Born again spouse wont attend gay wedding...should I care ?

[twinsmom]

Samantha, you are a wonderful mother. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I too am a Christian, as is my mother, and my dad when he was still alive. I have a brother who is gay. My parents never considered turning their back on him when he revealed it to them. Never! The fact that we embrace our gay loved ones make us no less Christian than any other so-called "Christians", and yeah, I use that term loosely to refer to people who are so small-minded that they believe homosexuality is a SIN. I don't even have harsh enough words for them. Jesus loved all. Not to get into any kind of theological threadjack, but what about Mary Magdalene? I don't believe she had the cleanest of records, but Jesus loved her just the same. And the statement from one poster who said "I raised my sons right". That is the most stupid, narrow-minded post I have EVER seen on this site. Of course, I'm sure that my disdain will not affect her at all. She is a rigid, unbending, ILLITERATE so-called "Christian". I expect that my brother, and your son, will be welcomed into Heaven more readily than someone with that mindset. My post will probably be deleted, but I've said my piece. Peace to you and your son, Samantha.

[allina]

Samantha, you are a wonderful mother. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I too am a Christian, as is my mother, and my dad when he was still alive. I have a brother who is gay. My parents never considered turning their back on him when he revealed it to them. Never! The fact that we embrace our gay loved ones make us no less Christian than any other so-called "Christians", and yeah, I use that term loosely to refer to people who are so small-minded that they believe homosexuality is a SIN. I don't even have harsh enough words for them. Jesus loved all. Not to get into any kind of theological threadjack, but what about Mary Magdalene? I don't believe she had the cleanest of records, but Jesus loved her just the same. And the statement from one poster who said "I raised my sons right". That is the most stupid, narrow-minded post I have EVER seen on this site. Of course, I'm sure that my disdain will not affect her at all. She is a rigid, unbending, ILLITERATE so-called "Christian". I expect that my brother, and your son, will be welcomed into Heaven more readily than someone with that mindset. My post will probably be deleted, but I've said my piece. Peace to you and your son, Samantha.

 

Awwww :love: I have never heard anything like this from a Christian before.

[taiko]

Awwww :love: I have never heard anything like this from a Christian before.

 

Fundamentalist protestants and doctrinaly devout Catholics make the most noise. Or they are most noticed because they are out of step with the political and social norms of the greater western societies. Being out of step they make up the organized opposition to same sex unions among other things maybe internal to any particular church.

[Namul]

Fundamentalist protestants and doctrinaly devout Catholics make the most noise. Or they are most noticed because they are out of step with the political and social norms of the greater western societies. Being out of step they make up the organized opposition to same sex unions among other things maybe internal to any particular church.

 

 

I am pretty sure that I am out of step with the political and social norms of greater western societies as well. I just do not feel it is christ like to point out another persons sins, unless they are asking me too. The only reason I would answer that question for someone was if I felt they were asking because they were unsure of something and sought out my advice. I think a lot of people just feel better about their own sins when they can point to another persons "greater sin"

[kdark]

Awwww :love: I have never heard anything like this from a Christian before.

 

Yeah after reading this entire thread, it was really starting to get to me the way so many christians can be so blasé about denying homosexuals their civil liberties.

 

Thankfully some sound minded christians posted and saved the thread.

[Samantha0905]

Samantha, you are a wonderful mother. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I too am a Christian, as is my mother, and my dad when he was still alive. I have a brother who is gay. My parents never considered turning their back on him when he revealed it to them. Never! The fact that we embrace our gay loved ones make us no less Christian than any other so-called "Christians", and yeah, I use that term loosely to refer to people who are so small-minded that they believe homosexuality is a SIN. I don't even have harsh enough words for them. Jesus loved all. Not to get into any kind of theological threadjack, but what about Mary Magdalene? I don't believe she had the cleanest of records, but Jesus loved her just the same. And the statement from one poster who said "I raised my sons right". That is the most stupid, narrow-minded post I have EVER seen on this site. Of course, I'm sure that my disdain will not affect her at all. She is a rigid, unbending, ILLITERATE so-called "Christian". I expect that my brother, and your son, will be welcomed into Heaven more readily than someone with that mindset. My post will probably be deleted, but I've said my piece. Peace to you and your son, Samantha.

 

Thanks. I'm so happy for anyone who is raised in a truly loving home -- heterosexual or homosexual. I feel blessed to have been raised by my own mother and father. Thank you God they taught me to love others.

 

I really meant what I said. I can never move beyond my own beams, so I don't get how others are so bent on focusing on what they perceive to be other people's "sins" or how they even have the time. I'm sure if they pointed that finger at themselves they'd have plenty to do as far as correction is concerned.

