Questioning Intelligence

[TwilightSky]

This has been a concern of mine for a long time, whether I am intelligent or not. Now, I don't expect some random forum user to evaluate me in that area, but I'm wondering how I can glean the truth from others' words.

 

For example, I had a few sessions with a psych awhile back. He suggested that, since I work in a retail store, I should do an intellectual job, like counting money. That was laughable, as ever since my dad pushed math down my throat, I have avoided as much as possible doing even simple math, but I can when I have to, and when there is no one around to pressure me.

 

Anyway, I asked why this psych thought I was intelligent, and he responded with "partly because you have a large vocabulary". I thought that was more trainable than having anything to do with actual intelligence. I am thinking he might have said that because of my most likely apparent low self-esteem.

 

I guess my question is, how do you know if someone is sincere with a compliment?

[sb129]

I would have thought that a psychologist was being genuine- what have they got to gain by lying?

[TwilightSky]

It is called sympathy--he could've just felt sorry for me. Beyond that, I don't know.

[sb129]

But of anyone, a psychologist has no reason to "feel sorry" for you- if they are doing their job properly they are supposed to help you see things objectively.

 

Sounds like you are pretty tough on yourself- there are many different kinds of "intelligence"- lots of people have some kinds without others.

 

I would accept the compliment.

[TwilightSky]

Yeah, maybe. But, I would say he is a human first and a psychologist second. It is possible he was being genuine.

 

Anyway, my direct supervisor at work has said the same thing multiple times, but then later he will explain something blatantly obvious to me, I guess that could be part of his managerial training. Thanks for the reassurance, at least.

[SadandConfusedWA]

If you want to know, take an online IQ test. That should give you a rough idea of where you are on the intelligence curve.

[TwilightSky]

I was told (if I remember correctly) by that psych that online IQ tests are wildly inaccurate (most of them), I suppose I could have a pysch actually administer one to me. I'm mulling over the possibilites atm. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Edited June 16, 2010 by TwilightSky

[TaraMaiden]

You have sabotaged yourself in every single post you've made so far.

 

You refuse to believe people when they compliment you, and either discredit their flattery with a justification or excuse, or back your reasoning up with a counter-argument of a separate incident.

 

This is your lack of self-esteem talking.

 

You see everyone flattering you as being deceitful or at least having a hidden agenda.

 

Why can you not believe you are worthy of their praise?

What makes you think you DON'T deserve such compliments?

 

What is it within you that makes you so much less deserving than others, of recognition?

There is a name for this behaviour, but I'm keen to hear your responses first.

[bac]

IQ is your inherited potential ability to develop your brain/thinking.

There are many ways to figure out if you are capable of growing intellectually.

1.Self-education - reading intelligent books and gain some useful information that helps you to improve the quality of your life.

2. Going to college because you have a specific useful goal to improve the quality of your life.

[Ronni_W]

Yes, one of the therapist's tasks is to point out your areas of strength that you might be overlooking, ignoring or pretending away.

No, an ethical, well-trained therapist who is dedicated to her/his profession will not just say stuff out of sympathy. That would compromise his/her personal integrity and self-respect.

 

He suggested that, since I work in a retail store, I should do an intellectual job, like counting money. That was laughable, as ever since my dad pushed math down my throat, I have avoided as much as possible doing even simple math,

Just because you have been rebelling against your dad's force and pressure, does not necessarily mean that you don't have a natural flair for math, though. Right now, it just means that you consciously and deliberately avoided math as a way to individuate yourself, and/or to message to your dad, "Up yours, Buddy!", and/or as a way to 'punish' your dad for his forceful interference.

 

Children do it all the time. As an adult, at some point you may want to give math a try because YOU want to...and be open to the fact that possibly your dad sensed in you something that you did not sense for yourself. In which case, nice that he was so in-tune with you right from the start, huh? A lot of kids can't claim having parents with that kind of 'intuitive understanding' of their chid(ren).

 

TS, if you do think you can stand some self-esteem building, I'd encourage you to Google "self esteem experts". There is an excellent website with that name; free lessons, videos and downloads. (I posted a link to it before but it got deleted.)

 

Best of luck.

[TwilightSky]

You have sabotaged yourself in every single post you've made so far.

 

You refuse to believe people when they compliment you, and either discredit their flattery with a justification or excuse, or back your reasoning up with a counter-argument of a separate incident.

 

This is your lack of self-esteem talking.

 

You see everyone flattering you as being deceitful or at least having a hidden agenda.

 

Why can you not believe you are worthy of their praise?

