I Told (Again) Why do I feel guilty?

[awkward]

How did he behave in the affair when he didn't get his way? Did he manipulate or play games? Look back at what you know about him. Is this behavior out of character for him?

 

For instance, did he ever make you feel like you were more invested in the relationship than he was while you were involved?

[califnan]

Yes that is what I thought - he must still care on some level.

 

So the question is if he cares why is he being so mean and why isnt he simply saying look I know I shouldnt still care but I do or something normal instead of conjuring up reasons to contact me and waste my time and energy.

 

-----------------------

 

JJ, Don't you want him out of your personal life, after doing such a tole on it .. Of course he cares, besides the fact that he is a married user.

 

He's only a person, see what toleration you can conjure up for only the business relationship ..

[jj33]

He didnt manipulate when we were involved, but there were things he did that I found unacceptable and when he didnt "get it" I kicked his azz to the curb each time and each time he came back and never did whatever it was again. I had pretty firm boundaries. When he pushed I said thanks but no thanks this is not what I signed up for. Each time the stalemate only lasted about a week and he would see the light and things would be fine.

 

This behavior is new well its not new anymore but it started about a year and a half after it ended. And its awful and I have no leverage now to get him to talk to me about it. It breaks my heart.

 

I dont want an A but I dont want this nonsense either. There has to be some happy medium and I cant be the whipping boy on whom he takes out his frustration that he still loves me but doesnt want to leave his life as he knows it. But its been several years. Wouldnt anyone else buy a clue and say wow I really am not able to get over this one maybe I better take a good long look at my life?

[awkward]

No because I don't think this is about his marriage or lifestyle at all.

 

It's about him and maybe a little about you. He wants to maintain contact with you without acting like he wants to maintain contact with you. If he truly, I mean really really really believed you were over and done with him, I think he would change his tune. He would have to walk away or he would have to make a change.

 

Maybe he still believes you are his backup plan or desperately wants you to be?

Edited June 16, 2010 by awkward

[califnan]

He didnt manipulate when we were involved, but there were things he did that I found unacceptable and when he didnt "get it" I kicked his azz to the curb each time and each time he came back and never did whatever it was again. I had pretty firm boundaries. When he pushed I said thanks but no thanks this is not what I signed up for. Each time the stalemate only lasted about a week and he would see the light and things would be fine.

 

This behavior is new well its not new anymore but it started about a year and a half after it ended. And its awful and I have no leverage now to get him to talk to me about it. It breaks my heart.

 

I dont want an A but I dont want this nonsense either. There has to be some happy medium and I cant be the whipping boy on whom he takes out his frustration that he still loves me but doesnt want to leave his life as he knows it. But its been several years. Wouldnt anyone else buy a clue and say wow I really am not able to get over this one maybe I better take a good long look at my life?

 

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You won't find me saying this very often on here, but: You need another man ... a Real one!

[jj33]

I think that is it. I think he thinks I am his back up plan in case his W ever leaves him

 

But really if you had a back up plan wouldnt you want to keep her sweet?

 

It all just makes no sense. And its so insulting that he thinks he can keep me on the shelf in case what? W leaves and he cant find anyone else better its just nice to know that if all else fails you have someone like when people say if neiher of us marry by the time we are 40 well marry each other? Wow that is insulting

[califnan]

I think that is it. I think he thinks I am his back up plan in case his W ever leaves him

 

But really if you had a back up plan wouldnt you want to keep her sweet?

 

It all just makes no sense. And its so insulting that he thinks he can keep me on the shelf in case what? W leaves and he cant find anyone else better its just nice to know that if all else fails you have someone like when people say if neiher of us marry by the time we are 40 well marry each other? Wow that is insulting

 

---------------

 

I haven't considered it the back up plan.. I just think since you were both with each other .. you may always be a part of each other's life in the spirit .. Maybe he's frustrated that he can't leave his life and have you and he is taking it out on you ... but it doesn't matter what he thinks ..

 

You need a replacement!

