An affair for this member?

[Mangled]

First time poster here, so forgive me if I don't know all of the abbreviations, acronyms, etc.

 

I've been married 14 years and we have a child together. I've never cheated on my wife - not while we were dating, and not since. I've never even seriously considered it. I came into the marriage with the best of intentions, and have lived up to all of them. I'm a good provider (my wife decided to leave her career behind to raise the family). We're in good financial position relative to most - not rich but not struggling. We live in a nice house, pretty much paid for. We have 2 decent vehicles, both paid for. We take fairly regular vacations. My in-laws adore me, and my parents love my wife. Our child is healthy. I work full-time in my own business, but also cook several times a week, often take the kid to school, do pretty much all the laundry, and all the "man" stuff (house maintenance, lawn, snow shovelling, etc.) The house is a mess, which drives me mad, but I by-and-large put up with it.

 

The whole thing sounds great to me. It's what we both wanted. I'd have opted for more kids, but my wife struggled, physically and emotionally, through the pregnancy, and has avoided discussing having any more kids. So we are where we are. I'm a generally happy guy, self-confident, well-liked and respected in the community and such.

 

And I'm falling for a neighbor. A married neighbor, at that. She's in a clearly unhappy marriage. My marriage, from the outside looking in, appears better.

 

Here's the problem. My wife is miserable most of the time. She's getting short-tempered with the kid, and with me to a lesser degree. She's rattled by everything. She's drinking a few glasses of wine every day, which has never been her pattern. She's on increasingly high doses of anti-depressant medication, and sleeping pills, and herbal this-and-that for mood issues. But she outright refuses to accept any type of therapy.

 

I'm not a knuckle-dragging insensitive lout. When we started having conflicts for the first time in our marriage about 5 years ago, we both agreed to marriage counseling. In our first and only session, after we had both discussed our issues, the therapist pretty much told my wife to come back for some individual therapy, that she was obviously having coping issues, and that there was help available. My wife refuses to go to this day. I've offered to take my own therapy so as to reduce the strain and blame, and actually attended a couple of sessions, but that hasn't encouraged my wife to go. I have some experience with depression and anxiety - I was very down 10 or 12 years ago after the failure of my first business, and took 2 therapy sessions and a few months of medication to jolt me out of it. I learned at that time that the combination of talk therapy, exercise, and medication seem to have the greatest likelihood of success.

 

So I find myself in a miserable position. My wife, whom I've adored for years, is now a miserable, brittle woman. She is putting on weight at a rapid pace. She gets dressed up for the neighbors or the school parents, but around the house she couldn't care less. I've pretty much stopped asking for sex, since I'm tired of the humiliation that accompanies her refusal just about every time. And yes, I've been romantic, and sensitive, and tried to make nights all about her. No matter what I do, she's not responsive in ways she used to be. Even when we get nights without our kid, which are pretty common (very supportive parents on both sides), she'd rather sleep and eat and have a glass of wine than get silly with me. I'd estimate we have sex roughly once a month.

 

I don't want to leave, because I love my child so much, and wouldn't want to put her through the insecurities of a separation or divorce. I'm also not confident I'd get full custody, which I would want, without being wholly strategic about putting my wife's mental health on trial, which I would be loathe to do. Even shared custody would be traumatic for my daughter; as far as she's concerned, we're committed to one another.

 

So now to the neighbour... she's smart, and beautiful, and she's married to a mean-spirited ass. We've gotten to know eachother over the past few years at neighborhood social events, and we have a tremendous amount in common, not the least of which is being trapped in ridiculous marriages. We share a desire for intimacy with a caring partner, and are frankly lonely as hell at home.

 

I've not so much as given her a hug or a peck on the cheek to date, despite a clear mutual attraction. And I've got to tell you, I'm not sure why. I'm confident I can keep any affair a secret. I'm not confident, though, that such an affair won't lead to a deeper desire to end the marriage. Maybe this is just a potential step toward an inevitable break-up, but I'd like to get some advice from folks who've been here.

 

Thanks for reading my very long story, and thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

[Snowflower]

Welcome to LS, mangled, and thanks for sharing your story.

 

There isn't much advice that any of us can give you. Going by your OP (original or opening post), you have decided that you are entitled to have an affair because your wife is too this and not enough that.

 

You have already placed the blame for your decision to have an A on your wife's shoulders.

 

Mangled, you are already in an A (affair). Helping you with the acronyms!

