Update on your situation/affair

[White Flower]

I did it because I couldn't take it anymore. Truly, I can't watch him pretend to celebrate something he dreads, I just can't.

So interesting. Last year their vacation pics were posted online. They made me sick, literally, because I became dreadfully aware of how happy he looked with her. Either he was compartmentalizing and really happy in those moments holding her hand and smiling for the camera, or he was really good at pretending. Either way it was driving me mad.

 

I told him how sick it made me and that I needed a more authentic man in my life. It scared me how much he could pretend...or how he could actually be happy with more than one woman in his lilfe, and that could be me he was fooling one day. Crazy!!!

 

That is how our whole plan began last Summer. He needed to have a plan to leave or I would leave him. The 'plan' didn't go quite as planned and here we are, not quite a year later. It has felt like a very long goodbye sprinkled with some brilliant moments.

 

Anyway, I heard that MM's W shredded all those pictures because it was all a lie. (She did this after learning about all our phone calls during that time.) I felt for her, because she must have felt just as sick as I did when I first saw those pictures.

[White Dove]

So interesting. Last year their vacation pics were posted online. They made me sick, literally, because I became dreadfully aware of how happy he looked with her. Either he was compartmentalizing and really happy in those moments holding her hand and smiling for the camera, or he was really good at pretending. Either way it was driving me mad.

 

I told him how sick it made me and that I needed a more authentic man in my life. It scared me how much he could pretend...or how he could actually be happy with more than one woman in his lilfe, and that could be me he was fooling one day. Crazy!!!

 

That is how our whole plan began last Summer. He needed to have a plan to leave or I would leave him. The 'plan' didn't go quite as planned and here we are, not quite a year later. It has felt like a very long goodbye sprinkled with some brilliant moments.

 

Anyway, I heard that MM's W shredded all those pictures because it was all a lie. (She did this after learning about all our phone calls during that time.) I felt for her, because she must have felt just as sick as I did when I first saw those pictures.

 

No doubt that if I were in your situation, I would have felt the same.

 

I don't have a lot to say than what 2sunny and NID already said.

 

(((((WF))))) hope that helps.

[2sunny]

i forgot about those happy pics from last summer... a whole year has passed and now he's playing the same game as before... another vacation and he has to figure out how to make it all go smoothly so you don't get too mad. happy pictures will come back from this vacation as well and he knows it. he'll go.

 

he'll go because he always intends to keep his W happy. if he had other intentions he would say "i'm not going on vacation because i want a divorce." but he didn't say that at all. who knows if he's just pretending more by telling you that she "sensed" his reluctance. what the hell is wrong with him just being honest - honest with both women?

 

now another year wasted listening to his empty words and no solid movement from him. two women still being toyed with in an order that always serves him best. who knows IF he has ever even honestly discussed this with his counselor? now I'M even beginning to wonder where he is honest and if it's ALL lies he tells...

 

 

i was thinking WF -

 

you know, you have spent SO much time and energy being patient with/for him. always wondering where the truth lies. maybe it's his time to spend a lot of time and energy wondering a whole lot about you.

 

to go completely silent on him - and to focus on yourself for a long while - is a benefit that could serve you well right now.

 

leave him to his own doing... he's a big boy that doesn't need someone to hear his every word - every thought.

 

you need time to focus and do some self reflecting in order to have clarity for your future. to process what has happened, to process where you would like to be - what you want from yourself and your life 5, 10, 15 years from now. this is an exercise that would benefit your peace of mind.

 

every time you seem to get moving forward - he steps in and takes over your plan. don't allow that - just stay on track. stay silent to him. stay busy. IF he were to ever get divorced, he'll let you know. in the meantime, he's likely to keep up with the happy home life while complaining on the back side. this systematic method seems to bring him what he wants through the years... a wife at home who forgives - then tries harder to please him and an OW who feels sorry enough for him that she gives him more to try to compete with his life at home.

 

it sucks! but the reality is - it works for HIM. it always seems to work to HIS advantage.

 

time for you WF... time for you! make YOURSELF the priority now!

[JustJoe]

But what is so wrong about the observation that most of what you are experiencing is self-inflicted? Most of what OW/OM experience pain-wise IS self-inflicted IMNSHO.