[jj33]

I used to think that Califnan but to me you can only be a part of each others lives in spirit if its a good spirit. This is not a good spirit and I do not want to be a part of his life in this manner.

[califnan]

I used to think that Califnan but to me you can only be a part of each others lives in spirit if its a good spirit. This is not a good spirit and I do not want to be a part of his life in this manner.

 

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Good. I think NC (at least to the personal portion) brings us to the reality of what it actually was..

[jthorne]

JJ- this isn't really answering your question, and it's not going to be what you want to hear. From a managerial point of view, you have to stop reporting him. Management doesn't care about or want to deal with the personal problems of it's staff. And if they think you may become legal problem (sexual harassment), they like it even less. They may soon think you can't be a "team player" (I hate that phrase). I understand he's somewhat of a muckety muck in his company. If the choice is between him or you to settle this, they will most likely choose him. Not saying it's right. It sucks, but it's business.

 

So to answer your question, you shouldn't feel guilty for keeping your boundaries. But if you can't come to a resolution between the two of you soon, without managerial involvement, you may need to think of doing something else.

[jj33]

J if we worked for the same company I would agree.

 

If we worked for the same company I would never have gotten involved.

 

But we dont and I have been responsible for giving his company a significant amount of revenue in the past.

[jthorne]

J if we worked for the same company I would agree.

 

If we worked for the same company I would never have gotten involved.

 

But we dont and I have been responsible for giving his company a significant amount of revenue in the past.

Doesn't matter, my dear. Let me try from this angle. It's a matter of respect. It's hard enough for a female to make it in business. It's hard enough for men to respect you, harder when they've formed a "good ole boy's club". You have to be strong. Stronger than them. Stronger than him. Show all of them that you can handle yourself.

 

This is a tough situation. It affects your professional integrity and your career. You can't have the partners gossiping with others in your field about your personal life.

 

I have to think more on how to handle him. But I do know you're going to have to stop involving his people.

[awkward]

 

But really if you had a back up plan wouldnt you want to keep her sweet?

 

I would want to keep her sweet but what if she refused to let me eat cake? What if she *gasp* broke up with me?

 

What if I just wanted to make sure that she didn't let go? What if I just missed her and wanted to remain in contact without letting her know that I missed her?'

 

Whatever his motives are it doesn't change anything. You need to get to a point where it does not effect you at all. I would not respond to anything that isn't real business. Nothing at all. No reporting to his superiors. No reaction. It sucks when someone has to play by themselves. Usually they just give up.

[jj33]

You are right JThorne. I do have to stop involving them. They wouldnt gossip beyond themselves because it would reflect badly on them if it got out in the market. But they dont want these hassles on their desks. Beleive me I only did it as a very last resort when it stopped being simply annoying and started to involve business.

 

If they havent taken action and told him to cut it out then well I just have to toughen up. Ironically people who know me think I am so tough but apparently not tough enough.

[Jilly Bean]

I honestly don't think he cares about you to consider you a back-up option. I think he gets off on the power he has over you.

 

This situation isn't going to end until you either truly get over him, so that every time he sends you a business email (you admit yourself they are strictly business) you don't tweak, or change jobs.

 

Personally, I couldn't imagine trying to get over someone that I had to interact with in any way. So, I question why you continue to do it.

 

Why not just change jobs? If you are as special and marketable as you say, this shouldn't be that difficult, right?

 

Unless you are still getting off on the drama...?

[whichwayisup]

THose of you who have seen my prior threads will know the A ended more than 2 years ago. He refuses to stick to any sort of NC even limited contact as necessary for work (we work in separate companies that work closely together).

 

I had reported him to his company on several occasions and got no joy. I recently did so again but on much stronger terms.

 

I know I had no other choice but why do I feel so guilty?

 

Despite everything despite the fact that someone who truly cared about me would talk to me rather than pulling my pigtails in 555 different ways. He would say I miss you my own tangled emotions are driving me crazy. He wouldnt provoke me and play mind games with me.

