'Reformed' OW/Ms - what's your take?

[turnstone]

I put the word 'reformed' in inverted commas because although y'all get what I mean by it, its a word that implies certain things that I don't think are necessarily positive.

 

Anyway! I'd be really interested to see your, as a 'reformed' OW, opinion on what you think is helpful advice to a woman about to get into OW status, or who's already there an looking to get out.

 

Would you have found LS helpful? In what way? Would you have found it helpful in reaching any conclusion about getting out of the affair?

 

I'm not restricting 'helpful' to mean 'get out and get out now' kind of advice, but anything at all that you would or have felt enabled you in some way, whatever that way may have been.

 

Thank you in advance

[Hazyhead]

I'm not sure if I'd call it 'reformed' as such, but I was an OW and would never be again. Aside from what the destructive relationship did to others, I put myself second, and accepted that from him. What enabled me to 'snap out of it'? Mostly, I deserve better. I'm limited for time, hence the short response, but that's a good question turnstone.

 

I guess also reformed in that I would never be so again.

[norajane]

I don't think anybody listens to advice unless they are really ready to hear it. It's difficult to accept that your situation is not particularly unique, and difficult to hear that most of these WS's don't leave their spouses.

 

So many marriages end in divorce, yet it seems like these WS's are the least likely to ever end their marriages or their affairs unless their spouses kick them out, or the OW/OM end the affair. I guess that stands to reason - if WS's were good at conflict resolution and dealing with problems straight-up, they would have made the choice to divorce long ago instead of choosing an option that allows them to stay married while still getting validation and pleasure on the side.

 

I think LS helps people who are thinking about getting into an affair. There have been more than a few posters who have been surprised to hear that everything the WS was telling them was textbook-cheater, and have chosen not to get involved, particularly with someone at work.

[White Dove]

Would you have found LS helpful? In what way? Would you have found it helpful in reaching any conclusion about getting out of the affair?

 

I don't think I fall into the 'reformed' category nor the 'OW' category as I've never been one but I can empathise with those who were/are in that category.

 

I came to LS to ask opinions on step-parenting and saw the OW/OM board and have been reading ever since. Even the Infidelity board caught my eyes because my mother was cheated on a few times and again, I can empathise with them.

 

I find LS helpful so far -- I have understood certain things I never did and some of the threads have widen my horizon.

 

I notice that some people that come here for advice, only want to listen to the advice that suits them or rather what they want to hear. However, I do know that some of the advice on getting out of the affair have been very helpful to some.

[BB07]

I'm not reformed.......anything, I'm just me.

 

I was an OW....but I wouldn't ever do that again to myself, it was much too painful and it was self destructive on many levels. I think the majority of OW feel as I do....notice I said the majority, not everyone and for those that feel differently, it's their life, their choices.

 

I don't really care for the labels used around here.

[marlena]

All I can say is that I wish I had found LS back then when I was involved with a MM. I know it would have helped me gain so much insight not to mention the support it would have provided.

 

As for advice, like norajane pointed out, people in situations like this are mostly in denial and would not heed advice. It is human nature. We all need to make our own mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

 

Still, the one piece of advice I would give anyone whether he/she chooses to listen or not is simply this: DON'T DO IT!

 

On an aside, I do not consider myself a reformed anything! I do not feel guilty for having been involved with a married man. It can happen to anyone. It was simply a stupid move on my part, a terrible lack of judgement.

[fooled once]

I'm not reformed.......anything, I'm just me.

 

I was an OW....but I wouldn't ever do that again to myself, it was much too painful and it was self destructive on many levels. I think the majority of OW feel as I do....notice I said the majority, not everyone and for those that feel differently, it's their life, their choices.

 

I don't really care for the labels used around here.

 

I completely agree with this entire post, especially the first and last lines

[marlena]

I completely agree with this entire post, especially the first and last lines

 

So do I. "Reformed" has a moralistic tone that turns my stomache.

[anne1707]

So do I. "Reformed" has a moralistic tone that turns my stomache.

 

Agreed

 

Both moralistic and judgemental - and usually used by those who complain most about this kind of thing

[Fallen Angel]

Agreed

 

Both moralistic and judgemental - and usually used by those who complain most about this kind of thing

 

The title of reformed OW sounds "moralistic" because that is it's intent. To distinguish between the moralistic attitudes of the reformed OW and the non-moralistic attitudes of a fOW, a current OW, and an unapologetic OW.

 

That is the reasoning behind the term, to make the distinction.

 

I do not see what the problem is.

 

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS][sIZE=4]mor·al·ist[/sIZE][/FONT]

 

 

–noun 1. a person who teaches or inculcates morality.

 

2. a philosopher concerned with the principles of morality.

 

3. a person who practices morality.

 

4. a person concerned with regulating the morals of others, as by imposing censorship.

 

I identify reformed OW as mostly relating to the number four definition of a moralist.

[jennie-jennie]

Agreed

 

Both moralistic and judgemental - and usually used by those who complain most about this kind of thing

 

But there seems to be a need for such a term, judging by the OP. Nobody has been able to come up with a better replacement.

