooooo well aware of that tactic and not so sure he is using it. I honestly think he just wanted to update me on his life and maybe hoped that I cared enough to wish him well thoughts and a good outcome, whatever it is.

 

I updated to update but have little faith at this point that he is going to make US happen. If he REALLY wanted ME then he wouldn't just 'keep me abreast' of the sitch, he'd be moving out and calling me every 5 minutes for support. Not happening and I am fine. I'm really at peace with it.

 

With regard to getting back in last time it was because I DID say I'd wait until the original Oct. 1 deadline and felt I had to keep my end of the deal. BUT the cruise date grew closer and closer and the thought of him PRETENDING to be happy just made me ill. Ill for her, ill for me, and ill for him. The madness had to stop and I couldn't stand by and watch it one more day.

 

Everyone has their own way of ending a relationship. I think LS has a lot to offer, but I don't believe that one formula works for everyone. If and when he calls, I can sift through the B***s*** and keep what is needed.

 

Ironically, my exH is coming over today to BBQ for my son's Bday. I invited his new W, but my son decided he's not quite ready yet, maybe next time. I/we have come sooo far in our healing since his A, my A, the breakups and the adjustments. This will probably be the last time we will BBQ as 'a family' without the new W and I am feeling grateful that she is allowing him to be with us. She seems like a patient woman. (She'll need to be with THAT man!) When I told my youngest daughter that I had invited them, she cried and hugged me with the sweetest smile. I asked why she was crying and she said, 'Cause we're gonna be like a happy family again, you and dad, and all of us. Life is good.

 

Part of the irony is MM knew I made the decision to befriend my exH. Besides benefitting my children, I wanted him to see that exes don't have to be enemies and that D's can be friendly, especially when you have children who need that so desperately. I know how much they love their kids so I know they can have a friendly D as well. But only he can decide how much he wants to work for that.

 

Thanks FO. Hugs right back at ya.

[NoIDidn't]

WF, I don't think your MM has any intention of leaving his marriage. Regardless of the IC.

 

I hope you keep things ended until/unless he gets a divorce this time.

 

The agony only gets worst each time the A restarts.

[JustJoe]

Further update. GF (FMW) divorce was final , Friday.

[White Flower]

NID you don't have to worry at all. I am so done with the see-saw. Next time I talk to that man his ring better be off and D papers in hand.

[jj33]

Thats great Joe. I am glad things are working out for you.

 

WF hang in there. You made the best decision for you. Whatever he does or decides, you can move forward knowing you have given this your all.

 

Noone could have been more patient with this man, more supportive, more understanding, more loving.

 

Now its up to him. Big hugs jj

[JustJoe]

Thanks, JJ. It has gone much better than I had ever hoped, and SHE is the reason. She has been absolutely great , so far, and I think we MIGHT be able to make something good out of what was a terrible situation. I only wish that things were better for you. He is being a total jerk and asshat about you .

[2sunny]

NID you don't have to worry at all. I am so done with the see-saw. Next time I talk to that man his ring better be off and D papers in hand.

 

WF - have you decided to stop taking his calls now? i was hoping you might progress to that level for your boundary. it can only eventually help you to move forward.

 

even sifting through his bs while in a conversation isn't worth the effort and energy to pick out pertinant information that you deem significant from him. seems like a ton of wasted energy just to have a conversation. why should you HAVE to sift through his bs to get a little of what you need to hear? all you really need to know is whether or not his divorce is FINAL. maybe he should call you when that news is true...

 

he calls because he wants you to feed his ego. how about if he called to feed your ego? what about what you should be getting from any relationship with a man? you deserve the very best - and he's short changing you and expecting that it's enough. it should be your turn now. he's had his chance and he's used up all his chances, second changes etc.

 

even IF you continue corresponding - i'd be inclined to just say BS out loud to him every time he makes a statement that's twisting his truth. point out every time he uses omissions to his advantage, half truths and sneaky innuendos. he may get tired of himself too, if he understands from your perspective how much of your time and energy he's wasting by manipulating the conversation to his benefit - while withholding the truth of it all.

 

once you point these out each and every time - the exercise will get old and begin to fade fast. he may actually begin to realize how ridiculous it is for you to try to believe all the things he tells you. i'd even go so far as to point out all evidence that his actions don't meet his words every time he tells these little fibs that sway things to his benefit.

 

if you are still talking - see how that works. he may get really irritated with you for pointing it all out to him - that only means he's more guilty than we previously figured. as long as he's got you as his captive audience - he's going to keep feeding you the info that seems to keep you coming back for more (more of listening to him vent - and lie).

[jj33]

Great points Sunny. Its amazing to me how much of this stuff involves them wanting the attention and the idea of the support from the AP.

 

During the A some people are fond of saying oh he just wants to use you for sex but its so not about the sex in so many of the cases. Its about the attention and the idea of what "might be".