 

Still a part of me feels really guilty. He must have been so upset, his feelings must be so hurt that I would go to such lengths not to speak to him etc etc etc.

 

I know that objectively I should not feel guilty. I also know (knowing him as I do) that he is probably thinking what is wrong with her, I was just being friendly why is she doing this to me. Its all ancient history. What is wrong with her.

 

I dont know what to do with myself. If he would only have talked to me instead of pretending it was OK to just contact me when I asked him not to or that he would have been honest with me rather than playing games with me.

 

I just dont know anymore.

 

You still have any feelings for him? Somehow you haven't been able to ignore him and he still has a profound affect on you.

 

It's a game to him and eventually you react. THAT is what he waits for. This isn't a man who is hurt, nor a man who cares about you. Maybe a long time ago he did, now he's in it for kicks..

 

Stop reacting ,stop telling on him. You both chose to have an affair. It ended. 2 years ago. Start looking for another job, put feelers out there, or ask for a transfer, so you won't have to work with him anymore. Different company that isn't associated with his company. Or, just learn to live with it and try your best to be indifferent and not care.

[whichwayisup]

Is he that much of a child that knowing I dont want any contact with him he would continue to do this just to upset me? Who does that?

Yes he is. And yes, he enjoys pushing your buttons. Enjoys the cat and mouse game.

 

Thanks awkward. the funny thing is a few months ago i said something about missing him (not about starting up again but just that i missed the way we used to get along so well) and he dismissed it like and said i shouldnt bring up the past it was over.

 

By letting him know this, it fed his ego. He wants to know that YOU still want him. That's it! He is playing you..

 

He has been scrupulous about never mentioning anything personal whatsoever. If anyone read his emails they would say what are you complaining about they are all related in some way to business.

 

That's called covering his ass. He knows how to play the game and how to "look" squeaky clean if anything comes his way.

 

And if once just once he had said i miss you can we talk none of this would be an issue. The thing that gets me is he makes it all about work so if i dont respond he accuses me of being unprofessoinal. And that is juts nonsense

 

Again, he's playing you and pushing buttons. He's a jerk.

 

I think that is it. I think he thinks I am his back up plan in case his W ever leaves him

 

He believes this because of the past conversation about you missing him. He probably believes that you WILL take him in if he and his wife split up.

 

 

But really if you had a back up plan wouldnt you want to keep her sweet?

 

It all just makes no sense. And its so insulting that he thinks he can keep me on the shelf in case what? W leaves and he cant find anyone else better its just nice to know that if all else fails you have someone like when people say if neiher of us marry by the time we are 40 well marry each other? Wow that is insulting

 

Somehow you need to find a way to get him out of your blood. He has an affect on you and he knows this. How you look at him, or not look at him. It's an effort to ignore someone.

[GreenEyedLady]

((JJ))

 

I'm so sorry that you're still dealing with this.

 

I can't imagine what it would be like to be confronted with his asinine behavior year after year.

 

You are a strong, smart woman. At this point, just keep doing what you think is best.

 

GEL

[Susmay]

I have a friend who was receiving unwanted and unnecessary e-mails containing "instructions" on how to do her job. She always had a stock standard reply "noted thank you". She persisted with this for months.

 

It seemed to drive the other person crazy with, initially, escalating directions and orders. The other person was not my friend's supervisor, so there was no requirement whatsoever for my friend to obey the other. Eventually the other person did give up though.

 

Could you try something like this adapted for your situation? A polite acknowledgment with no detailed answers to questions and no undertaking to do anything.

[silverplanets]

Hi JJ,

 

I can't get an exact picture of the relationship between you, your own employers, and his company. It seems like you work for someone else but you are expected to complain to his partners if somethign is wrong ...

 

Without giving TMI .. what exactly is the scenario?

 

In my experience it IS always possible to curtail a bully's actions, but one needs to know the appropriate action to take?

 

eg If he's a customer and is harassing you then you have a right to expect your company to take some form of action to stand up for you .. if there's a personality clash for eg between a salesman and a good customer then the account will often be assigned to a different salesman ... To do this though, YOUR company needs to apply pressure (and they don;'t have to give the true reason) ...