What makes you think you DON'T deserve such compliments?

 

What is it within you that makes you so much less deserving than others, of recognition?

There is a name for this behaviour, but I'm keen to hear your responses first.

 

I honestly don't know what causes this self-defeatist/sabotage behavior (also bear with me, as I've only had four hours sleep). All I know is, right now there is no real world evidence for my "intelligence." I'm twenty five years old, living with my parents (though I plan to move out soon), I work at a retail store in a relatively non-prestigious position. I feel like a waste of life. I feel depleted, dumb, like some worthless fellah.

 

As for IQ, well, while I am thinking about having one administered, but some of them contain a cultural bias, as evidenced by certain subtests. A few of the subtests from the WISC are, "Similiarities, Vocabulary, Information," you need to have a decent education to do well. I was spottily educated due to a disadvantageous environment growing up (wasn't trying to sound educated just then, was only word I could think of).

[amerikajin]

Intelligence is an extremely difficult construct to measure. In fact, I would say that it's impossible to measure accurately, because it all depends on how it is defined.

 

Just analyzing your writing, you seem to have a fair degree of verbal intelligence. You might be skilled at communicating, perhaps. On the other hand, you might have limitations in other areas, such as mathematics or computers.

 

One thing that needs to be pointed out, too, is that the more you learn, the more intelligent you can become. An individual can compensate for a lack of skill simply through dedication and hard work. That doesn't mean that every computer geek or anyone who tries their hand at programming and software design can be a Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs -- they can't. But it's just common sense: you can improve upon your knowledge and skill set merely by working to address that particular weakness.

 

Of course, the key to anything is to merge your pursuits with your interests and talents. If you're genuinely uninterested and untalented in, say, computers, then you're probably wasting your time. If you're a good writer or a good communicator, it makes more sense to go that route.

[TaraMaiden]

A very good, lucid, eloquent response.

 

Which you then brought down a peg or two by excusing your choice of vocabulary, at the end.

 

You see what I mean about self-sabotage?

 

You are voluble, eloquent and highly articulate.

You communicate in a succinct, no-nonsense, pertinent way, and you stick to the point. This, in spite of only a few hours' sleep.

 

This takes a more than just average handle and knowledge of language, and the ability to string several words together in a lucid and legible fashion is by no means as commonplace as you would imagine.

 

"The man who does not think much of himself, is far greater than he believes himself to be."

You really need to catch those thoughts before you articulate them, challenge them, and see them for what they are.

Self-defeating and completely unfounded.

[TwilightSky]

Conflicting opinions seems to be the key here. I remember a co-worker said "I'm a better writer than you." I told him my creative writing teacher gave me compliments, to which he replied "that is what they are supposed to do." My low self-image + constant exposure to utter buffoons doesn't help the matter at all. The more educated individuals might assume I am smart, or at least knowledgeable.

 

Also, to be fair the "voluble" comment is unfounded at this point. My writing has nothing to do with the speed of my speech. I actually stutter with my speech most of the time. "Rapid stuttering", perhaps, ha! Not to belittle your compliment, I appreciate it.

 

I think some philosopher wrote "Intelligence is the quickness in seeing things as they are," I know that is hardly empirical evidence of what intelligence is, but I just feel so bewildered and confused. I'll respond to the rest later, can't keep my eyes open.

[TaraMaiden]

 

Also, to be fair the "voluble" comment is unfounded at this point. My writing has nothing to do with the speed of my speech.

 

Volubility:

I was referring to your writing, but I have no doubt this ability is present in your speech too.

 

I actually stutter with my speech most of the time. "Rapid stuttering", perhaps

,

 

Not alone there either, are you?

Do you consider any of these people 'intelligent'?

 

ha! Not to belittle your compliment, I appreciate it.

Well it's about time!

 

I'll respond to the rest later, can't keep my eyes open.

 

Get some rest.

Sleep well.

[laRubiaBonita]

I would have thought that a psychologist was being genuine- what have they got to gain by lying?

 

more money from the now needed and extended number of sessions

[TaraMaiden]

Questioning the integrity and motivation of a counsellor by highlighting their desire to earn more money is both fatuous and inaccurate.

Most counsellors work within an organisation or association, and are salaried, so the money doesn't come into it. Others actually work in a voluntary capacity, and some organisations rely on client donations.

 

To say that a counsellor gets more money by lying is insulting and frankly, bordering on slander.

I think it's grossly unfair to tar counsellors with that brush. I'm sorry, but I find your comment highly offensive.

[laRubiaBonita]

Questioning the integrity and motivation of a counsellor by highlighting their desire to earn more money is both fatuous and inaccurate.