 

You HAVE been that person because you chose to. I don't know the reasons why you chose to be that person, but you did. He didn't force you. Love might have motivated you doing so, but you still chose it.

 

And you continue to choose it every time you take his calls, or read his text messages. You allow this pulling of you back in. And the disappointment you feel when he still doesn't do what you want him to do - whether you spoke to him about it or not - is evident every time you post about it.

 

FTR, I found the telling him that its over if he goes on the cruise to be very manipulative like emotional blackmail. Here you say he needs you, then you threaten to take away what you feel he needs. He has every right to go on that cruise if he wants to, its his family. You shouldn't be causing such going-ons in his home by demanding that he stop fully (at least at whatever level he was/is doing) participate in his life with his public partner and friends.

 

This is drama WF. I hate to sound harsh, and I am not at all trying to be insulting, but this is drama. Just because you aren't yelling and screaming and doing drive-bys doesn't change the fact that this is drama. The highs and lows are coming much closer for you right now. The end of this thing is very near. But it seems you are really afraid to be the one that truly ends it. So far you have given lip service. You tell him its over, but you take his calls. Talk about mixed messages. Keep it simple. Cut him off. You two aren't friends. You are lovers. And if you want him to leave, you have to show him how its done.

Yep,NID . This is basically the reason (s) we OM/OW's have so much trouble. We continue to shoot ourselves in the feet, by believing what they say (without proof, mind you) and always hoping that the next lie or evasion is really, really the truth. . Until I quit believing, and required proof of everything. Untill I actually forced D-Day, thereby taking actual control. Nothing happened. Now MW is divorced, she is a working woman, and she is gaga in love with me. And it's all because I wouldn't settle for anything less than total committment from her, and would NOT communicate with her until she was ready to make that committment.

[White Flower]

I find myself unable to sleep tonight and since this post confused me I thought I would revisit it. First you say:

And you continue to choose it every time you take his calls, or read his text messages. You allow this pulling of you back in. And the disappointment you feel when he still doesn't do what you want him to do - whether you spoke to him about it or not - is evident every time you post about it.

Then you say:

FTR, I found the telling him that its over if he goes on the cruise to be very manipulative like emotional blackmail. Here you say he needs you, then you threaten to take away what you feel he needs. He has every right to go on that cruise if he wants to, its his family. You shouldn't be causing such going-ons in his home by demanding that he stop fully (at least at whatever level he was/is doing) participate in his life with his public partner and friends.

 

This is drama WF. I hate to sound harsh, and I am not at all trying to be insulting, but this is drama. Just because you aren't yelling and screaming and doing drive-bys doesn't change the fact that this is drama. The highs and lows are coming much closer for you right now. The end of this thing is very near. But it seems you are really afraid to be the one that truly ends it. So far you have given lip service. You tell him its over, but you take his calls. Talk about mixed messages. Keep it simple. Cut him off. You two aren't friends. You are lovers. And if you want him to leave, you have to show him how its done.

I guess I'm confused because you seem to want me to not 'choose' to put up with his bullc**p but in the same breath you want me there to support him during his time of need.

 

Then you stand up for his right to be with his family, as if I would pull him away from his family and 'demanding that he stop fully (at least at whatever level he was/is doing) participate in his life'. I could never demand that he stop fully anything at all. I'm only asking him to stop pretending to everyone. It has become toxic to us all. Why do you think she shreds photos or I can't sleep at night? And I'm sure the stress is taking its toll on him as well in some capacity.

 

So, do you want me to be his lifeline forever or do you want me to stand up for myself when I happen to need a lifeline?

 

I suppose if taking a stand in what I believe is right by all then yes, it's drama. I'm done with the status quo and if the end is near then so be it. At least I tried my best.

 

We haven't spoken in four days so don't think I'm jumping when the phone rings.

[White Flower]

No doubt that if I were in your situation, I would have felt the same.

 

I don't have a lot to say than what 2sunny and NID already said.

 

(((((WF))))) hope that helps.

Thank you White Dove. You are very kind.

 

(((((WD)))))

[marlena]

It has become toxic to us all. Why do you think she shreds photos or I can't sleep at night? And I'm sure the stress is taking its toll on him as well in some capacity.

