Support vs Debate/Judgement?

[MizFit]

:bunny::bunny::bunny:Here! Here! there is another phrase I wish I had a dime for everytime I read it, along with that "bitter" word. Support...hmm....you say tomato, I say tomaaato.

 

I think every one of us speaks from past everything...hurt, happiness, successes, failures...we speak of what we know and feel. I don't think a BS or a reformed anything lingers in anything any more than the rest of the people in the world.

 

It's like people saying they don't want someone with 'baggage'...sorry Babe, but baggage is what makes us.

[MizFit]

Jennie-Jennie had started a thread on welcoming people to the forum...that it's seldom helpful to blast a person on their first post or two because they may well never come back and actually learn from the people who can help them.

 

My opinion and observations here...the new BS on the forum is very sympathetic because they have been the victim of a WS deceit and goodness knows what else. The new OW/OM is not looked at as sympathetic by anyone other than other OW/OM-as a rule. With those dynamics in play the posts to a new BS will reflect that sympathy from all camps initially...the OW/OM may get the sympathy from others and from some of the BS, but as a rule there are a few posters who fly in ready to do battle and save a soul. I will also say I've seen on the Infidelity thread when some of the posters who are so dead set on R that they swoop on anyone who may be exploring that option...that is just as bad. I find it a bit more severe to the new OW however.

 

I think that is when it's painful...it's so hard to see someone who needs the support to stay here be blindsided and know they'll never come back. My thoughts on support...when someone is new, no matter what their story, they should be treated a little more gently so they won't just leave. There quickly comes a time when the different opinions and thoughts are brought to light and the true support begins.

 

I just think it's important to sometimes make the focus on getting them to feel comfortable enough to not leave the place that could help them the most.

 

Just MO...

 

The underlined should have been stated more clearly. The posters who are so dead set against reconciliation...that's what I meant and it was not clear at all.

[JustJoe]

SG, when I came to LS, and tried to explain my situation, the only reason I wasn't crucified, was that somebody forgot to bring the nails. But I've learned. Even from my harshest critics, I've learned SOMETHING! Support can be a pat on the back or a kick in the ass, but each method has it's value. Too many posters come here for approval, not support, and considering that the majority of experienced posters have heard stories similar to theirs, before, they end up disappointed, and so leave. I mean after all, we are all adults, right? If an adult can't take criticism, then they aren't adults, are they?

[MizFit]

SG, when I came to LS, and tried to explain my situation, the only reason I wasn't crucified, was that somebody forgot to bring the nails. But I've learned. Even from my harshest critics, I've learned SOMETHING! Support can be a pat on the back or a kick in the ass, but each method has it's value. Too many posters come here for approval, not support, and considering that the majority of experienced posters have heard stories similar to theirs, before, they end up disappointed, and so leave. I mean after all, we are all adults, right? If an adult can't take criticism, then they aren't adults, are they?

 

You're a stong person, as am I...what about someone who walks through the door and is greeted with 'divorce them now' or 'he doesn't love you and never will'. I agree there is so much to learn and support isn't just someone being a cheerleader, but you can't support someone who isn't here. I think sometimes we need to let people find their feet and then go in for the kill!

[JustJoe]

Well, we can get Jennie and some of the other "nice", posters to set them up, then we can ambush them, when they least suspect it.

[pureinheart]

I think every one of us speaks from past everything...hurt, happiness, successes, failures...we speak of what we know and feel. I don't think a BS or a reformed anything lingers in anything any more than the rest of the people in the world.

 

It's like people saying they don't want someone with 'baggage'...sorry Babe, but baggage is what makes us.

 

Yes this is true...

 

 

 

SG, when I came to LS, and tried to explain my situation, the only reason I wasn't crucified, was that somebody forgot to bring the nails. But I've learned. Even from my harshest critics, I've learned SOMETHING! Support can be a pat on the back or a kick in the ass, but each method has it's value. Too many posters come here for approval, not support, and considering that the majority of experienced posters have heard stories similar to theirs, before, they end up disappointed, and so leave. I mean after all, we are all adults, right? If an adult can't take criticism, then they aren't adults, are they?

 

It depends on how sensitive/hypersensitive the person is, IMO it's best to ask questions first to see where the person is at, meaning denial, hurting more than they are communicating and so on.