 

There isn't a WS (wandering or wayward spouse) here who didn't say some of the things you are saying here about their BS (betrayed spouse) as they embarked on their affair. It's part of the cheaters handbook...blame your spouse first for everything. Case in point, you go on and on about your awful wife in your OP while your AP (affair partner) is oh so perfect.

 

It will get messy--you won't be able to keep the A hidden from your wife and her husband forever--especially since you are neighbors. Spouses aren't stupid, even though it is assumed that they are.

 

Good luck, you're going to need it! I would tell you just to divorce your wife or at the very least have a very serious talk with her--show her your post, but you probably won't do that. WS generally avoid and take the easy way out.

 

I feel very sorry for your wife who will be devastated when she finds out and yes, she will find out. I feel sorry for your children whose stable family will be jeopardy. I feel sorry for your AP's children, if she has any. I feel sorry for her husband, who has no clue about what is about to happen. I even feel sorry for you--because you are about to change the course of your life, and cause an incredible amount of pain to so many people.

 

I'm sure you won't listen to me or any of us who have already walked this path you are beginning to tread and it makes me sad. It's like watching a car crash in slo-mo.

[hopesndreams]

Wow Snowflower. I couldn't have said it better and I agree with everything in your post.

 

Mangled, your W deserves better than you. Enjoy the GIGS.

[PortuguesePrincess80]

I agree with Snowflower as well. You are certainly in an emotional affair at this point..and the longer this continues the further you will only see the "terrible" things your wife brings to the relationship. I was brought down from my spouse for a year..in which was how long his affair lasted. Since the discovery of his affair he has treated me like a princess...which kind of makes me laugh at this point..as I seriously am STILL not sure what I;m deciding what to do at this point.

 

Why not go back to counselling and ask your therapist questions about this? Why not tell your wife that your on the verge of a physical affair..as your already in an emotional one by telling your neighbour your problems at home? Why not give your wife the option to run as fast as she can from the man she thought to be faithful to her till death do u part? Why is it ALL about how you feel and this slut of a neighbour??? Do you seriously think you can have a relationship with this woman knowing that you both cheated on your significant other??? Seriously...get back with the program. If your seriously thinking of your child...then you would NEVER cheat on her mother..PERIOD!

[imagine]

So far what we know about her is, like yourself, she is untrustworthy. Initially a new partner is always great. Both you and her will become "alive". This is a chemical reaction pretty similar to the enzyme in chocolate.

 

Both of you (your neighbour and you) will feel very happy at your getting together. Statistically, however, there is only a 5 per cent chance that this relationship will survive...

 

Your focus should be on your own marriage first. If it fails - divorce. There should be no other party to influence your marriage.

 

My advice to you is to move. Explain to your wife that you have feelings for the neighbor.

 

View the marriage builders site to improve your marriage.

[2sunny]

first decide IF you intend to end the marriage or work at it getting better.

 

request counseling again - if she's unwilling to change anything you either accept it or leave the M. she needs to know her decision to participate facilitates your end result.

 

if she doesn't and the marriage ends... then and only then - when the D is FINAL - do you consider the neighbor and whether or not she becomes an available woman too.

 

proper order. helps immensely.

[Dexter Morgan]

And I'm falling for a neighbor. A married neighbor, at that. She's in a clearly unhappy marriage.

 

oh, but of course she is:rolleyes:

 

some people are unhappy in their marriage by simple virtue they are married. some can't handle long-term relationships as its the same old same old person they have to look at when having sex with.

 

as far as your situation, welcome to the wonderful world of raising a family. it isn't easy. of course you think the grass is greener on the other side, because you don't have the daily bulls##t with her to deal with.

 

so your wife is struggling to raise your kids, and you want to mess around with someone that doesn't have to do s##t for you?

 

 

So I find myself in a miserable position. My wife, whom I've adored for years, is now a miserable, brittle woman. She is putting on weight at a rapid pace.

 

boom, my guess is this is the real crux of your problem.

 

 

So now to the neighbour... she's smart, and beautiful, and she's married to a mean-spirited ass.

 

but of course he is:rolleyes:

 

wouldn't happen to be because his wife isn't trustworthy would it?

ya ya, I know, neither of you have done anything, but he can probably tell she is a strayer, and perhaps she did stray before.

 

i sure as hell wouldn't be a happy go lucky guy with a woman like that living with me.

 

We've gotten to know eachother over the past few years at neighborhood social events, and we have a tremendous amount in common, not the least of which is being trapped in ridiculous marriages.