[pureinheart]

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'Anything goes' - doesn't mean there isn't a higher power. I believe we are nearing the end of God's grace..

 

This nation is in trouble in many ways .. i.e. economically, physically, environmentally, militarily..

 

Yep, won't be long and we'll be "caught up"....YEAH!

[califnan]

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'Anything goes' - doesn't mean there isn't a higher power. I believe we are nearing the end of God's grace..

 

This nation is in trouble in many ways .. i.e. economically, physically, environmentally, militarily..

 

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....and first - most importantly: add Spiritually to the listing.

[pureinheart]

Samantha, you are a wonderful mother. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I too am a Christian, as is my mother, and my dad when he was still alive. I have a brother who is gay. My parents never considered turning their back on him when he revealed it to them. Never! The fact that we embrace our gay loved ones make us no less Christian than any other so-called "Christians", and yeah, I use that term loosely to refer to people who are so small-minded that they believe homosexuality is a SIN. I don't even have harsh enough words for them. Jesus loved all. Not to get into any kind of theological threadjack, but what about Mary Magdalene? I don't believe she had the cleanest of records, but Jesus loved her just the same. And the statement from one poster who said "I raised my sons right". That is the most stupid, narrow-minded post I have EVER seen on this site. Of course, I'm sure that my disdain will not affect her at all. She is a rigid, unbending, ILLITERATE so-called "Christian". I expect that my brother, and your son, will be welcomed into Heaven more readily than someone with that mindset. My post will probably be deleted, but I've said my piece. Peace to you and your son, Samantha.

 

In bold, why is it "small minded" to believe homosexuality is a sin...it is sin. It is small minded to not understand what sin actually is.

 

CN raised her sons with the truth, and I really wish I had been raised with the truth (not to put down my mother by any means...I respect her with the utmost of adoration), as it would have saved me much heartache...but that is ok.

 

What Jesus practiced was (and still does), "love the sinner (which is all of us) and hate the sin"...we all fall short to the glory of God. We are instructed to walk in the truth regardless as the lie will bring much heartache.

 

May I ask why many say, "not to threadjack, but...."

[pureinheart]

Just want to add, I was raised with a "watered down truth"...which got me into much trouble of which I have paid a price ever since. I am done paying that price and will do the best I can.

[Samantha0905]

In bold, why is it "small minded" to believe homosexuality is a sin...it is sin. It is small minded to not understand what sin actually is.

 

CN raised her sons with the truth, and I really wish I had been raised with the truth (not to put down my mother by any means...I respect her with the utmost of adoration), as it would have saved me much heartache...but that is ok.

 

What Jesus practiced was (and still does), "love the sinner (which is all of us) and hate the sin"...we all fall short to the glory of God. We are instructed to walk in the truth regardless as the lie will bring much heartache.

 

May I ask why many say, "not to threadjack, but...."

 

I guess the same reason you're not threadjacking........

 

My son was raised with the Truth, which includes Love.

 

Perhaps it's small minded to think everyone should be held forcibly to one truth. This is actually a civil rights argument and to tell homosexuals they can't marry is a violation of their civil rights in America.

[califnan]

 

Perhaps it's small minded to think everyone should be held forcibly to one truth. This is actually a civil rights argument and to tell homosexuals they can't marry is a violation of their civil rights in America.

 

---------------------------

 

Good, then let's just agree that you think if homosexuals can not marry, it is a civil rights argument .. And since you are "prochoice" it would also be considered a civil rights issue, if a woman were not allowed to have her baby killed -if she did not wish to deliver.. And with all Righteousness aside.

[Jack & Coke]

I don't think it makes your wife a bigot at all. She has a difference of opinion on the matter and wasn't brash or rude about it, she just chose to sit it out. I don't necessarily agree with her not going, but I think a lot of people only preach tolerance when it suits them.

[Samantha0905]

---------------------------

 

Good, then let's just agree that you think if homosexuals can not marry, it is a civil rights argument .. And since you are "prochoice" it would also be considered a civil rights issue, if a woman were not allowed to have her baby killed -if she did not wish to deliver.. And with all Righteousness aside.

 

I think if homosexuals are not allow to marry, it is a civil rights violation.

 

I think "choice" has already been decided in Roe v. Wade, so it's a moot point.

[califnan]

I think if homosexuals are not allow to marry, it is a civil rights violation.

 

I think "choice" has already been decided in Roe v. Wade, so it's a moot point.

 

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As I have mentioned before - I believe we are witnessing the ending of God's grace, we as a nation have not turned from our wicked ways..

[fit]

This post addresses several themes I have seen in this thread. Please forgive the length of it.

 

As a christian, it is not my job to judge the people of the earth. I am not the one who decides what is right or wrong in another persons life. I am not worthy of that. No matter how "good" I am, and no matter how well I live my life, I have sinned, and will probably sin again.