 

WF, with all due respect, allow me to say that when a relationship becomes that toxic, that stressful, it has sustained too many blows to be viable. It has suffered to much damage already.

 

Stress is a killer, as you well know, and no one is worth giving up your life and peace of mind for. Personally, I would cut my losses and nurse myself away from such a detrimental on all levels relationship.

 

I've been where you are now and I know how tormenting the feelings are. Looking back, it was one of the darkest times in my life. I consider myself lucky that I managed to crawl out of that darkness. I had a narrow escape, really I did. It could have gone the opposite way. I could have gotten very,very sick, died, wound up in a mental institite. What good would that have done anyone?

 

I think this happens when these relationships last too long. Mine lasted five years. That's why I firmly believe that if the married affair partner doesn't divorce within, tops, two years, it is a losing battle. Not always, of course. But usually.

 

I am sorry you are going through this and hope things get resolved as soon as possible for your own sake and everyone else's too.

[TinaniT]

Guess who's getting married....

 

 

 

No, not me. We are still waiting as the original plan.

 

My man was told by his xw that she is planning on remarrying already (Well, not remarrying for almost a year, but date already set).

 

 

The EA guy she'd been having for several years, back starting before they stopped having sex.

 

Lordy, and she was the one who really wanted to continue the horribly broken marriage.

 

Little awkward. I know this must hurt him anyways, despite the divorce. What does one say?

[White Dove]

Stress is a killer, as you well know, and no one is worth giving up your life and peace of mind for. Personally, I would cut my losses and nurse myself away from such a detrimental on all levels relationship.

 

So true.

 

WF, IMO -- it's best that you leave him be for good or at least until he comes with the divorced papers. But from reading your some of your back posts regarding your situation, it doesn't seem like he's ready to end his marriage anytime soon, if not at all.

 

It may be the hardest thing to do but for your sake -- for your own peace of mind, you should. He is sucking the life out of you -- someone that claims to love you shouldn't be doing that.

[jj33]

Ive been suddenly over come with a desire for revenge. Not about the A, I have no regret now about that not working out. But the aftermath. The way he has treated me since its been over. Ive told anyone I can tell who I thought might care and they dont care. I find myself wishing someone would "take him down" professionally. I dont have any basis for doing that or believe me I would.

 

Its not a pretty feeling but I feel like Ive been bullied and I dont like it. I know I need to ignore it and I am doing my best to do that. I hope this feeling passes. I know its not constructive.

[Hazyhead]

Ive been suddenly over come with a desire for revenge. Not about the A, I have no regret now about that not working out. But the aftermath. The way he has treated me since its been over. Ive told anyone I can tell who I thought might care and they dont care. I find myself wishing someone would "take him down" professionally. I dont have any basis for doing that or believe me I would.

 

Its not a pretty feeling but I feel like Ive been bullied and I dont like it. I know I need to ignore it and I am doing my best to do that. I hope this feeling passes. I know its not constructive.

 

In a weird way though, JJ, this might be a good thing for you - the anger is coming. I personally would like to see him get a little bit of comeuppance from you, and I'm not the vindictive type. If he harms you, professionally, personally, or any other way again, I say you give it back. It might not normally be a constructive thing, but in your case... I'm not sure the same would apply.

 

Has he done anything more?

[jj33]

Thanks Hazy. More of the same coming up with new and ingenious ways to make me worry about my business. And I tried to stick up for myself by speaking to the people he mentioned and ended up looking stupid as they seemed not to view things the same way. And one told me to chill basically. Noone wants to hear a bad word about him and they tell me no he said nice things about you. But he makes it seem like they havent said the best things about me difficult to explain without giving TMI.

 

But the bottom line is I tried to take a stand and ended up looking silly and petty.

 

He has no achilles heel that I know of and if he had one (other than some really personal things I know as a result of the A but I would look petty and vindictive if I repeated them)

 

My only hope is he pulls this with someone who works for a company that cares enough to really make a stink about it. It would have to be someone he never had an A with. My problem is that as a result of the A I lack credibility.

 

I understand that harrassment has now been made into a criminal offense (yes I am really considering my options) but the way his communications are worded I would never win. He provokes me and provokes me and provokes me with things shrouded in work and then I blow up and to the uninitiated it looks like I am a hysterical woman scorned. And then I used to (not for a long time) bombard him with emails. So if he has kept those I would have no case.