 

ok, if this is how you feel, then don't hide behind your kids, set your wife free....then you can see if your neighbor is all she is cracked up to be. If she leaves her husband, then she may just be telling the truth about him.

 

if not, then I guess he aint all that bad huh?

 

I divorced my wife, and I can tell you without a doubt, my kids are just fine....better in fact since their father is happier now.

 

We share a desire for intimacy with a caring partner, and are frankly lonely as hell at home.

 

I've not so much as given her a hug or a peck on the cheek to date, despite a clear mutual attraction. And I've got to tell you, I'm not sure why. I'm confident I can keep any affair a secret.

 

how about being confident that you won't be such an ahole to have an affair? tell your wife you are thinking of leaving, or actually leave. don't cheat....it just makes you an a##hole.

 

work on your marriage. if it doesn't improve, don't cheat, divorce. Man up

[JamesM]

A few questions....

 

How old are you? Your wife?

 

How much weight has your wife gained (approx) and how tall is she? Does she look alot heavier?

 

What may have caused her apparent depression? Does she work or does she stay home with your child? Does she get out much?

 

Some points.....

 

 

First off....I totally understand why you would want an affair. Many men would not have even asked...they would have simply gone ahead with it. (Of course many men would not even consider an affair as an option either).

 

Second, of course, every cheater says some of the same things you did BECAUSE THAT is why so many people get into affairs. Their partners no longer hold up their end of the commitment made at the beginning of the marriage. Now your wife for whatever reasons (see below points) has decided that your feelings and concerns no longer matter. Because of that you find the neighbor attractive.

 

Third, the neighbor is attractive IMO only because your wife is no longer attractive. Your neighbor finds YOU attractive because her husband is no longer attractive. So the point is....if you both were happy in your marriages, then I doubt either would be so tempted.

 

Fourth, we all get attracted to other people during marriage. I have a few times. The question is always...is this person worth ruining my marriage over? Do I want to make myself look like a jerk for this woman...even if my own wife is not holding up her end of the marriage? The answer has always been no.

 

Fifth, your wife has some problems based on what you said. Having had a wife who was in a depression, I know what you mean. Having had a wife who gained weight and no longer cared, I understand why the neighbor looks good. Having had a wife who basically told me that if sex is important, then get it elsewhere, I know why you would feel after so much rejection that going elsewhere is justified. BUT....this is probably not your wife really talking. It is her mental condition at this point.

 

So...way back fourteen years ago (and for me twenty years ago), we made commitments to our wives. We said that we would cherish and honor them "until death do us part...FOR BETTER AND FOR WORSE." As difficult as it may be, this is the "worse." Back then, The idea of the marriage going bad seemed remote and unlikely. That is why it was easy to say those words.

 

Your wife IMO needs help with her depression. Before you bail out of the marriage (which would be better than having an affair...especially with a married woman who lives next door (can we say angry husband with a gun?), it might be good for you to research and try to solve all possible angles as to why your wife is in a depression. Something caused her to change. Your job is to find out why.

 

I don't see this as blaming the wife just so you can have an affair. I see this as a guy who has reached the end of his rope and is looking for some relief to an unhappy marriage. If you could change things, then you would love to have your wife back and then you would have no attraction to the neighbor. But you see no solutions and desperately need something to relieve the pain and frustration.

 

An affair will not be the answer. Rationally, you know this. However, emotionally, you see only the excitement that this woman offers you.

 

Stop and think. Your future and family depend on it.

Edited June 17, 2010 by JamesM

[Lecturer]

Umm, where is the compassion for this poor guy? He has done everything right in life up to this point, and he is suffering miserably. His wife sounds absolutely horrible, but his options limited to:

 

1) Continue to suffer

2) Have the affair, improving his own life with the possibility of hurting others

3) End the marriage and definitely hurt others

 

I'm not saying he should have an affair - I'm saying the choice is not black and white. If his affair is found out, he will hurt his wife, child, and the OW's family. If he ends the marriage, he will hurt his wife and child (and if the OW ends hers too, her family).

 

Some of the anti-cheating argument wreak of confused logic. Cheaters will speak down on their spouse and highly of their AP. WELL DUH! If it wasn't so, there would be no reason to cheat.

 

I sympathize with his situation and, as always, will not judge him poorly for any course of action he chooses.

[wheelwright]

Snowflower's response is kinder and more considered than it appears. There is a lot of hindsight in it, which you came here to get I guess. However, she doesn't deal with all the issues you raise.