 

There are no different sizes of sin. There are no small sins and no big sins. That is a human view of sin, not Gods view. A sin is a sin is a sin.

 

As an analogy, take the FBI. If you have 1 theft, or 100 murders, you will be denied entry into the organization. It doesn't matter what you did before or after the crimes, you committed a crime and are therefore barred from working there.

 

The only way you could work there would be to have the crimes expunged from your record so there was no trace of them. You would have to go to a judge, and even though you had done the crime and were not worthy , he would have to have mercy on you and have it removed from your record.

 

Now lets say there was one judge who was willing to do this for everyone, and every crime. Even if you were unworthy, and did not deserve it. For this judge to be able to hand out pardons to every single person that came up, he had to have lived a crime free life of his own.

 

This is the closest that I can get to an example of how I view Christianity. It falls short, because for it to work, the FBI would need to be a much better workplace than it is, and the judge would have had to die and take all of our crimes on himself because he loved each and every person. All you have to do for this judge to pardon you is to admit you did it, and believe that he will pardon you. He doesn't pardon you because you deserve it. He pardons you because he loves you.

 

Every single person who has ever lived, including your pastor, my pastor, the pope, whatever religious leader you want, has sinned. They are therefore unworthy to judge another sinner. Only god can do that.

 

Now to how this relates to the OP....should a christian attend a gay wedding? Look who Jesus spent his time with...the people who were considered the worst in the world in his day. Prostitutes, tax collectors etc. A healthy person doesn't need a doctor, a sick person does. Unless a particular event will tempt the christian in question to fall into sin, there is every reason for them to go. The christians life itself should be a witness at the wedding through their love, not through their condemnation of another persons sin. When you realize that the sin being committed is no greater than any sin that the christian has committed themselves, you start to see that this whole woop-ti-doo over gay marriage is just posturing by people who are being hypocritical.

 

If a christian's child is gay, should they disown them? Why on earth would they do that? If you believe we are all children of god, and he did not disown us over our sins (which are no greater or less than the sin of any other person) then shouldn't we follow his example and love them regardless of mistakes, choices, sins, whatever in their life?

 

LOVE, not condemnation, is what christianity is about. The mistake churches, and christians have made throughout history, is forgetting this. They have worried more about the sins of others than their own. The have felt superior to others because they were forgiven....even though their forgiveness was not earned by them, but freely given through a loving god.

Wow Namul. This is a very moving post that really touched me. I wish more born again Christians were less judgmental of others and more like this...considerate, loving. The world would truly be a better place if that were the case.

[califnan]

I don't know that Christians are judgemental .. I have never heard a true Christian say that they are a 'good person' who just makes mistakes ..

 

Christians know that they are sinners as well as everyone else in the world.. Continued unrepentant sin is another thing..

 

I have never heard a true Christian say that they are prochoice - or for abortion (baby killing).

 

Do you really think the world would be a better place if Christians didn't hate abortion. There is already a law on the books for abortion - a law that cannot be reversed at this time - and after over three decades..

 

Christians aren't your problem.. Unrepentant sin is the problem - and what is keeping the world from being a "better place"..

[Samantha0905]

I don't know that Christians are judgemental .. I have never heard a true Christian say that they are a 'good person' who just makes mistakes ..

 

Christians know that they are sinners as well as everyone else in the world.. Continued unrepentant sin is another thing..

 

I have never heard a true Christian say that they are prochoice - or for abortion (baby killing).

 

Do you realize how judgmental you sound saying a "true" Christian is not pro choice? You are basically saying you don't think someone can be a true Christian and be pro choice. That IS judgmental and it's not your place. Being pro choice does not mean a person WANTS someone to have an abortion.

 

Do you really think the world would be a better place if Christians didn't hate abortion. There is already a law on the books for abortion - a law that cannot be reversed at this time - and after over three decades..

 

Christians aren't your problem.. Unrepentant sin is the problem - and what is keeping the world from being a "better place"..

 

I don't like abortion. I am pro choice. I am a true Christian.

 

So, are you saying Christians who sin aren't true Christians? I don't think so as that would defeat the purpose of Jesus dying for our sins. Do you think it's a sin to be pro choice? I surely hope that's not what you are saying.

[Namul]

Wow Namul. This is a very moving post that really touched me. I wish more born again Christians were less judgmental of others and more like this...considerate, loving. The world would truly be a better place if that were the case.