 

Someone suggested I speak with the police on a no names basis just to see what my options are and perhaps to make me feel like I have more power. Im not sure I want to do that.

 

It sounds so stupid - Mom hes bothering me. Ignore him. Mom hes still bothering me. Ignore him. Im an adult I should be able to ignore him. And I could if it werent for the fact that he picks on my vulnerabilities (my work) where if there is a problem I jump.

 

Actually thats how he got me to spend time with him in the first place. He started out by asking me out for meals and I refused for over a year. Then he said I have a customer issue to discuss with you, I have a new project I want you to work on with me - and I was all ears! Right there!

 

Now hes using that again. I dont want to talk to him personally but he knows if he has informatoin suggesting that my work or my professional reputation may somehow be in jeopardy, he knows that will get a big reaction.

 

At this point I am willing myself to remember that if any of what he says is true there is nothing to be done about it, people are fickle. And that he is not the most trustworthy source of information.

 

I suggested we sit down and hash things out, he said yes but has not come back to me with a date. I think this is a hiding to nowhere. How many times do you have to tell someone the same thing? There really are no more words, I just need him to leave me alone.

 

I am searching for the right words but doubt I will never need them. If he was keen to clear things up he would have chosen a date. Im not pushing it. The good thing is since I suggested dates I have had radio silence so it was worth it for that if for no other reason.

 

Its amazing how such deep love can turn so ugly. In a million years I could never have predicted this one. Never. Im stunned. Owl predicted it and I just didnt want to believe it. But here we are!

 

I know that I have to follow Ghandi's wisdom and "be the change" I want to see. I have to find a way not to care what he says or does and to simply ignore it all. You know kind of like in meditation when they say just watch your thoughts float by? I have to just watch his words on the screen and if they arent related to a specific customer situation, delete them.

 

Hmmm I just thought of that writing this. We'll try that shall we? I will try to be the change I want to see. Will let you know how that goes. A bit cynical at this moment in time but I know it is the thing to do. Cant change him but I can change my reactions. Maybe I havent been committed enough to doing that. Ive done so many other seemingly impossible things I have to believe I can do this.

 

Thanks Hazy.

Edited June 29, 2010 by jj33

[Circular]

 

He has no achilles heel that I know of and if he had one (other than some really personal things I know as a result of the A but I would look petty and vindictive if I repeated them)

 

 

Oh, he for sure has an Achilles heel. You just haven't realized yet that it's YOU and he's fighting to the bitter end to ensure he doesn't get stabbed there again.

 

I use that term when I write to explain how I feel about what happened between me and my xAP, she was my achilles heel, no doubt nobody I've met could shoot the arrow so accurately and have the potential to bring me down.

 

He's scared of you.

[califnan]

JJ, I think his achilles heel is silence - or being ignorred.. That is where he knows he has you .. because since you are business acquaintances - he knows you cannot ignore him - or he can come back to you with it.

 

That's why I would think the only way to beat this - would be to reduce him in your Mind. In doing so, he will loose the importance - to frustrate you.

[jj33]

Thanks Califnan that is an interesting perspective but Im not sure that is it.

 

Circular, If I am his achilles heel its only because I made him look at his own choices and his life and consider the idea that that his life can be different, that there are opportunities to have a more emotionally intimate relationship than the one that he has chosen.

 

But why else would he be scared of me? Ive told anyone there is to tell and wouldnt have if he hadnt been so difficult with me.

[lolapalooza]

Guess who's getting married....

 

 

 

No, not me. We are still waiting as the original plan.

 

My man was told by his xw that she is planning on remarrying already (Well, not remarrying for almost a year, but date already set).

 

 

The EA guy she'd been having for several years, back starting before they stopped having sex.

 

Lordy, and she was the one who really wanted to continue the horribly broken marriage.

 

Little awkward. I know this must hurt him anyways, despite the divorce. What does one say?

Some people just can't stand to be alone. She may not even want to marry this guy, but can't stand living on her own. I can never understand people like that.

 

Wasn't your MM giving her a lot of assets? Is he still going to do that since she will soon have another husband?

