'Reformed' OW/Ms - what's your take?

[Fallen Angel]

Did none of you read the OP? The bit where I specifically stated I didn't like the word myself but were using it because you all know what I mean by it? No? Honestly ladies, no need to be defensive with me, I know where you're coming from, that's why I put it in inverted commas and made my disclaimer. Hey, at least it provoked attention

 

unfortunately the fact that you spoke of it at all in the OP opened the topic of the term reformed up for discussion without it being a thread-jack.

 

'Former' OW doesn't cover what I need it to in this context. There's former OW out there who would gladly have another affair with a married man. I was asking those women who had discovered it wasn't doing them any good and got out as a result. 'Wiser' would be great, but implies other things that other OW wouldn't like. Oh hell, wiser it is. WOW is a much better acronym

 

Wiser denotes that they have somehow intellectualy surpassed an OW who is still in an affair. Not a truism for many, I assure you.

 

So anyway I'm interested as to what helped the WOW decide that an affair wasn't for them and how LS, did or could have played a part.

 

Sure, which is why I asked about those WOW who wanted to get out, or were unsure about getting in in the first place.

 

 

 

I didn't know that, what a great thing!

 

Many possible futureOW get advice here that stops them from actually becoming OW. And many who come here seeking to leave get invaluable advice from fOW, rOW, OW, BS and even f and current WS (though they tend to be much less represented in the LS population.)

 

What would that support have entailed? Would it have given you an insight into the MM's feelings/thoughts/motivations? Would that have been useful? Would it have given you encouragement to get out?

 

So why do OW come here? Do you think that even subconsciously there are some OW who although protesting their happiness with the situation are actually looking for a change? And I am NOT thinking of anyone in particular when I say that before y'all get defensive again

 

Yes, I would say that some OW who come here and claim happiness are looking for a change. I think that some OW who come here looking for a change make a change that doesn't include leaving the relationship, but by redefining it and renegotiating it to get their needs met.

 

I think many OW who come here seeking no change end up being flogged with so much "NC is the be all end all" that they self-destruct their relationships by taking advice they are not ready to take, and end up leaving LS without admitting that they have failed at NC and are now deeper in a rut that they do not know how to get out of...

 

That's interesting and I think it brings up the question of the difference between shame and guilt. But that's probably for another thread.

 

I am a proudly happy OW and my advice to someone who is contemplating an affair is always "DON'T DO IT"...

 

Not all affairs are unhealthy disasters waiting to happen, but I would say that the majority are, and unless the OW has the right mindset it can be soul crushing.

 

It is always best to avoid it if possible, but once the tiger is out of it's cage, it is not an easy task to get it back in. So in cases where the affair is already in progress, it is best to advise on the specifics of the situation rather than give blanket answers that cover 'all affairs" that kind of advice is rarely heeded, and if it is, it often backfires leaving the OW in a much weaker emotional place.

 

Oh and......hopefully I've covered the 'reformed' word now.

 

One could hope, but it is not likely...

 

All responses in bold.

[nadiaj2727]

I came to LS as an OW and am really thankful for the advice I received.

 

I have no problem with the word reformed. For me it is about rectifying a flaw in myself like someone else was talking about. Just like a reformed smoker has no problem being called that (I wouldn't think). For me, being involved in an A was dangerous and bad for me, just like smoking, so I would much rather be a reformed OW than a current OW. I don't give myself that label but if I read it I am not offended.

 

If someone doesn't think their affair is bad for them or dangerous, more power to them... but IME and from reading on these boards it seems affairs almost always hurt everyone or someone involved. The advice about knowing what you're getting into and what you want is good. If you don't want to be someone's side piece, don't have an affair. If you do, okay... I realize there are other reasons women are OW but for me it was the stereotypical "but I love him and he loves me" stuff. So now my advice would be the same as I got when I came here. If it's really love, it will be there on the other side, when the person is available. If not, then it wasn't meant to me.

