Update on your situation/affair

[White Flower]

JustJoe, I am all for calling a spade a spade, an affair an affair, a liar, a liar, etc.... but your response to WF above is a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier.

 

 

Now, back on topic

 

JustJoe, I am glad if you feel as if the MW you have been having an affair is doing what you need her to do. Personally, I think it is not wise to have her move in with you when in my view, she needs time on her own. But hey, I guess you will find out down the road if that was the smartest idea. I think you two need to date, not become live-in lovers.

 

WF, I hope that you stand by what you told the MM....this time I hate that he sucked you back in and now he is going on an anniversary cruise with friends/family to celebrate their marriage. To me, that is a huge slap in the face to you, especially after all his talk about change, etc. I hope he doesn't use you again while you 'support' him through this childhood experience. Sometimes, people need to go through the healing process on their own, without having someone who loves them and has sacrificed so much for them (and not gotten that same in return). I wish you peace and happiness.

FO, thank you for your thoughts and wishes.

 

I have finally come through this experience learning many things but one of the biggest lessons was learning the difference between being supportive and being co-dependent.

 

I believe MM and his W are mutually co-dependent. Everything he claimed her parents were and never wanted for himself...all came true for them. Her parents were proclaimed excellent examples of a loving M couple (and on many counts this must be true) and that is what MM and his BW modeled themselves after, sadly; I say sadly because they are so co-dependent that it is sickening. His parents were seen as the opposite (because BW was disgusted that his dad left for the OW--a very non co-dependent <independent> thing to do). MM just swallowed his tongue and took a deep breath, deciding that it is better to remain silent (lack of agency) then to stand up for his father who did 'the right thing' by not pretending his entire life and continuously cheating.

 

Seeing this close up, (the co-dependency) I have realized the difference. I want to be supportive in his choice to heal. I don't want to do the healing for him.

 

Going on the cruise is not just a slap in the face to me. It is a slap in the face to her because he is pretending to celebrate a love that for him is dead. It is a slap in the face to his friends (a couple) and her family members who are going, because they (especially if he doesn't tell the man) will believe all is well when it isn't, and it is a slap in the face to himself who keeps asking for more time and patience (from every dang one of us) when it is just so easy to say to her, 'Hey, I don't feel that this is right.' See how easy that was? 7 little words.

 

I know he fears her response to those words and not the words themselves. I know he has a lack of agency due to traumatic experiences in childhood. But I can't allow 'what I know' to be an excuse to continue being Good Ole Patient and Understanding White Flower. I've had enough and he knows it.

 

There were some other issues that came up in IC that I didn't realize were STILL hurdles for him. One was age difference which was hashed out and now a non-issue. Another was finances which he is still hashing through, but not as diligently and as seriously as I would like. Another hurdle was assuring himself he would never cheat again, a HUGE issue, which is now a non-issue for both of us. Still, the lack of agency in getting what he wants WHILE stopping the madness of pleasing everyone concerned (you can't please everybody honey:o, someone WILL be hurt) has just been too much for me and too long. Too many hurts and maybe too many hurdles. I thought I was strong and enduring, but I do have my breaking point. This cruise is my breaking point.

[2sunny]

Going on the cruise is not just a slap in the face to me. It is a slap in the face to her because he is pretending to celebrate a love that for him is dead. It is a slap in the face to his friends (a couple) and her family members who are going, because they (especially if he doesn't tell the man) will believe all is well when it isn't, and it is a slap in the face to himself who keeps asking for more time and patience (from every dang one of us) when it is just so easy to say to her, 'Hey, I don't feel that this is right.' See how easy that was? 7 little words.

 

Too many hurts and maybe too many hurdles. I thought I was strong and enduring, but I do have my breaking point. This cruise is my breaking point.

 

the cruise is a farce and he knows it - but is WILLING to go along with it... to me, this means he will only continue to take the easy road that causes HIM the least harm as long as he pretends.

 

'Hey, I don't feel that this is right.'

 

notice he didn't say "this is wrong" big difference! if it were so wrong he would actually be DOING something to make it different - but yet, he just "goes along" with it all - and it seems to make everything status quo in his household = it must be actually ok with him...