 

Which is why I ask about the exact working scenario .. cause it's not clear to me what economic relationships at play are?

 

C

[seren]

THose of you who have seen my prior threads will know the A ended more than 2 years ago. He refuses to stick to any sort of NC even limited contact as necessary for work (we work in separate companies that work closely together).

 

I had reported him to his company on several occasions and got no joy. I recently did so again but on much stronger terms.

 

I know I had no other choice but why do I feel so guilty?

 

Despite everything despite the fact that someone who truly cared about me would talk to me rather than pulling my pigtails in 555 different ways. He would say I miss you my own tangled emotions are driving me crazy. He wouldnt provoke me and play mind games with me.

 

Still a part of me feels really guilty. He must have been so upset, his feelings must be so hurt that I would go to such lengths not to speak to him etc etc etc.

 

I know that objectively I should not feel guilty. I also know (knowing him as I do) that he is probably thinking what is wrong with her, I was just being friendly why is she doing this to me. Its all ancient history. What is wrong with her.

 

I dont know what to do with myself. If he would only have talked to me instead of pretending it was OK to just contact me when I asked him not to or that he would have been honest with me rather than playing games with me.

 

I just dont know anymore.

 

If, when I was a manager, one of my staff was receiving unwanted, non business, harassing e mails, I would advise them to first off speak with the person and say that if it continued I would be forwarding them onto my manager (me), that I had discussed it with my manager and that if it still continued, company policy regarding any other type of constant harassment would be followed, and act on it.

 

If, it continued after I (as the manager of the person) stepped in, then I would talk to his supervisor, no matter how far up the food chain. the why and wherefore's wouldn't matter, the well being and producitvity of my staff would.

[jj33]

Thank you all for your replies but for Jilly Beans stock reply that I am a drama queen they were all very helpful.

[Fallen Angel]

jj,

 

If you really want it to stop, quit reporting him to his partners, and start reporting him to his wife. Everytime he sends you an email copy it to her. If it contains sensitive work related materials you can always edit it out, and forward the rest of the email to her.

 

When he calls, call her. Put him on hold and initiate a 3-way call to his wife. I am sure she would be interested in knowing just how frequently he is breaking NC.

 

(Hell, you probably don't have to REALLY do any of that, just tell him that you are going to.. that will probably be enough to cool his jets for awhile anyway. *shrug*)

[silktricks]

Doesn't matter, my dear. Let me try from this angle. It's a matter of respect. It's hard enough for a female to make it in business. It's hard enough for men to respect you, harder when they've formed a "good ole boy's club". You have to be strong. Stronger than them. Stronger than him. Show all of them that you can handle yourself.

 

This is a tough situation. It affects your professional integrity and your career. You can't have the partners gossiping with others in your field about your personal life.

 

I have to think more on how to handle him. But I do know you're going to have to stop involving his people.

 

I completely agree. I know you felt it was something that was your only "out", but IMO it wasn't a wise move. It's been done, but I'd not do it again for 2 reasons.

 

1. You gave up some of your business "strength" by letting them know you were both in a personal relationship with him AND because men in business do not wish to deal with tears.

 

2. You let him know that his antics are working. Though you are not yet in a place where he IS water off a ducks back, you need to make him think he is. By reporting him he is even more aware of his power over you. And he loves it.

[NoIDidn't]

(((JJ)))

 

I'm so sorry you are still dealing with his mess after all this time. I know you don't want to hear this, but this makes me wonder how his W put up with it for all these years. Makes it kind of understanding why she didn't care if he had an OW or not - took his mess off her hands for a time.

 

I agree with jthorne, too, to a degree, since you don't work for the same company. But I definitely take her point.

 

I know the idea of leaving this work behind is daunting and scary right now, but it might be the best time to do it. The future is calling and his antics are pushing you towards it.

 

Good Luck, JJ. Wish he'd stop being a jerk.