[White Flower]

Hey, at least it provoked attention

 

Ha ha, this topic will ALWAYS provoke attention!

[marlena]

turnstone;2852674]Did none of you read the OP? The bit where I specifically stated I didn't like the word myself but were using it because you all know what I mean by it? No? Honestly ladies, no need to be defensive with me, I know where you're coming from, that's why I put it in inverted commas and made my disclaimer. Hey, at least it provoked attention

 

Ok, gotcha!!

 

 

What would that support have entailed? Would it have given you an insight into the MM's feelings/thoughts/motivations? Would that have been useful? Would it have given you encouragement to get out?

Well, first of all, I would have realized that my relatiohship was not unique at all, that there were women from all over the world who were experiencing the same feelings as I, that well, sadly, it was pretty cliche. It always helps to share a problem, whatever problem that may be. This is not restricted to affairs. As long as advice is given constructively, without blame or judgement, it is always helpul. I think LS is great in this way. There are some lovely people on here. The not so lovely can simply be ignored, just like in real life.

 

 

As to whether or not it would have given me insight to MM's feelings, thoughts and motivations, yes, I think I would have better understood what his take on the relationship was, what it meant to him and what he was getting out of it. To put it another way, I think talking to others would have helped me remove the tinted glasses and see the REALITY of my situation. I was, no doubt, in fogland. I want to stress, however, that fogland can exist in any relationship. Maybe it comes with the territory of falling in love, in the beginning stages at least.

 

As for helping me get out, yes again, sometimes we all need that extra nudge to get us going. Advice, however, is only helpful when we are open to it. If we are adamant in our positions, it's uselss.

[sadintexas]

Honestly, there wasn't much that was actually said here that deterred me in any way from proceeding with the A. I was already in the A with MM for a short time (I was single) when I found LS, but everything I read I felt pertained to others. We were different, and special, and our love was "real". For the record, I've ALWAYS been the type of person who had to learn from her own mistakes. I'm just stubborn like that.

 

I was looking to speak with others in the same situation I was, and frankly was looking for success stories (I should say, I expected to find success stories so that I could wax poetically about my future with MM). I didn't expect all the negativity and all the warnings, but read them nonetheless. But I still refused to acknowledge there could be some truth to what was being said about A's and MP and OP.

 

At some point, I think they started to sink in and those words would come back to haunt me when the actions/situations described started to materialize. But still, the bottom line was that I moved on when I grew tired of waiting and realized I needed more. The board did become a source of comfort and support for me no doubt. I felt like the child who had been warned not to touch the hot stove (about 3 dozen times) but did anyway, and the board was the caring mother who cared for the wound with a loving hug anyway

 

So to make a short story long lol, I don't know that there's much more that can be said here. People believe what they want to believe and will talk about and accept what they choose. But this resource being available to help support people as they go through all of the emotions tied to being in and ending an A is priceless.

Edited June 21, 2010 by sadintexas

[Fieldsofgold]

I think the things I read here were "reinforcing." I didn't know the man I was dating was M, or that he had an OW. He has been trying for months now to convince me that "I" am the special one, the one he was always looking for. I will not talk to him at all, but he emails me multiple times a day, sends flowers, supposedly has ditched the OW (no mention of W, yet! lol)

 

Many of the things he says/does, I can read right here on LS! It's a reality check for me. Also, he had mentioned one time how he keeps things in compartments. I never understood that until I read about it here, on LS.

 

Reading here on LS has helped me better understand the dynamics of affairs, the different kinds of affairs, the different reasons for affairs. It has helped me better understand what is going on with the WS.