[NoIDidn't]

WF - have you decided to stop taking his calls now? i was hoping you might progress to that level for your boundary. it can only eventually help you to move forward.

 

even sifting through his bs while in a conversation isn't worth the effort and energy to pick out pertinant information that you deem significant from him. seems like a ton of wasted energy just to have a conversation. why should you HAVE to sift through his bs to get a little of what you need to hear? all you really need to know is whether or not his divorce is FINAL. maybe he should call you when that news is true...

 

he calls because he wants you to feed his ego. how about if he called to feed your ego? what about what you should be getting from any relationship with a man? you deserve the very best - and he's short changing you and expecting that it's enough. it should be your turn now. he's had his chance and he's used up all his chances, second changes etc.

 

even IF you continue corresponding - i'd be inclined to just say BS out loud to him every time he makes a statement that's twisting his truth. point out every time he uses omissions to his advantage, half truths and sneaky innuendos. he may get tired of himself too, if he understands from your perspective how much of your time and energy he's wasting by manipulating the conversation to his benefit - while withholding the truth of it all.

 

once you point these out each and every time - the exercise will get old and begin to fade fast. he may actually begin to realize how ridiculous it is for you to try to believe all the things he tells you. i'd even go so far as to point out all evidence that his actions don't meet his words every time he tells these little fibs that sway things to his benefit.

 

if you are still talking - see how that works. he may get really irritated with you for pointing it all out to him - that only means he's more guilty than we previously figured. as long as he's got you as his captive audience - he's going to keep feeding you the info that seems to keep you coming back for more (more of listening to him vent - and lie).

 

I fully agree, sunny.

 

Thing is, if WF is still accepting his calls, its because she's not quite ready to let the connection die either.

 

But this type of man is not likely to put up with the aggravation of being told repeatedly that the OW doesn't believe him - he likely already has a W that's telling him those kinds of things. He needs someone to believe he really IS superman while behaving more like Lex Luther (sneaky and sinister). Usually the OW (or many OW) is just that person that really *gets* him and *appreciates* him fully *knowing* (because she really doesn't know the stuff she doesn't witness first hand) his flaws and still accepting him. The minute he gets the inkling that his usual charm doesn't get him what he wants and needs from her - he's out.

 

Some men really DO need an OW because of their own misperceptions of their own importance and needs. I think WF's MM is one of them. He already had a previous long-term A, and so I don't think he's going anywhere. He needs his facade of a life, and the thrill of a secret life to give him what he feels he *deserves*. I know too many like this. They seldom change before a life-threatening experience.

[White Flower]

I fully agree, sunny.

 

Thing is, if WF is still accepting his calls, its because she's not quite ready to let the connection die either.

 

But this type of man is not likely to put up with the aggravation of being told repeatedly that the OW doesn't believe him - he likely already has a W that's telling him those kinds of things. He needs someone to believe he really IS superman while behaving more like Lex Luther (sneaky and sinister). Usually the OW (or many OW) is just that person that really *gets* him and *appreciates* him fully *knowing* (because she really doesn't know the stuff she doesn't witness first hand) his flaws and still accepting him. The minute he gets the inkling that his usual charm doesn't get him what he wants and needs from her - he's out.

 

Some men really DO need an OW because of their own misperceptions of their own importance and needs. I think WF's MM is one of them. He already had a previous long-term A, and so I don't think he's going anywhere. He needs his facade of a life, and the thrill of a secret life to give him what he feels he *deserves*. I know too many like this. They seldom change before a life-threatening experience.

To Sunny, NID, and JJ,

 

I HAVE been the one who listens and 'gets him'. I also recognize the Lex Luther within the facade of Superman. He knows I know all these things and knows that I demand integrity, something I'm not sure he ever had in his life, and he may not be able to ever produce. One can hope.

 

Like I said, I'm done. I'll accept calls if they tell me what I want to hear; if not, bye bye.

[JustJoe]

WF - have you decided to stop taking his calls now? i was hoping you might progress to that level for your boundary. it can only eventually help you to move forward.

 

even sifting through his bs while in a conversation isn't worth the effort and energy to pick out pertinant information that you deem significant from him. seems like a ton of wasted energy just to have a conversation. why should you HAVE to sift through his bs to get a little of what you need to hear? all you really need to know is whether or not his divorce is FINAL. maybe he should call you when that news is true...

 

he calls because he wants you to feed his ego. how about if he called to feed your ego? what about what you should be getting from any relationship with a man? you deserve the very best - and he's short changing you and expecting that it's enough. it should be your turn now. he's had his chance and he's used up all his chances, second changes etc.