 

Like you, there was a point in my life where critism worked fine until I learned the difference of constructive critism and rude critism...everyone is different and every sitch is different:)

[jennie-jennie]

SG, when I came to LS, and tried to explain my situation, the only reason I wasn't crucified, was that somebody forgot to bring the nails. But I've learned. Even from my harshest critics, I've learned SOMETHING! Support can be a pat on the back or a kick in the ass, but each method has it's value. Too many posters come here for approval, not support, and considering that the majority of experienced posters have heard stories similar to theirs, before, they end up disappointed, and so leave. I mean after all, we are all adults, right? If an adult can't take criticism, then they aren't adults, are they?

 

And yet you were already in NC mode when you came here. For those OW/OM who come hurting being in an affair and wanting to remain in the affair, does LS provide support for them too?

 

NC is not the only answer. By changing your mindset you can be happy although you choose to remain in the affair.

[pureinheart]

Well, we must certainly hope it is from a position of "past hurt". Otherwise it would mean that these posters were mean and cruel in themselves.

 

Oh My:eek:, this is very true also, and scary:eek:

[OWoman]

I can see that some of these MM are truly conflicted and torn. Sometimes they do come from bad marriages' date=' but that isn't always the case. Its hard to read stories from OW that have concocted a different reality for the MM than the one that he actually lives in. Its also pretty obvious when they do so as well. When one is called on that, its not judgment, its pointing out the obvious.[/quote']

 

I disagree with this.

 

When I first started posting here, I was given a lot of that as well.

 

"ALL MM say that!"

"That's just a line - it's part of the script!"

"I'm sure his BW is very nice, sane, and undeserving of this - it's his treatment of her that has made her seem bad / mad / unbalanced"

"His M is probably fine. ALL MMs share a bed with their BWs, and ALL MMs are having a crash-hot sex life with their BWs, and ALL MMs have happy family lives, no matter what they tell you."

"They just tell you that to reel you in. Not a word of it is true, ever."

 

And of course, the kicker:

 

"He'll never leave!"

 

And guess what? All those people who were so very certain they knew better, that it was just a case of a MM twisting reality to lure in another hapless OW he had no intention of creating a future with, etc... turned out to be so very wrong. That all the "scripting" and "lines" they THOUGHT they recognised turned out to be a pretty accurate depiction of what was actually going down.

 

People can be dead certain - but they can also be dead wrong!

 

Nobody reading here has all the facts. In many cases, even the people posting here don't have all the facts - but they do have more than the people reading their threads. Sure, it can be helpful to point out similarities or patterns with other stories, and to ask the OP to consider whether their MP might perhaps be spinning them a line - but categorically stating that this MUST BE the case, that no alternative is possible (as a good many posters do) just risks being proven very wrong. Or, worse, bringing that situation to bear... by sowing doubt, dissent and mistrust in a perfectly OK R, it's chance of success can be completely ruined just because someone got bullied into losing their trust for their lover.

[silktricks]

It's like people saying they don't want someone with 'baggage'...sorry Babe, but baggage is what makes us.

 

I'm so glad you said this - so I didn't have to!! I get such a laugh out of people saying something like "so and so has too much "baggage"', as if everyone over the age of 12 doesn't...

[silktricks]

You're a stong person, as am I...what about someone who walks through the door and is greeted with 'divorce them now' or 'he doesn't love you and never will'. I agree there is so much to learn and support isn't just someone being a cheerleader, but you can't support someone who isn't here. I think sometimes we need to let people find their feet and then go in for the kill!

:lmao:

Sometimes when I read a post from someone new, I just can't even bear to respond - it's just the same storyline all over again - and they are so full of either despair or hope. Either sometimes seems equally difficult to respond to - so I don't - until or unless the thread takes a turn where I (personally) can feel a little less jaded in my response.

[Adunaphel]

I do not think the "he will never leave", "he will cheat on you as well" posts are so bad. Not in themselves.

 

I get the impression that some "tough love" posters are genuinely trying to help. Either the OP, or the BS mentioned in the story, or the kids mentioned in the story.

Others are just hurting. It's easy to understand why a hurting BS might attack some OW, or vice-versa.

 

What I truly cannot stand is people who say hurtful things (with the purpose of making the other person feel bad... and not of making her/him open his/her eyes) to people who are very clearly in huge pain.

I find it extremely low and vile.

[BB07]

I think every one of us speaks from past everything...hurt, happiness, successes, failures...we speak of what we know and feel. I don't think a BS or a reformed anything lingers in anything any more than the rest of the people in the world.

 

It's like people saying they don't want someone with 'baggage'...sorry Babe, but baggage is what makes us.

 

 

Awesome post and so true!

 

That should be a sticky.

[Ms. Red]

:bunny::bunny::bunny:Here! Here! there is another phrase I wish I had a dime for everytime I read it, along with that "bitter" word. Support...hmm....you say tomato, I say tomaaato.