 

I suppose I was in a similar situation to you pre my A. Except I felt I was not in love with my H and wanted to leave (guiltily) for several years before I noticed xMOM (ex married other man - meaning we were both M).

 

My A ended extremely painfully for absolutely all concerned. You have to read some of the threads about how hurt your wife will be. I had no idea.

 

I feel my xMOM, who I fell deeply in love with before anything even happened, used me as a testing ground to see if he could leave/needed to rejuvinate/wanted to stay in his M. Even though at the beginning, he stated clearly he wanted to stay. His M sounded to me a lot more dead than yours, but he still chose to stay in the end. He did split very briefly from his W once he felt he was irretrievably in love with me. But he went back.

 

My advice is not to use an A as a testing ground. In a way I did. I wanted to know if my feelings were real. I found they were. But WHAT THEN?

 

It's a lot less painful to deal with the WHAT THEN before an A. Shake up your W. Tell her how you feel. Tell her. I feel I should have told my H my feelings before the A. It would have been awful, but a peanut compared to the fireball that later exploded.

 

My H and I could have split amicably pre A if we had talked and found that the best option. Now, I don't even know if I stay because of the hurt I caused him or because of something more meaningful. He doesn't either. It has effectively taken away my choices, not expanded them.

 

If you have kids, are a decent person, and you have an A, you are forced to attempt painful reconciliation when DDAy occurs, where you would have been better off spending your time working out whether you need a new, real R, or a kick start to the M.

 

I understand you don't consciously feel you may leave your W, but your post speaks you are considering it.

 

Perhaps your kick start could be telling your W about your feelings?

 

You are ripe to fall in love. You are exactly like my xMOM was pre A. This A may bring you some wonderful moments, but you will both fall in love. This will make you want to leave your M. But you will see your desperate W, your innocent child, and you will quail. You probably still love your W.

 

You will hurt everyone concerned. You have to know if you will leave or not before you embark. Then you have to consider whether it is fair to stay with your W if you know you will leave one day if you don't tell her this.

 

Decide about your M before the A.

 

Another option (played out very successfully by my xMOM) would be to talk to your wife about splitting, find what she needs from you when she wants to stay, tell her what you need from her. Make this your crisis. Not the A.

 

And if all this fails, go s*** the MOW, tell your W, and see the M turn around. Painful, but effective.

 

In all honesty, with hindsight, you lose more than you gain. But I also believe that sometimes we need to shake up our lives hugely.

 

Good luck whichever road you take.

 

Sorry for long post! Have so much to say about this....

[Snowflower]

Umm, where is the compassion for this poor guy? He has done everything right in life up to this point, and he is suffering miserably. His wife sounds absolutely horrible, but his options limited to:

 

1) Continue to suffer

2) Have the affair, improving his own life with the possibility of hurting others

3) End the marriage and definitely hurt others

 

I'm not saying he should have an affair - I'm saying the choice is not black and white. If his affair is found out, he will hurt his wife, child, and the OW's family. If he ends the marriage, he will hurt his wife and child (and if the OW ends hers too, her family).

 

Some of the anti-cheating argument wreak of confused logic. Cheaters will speak down on their spouse and highly of their AP. WELL DUH! If it wasn't so, there would be no reason to cheat.

 

I sympathize with his situation and, as always, will not judge him poorly for any course of action he chooses.

 

Well, I stand by my post. I see a lot of pain for everyone, and yes, even the OP, if he continues down this road.

 

As for confused logic, it is the logic of the cheater, not the posts here that are the point of the argument.

 

Does his W sound like she has issues, well yes, she does. But, we only have one side of the story. Obviously, Mangled hasn't been the perfect spouse or he wouldn't consider cheating as an alternative to his unhappiness.

 

My hope is that Mangled would see the consequences for his actions and pause to consider before he takes that leap.

[Snowflower]

Nice posts, JamesM and Wheelwright. You both speak from different points of view. JamesM from a guy that has never had an A but appears to have at least thought about it in some way and can understand the mindset of the OP. Wheelwright, you speak from as a WS who was unhappy in her marriage and the fallout from the A.

 

I wish my H had posted a thread like this before he started an A...maybe it would have woken him up.

[Mangled]

Okay, so time to clear up some misconceptions and answer some questions. First of all, we're both in our early 40s. My wife has been about average weight for her height for a long time - about 130-140 lbs. I was never fixated on it. But in the last 2 years, she's put on about 40 lbs. And while some of you won't believe it, it's not really the weight that's off-putting - it's the moods. I'm not a really "physical" guy in terms of attraction - I don't generally notice appearances all that much, and before dating my wife, dated skinny girls and heavier girls at roughly the same rate. It's really not a big issue. It's the symptom I'm worried about. It's part of her overall pattern of ceasing to care and becoming totally self-absorbed.