 

too many hurts = yes, YOU now deserve more than the hurt he brings to the table. i don't blame you at all for the cruise being the breaking point for YOU. HE is CHOOSING to play along... YOU can choose to make THAT NOT OK FOR YOU!!!!!!!!

 

he has choices and has been clear about what he continually chooses... now it's your turn to make choices that are BEST for YOU!

[U2RockZz]

Well, for all of you who question her sincerity. She had a pre-nup with her ex, which gave her a substantial monetary settlement, regardless of the Divorce Grounds. SHE REFUSED IT! She took NOTHING, out of the marriage, that she did not bring in, except for some small tokens from members of his family, that had sentimental value. She has gotten a real, paying JOB, working with victims of Controlled Substance Abuse. She has told me that she will be paying half of all bills, and is willing and even cheerful about verifying all of her actions, until I am fully able to trust her, or we BOTH decide that the relationship isn't what we want. How's that for maturity!!!!!!!! I'm really proud of her. She has gone from being a trophy wife to being a useful member of society. I have never seen her so loving and happy and motivated. BTW, shed no tears for her STBexH, he has purchased another trophy wife and will no doubt move her in, as soon as the ink dries. MY FMW was the latest in a long line of eye candy that he bought to show how rich and powerful he is. I don't think he loves anybody, except himself.

 

 

 

 

 

what's wrong with you man...you got what you wanted ,why are you bringing her xH in here....his wife was running around on him for years....now he got a replacement(as you put it) whats wrong with that....anyways how come you both are romeo and Juliet and for him it becomes some trophy......

 

 

thank your lucky stars that he hasn't filed a AA case,defamation and bunch of others(on a public forum you are abusing him)....he might not have won any of those....but you and your Juliet would have paid to your lawyers till you end up in a old age home

[2sunny]

2sunny, from my reading of this, he hasn't said anything (what i bolded above) that was what white flower was saying he should/could say to his wife.

 

exactly... THIS is what he actually DID say to his W...

 

'Hey, I don't feel that this is right.' See how easy that was? 7 little words.

 

there is a big difference. he's not honest. not specific - but it's misleading to WF - because the way he worded it - doesn't SPECIFICALLY tell his W what the actual problem is - and what HE plans to do about it all.

 

but he still gets the benefit of misleading his W - and not doing anything to actually change things at home... and he misleads WF - because he leads her to believe he's told his wife he's not happy and planning to leave. NONE of which is the truth.

 

which leaves anyone wondering - what are his real intentions - and what is he going to do about it all?

 

only he knows - but as long as things remain the same... he may be perfectly happy enough to leave them just as they are... unless someone forces a different outcome that looks mighty different than his complacency and ability to have things stay as they are.

 

in the meantime - two women are left wondering where the truth lies...

 

i hate that that person is you WF - you seem too nice to settle for that little.

[White Flower]

the cruise is a farce and he knows it - but is WILLING to go along with it... to me, this means he will only continue to take the easy road that causes HIM the least harm as long as he pretends.

 

'Hey, I don't feel that this is right.'

 

notice he didn't say "this is wrong" big difference! if it were so wrong he would actually be DOING something to make it different - but yet, he just "goes along" with it all - and it seems to make everything status quo in his household = it must be actually ok with him...

 

too many hurts = yes, YOU now deserve more than the hurt he brings to the table. i don't blame you at all for the cruise being the breaking point for YOU. HE is CHOOSING to play along... YOU can choose to make THAT NOT OK FOR YOU!!!!!!!!

 

he has choices and has been clear about what he continually chooses... now it's your turn to make choices that are BEST for YOU!

Those words in bold were me hypothetically speaking for him. Those are words (or yours were better:)) I would love for him to have the strenth to use.

 

Thanks 2sunny. You've always been such a great supporter. Not an enabler, or a co-dependent freak:p, but a great supporter!

 

Hugs.

[White Flower]

2sunny, from my reading of this, he hasn't said anything (what i bolded above) that was what white flower was saying he should/could say to his wife.

Thanks HF, you're right.

exactly... THIS is what he actually DID say to his W...