 

I wish I had a dime for every time I hear "side piece" "table scraps" and "cake eater". And a dollar for every time they appear in one of the first 10 posts. I'd have quite a bundle by now!

[fooled once]

I have seen many posts on the Infidelity section from new posters where the OW from this board will go over and start to poke at the hurting BS; telling her she must have done something wrong, she wasn't pleasing her man enough, the cheater doesn't really love the wife, he loves the OW, etc.

 

I also don't think people seek out a message board when things are all hunky dory in an affair. The majority of the people who seek out a message board are upset, frightened, unsure, etc. They are seeking help, they are wondering if they are the ONLY one who has felt this way, they have no one to talk to because .... mostly because they don't tell their friends/family they are involved in an affair becuase of shame, rejection, etc.

 

So for those who seem to think the happy newbies who post get so slammed...I don't see it. Because those posts are very rare. I do see some memebers who have been here for quite a while, who are very content to be the OW who post just to stir up stuff They like to get people riled up with their posts.

 

Those that are hurting/seeking advice get different views on how to handle their situation. Since there are more former OW here than happy OW, obviously the majority of the posts are going to be to leave, to not be disrespected, to not believe the common lines we have all heard.

 

Then there are the ones who all of a sudden, after months/years of sleeping with someone else's husband decide that the betrayed spouse should know what a jerk her H is. These are posts normally from rejected OW. Obviously the hypocricy of the sudden caring about the OW strikes a cord with many people -- you didn't care about her feelings while you were in the affair, why the sudden concern now?

 

EVERYONE brings their own life experiences to the board. To call those that disagree bitter or angry or not over the hurt is ridiculous. As much as OW don't like to be called names, neither to former OW like to be called names.

 

Take what you need and leave the rest. Put people on ignore if you disagree so strongly with their views. Skip a post if it angers you. It really is simple when you come down to it.

 

For the poster who wanted the definition of support:

 

support[səˈpɔːt]

vb (tr) 1. to carry the weight of

2. to bear or withstand (pressure, weight, etc.)

3. to provide the necessities of life for (a family, person, etc.)

4. to tend to establish (a theory, statement, etc.) by providing new facts; substantiate

5. (Literature / Rhetoric) to speak in favour of (a motion)

6. to give aid or courage to

7. to give approval to (a cause, principle, etc.); subscribe to [COLOR=#226699]to support a political candidature[/COLOR]

8. to endure with forbearance [COLOR=#226699]I will no longer support bad behaviour[/COLOR]

9. to give strength to; maintain [COLOR=#226699]to support a business[/COLOR]

10. (Performing Arts / Theatre) (tr) (in a concert) to perform earlier than (the main attraction)

11. (Performing Arts) (Performing Arts / Theatre) Films Theatre a. to play a subordinate role to

b. to accompany (the feature) in a film programme

 

12. (Performing Arts / Theatre) to act or perform (a role or character)

 

n 1. the act of supporting or the condition of being supported

2. a thing that bears the weight or part of the weight of a construction

3. a person who or thing that furnishes aid

4. the means of maintenance of a family, person, etc.

 

or

 

Support

To bear by being under; to keep from falling; to uphold; to sustain, in a literal or physical sense; to prop up; to bear the weight of; as, a pillar supports a structure; an abutment supports an arch; the trunk of a tree supports the branches.

To endure without being overcome, exhausted, or changed in character; to sustain; as, to support pain, distress, or misfortunes.

To keep from failing or sinking; to solace under affictive circumstances; to assist; to encourage; to defend; as, to support the courage or spirits.

To assume and carry successfully, as the part of an actor; to represent or act; to sustain; as, to support the character of King Lear.

To furnish with the means of sustenance or livelihood; to maintain; to provide for; as, to support a family; to support the ministers of the gospel.

To carry on; to enable to continue; to maintain; as, to support a war or a contest; to support an argument or a debate.

To verify; to make good; to substantiate; to establish; to sustain; as, the testimony is not sufficient to support the charges; the evidence will not support the statements or allegations.

To vindicate; to maintain; to defend successfully; as, to be able to support one's own cause.

To uphold by aid or countenance; to aid; to help; to back up; as, to support a friend or a party; to support the present administration.

A attend as an honorary assistant; as, a chairman supported by a vice chairman; O'Connell left the prison, supported by his two sons.

The act, state, or operation of supporting, upholding, or sustaining.

That which upholds, sustains, or keeps from falling, as a prop, a pillar, or a foundation of any kind.