 

Second, I don't really believe I'm having an emotional affair at this point. I'm kind of at the point where that's where it could turn, though, I think. I know her marriage is bad for 2 reasons. First, I am good friends with 2 couples that have known her and her husband for years. Their unsolicited comments and frank observations are almost entirely critical of him, his treatment of her, and his treatment of the kids. I've also seen them at various community events and been witness to the discomfort and awkward silence that generally accompany his rude, dismissive, and arrogant treatment of his family, even in public. Even my wife thinks he's an a-hole, for what it's worth.

 

But the neighbor (and not next-door, by the way) has never spoken to me of her husband in any significant way. And I have never discussed the specifics of my marriage with her. We've simply become friendly. I'm friendly with lots of people. But I get a definite vibe from her that I'm finding it difficult to ignore. But let me say this - I acknowledge the possibility that I'm wrong. I could make an overture to her and be shut down in an instant. I have no evidence that she's ever cheated on her husband, and only an inkling that there's a mutual attraction there.

 

I truly came on here for advice, and I'm not trying to justify bad behaviour, for the simple reason that I haven't behaved badly. To date, I've been respectful and kind to my wife. We've had our disagreements, but I've never strayed. I've had other opportunities over the years from colleagues, acquaintances, etc, and I've never acted in any way. I've never even considered it, to be honest. But several years in an intimacy vacuum are taking their toll. I'm not a perfect spouse - there's no such thing. But if I'm being totally honest, I truly believe I've lived up to and maintained the promises and conduct that I entered this marriage with, and my wife hasn't. I'm sympathetic to her struggles, but does that mean I have to spend the rest of my years in a loveless marriage because she outright refuses to acknowledge her issues?

 

I don't believe it's the neighbor that's the important part. As I said, that might not even go anywhere. It's just that I find myself open to an affair, even though it has never been my pattern or my intent. The neighbor has prompted thoughts and desires that I kind of thought I had always been relatively immune to, and it's my own emotional reactions that are frightening me, but also piquing my curiosity.

 

I appreciate all of the advice so far. I'm especially grateful for advice from people who have been in bad marriages, and have come through those spots - whether with the marriage intact or not. I have not had a physical affair. I'm not in an emotional affair. But I am sad, and frustrated, and lonely, and therefore considering my options.

 

Thanks again.

[Ronni_W]

Mangled,

Your wife, the traditional "relationship watchdog", is too depressed to perform that role. In the same way that you would be obligated to pick-up the slack for a sick employee, or risk ruining your business, your are obligated to pick-up the slack for your sick wife, or risk ruining your marriage.

 

This is just part of the promises and commitments that you made to yourself, to your wife, to your child and to your marriage.

 

I would strongly urge you to at least try doing something positive and meaningful to keep your family together, before you consider getting a divorce or having an affair.

 

Three books I'd highly recommend as very useful and also easy-to-read:

~ 'Forgive for Love: The Missing Ingredient for a Healthy and Lasting Relationship' by Fred Luskin

~ 'Till Death Us Do Part (Unless I Kill You First): A Step-by-Step Guide for Resolving Marital Conflict' by Jamie Turndorf

~ 'how to improve your marriage without talking about it' by P. Love and S. Stosny

 

The titles may not sound like they're addressing the specific problems your marriage is facing but, collectively, they will give you all the tools you need to do a heckuvva good job getting things back on track.

'Till Death Us Do Part' is written "at" women because, the author asserts, they are the emotional force/stability that keeps relationships humming, but do keep in mind that, while your "employee" is sick, this has become your job (yes, on top of everything else that you do.)

 

Your wife needs your love and support, and your child needs you to give it to her. They both deserve that from you. And, quite honestly, you deserve it from yourself (to live UP to your own highest vision of who you are and want to be.)

 

After you've read the books, then speak with your family doctor about helping your wife seek the professional care that she needs. (I am suggesting to read the books first, primarily because you'll learn some valuable skills about how to approach your wife with understanding, empathy, kindness, compassion...and love.)

 

Things can get much better, and they will -- but it needs your commitment and active participation. Deal with it as you would any aspect of your business that is failing...and be as determined to not let it fail.