 

even IF you continue corresponding - i'd be inclined to just say BS out loud to him every time he makes a statement that's twisting his truth. point out every time he uses omissions to his advantage, half truths and sneaky innuendos. he may get tired of himself too, if he understands from your perspective how much of your time and energy he's wasting by manipulating the conversation to his benefit - while withholding the truth of it all.

 

once you point these out each and every time - the exercise will get old and begin to fade fast. he may actually begin to realize how ridiculous it is for you to try to believe all the things he tells you. i'd even go so far as to point out all evidence that his actions don't meet his words every time he tells these little fibs that sway things to his benefit.

 

if you are still talking - see how that works. he may get really irritated with you for pointing it all out to him - that only means he's more guilty than we previously figured. as long as he's got you as his captive audience - he's going to keep feeding you the info that seems to keep you coming back for more (more of listening to him vent - and lie).

This is a good post, 2sunny, but it begs a couple of questions/comments . If WF "deserves ", someone better than her MM, presumably she is aware of that , right? Doesn't she choose to listen to him, and isn't she a responsible adult? I look at WF'S issues as essentially self-inflicted, nobody is forcing her to go back to this buttwipe time after time.

[White Flower]

This is a good post, 2sunny, but it begs a couple of questions/comments . If WF "deserves ", someone better than her MM, presumably she is aware of that , right? Doesn't she choose to listen to him, and isn't she a responsible adult? I look at WF'S issues as essentially self-inflicted, nobody is forcing her to go back to this buttwipe time after time.

It must have taken you three minutes to type this because you didn't read the post above it.

[lolapalooza]

It must have taken you three minutes to type this because you didn't read the post above it.

I have to wonder why you are always so overly sensitive to JustJoe's posts.

[White Flower]

I have to wonder why you are always so overly sensitive to JustJoe's posts.

It's pretty obvious.

 

Joe got his girl and I'm happy for him. I have supported Joe from the beginning when everyone else bashed him. He's forgotten that.

 

Good luck Joe. I'm here for support, not bashing. I wish you well.

[NoIDidn't]

But what is so wrong about the observation that most of what you are experiencing is self-inflicted? Most of what OW/OM experience pain-wise IS self-inflicted IMNSHO.

 

You HAVE been that person because you chose to. I don't know the reasons why you chose to be that person, but you did. He didn't force you. Love might have motivated you doing so, but you still chose it.

 

And you continue to choose it every time you take his calls, or read his text messages. You allow this pulling of you back in. And the disappointment you feel when he still doesn't do what you want him to do - whether you spoke to him about it or not - is evident every time you post about it.

 

FTR, I found the telling him that its over if he goes on the cruise to be very manipulative like emotional blackmail. Here you say he needs you, then you threaten to take away what you feel he needs. He has every right to go on that cruise if he wants to, its his family. You shouldn't be causing such going-ons in his home by demanding that he stop fully (at least at whatever level he was/is doing) participate in his life with his public partner and friends.

 

This is drama WF. I hate to sound harsh, and I am not at all trying to be insulting, but this is drama. Just because you aren't yelling and screaming and doing drive-bys doesn't change the fact that this is drama. The highs and lows are coming much closer for you right now. The end of this thing is very near. But it seems you are really afraid to be the one that truly ends it. So far you have given lip service. You tell him its over, but you take his calls. Talk about mixed messages. Keep it simple. Cut him off. You two aren't friends. You are lovers. And if you want him to leave, you have to show him how its done.

[2sunny]

 

You HAVE been that person because you chose to. I don't know the reasons why you chose to be that person, but you did. He didn't force you. Love might have motivated you doing so, but you still chose it.

 

And you continue to choose it every time you take his calls, or read his text messages. You allow this pulling of you back in. And the disappointment you feel when he still doesn't do what you want him to do - whether you spoke to him about it or not - is evident every time you post about it.

 

 

This is drama WF. I hate to sound harsh, and I am not at all trying to be insulting, but this is drama. Just because you aren't yelling and screaming and doing drive-bys doesn't change the fact that this is drama. The highs and lows are coming much closer for you right now. The end of this thing is very near. But it seems you are really afraid to be the one that truly ends it. So far you have given lip service. You tell him its over, but you take his calls. Talk about mixed messages. Keep it simple. Cut him off. You two aren't friends. You are lovers. And if you want him to leave, you have to show him how its done.

 

i agree. this is no longer about what HE is or isn't doing - or saying.

 

it really is about WF - and what she DOES or DOESN'T DO. no words can change anything at this juncture. you've listened to enough words being spoken between the two of you.

 

silence would be an effective method at this point. he should get that message loud and clear. to even be an active listener for him just continues to give him what he needs from you = staying in the same place and his willingness to complain about it all - but still willing to play the same game with his family. if nothing changes = nothing changes.