[Circular]

Thanks Califnan that is an interesting perspective but Im not sure that is it.

 

Circular, If I am his achilles heel its only because I made him look at his own choices and his life and consider the idea that that his life can be different, that there are opportunities to have a more emotionally intimate relationship than the one that he has chosen.

 

But why else would he be scared of me? Ive told anyone there is to tell and wouldnt have if he hadnt been so difficult with me.

 

When we become intimate we become vulnerable and when we are vulnerable all of what we are becomes visible, strengths and weaknesses alike. Sometimes the most terrifying thing to do is look into the mirror and be real with ourselves about who we are, what we are and what impact that might have on the house of cards we've built around our foundation. (that's my read and is actually what you said - you made him look into the mirror)

 

His behavior to me seems very much skewed and intentional to alienate and marginalize you. I interpret that as him saying "you know too much, have to much power, all I can do is create a huge rift to ensure that my house of cards doesn't get blown over." you're somehow hitting a big insecurity button for him. Some are more secure not knowing how life could be.

 

When I realized what my xAP was opening my eyes too, though I'm not fearful of changes, it was anxiety provoking.

[jj33]

Thanks Circular. I agree he is trying to alienate me and make me feel marginalized.

 

But if I scare him so much why cant he just leave me alone? You would think he would welcome the idea of limiting his contact with me. That way I would be out of his life almost entirely.

 

I have to say I think hes obsessed.

[Hazyhead]

When we become intimate we become vulnerable and when we are vulnerable all of what we are becomes visible, strengths and weaknesses alike. Sometimes the most terrifying thing to do is look into the mirror and be real with ourselves about who we are, what we are and what impact that might have on the house of cards we've built around our foundation. (that's my read and is actually what you said - you made him look into the mirror)

 

His behavior to me seems very much skewed and intentional to alienate and marginalize you. I interpret that as him saying "you know too much, have to much power, all I can do is create a huge rift to ensure that my house of cards doesn't get blown over." you're somehow hitting a big insecurity button for him. Some are more secure not knowing how life could be.

 

When I realized what my xAP was opening my eyes too, though I'm not fearful of changes, it was anxiety provoking.

 

 

 

This does make a lot of sense - very thought provoking, Circular. JJ, think about it, out of everyone he knows, maybe even including his wife from what you told me about her, you have seen the most of him. He has possibly revealed himself more to you than anyone, and for this, he feels vulnerable. You know, a different situation but my xMM referred to the power I had over him after dday. He begged me to speak to his wife and confirm his lies, i didn't; the conversation was far too short for that, but still to this day he may (and I use this as just an example) think of me as dangerous. I really hope that he wouldn't because the thought of adding more hurt... it's horrifying. But, it could be possible. Similarly, you may know things about your xMM that could damage you, perhaps this is why he let's you be discredited.

 

He still loves you and he's scared of you at the same time.

[White Flower]

WF, with all due respect, allow me to say that when a relationship becomes that toxic, that stressful, it has sustained too many blows to be viable. It has suffered to much damage already.

 

Stress is a killer, as you well know, and no one is worth giving up your life and peace of mind for. Personally, I would cut my losses and nurse myself away from such a detrimental on all levels relationship.

 

I've been where you are now and I know how tormenting the feelings are. Looking back, it was one of the darkest times in my life. I consider myself lucky that I managed to crawl out of that darkness. I had a narrow escape, really I did. It could have gone the opposite way. I could have gotten very,very sick, died, wound up in a mental institite. What good would that have done anyone?

 

I think this happens when these relationships last too long. Mine lasted five years. That's why I firmly believe that if the married affair partner doesn't divorce within, tops, two years, it is a losing battle. Not always, of course. But usually.

 

I am sorry you are going through this and hope things get resolved as soon as possible for your own sake and everyone else's too.

You're right Marlena, and that is the reason the cruise was too big for me. It wasn't about manipulating him off of the fence. In fact, he'd already chosen which side he wanted, just coudn't get there. Oh well, whatever. The stress AND the duplicity toward all three of us are much too big for me. And I refuse to get to the 5 year mark being in the same position.

So true.