Most counsellors work within an organisation or association, and are salaried, so the money doesn't come into it. Others actually work in a voluntary capacity, and some organisations rely on client donations.

 

To say that a counsellor gets more money by lying is insulting and frankly, bordering on slander.

I think it's grossly unfair to tar counsellors with that brush. I'm sorry, but I find your comment highly offensive.

 

well i can't very well remove it now, can i?

[TaraMaiden]

true 'nuff.....

 

But thank you for responding anyway.

[laRubiaBonita]

true 'nuff.....

 

But thank you for responding anyway.

 

and i am sorry if it offended you, it was tongue in cheek.

 

but the bottom line is that the OP should learn to accept compliments, not question them.... as you mentioned TM most of the responses she posted right after the original discount the compliment and herself.

i was going to point that out too. maybe his compliment was also a 'homework' item... learning to accept that she just might really be as great as people tell her.

[TaraMaiden]

That is a fair point.

 

I think to a certain extent we all have difficulty receiving praise:

I find it amazing that if you compliment a woman on something like a blouse, a dress a piece of jewellery or even her hair, she comes back - much more often than not - with a comment like

"oh I've had this for years!" or "It was a gift from my sister", or "Well it needs cutting again soon....."

 

never "Why, thank you!"

 

maybe it's a British trait. Italian women tend to do this too, though.....I don't know if American women have a tendency to do this.

 

Try it out sometime.....

[laRubiaBonita]

That is a fair point.

 

I think to a certain extent we all have difficulty receiving praise:

I find it amazing that if you compliment a woman on something like a blouse, a dress a piece of jewellery or even her hair, she comes back - much more often than not - with a comment like

"oh I've had this for years!" or "It was a gift from my sister", or "Well it needs cutting again soon....."

 

never "Why, thank you!"

 

maybe it's a British trait. Italian women tend to do this too, though.....I don't know if American women have a tendency to do this.

 

Try it out sometime.....

 

i totally agree with this. i do not know if it is some american culture thing or what, but it drives me crazy!!! they question the compliment and think there has to be some evil ulterior motive for it, which then causes them to question possible reasons- in short making a neurosis of an innocent thumbs up.

 

any person should gladly and unquestionably accept and own any compliment given- people would feel so much better about themselves if they did.

[Feelin Frisky]

This has been a concern of mine for a long time, whether I am intelligent or not. Now, I don't expect some random forum user to evaluate me in that area, but I'm wondering how I can glean the truth from others' words.

 

For example, I had a few sessions with a psych awhile back. He suggested that, since I work in a retail store, I should do an intellectual job, like counting money. That was laughable, as ever since my dad pushed math down my throat, I have avoided as much as possible doing even simple math, but I can when I have to, and when there is no one around to pressure me.

 

Anyway, I asked why this psych thought I was intelligent, and he responded with "partly because you have a large vocabulary". I thought that was more trainable than having anything to do with actual intelligence. I am thinking he might have said that because of my most likely apparent low self-esteem.

 

I guess my question is, how do you know if someone is sincere with a compliment?

 

I don't mean to be high brow or anything but it has been discovered and now more and more books are being written about how the question you first asked is a misinterpretation of the nature of mental capacity. Look up neuroplasticity on Amazon and Wikipedia. The bottom line? Unless we are born with a physical birth defect, the capabilities and capacities of our minds are not pre-determined. Like your shrink implied in an over-simplified way, a human being naturally grows interconnection in the mind in response to motivated pursuit of knowledge. Simply getting a job counting money may not set off a period of increasing mental agility. Finding and interest in which there are lots of dots you need to connect but don't yet have the knowledge is more how the brain grows capacity to achieve your goals. There are signs of this human nature everywhere--it's why things progress sometimes in leaps and bounds. People start out with a supposition and as they work to see if their view is sound and unique, nature provides them over the course with tiny growth spurts so that they can soon encompass the problems and avenues for solution. You have to grow the interconnections by sticking with the motivation.

[TwilightSky]

I'm aware of neuroplasticity. Sometimes, I wonder if I have a malformed brain, or if my memory is "retarded" though. As for the counting money thing, I think he was trying to say I should be in an "intellectual" job because he believes I have the capacity. But then, most people should (be able to count money, I mean).

 

I was referring to your writing, but I have no doubt this ability is present in your speech too

 

Sorry, I was going by merriam webster's definition, but I gues it isn't all-encompassing.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voluble

[TaraMaiden]

Exactly!

And neither is "intelligence"!