 

Very best of luck to all of you.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Ronni_W

[NoIDidn't]

Your W is depressed, clinically depressed. Instead of cheating on her, you need to be finding ways to help her beyond telling her to go to therapy.

 

Everything you mentioned - self-absorbed, dirty house, she doesn't care anymore, mood swings - all hint at a pretty major depression and some self-medicating with food and alcohol.

 

Have you considered getting to the bottom of what is ailing her? Cheating is only going to compound the problem, and make you feel like a heel for hurting her more.

[Mangled]

Thanks for your post, Ronni. I disagree with your analogy, only because I'd ultimately fire a sick employee or hire a healthy replacement. But I get your point. I'm going to read the books you've recommended. Thank you for your thoughtful and helpful answer.

[Corporate]

Okay, so time to clear up some misconceptions and answer some questions. First of all, we're both in our early 40s. My wife has been about average weight for her height for a long time - about 130-140 lbs. I was never fixated on it. But in the last 2 years, she's put on about 40 lbs. And while some of you won't believe it, it's not really the weight that's off-putting - it's the moods. I'm not a really "physical" guy in terms of attraction - I don't generally notice appearances all that much, and before dating my wife, dated skinny girls and heavier girls at roughly the same rate. It's really not a big issue. It's the symptom I'm worried about. It's part of her overall pattern of ceasing to care and becoming totally self-absorbed.

 

Second, I don't really believe I'm having an emotional affair at this point. I'm kind of at the point where that's where it could turn, though, I think. I know her marriage is bad for 2 reasons. First, I am good friends with 2 couples that have known her and her husband for years. Their unsolicited comments and frank observations are almost entirely critical of him, his treatment of her, and his treatment of the kids. I've also seen them at various community events and been witness to the discomfort and awkward silence that generally accompany his rude, dismissive, and arrogant treatment of his family, even in public. Even my wife thinks he's an a-hole, for what it's worth.

 

But the neighbor (and not next-door, by the way) has never spoken to me of her husband in any significant way. And I have never discussed the specifics of my marriage with her. We've simply become friendly. I'm friendly with lots of people. But I get a definite vibe from her that I'm finding it difficult to ignore. But let me say this - I acknowledge the possibility that I'm wrong. I could make an overture to her and be shut down in an instant. I have no evidence that she's ever cheated on her husband, and only an inkling that there's a mutual attraction there.

 

I truly came on here for advice, and I'm not trying to justify bad behaviour, for the simple reason that I haven't behaved badly. To date, I've been respectful and kind to my wife. We've had our disagreements, but I've never strayed. I've had other opportunities over the years from colleagues, acquaintances, etc, and I've never acted in any way. I've never even considered it, to be honest. But several years in an intimacy vacuum are taking their toll. I'm not a perfect spouse - there's no such thing. But if I'm being totally honest, I truly believe I've lived up to and maintained the promises and conduct that I entered this marriage with, and my wife hasn't. I'm sympathetic to her struggles, but does that mean I have to spend the rest of my years in a loveless marriage because she outright refuses to acknowledge her issues?

 

I don't believe it's the neighbor that's the important part. As I said, that might not even go anywhere. It's just that I find myself open to an affair, even though it has never been my pattern or my intent. The neighbor has prompted thoughts and desires that I kind of thought I had always been relatively immune to, and it's my own emotional reactions that are frightening me, but also piquing my curiosity.

 

I appreciate all of the advice so far. I'm especially grateful for advice from people who have been in bad marriages, and have come through those spots - whether with the marriage intact or not. I have not had a physical affair. I'm not in an emotional affair. But I am sad, and frustrated, and lonely, and therefore considering my options.

 

Thanks again.

 

How about telling your wife the above, especially the highlighted part. Let her know that thing can make a huge turn if they are unchange in the future. Don't surprise her, talk to her and let her know your emotions and intentions.

[Ronni_W]

I'd ultimately fire a sick employee or hire a healthy replacement.

Yes, it would be rather easier if we could just "fire" them, wouldn't it? At least, it does feel that way, sometimes.

 

But alright then. Consider your wife as representing your MOST IMPORTANT customer who brings in 50% of your company's revenue, and whose excellent word-of-mouth referrals bring in the other 50%.

 

Now...do what you gotta do to keep that customer happy!

 

(This analogy actually works better for me -- hope it does the same for you )

[Mangled]

And for the record, "NoIDidnt", I have no idea why she's depressed.