 

But probably the biggest and best change: It has helped me, a former BS, understand the thought processes, feelings, and motivating factors influencing the OW. I think that has been the single most enlightening thing for me. I really appreciate when women who are in an affair share openly and honestly about themselves. I know it must be hard sometimes, probably even scary, sometimes, given the reactions they may reap. But it helps me understand them and see them as individuals, women with many of the same hopes, hurts and concerns as me. They cease to be just "OW," and become individuals, women with whom I can relate on many levels. While I do not agree with what they are doing, while I still feel strongly about affairs, in many cases, I have better understanding now, and realize that in some cases, there are many more similarities than differences. I think I have more genuine concern, understanding and care for OW now, as individuals, than I had previous to LS.

 

World peace is one step closer.

[jthorne]

All I can say is that had I found LS sooner, I would have spared myself a lot of agony.

[donnamaybe]

Perhaps the strength others have found which helped them to extricate themselves from the dead end of an A is viewed with jealousy by others which then engenders the derogatory terminology of "reformed" in the context that it has been used on this forum.

[2sure]

I am definitely in the "reformed" category. As such I can sincerely say that Not being an OW comes from 2 places: Hindsight or the sense not to do it in the first place. I really dont think it is a good idea for anyone. I will go further and say that 90% of the OW here who think they are comfortable with the circumstances ...are kidding & short changing themselves. I know its tough to hear, I know they dont believe it. But I was that OW who thought : I wasnt the one cheating, I never made promises, its harmless, I dont want the MM to leave, its convenient for me, its just for sex, I'm in control.

 

All justifications for accepting less than other people would. The only thing in your control is you are hurting yourself as opposed to someone else doing it.

 

So, like I said its all hindsight, its 20/20 and it doesnt help anyone else.

 

The OW that come to LS and want to defend their positions...are simply looking for a place to add verbiage to their - for the most part - intangible relationship.

 

I will not dog anyone here for their choices, I am in no position to do that - but if I'm honest , I would ask any OW to look deep and figure out what it is about themselves that makes them feel they should accept less and what about themselves projects to MM that she will?

[skywriter]

I consider myself someones, former OW.

 

Long story short, looking back, I was at a very vulnerable point in my life.

 

It took a long time,for me to piece together,how I ever got involved in an A. I believed I was smarter and stronger than that.

 

Now I know that I am,smarter & stronger than that. I consider myself, my own woman.

As far as advising others, I look at every poster as a unique individual , in an unfortunant and not so unique situation, ie; A.

 

At the same time, the way you can address one individual is not necessarily how you can or should address another.

Edited June 21, 2010 by skywriter

[norajane]

I am definitely in the "reformed" category. As such I can sincerely say that Not being an OW comes from 2 places: Hindsight or the sense not to do it in the first place. I really dont think it is a good idea for anyone. I will go further and say that 90% of the OW here who think they are comfortable with the circumstances ...are kidding & short changing themselves. I know its tough to hear, I know they dont believe it. But I was that OW who thought : I wasnt the one cheating, I never made promises, its harmless, I dont want the MM to leave, its convenient for me, its just for sex, I'm in control.

 

All justifications for accepting less than other people would. The only thing in your control is you are hurting yourself as opposed to someone else doing it.

 

So, like I said its all hindsight, its 20/20 and it doesnt help anyone else.

 

The OW that come to LS and want to defend their positions...are simply looking for a place to add verbiage to their - for the most part - intangible relationship.

 

I will not dog anyone here for their choices, I am in no position to do that - but if I'm honest , I would ask any OW to look deep and figure out what it is about themselves that makes them feel they should accept less and what about themselves projects to MM that she will?

 

This is exactly what I would address to OW...

 

If you wouldn't accept less from a guy who is single that you were dating, why are you willing to accept less just because it's a married guy you're seeing?

 

If you were in a relationship with a single guy that made you that unhappy, or was that non-committal, or was involved with another woman, or it's just for sex...and you didn't like that and would break up with him, WHY accept it from a MM?

 

Why continue to be miserable and dissatisfied NOW, in the hopes that it MIGHT get better in the future IF he leaves the other woman he is in a marriage relationship with? You wouldn't stay with a single guy in the hopes that he might treat you better some time in the future, so why accept that from a married guy?