That which maintains or preserves from being overcome, falling, yielding, sinking, giving way, or the like; subsistence; maintenance; assistance; reenforcement; as, he gave his family a good support, the support of national credit; the assaulting column had the support of a battery.

 

Let's also remember the WHOLE definition for this forum

 

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

I do wonder about the "committed partner" part though. Committed to his/her wife? Committed to his/her family? Committed to the affair?

 

Not sure how he/she can be committed to the AP since they are already committed to someone else

[TinaniT]

Where I posted it, I was referring to those who felt need to attack posters or be cruel. One must assume a reason when one wants to assume people are basically good, and that is where we arrive. The alternative speaks to who these people are and I have found I'm liking it here and am not wanting to make such assumptions about regulars.

[bentnotbroken]

I wish I had a dime for every time I hear "side piece" "table scraps" and "cake eater". And a dollar for every time they appear in one of the first 10 posts. I'd have quite a bundle by now!

 

 

Since I don't use side piece or table scraps to describe anyone that wouldn't be me. Yes I do use the term cake eater to describe a person who is married yet cheats. I am regularly reffered to as bitter, stuck in the past, angry or in pain. I am none of those things, but I am convicted. I and my faith are one. It is part of who I am and I speak from that faith. Whether one is a believer or not. Since most people who have affairs post about their insights and feelings about the affair without it mattering whether others believe in affair or not.

[bentnotbroken]

Where I posted it, I was referring to those who felt need to attack posters or be cruel. One must assume a reason when one wants to assume people are basically good, and that is where we arrive. The alternative speaks to who these people are and I have found I'm liking it here and am not wanting to make such assumptions about regulars.

 

 

That is not an assumption I make and life keeps proving me right.

[OWoman]

I do wonder about the "committed partner" part though. Committed to his/her wife? Committed to his/her family? Committed to the affair?

 

Not sure how he/she can be committed to the AP since they are already committed to someone else

 

I guess that would depend on how one understands "commitment". Are they committed because they're there, or are they committed because their heart and soul is in it?

[jthorne]

Ugh. I get so sick of this debate. I haven't even been here that long, and have had my fill of it. All those OW's whining and crying because other people won't "support" them while they are banging a married man.

 

Seriously?

 

Either I am getting old and set in my ways, or my time here is about done.

[Silly_Girl]

People can't teach you from THEIR mistakes though can they? We learn from our own. I think if posters feel they're not being listened to they'll clam up and learn nothing because they'll not log on again.

 

I've seen posts where the OP is being TOLD how or what her relationship is by other, often wiser posters. I think maybe some people need time or patience to reach conclusions on their own, or need to be helped to see things another way.

 

No one needs to condone or support behaviour they don't agree with. Not suggesting that.

[bentnotbroken]

People can't teach you from THEIR mistakes though can they? We learn from our own. I think if posters feel they're not being listened to they'll clam up and learn nothing because they'll not log on again.

 

I've seen posts where the OP is being TOLD how or what her relationship is by other, often wiser posters. I think maybe some people need time or patience to reach conclusions on their own, or need to be helped to see things another way.

 

No one needs to condone or support behaviour they don't agree with. Not suggesting that.

 

 

I think they may not post, but I do think they continue to read. I think there are many who read and never post. I don't know if they will read anything that will make the picture more vivid or at least answer some questions. One of the reasons I do post.

[silktricks]

Ugh. I get so sick of this debate. I haven't even been here that long, and have had my fill of it. All those OW's whining and crying because other people won't "support" them while they are banging a married man.

 

Seriously?

 

Either I am getting old and set in my ways, or my time here is about done.

 

I hope you're not done yet - you bring a refreshing perspective to LS.

[Owl]

I can think of a pretty hefty number of "newbies" that came here and didn't like my posts, felt that they were 'harsh' or non-supportive...and then later thanked me for my advice.

 

They didn't like my posts to begin with because THEIR EXPECTATIONS didn't match with what they truly needed to hear.

 

They came wanting validation, but what they needed was support.

 

No one likes hearing that they're wrong...so of course they'll immediately reject advice offhand that makes them feel that way. But often that advice still sinks in...and eventually they recognize that it was truly what they needed to hear, even if it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

[Heather1]

When I needed support for NC, this was the place to come. I actually got a lot of support here, I needed to see things for what they were & get out after an abrupt ending. I'm actually really grateful to LS for that, I needed to back off.

 

I just PM's someone saying this is the A graveyard. I went about my days as normal as I could, because no one knew & I couldn't bring it up to anyone. This was the only place I could post what I was really going through, judged or not. Now one person knows in my real life, and I'm trying to work out what I want.