 

There's been no catalytic event in her life that I can see, other than the birth of our daughter 8 years ago. She is very fond of her, despite her shortening temper and mood issues. This can't be a typical "post-partum" reaction. There's been no death, no loss, no violence, no other change.

 

I think I just have no idea how to get her any help. She goes to her doctor every 3 months for a prescription refill with no dialog. I've tried to talk to her doctor, but he is confidentiality-barred from talking to me. My own doctor has been of little help. The sessions of therapy I attended were not enlightening - the therapist was compassionate, and encouraged me to "keep my chin up", but didn't offer any specific remedies.

 

I recognize that an affair is a selfish act. I know it's a betrayal. I wouldn't approve of it for anybody. I've been quick to condemn friends who've strayed. But the loneliness is killing me, and in my own mind I'm striving for a way to end the loneliness without further damaging my wife. I know this is illogical. I probably couldn't go through with this thing anyway, even if the opportunity presented. But I'm a bit lost here.

 

I'm exercising more, and drinking almost nothing (1-2 drinks per week), so as not to drown my mood or further fuel my frustration. But even that has its negative consequences - my wife has mocked my exercise and moderation as an attack on her own weight gain.

 

Anyway, I wasn't sure that I should post here, but I'm glad I did. Although I have plenty of friends, and a few really close ones, I haven't felt comfortable talking to any of them about this. Weird that one hits the internet for a bit of intimate conversation.

[2sunny]

it's wise to be honest with your wife.

 

simply tell her that the way she participates in your relationship leaves you feeling very lonely and abandoned. tell her that you are considering an inappropriate friendship that could be detrimental to the intimacy and trust in your M. this is honest.

 

ask her if she intends to start participating actively and in a positive manner within the M. if she's not willing to - you can tell her she's left you no choice as you have been honest.

 

that is what maturity looks like when faced with adversity. tell her.

[Mangled]

I've told her, though I haven't threatened an affair. But I have told her that I am sad and lonely without intimacy, either emotional or physical, from her. I've told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life with neither. I've told her that I love her, that I respect her, that I want her, but that if she can't reciprocate, I'm left hurt, angry, confused, and let down. I've asked her, several times, to go to therapy. I've offered to attend with her, or not, whichever her preference. I've offered to go myself, and actually gone. I'm at a loss as to how much more I can tell her.

 

I suppose I could tell her I plan to cheat, or I'm growing open to it. But it seems like emotional blackmail to me. I think I'm trying to convince myself that I can betray her without her knowledge, thus sparing her additional discomfort and keeping the family together. I know a separation or a divorce would devastate her.

 

I also think that if I threaten an affair, I suddenly legitimize her feelings of inadequacy. Thus far, she has managed to maintain an intact marriage and a faithful spouse. It also would, I think, drive us further apart, which doesn't help.

 

Anyway, I'll read the books. It's not like I have anything else to do in the evenings.

[NoIDidn't]

And for the record, "NoIDidnt", I have no idea why she's depressed.

 

There's been no catalytic event in her life that I can see, other than the birth of our daughter 8 years ago. She is very fond of her, despite her shortening temper and mood issues. This can't be a typical "post-partum" reaction. There's been no death, no loss, no violence, no other change.

 

I think I just have no idea how to get her any help. She goes to her doctor every 3 months for a prescription refill with no dialog. I've tried to talk to her doctor, but he is confidentiality-barred from talking to me. My own doctor has been of little help. The sessions of therapy I attended were not enlightening - the therapist was compassionate, and encouraged me to "keep my chin up", but didn't offer any specific remedies.

 

I recognize that an affair is a selfish act. I know it's a betrayal. I wouldn't approve of it for anybody. I've been quick to condemn friends who've strayed. But the loneliness is killing me, and in my own mind I'm striving for a way to end the loneliness without further damaging my wife. I know this is illogical. I probably couldn't go through with this thing anyway, even if the opportunity presented. But I'm a bit lost here.

 

I'm exercising more, and drinking almost nothing (1-2 drinks per week), so as not to drown my mood or further fuel my frustration. But even that has its negative consequences - my wife has mocked my exercise and moderation as an attack on her own weight gain.

 

Anyway, I wasn't sure that I should post here, but I'm glad I did. Although I have plenty of friends, and a few really close ones, I haven't felt comfortable talking to any of them about this. Weird that one hits the internet for a bit of intimate conversation.

 

We never really know what sets off a depression. She could be suffering from sugar and yeast overload. Many food additives have been shown to cause depressions. Her depression could be caused by any number of things - including an undiagnosed mental disorder - though most would have shown up long before 40.