No he didn't but that's OK. I'm just so happy you're seeing it for what it would be had he said it.

 

there is a big difference. he's not honest. not specific - but it's misleading to WF - because the way he worded it - doesn't SPECIFICALLY tell his W what the actual problem is - and what HE plans to do about it all.

 

but he still gets the benefit of misleading his W - and not doing anything to actually change things at home... and he misleads WF - because he leads her to believe he's told his wife he's not happy and planning to leave. NONE of which is the truth.

 

which leaves anyone wondering - what are his real intentions - and what is he going to do about it all?

 

only he knows - but as long as things remain the same... he may be perfectly happy enough to leave them just as they are... unless someone forces a different outcome that looks mighty different than his complacency and ability to have things stay as they are.

 

in the meantime - two women are left wondering where the truth lies...

 

i hate that that person is you WF - you seem too nice to settle for that little.

Currently he is still benefitting from misleading everyone. He can claim all he wants that he is just stalling until he figures everything out in IC but when it comes right down to it, six months later, all he has to do is turn left or turn right and one of us wasted half a year and many missed opportunities. Yes, I wonder where the truth lies. Interesting statement...'truth lies'...

 

I know what the truth is and what he wants. I just don't know if he'll have the strength and duration it would take to get it. It is just so sad if he never makes it.

 

Anyway, thanks for the bolded statement. I think it IS people who are too nice who settle for that little. But I've had enough so you don't have to worry about me.

[2sunny]

Thanks HF, you're right.

 

No he didn't but that's OK. I'm just so happy you're seeing it for what it would be had he said it.

 

 

Currently he is still benefitting from misleading everyone. He can claim all he wants that he is just stalling until he figures everything out in IC but when it comes right down to it, six months later, all he has to do is turn left or turn right and one of us wasted half a year and many missed opportunities. Yes, I wonder where the truth lies. Interesting statement...'truth lies'...

 

I know what the truth is and what he wants. I just don't know if he'll have the strength and duration it would take to get it. It is just so sad if he never makes it.

 

Anyway, thanks for the bolded statement. I think it IS people who are too nice who settle for that little. But I've had enough so you don't have to worry about me.

 

so what are the ACTUAL words he HAS used with his wife? he must be saying SOMETHING to her...

 

may be you should book a cabin on THAT cruise too... and see exactly what deception he plans to participate in. anyone can go on a cruise, right?

[whichwayisup]

I said we're so busy discussing all your 'stuff'

 

And he's forgotten about you and YOUR STUFF. Seems it's ALL about HIM.

 

(I thought I posted this lastnight, but I can't find it on this thread!)

[NoIDidn't]

That's not 'all you can be' Joe, you can be more. I defended you many times over when you couldn't understand why you were being bashed. This post is an example of why you didn't get along even with your own peers. You act like you're better than them, or at least give off that impression.

 

Curious, and off-topic, but who exactly are JustJoe's "peers"?

[White Flower]

Curious' date=' and off-topic, but who exactly are JustJoe's "peers"?[/quote']

The OP group. The group that defended him so much when BS were working him over.

[White Flower]

And he's forgotten about you and YOUR STUFF. Seems it's ALL about HIM.

 

(I thought I posted this lastnight, but I can't find it on this thread!)

WW I think that was in a PM.

[White Flower]

so what are the ACTUAL words he HAS used with his wife? he must be saying SOMETHING to her...

 

may be you should book a cabin on THAT cruise too... and see exactly what deception he plans to participate in. anyone can go on a cruise, right?

Cute idea, but very expensive and so not worth my time. It already hurts to imagine it, why actually look at it? Like I said, if he goes it's over.

[2sunny]

Cute idea, but very expensive and so not worth my time. It already hurts to imagine it, why actually look at it? Like I said, if he goes it's over.

 

when is this cruise to take place?

 

even a whisper of participating in this from any MM would send me into a tailspin enough to break it off for good - on the spot!

 

but don't mind me - i'm the W who divorced her cheating husband after 23 years. he went away for the weekend with his honey - to come home to the locks changed, his belongings waiting outside the house...and divorce papers... i have a boundary - then i'm so DONE...