[BB07]

But there seems to be a need for such a term, judging by the OP. Nobody has been able to come up with a better replacement.

 

 

Why does there have to be a replacement......isn't OW enough?

 

After all.......we are all here as individual's with our own stories. Why can't we just be who and what we are?

[jennie-jennie]

Why does there have to be a replacement......isn't OW enough?

 

After all.......we are all here as individual's with our own stories. Why can't we just be who and what we are?

 

Because human beings have a need to describe the phenomenas around them with words. And it is pretty obvious that there are two distinct subgroups of OW here on the forum.

 

For lack of better words: the unapologetic and the reformed.

 

I don't understand why reformed is viewed as a bad word. I can't see why.

Edited June 20, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Holding-On]

Maybe... unapologetic, "reformed" and wiser. I'll pick the last thanks.

[jthorne]

Why does there have to be a replacement......isn't OW enough?

 

After all.......we are all here as individual's with our own stories. Why can't we just be who and what we are?

I think FORMER OW is appropriate if a label is required.

IME, most fOW that refer to themselves as ROW do it in jest. Other current OW that use the term typically mean it as an insult.

So that there's no judgement implied, isn't "former" enough?

[BB07]

Because human beings have a need to describe the phenomenas around them with words. And it is pretty obvious that there are two distinct subgroups of OW here on the forum.

 

For lack of better words: the unapologetic and the reformed.

 

I don't understand why reformed is viewed as a bad word. I can't see why.

 

 

I understand what you are saying.....but I don't need the labels nor do I desire to use them on others or have one of them used to describe me. Every story has similarities but each one is unique, so I don't feel the need for labels. IMO.....it just ruffles feathers, which is needless.

[Adunaphel]

Anyway! I'd be really interested to see your, as a 'reformed' OW, opinion on what you think is helpful advice to a woman about to get into OW status, or who's already there an looking to get out.

 

I am not really reformed... anyway my idea of helpful advice is:

- advice about loving yourself, remembering who you are, knowing what you are in for and asking yourself the right questions.

- advice about protecting yourself (do not ignore the red flags, do not allow the other person to manipulate you, to take adavantage of you, to use you, to fool you or to walk all over you).

- advice that might help you to see your AP's true face without those pink-tinted glasses.

[marlena]

Because human beings have a need to describe the phenomenas around them with words. And it is pretty obvious that there are two distinct subgroups of OW here on the forum.

 

For lack of better words: the unapologetic and the reformed.

 

I don't understand why reformed is viewed as a bad word. I can't see why.

 

 

 

First of all, having an affair does not make you a phenomenon any more than not having one does.

 

Secondly, unapologetic implies some sort of wrongdoing, therefore, moralistic and judgemental. Many, such as I, do not feel they have done anything wrong.

 

Reformed implies having some kind of previous flaw that has to be rectified. Again, a wrong premise. I, like many, do not feel I am "flawed" and need to be "reformed".

 

I am fine the way I am, thank you very much.

Edited June 20, 2010 by marlena

[Fallen Angel]

First of all, having an affair does not make you a phenomenon any more than not having one does.

 

Secondly, unapologetic implies some sort of wrongdoing, therefore, moralistic and judgemental. Many, such as I, do not feel they have done anything wrong in a moralistic sense.

 

Reformed implies having some kind of previous flaw that has to be rectified. Again, a wrong premise. I, like many, do not feel I am flawed and need to be "reformed" in any way. I am fine the way I am, thank you very much.

 

AH but here we hit the nail right on the head!!!! Because that is EXACTLY what a rOW feels she has done!!! She feels that she has rectified a flaw in herself and is now a "new", hence "reformed", and BETTER person because of rectifying what she saw as a personal flaw!!!

[BB07]

Many, such as I, do not feel they have done anything wrong in a moralistic sense.

 

I am fine the way I am, thank you very much.

 

This is a good example of the differences among us......Malena's statement above, she doesn't feel that she has done anything wrong in a moralistic sense, but yet I do, but I'm speaking for myself, not Marlena. What ever Marlena feels is her thoughts and feelings and what I feel are mine. It doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong.....it is just different.

 

Labels....are often used here to imply wrong or right and none of us can force our views on someone else. We can nicely make our points and state our views, but not everyone will see things the same. It's a diverse group here, with different backgrounds and different origins.

[jennie-jennie]

This is a good example of the differences among us......Malena's statement above, she doesn't feel that she has done anything wrong in a moralistic sense, but yet I do, but I'm speaking for myself, not Marlena. What ever Marlena feels is her thoughts and feelings and what I feel are mine. It doesn't make one of us right and the other wrong.....it is just different.

 

Labels....are often used here to imply wrong or right and none of us can force our views on someone else. We can nicely make our points and state our views, but not everyone will see things the same. It's a diverse group here, with different backgrounds and different origins.

 

Well, I don't use labels to imply wrong or right. I use them to distinguish between different subgroups as I see them. If you have read my posts, you should know I am all for moral relativism, not moral absolutism.