 

Is there a reason why you are confidentially barred from speaking with her doc? Have you asked her to remove it, attempted to attend an appt. with her to tell her doc what is going on at home for real?

 

Her doctor could still speak to you without revealing a thing to you if you really felt it necessary.

 

(An aside - Believe me I understand about the "intimate conversation" on the Internet comment. Sometimes friends IRL (In real life) just won't understand or keep it to themselves)

 

Good luck, Mangled.

 

I have to say, though, that I do find it interesting that you are considering an A with a neighbor that it doesn't seem like that's even on her mind right now. It seems like you are looking for the perfect "victim" (for lack of a better word). I mean, surely someone in such a bad marriage might be more open to your charms, huh? I don't say this to offend. I just found the fact that you haven't really spoken to her about her marital issues interesting. It sounds like its more of a fantasy of yours to have an affair with her than something that's actually on the verge of happening.

[2sunny]

I've told her, though I haven't threatened an affair. But I have told her that I am sad and lonely without intimacy, either emotional or physical, from her. I've told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life with neither. I've told her that I love her, that I respect her, that I want her, but that if she can't reciprocate, I'm left hurt, angry, confused, and let down. I've asked her, several times, to go to therapy. I've offered to attend with her, or not, whichever her preference. I've offered to go myself, and actually gone. I'm at a loss as to how much more I can tell her.

 

I suppose I could tell her I plan to cheat, or I'm growing open to it. But it seems like emotional blackmail to me. I think I'm trying to convince myself that I can betray her without her knowledge, thus sparing her additional discomfort and keeping the family together. I know a separation or a divorce would devastate her.

 

I also think that if I threaten an affair, I suddenly legitimize her feelings of inadequacy. Thus far, she has managed to maintain an intact marriage and a faithful spouse. It also would, I think, drive us further apart, which doesn't help.

 

Anyway, I'll read the books. It's not like I have anything else to do in the evenings.

 

tell her. that's being honest. then she has a decision to make. she either participates or she doesn't. she can then blame no one but herself as long as you are completely honest.

 

it usually motivates the W to make some effort. can't say it will for you - but there's no chance for this if you aren't willing to be honest with her.

[Corporate]

I've told her, though I haven't threatened an affair. But I have told her that I am sad and lonely without intimacy, either emotional or physical, from her. I've told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life with neither. I've told her that I love her, that I respect her, that I want her, but that if she can't reciprocate, I'm left hurt, angry, confused, and let down. I've asked her, several times, to go to therapy. I've offered to attend with her, or not, whichever her preference. I've offered to go myself, and actually gone. I'm at a loss as to how much more I can tell her.

 

What was her response to your request/demand?

 

Can you make the same request or have the same talk again? I am sure your last talk about this was more than a week ago.

[Ronni_W]

I think I just have no idea how to get her any help. ... But I'm a bit lost here.

Hugs, Mangled.

I know it is difficult, and I agree that talking with close friends, esp. if they also know her, is just...well, it breaks marital confidentiality, for starters.

 

You can also, of course, consider doing some individual counseling to help you better manage/deal with all your feelings -- the loneliness, helplessness, frustration, exhaustion, depletion and stress. It's a LOT to cope with on your own.

 

Given what I'm interpreting are your wife's current mental and emotional states, I would suggest to consider how effective/useful/fruitful it will really be to try to have any serious, pouring-your-heart-out discussions with her until you are a little more "sorted out" yourself; until you feel less burdened, resentful and victimized, and have acquired a few more relational tools/skills. Until then, I'd also stop trying to get her to counseling -- it hasn't worked yet, and it's not going to work until you can present 'your side' of things to her in a new way.

 

Neither of you are in a good place, right now, to be able to have the type of conversations (quality and content) that will actually support and promote lasting calm, peace or solutions.

 

There is also the high (IMO) chance that your wife's mind will misinterpret/distort your words and/or will miss, ignore or minimize their importance...and then you'll not only have a much more depressed wife to care for, but also one who will take all kinds of convincing that you do still love her, are NOT cheating on her, do want to work things out with her, etc., etc.; on top of which you'll feel more unappreciated, unloved, burdened, resentful and victimized.

 

It can just be a vicious, downward, black hole of a spiral, if difficult communications are attempted when both are at their lowest points -- even with a relationship counselor mediating, it can be hell challenging/almost impossible. In my experience.

 

Sending Comfort and Strength.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Ronni_W