Edited June 20, 2010 by 2sunny

[GreenEyedLady]

when is this cruise to take place?

 

even a whisper of participating in this from any MM would send me into a tailspin enough to break it off for good - on the spot!

 

I wouldn't advocate this. I understand the sentiment. It would have killed me.

 

Instead I advocate WF taking the vacation of a lifetime with a "friend."

 

Now that s*** works.

 

GEL

[JustJoe]

I had thought that by virtue of my being in an extra-marital affair, that , in itself, would preclude me from occupying any of the moral high ground. Those who have bothered to get to know me, know that I , in no way, feel superior or smug, to any other poster, and I deeply resent that accusation. We are all entitled to our opinions. I will respect those of the posters, who have attacked me, but I don't have to interact with them.

[White Flower]

I wouldn't advocate this. I understand the sentiment. It would have killed me.

 

Instead I advocate WF taking the vacation of a lifetime with a "friend."

 

Now that s*** works.

 

GEL

I actually booked MY vacation the exact same days of departure and return in an entirely different location and believe you me I WILL have fun. I already have contacts where I'm going and the invitation is open for the taking. Who knows, I may just need the distraction.

[JustJoe]

BBO7 , thank you for, at least, trying to understand. YOu may be right, about my being harsh. I will make an earnest effort to be more poster-friendly , in the future. .........Lost, I've thought about this a lot. I really don't think that us living apart will add or subtract anything to my trust of her, or her desire for me. Keep in mind that we DO have a 4+ year history, and she has left the BS on numerous occasions and lived by herself. I feel that we might as well try it now. If it works out, we will already be in a position to make the relationship more permanent, If it doesn't, we will know soon enough, and can make other , individual, plans.

[JustJoe]

U2rocks, you criticize me , but have no idea of my situation. Never-the-less you are entitled to your opinion.

[GreenEyedLady]

I actually booked MY vacation the exact same days of departure and return in an entirely different location and believe you me I WILL have fun. I already have contacts where I'm going and the invitation is open for the taking. Who knows, I may just need the distraction.

 

Woo-hoo! You go girl! :bunny:

 

GEL

[White Flower]

Woo-hoo! You go girl! :bunny:

 

GEL

Jumping Bunnies from GEL, wow!!!

[U2RockZz]

U2rocks, you criticize me , but have no idea of my situation. Never-the-less you are entitled to your opinion.

 

 

it's not my opinion....it's the fact....if i was him i would have filed AA,defamation,cyber alienation,public vulgarity and many others......you would pay for your life....thank him for not doing that......it's actually not easy to be in your shoes....yet your entire posts are filled with hypocrisy

[JustJoe]

Dude, if you don't like my posts, don't comment on them. IDK you and have never interacted with you. It would seem to me that before you start to trash somebody , you would get your "facts", straight. But I'm not interested in arguing with you over my situation, so feel free to rant away.

[White Flower]

it's not my opinion....it's the fact....if i was him i would have filed AA,defamation,cyber alienation,public vulgarity and many others......you would pay for your life....thank him for not doing that......it's actually not easy to be in your shoes....yet your entire posts are filled with hypocrisy

Second time I saw you post this. What is AA filing?

[MorningCoffee]

Second time I saw you post this. What is AA filing?

 

Alienation of affection?

 

Just a guess. Once upon a time, the BS could sue the AP for money damages for having supposedly stolen the affection of the WS. Don't believe this is still possible in most states, although some may permit it, and others have new theories (like recovering funds spent on the AP by the WS during the A as rightfully belonging in part to the BS).

[Fallen Angel]

Alienation of affection?

 

Just a guess. Once upon a time, the BS could sue the AP for money damages for having supposedly stolen the affection of the WS. Don't believe this is still possible in most states, although some may permit it, and others have new theories (like recovering funds spent on the AP by the WS during the A as rightfully belonging in part to the BS).

 

I, too, think that AA is meant to mean alienation of affection... My state is one that still has AA laws on the books, and also Criminal Conversation which is actually a criminal offense that can include jail-time for the parties involved in an EMR if I understand it correctly.