[jennie-jennie]

First of all, having an affair does not make you a phenomenon any more than not having one does.

 

Secondly, unapologetic implies some sort of wrongdoing, therefore, moralistic and judgemental. Many, such as I, do not feel they have done anything wrong.

 

Reformed implies having some kind of previous flaw that has to be rectified. Again, a wrong premise. I, like many, do not feel I am "flawed" and need to be "reformed".

 

I am fine the way I am, thank you very much.

 

This post is interesting, because it shows how words can be interpreted very differently by different people. Words that are harmless to me like phenomenon, unapologetic and reformed are words which Marlena does not like in this context.

 

However, I can't stop using words which explain the world to me just because someone else disapproves of them. Not when my intent is not malicious. Not when I can find no better words to convey what I want to say.

 

I can try and explain that I mean no harm with these words, that they just help me in understanding the world. That is all I can do.

[Fieldsofgold]

Wow, although interesting, this thread has gotten totally off topic.

 

The original topic is a REALLY good one, with lots of potential benefit, not just to OW, but potentially good information to help anyone in a relationship. I'd really like to hear more "advice/opinions."

[turnstone]

Did none of you read the OP? The bit where I specifically stated I didn't like the word myself but were using it because you all know what I mean by it? No? Honestly ladies, no need to be defensive with me, I know where you're coming from, that's why I put it in inverted commas and made my disclaimer. Hey, at least it provoked attention

 

I think FORMER OW is appropriate if a label is required.

IME, most fOW that refer to themselves as ROW do it in jest. Other current OW that use the term typically mean it as an insult.

So that there's no judgement implied, isn't "former" enough?

 

'Former' OW doesn't cover what I need it to in this context. There's former OW out there who would gladly have another affair with a married man. I was asking those women who had discovered it wasn't doing them any good and got out as a result. 'Wiser' would be great, but implies other things that other OW wouldn't like. Oh hell, wiser it is. WOW is a much better acronym

 

So anyway I'm interested as to what helped the WOW decide that an affair wasn't for them and how LS, did or could have played a part.

 

I don't think anybody listens to advice unless they are really ready to hear it. It's difficult to accept that your situation is not particularly unique, and difficult to hear that most of these WS's don't leave their spouses.

Sure, which is why I asked about those WOW who wanted to get out, or were unsure about getting in in the first place.

 

So many marriages end in divorce, yet it seems like these WS's are the least likely to ever end their marriages or their affairs unless their spouses kick them out, or the OW/OM end the affair. I guess that stands to reason - if WS's were good at conflict resolution and dealing with problems straight-up, they would have made the choice to divorce long ago instead of choosing an option that allows them to stay married while still getting validation and pleasure on the side.

 

I think LS helps people who are thinking about getting into an affair. There have been more than a few posters who have been surprised to hear that everything the WS was telling them was textbook-cheater, and have chosen not to get involved, particularly with someone at work.

 

I didn't know that, what a great thing!

 

All I can say is that I wish I had found LS back then when I was involved with a MM. I know it would have helped me gain so much insight not to mention the support it would have provided.

What would that support have entailed? Would it have given you an insight into the MM's feelings/thoughts/motivations? Would that have been useful? Would it have given you encouragement to get out?

 

As for advice, like norajane pointed out, people in situations like this are mostly in denial and would not heed advice. It is human nature. We all need to make our own mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

So why do OW come here? Do you think that even subconsciously there are some OW who although protesting their happiness with the situation are actually looking for a change? And I am NOT thinking of anyone in particular when I say that before y'all get defensive again

 

Still, the one piece of advice I would give anyone whether he/she chooses to listen or not is simply this: DON'T DO IT!

 

On an aside, I do not consider myself a reformed anything! I do not feel guilty for having been involved with a married man. It can happen to anyone. It was simply a stupid move on my part, a terrible lack of judgement.

 

That's interesting and I think it brings up the question of the difference between shame and guilt. But that's probably for another thread.

 

Oh and......hopefully I've covered the 'reformed' word now.

[White Flower]

I don't think anybody listens to advice unless they are really ready to hear it. It's difficult to accept that your situation is not particularly unique, and difficult to hear that most of these WS's don't leave their spouses.

 

So many marriages end in divorce, yet it seems like these WS's are the least likely to ever end their marriages or their affairs unless their spouses kick them out, or the OW/OM end the affair. I guess that stands to reason - if WS's were good at conflict resolution and dealing with problems straight-up, they would have made the choice to divorce long ago instead of choosing an option that allows them to stay married while still getting validation and pleasure on the side.

 

I think LS helps people who are thinking about getting into an affair. There have been more than a few posters who have been surprised to hear that everything the WS was telling them was textbook-cheater, and have chosen not to get involved, particularly with someone at work.

This is a really good post Norajane.

 

MM had a long-term A with a family friend before I came along. Apparently they kept telling each other that it was their A that kept them both happily M, or at least kept their Ms together.