 

so, now it seems time that YOU need to change things for YOU WF. cut the ties - and send him the message he needs to recognize... that you aren't even willing to listen to his same words that always say "i'm doing counseling, i'm making progress, please stand there and wait for me WF - even though nothing looks any different, wait while i keep things the same and complain about it all, wait while i never give my W the whole truth she needs to hear in order to move things forward.

 

he's fooling himself and everyone around him by playing the game that suits HIM best.

 

it's now time for YOU to set things right for YOU. take a stand and show him that you require a man to participate with YOUR best interest in mind - a man that has his actions go with his words. a man that makes YOU his priority and is available to you on YOUR terms.

 

this will allow you the freedom to live a lot - without the constraints of the terms of this MM.

 

tell him straight up = YOUR terms = no contact until his divorce is final = and it's now time for you to start living again without his situation bringing you down.

[White Flower]

But what is so wrong about the observation that most of what you are experiencing is self-inflicted? Most of what OW/OM experience pain-wise IS self-inflicted IMNSHO.

 

You HAVE been that person because you chose to. I don't know the reasons why you chose to be that person, but you did. He didn't force you. Love might have motivated you doing so, but you still chose it.

 

And you continue to choose it every time you take his calls, or read his text messages. You allow this pulling of you back in. And the disappointment you feel when he still doesn't do what you want him to do - whether you spoke to him about it or not - is evident every time you post about it.

 

FTR, I found the telling him that its over if he goes on the cruise to be very manipulative like emotional blackmail. Here you say he needs you, then you threaten to take away what you feel he needs. He has every right to go on that cruise if he wants to, its his family. You shouldn't be causing such going-ons in his home by demanding that he stop fully (at least at whatever level he was/is doing) participate in his life with his public partner and friends.

 

This is drama WF. I hate to sound harsh, and I am not at all trying to be insulting, but this is drama. Just because you aren't yelling and screaming and doing drive-bys doesn't change the fact that this is drama. The highs and lows are coming much closer for you right now. The end of this thing is very near. But it seems you are really afraid to be the one that truly ends it. So far you have given lip service. You tell him its over, but you take his calls. Talk about mixed messages. Keep it simple. Cut him off. You two aren't friends. You are lovers. And if you want him to leave, you have to show him how its done.

I pretty much agree with your whole post except for the 'being manipulative' part. I didn't do it to push him off of a fence or take him away from his family. FTR, it's her family and one couple that they hang out with a lot who are going. No kids. He told her on Friday that this was her thing and that he was just going along with the program. She was ticked and rightfully so.

 

BTW, he didn't tell her that because of me. She sensed he wasn't excited about it and questioned him. He decided to be honest for once. Honesty has never served him well (with regard to OW and telling his W) and I'm sure he's being punished right now. Anyway, not my problem anymore.

 

I did it because I couldn't take it anymore. Truly, I can't watch him pretend to celebrate something he dreads, I just can't. If you knew your son hated ballet you wouldn't push him into doing a recital. You wouldn't let his father force him to take ballet lessons. I know it's a tough comparison because MM is a man and has choices, but he is forcing himself to go in the name of duty and I just can't watch it. I can't. I already know who he loves and I know I'll probably never see him again because of the stand I've taken. But I won't watch the b***s*** anymore.

 

I was there to support him during all of this. But where was my support? After six months you begin to realize you have emotional needs too and mine were not being met. Guess what? Love IS selfish! And while I'm more of a giver than a taker, I need to take once in a while.

 

You're right, I shouldn't take his calls anymore at all.

i agree. this is no longer about what HE is or isn't doing - or saying.

 

it really is about WF - and what she DOES or DOESN'T DO. no words can change anything at this juncture. you've listened to enough words being spoken between the two of you.

 

silence would be an effective method at this point. he should get that message loud and clear. to even be an active listener for him just continues to give him what he needs from you = staying in the same place and his willingness to complain about it all - but still willing to play the same game with his family. if nothing changes = nothing changes.

 

so, now it seems time that YOU need to change things for YOU WF. cut the ties - and send him the message he needs to recognize... that you aren't even willing to listen to his same words that always say "i'm doing counseling, i'm making progress, please stand there and wait for me WF - even though nothing looks any different, wait while i keep things the same and complain about it all, wait while i never give my W the whole truth she needs to hear in order to move things forward.

 

he's fooling himself and everyone around him by playing the game that suits HIM best.

 

it's now time for YOU to set things right for YOU. take a stand and show him that you require a man to participate with YOUR best interest in mind - a man that has his actions go with his words. a man that makes YOU his priority and is available to you on YOUR terms.

 

this will allow you the freedom to live a lot - without the constraints of the terms of this MM.

 

tell him straight up = YOUR terms = no contact until his divorce is final = and it's now time for you to start living again without his situation bringing you down.

I get it 2sunny, I really do. It HAS brought me down and I've had enough.

 

Thanks guys.

Edited June 29, 2010 by White Flower