 

WF, IMO -- it's best that you leave him be for good or at least until he comes with the divorced papers. But from reading your some of your back posts regarding your situation, it doesn't seem like he's ready to end his marriage anytime soon, if not at all.

 

It may be the hardest thing to do but for your sake -- for your own peace of mind, you should. He is sucking the life out of you -- someone that claims to love you shouldn't be doing that.

That is right White Dove. I am usually 'the bigger person' but I just became so small in a world that didn't notice me and I found out that I actually have needs too. If I don't stand up for myself, who will stand up for me?

[TinaniT]

Some people just can't stand to be alone. She may not even want to marry this guy, but can't stand living on her own. I can never understand people like that.

 

Wasn't your MM giving her a lot of assets? Is he still going to do that since she will soon have another husband?

 

I haven't asked, and he didn't say anything about that facet.

 

He feels the assets are owed to her after that long of marriage and, moreover, are owed to his children (she has custody, he has them on weekends) so I'd assume that's the same... Of COURSE child support payments won't change.. only thing I'd wonder is alimony... doesn't that automatically cease with remarriage in most cases? *shrug* I'll ask him next time we talk if he's thought about that.

[Hazyhead]

You're right Marlena, and that is the reason the cruise was too big for me. It wasn't about manipulating him off of the fence. In fact, he'd already chosen which side he wanted, just coudn't get there. Oh well, whatever. The stress AND the duplicity toward all three of us are much too big for me. And I refuse to get to the 5 year mark being in the same position.

 

That is right White Dove. I am usually 'the bigger person' but I just became so small in a world that didn't notice me and I found out that I actually have needs too. If I don't stand up for myself, who will stand up for me?

 

WF, it's so hard, in your situation, to hang on to your power because by it's very nature he holds the cards. It's down to him. You deserve so much more than to be kept waiting and if he has taken the cruise with his family knowing the risk then I think you should grab your power back. When he returns, it's no longer his, he can't even take control of himself, let alone others. Find you again and move forward. Let him flounder in Never Never Land.

 

Take care.

 

(((((White Flower)))))

[jj33]

WF why do you say you are too small in a world that doesnt notice you?

 

You are noticed but you have as you know given your power away to someone who isnt able to exercise that power in a way that honors the person you are.

 

You are as you say the only person who can stand up for you. MM cant even stand up for himself hes not likely to stand up for anyone else. This is the problem with weak men...

 

Any news on whether he is going on the cruise?

 

Big hugs

 

jj

[HurtinginTexas]

Im angry that I miss him. Im angry that I havent heard from him. I know NC is the only way to go after being dumped in such a dirty way but I still care. Maybe I miss what used to be.

 

Guess there are many deap seated issues with me that I would take the back and forth treatment, doormat, him never having to apologize or make any effort to come back after the hurt and lies.

 

April 2008 his wife emailed me saying he said I was a fatal attraction that never left him alone only after he got caught with me one night after he left home. What a lie. Talk about throwing me under the bus to save himself. I should have taken the opportunity then to speak with her.

 

This is the thanks I get. She leaves him and divorces. He claims its what HE wanted. It takes 11 months to hit rock bottom mentally. All the while Im told hes happy, but things dont seem right and Im not happy about the lack of progression. The he does a run away with no contact or remorse. Three and a half years gone.

 

And I still want to have contact..Why?

[Confused4Now]

Im angry that I miss him. Im angry that I havent heard from him. I know NC is the only way to go after being dumped in such a dirty way but I still care. Maybe I miss what used to be.

 

Guess there are many deap seated issues with me that I would take the back and forth treatment, doormat, him never having to apologize or make any effort to come back after the hurt and lies.

 

April 2008 his wife emailed me saying he said I was a fatal attraction that never left him alone only after he got caught with me one night after he left home. What a lie. Talk about throwing me under the bus to save himself. I should have taken the opportunity then to speak with her.

 

This is the thanks I get. She leaves him and divorces. He claims its what HE wanted. It takes 11 months to hit rock bottom mentally. All the while Im told hes happy, but things dont seem right and Im not happy about the lack of progression. The he does a run away with no contact or remorse. Three and a half years gone.

 

And I still want to have contact..Why?

Cause love is blind. You want what you can't have.... You have this image in your head on how it COULD be...but it's not real. I'm sorry hang in there!!!