 

And why put your life and your happiness in the hands of some guy and his wife? Why give them all the power over your life?

[Hazyhead]

This is exactly what I would address to OW...

 

If you wouldn't accept less from a guy who is single that you were dating, why are you willing to accept less just because it's a married guy you're seeing?

 

If you were in a relationship with a single guy that made you that unhappy, or was that non-committal, or was involved with another woman, or it's just for sex...and you didn't like that and would break up with him, WHY accept it from a MM?

 

Why continue to be miserable and dissatisfied NOW, in the hopes that it MIGHT get better in the future IF he leaves the other woman he is in a marriage relationship with? You wouldn't stay with a single guy in the hopes that he might treat you better some time in the future, so why accept that from a married guy?

 

And why put your life and your happiness in the hands of some guy and his wife? Why give them all the power over your life?

 

Excellent post NJ! It had me smacking my head in a 'Doh!' moment. I think I lost degrees of my self-respect. The same can happen in many relationships where the power is unbalanced for whatever reason. I know many OW (and I was one) think that they are in control, as 2Sure said, but the fact is, they live according, mostly, to another's needs. Sure, some of theirs are met in the process, but far too many are left neglected because in a relationship where one gives all and the other gives some, the power cannot be balanced.

[OWoman]

I was that OW who thought : I wasnt the one cheating, I never made promises, its harmless, I dont want the MM to leave, its convenient for me, its just for sex, I'm in control.

 

All justifications for accepting less than other people would.

 

For some of us, it wasn't "accepting less" - it was demanding, and getting, what we wanted.

 

For some of us, "more" was less - "more" was more demands, more hassle, more expectations and entitlement and inconvenience and smothering; it meant less for us of what really mattered - space, time, control, independence, choice, freedom. The ability to live life on our own terms.

 

Sure, circumstances change, and people change, and what suits me now is not what suited me then - but I would never say any of it was a mistake, or wrong, or damaging to me or that it brought me anything but positive outcomes. I'm a WOW too - wiser for having had the wonderful experience of As, unapologetic for having cocked a snook at somebody else's social norms, and definitely not reformed! I celebrate who I am, and the experiences that contributed to that.

 

Oh - and on the point of "what brings OW here if they're not unhappy" - well, sometimes it's as simple as seeking some input or advice from other OWs, not about how to change your life or "win" your man or pass the sad lonely hours while you wait , but on something more mundane or pragmatic.

[bittersweet memories]

All I can say is that had I found LS sooner, I would have spared myself a lot of agony.

 

Thankfully I came just in time! I am very thankful for the "Reformed" "Former" "Ex" (whatever you want to call them) OW in this sight. Their insight, guidance, input, experience, Tough Love, has helped many of us. If it wasn't for them and LS I would be in the same freakin mess many of the current OW are in now. Coming here was a reality check.. I ran so fast!!

 

I didn't even know an emotional affair even existed till I came here. Yikes! Just being here has been a learning experience! Thank you all!!

[turnstone]

This is really fascinating. Many thanks to those with real insight for posting.

 

To pick up on one point - I understand that women, some women, will 'settle', perhaps out of the arrogant thought that the man will become monogamous with them, perhaps because their self-worth has been undermined by the married man so they no longer believe they are capable of more, if they ever did.

 

I know that these scenarios aren't comprehensive and I know I'm over simplifying them, as far as arrogance goes, there's obviously no point in trying to do anything but be around when the brown stuff hits the fan. But in the the case of low self-esteem it seems that the best thing one could do is encourage self-awareness and be supportive of the person whilst being absolutely unsupportive of the relationship.

 

The other thing that surprises me here is the fact that anyone would want to share their body, nevermind anything else, with a person who has demonstrated that they just can't handle commitment, conflict, rejection, or indeed anything that requires thinking about someone other that themselves to maintain a healthy relationship. How to demonstrate that to someone considering, or actually in an affair with them?