 

 

Thanks Fit,

 

I didn't come from the womb full of tolerance and love. I was raised in small town Texas. Calling someone a Queer was "fighting words." I played football, baseball, ran track, joined the miltary, earned two black belts, became a police officer, worked offshore, and all sorts of rough jobs. Once upon a time most of my arguments ended with me punching someones face in. Through all of that, I drank more booze than most 2 men I know, and had more sex than Tiger Woods. When I married, I changed some for the better, but even that I didn't get right. I cheated on my beautiful wife because I was angry with her and frustrated at life itself. We tried to work it out, we talked and talked and talked, we separated, we went to counseling, I let her abuse me emotionally. She hurt me because of what I had done. We piled pain on top of pain until we were both broken people. It wasn't until we let God in that we were able to forgive each other, because how much more has God forgiven us?

 

You have to realize that there is nothing you can do to earn forgiveness. It is something that is given out of love. Now I try to love everyone. Some people are harder than others. I cannot change another person. They can change themselves, or God can change them, but I do not have that power. I will not shove my beliefs down a persons throat. God gave us free will for a reason. I will try to love everyone that I come in to contact with. I have forgiven every single thing that I have held against anyone. If you knew me personally, you would know what a big deal that was for me, because the only cheek I had ever turned in my life was to tell someone to kiss my ass.

 

When I see someone doing something that I think of as sin, I do not get mad, I feel sorry for that person. I pray for that person. I do not tell them that they are sinning....(unless I was offering it as guidance to someone recently saved). God is powerful enough that he will convict a sinners heart when he wants. He did me. He used my self inflicted pains to get through to me. I sought him out. I wasn't evangelized by a person, I ran to God because of my pain.

 

Sure people in sin do not want to believe that they are sinning. I wonder how many people have ever become Christians because someone pointed out their sins? How many people have come to God because a stranger said "your xxxxx is a sin before the eyes of God."

 

Win people with Gods love. Educate them about sin after they have become Christians, and God has worked on their hearts. Is your hatred of their sin because you truly love them and want to see them experience Gods love? Is your hatred of their sin because you perceive theirs as greater than yours and that makes you feel a little bit better about yourself? To this day, homosexuality causes a little nausea in me. I do not like how it seems to be forced down our throats in the main stream media. It is worse if the person in question is a "flaming" homosexual. This is not something about myself that I am proud of. However I feel about it, I will not let that stop me from trying to love everyone that I meet. I will not let my prejudices stop me from loving others. I will not judge, I will not blame, I will not bully, and I will not harm another person. I will love and forgive and try to lift up every single person that I meet.

 

To paraphrase Jesus..........even wicked people love their friends and families, that is easy. You must love everyone.

[fit]

I don't know that Christians are judgmental

Our experience is totally different. I have known many people who claim to be Christian and be some of the most judgmental, closed minded people I have ever seen

 

 

 

Do you really think the world would be a better place if Christians didn't hate abortion.

Yes I think the world would be a better place if Christians or anyone for that matter didnt hate anything. Dont you think the world would be a better place if the "God Hates Fags"(google it) people weren't active participants in it ?

 

 

Christians aren't your problem.. Unrepentant sin is the problem - and what is keeping the world from being a "better place"..

I dont think they are my problem, but some of the close mindedness I see from Christians(and all people) is troubling.

[califnan]

 

Yes I think the world would be a better place if Christians or anyone for that matter didnt hate anything.

 

.

 

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God loves the sinner - but hates sin.

 

People can hate abortion - baby killing is a sin.

 

Failure to speak against sin/evil: complacency is a sin.

[Samantha0905]

To this day, homosexuality causes a little nausea in me. I do not like how it seems to be forced down our throats in the main stream media. It is worse if the person in question is a "flaming" homosexual. This is not something about myself that I am proud of.

 

Good. Don't be proud of that.

 

(And I would have left it at that except I'm being told my message is too short.)

 

I think there is something to be said for succinctness.

[Jack & Coke]

Good. Don't be proud of that.

 

(And I would have left it at that except I'm being told my message is too short.)

 

I think there is something to be said

for succinctness.

 

He shouldn't necessarily be ashamed of it either. You don't have to like something to tolerate and accept it. A person can be all for gays getting married while at the same time repulsed by the sight of two men making out.

[twinsmom]

Just out of curiosity, Jack and Coke, would the sight of two WOMEN making out be equally as repulsive to you, or to to those to whom you are referring? As I said, just curious..

[Jack & Coke]

Just out of curiosity, Jack and Coke, would the sight of two WOMEN making out be equally as repulsive to you, or to to those to whom you are referring? As I said, just curious..

 

I think you missed the point of my statement. I wasn't speaking for myself or him for that matter. I'm just not big on politically correctness and I think a lot of people are quick to call someone intolerant if they disagree. I never said I was repulsed one way or another by man/man or woman/woman kissing. For all you know I could be gay myself or a female. Saying, "Ew two dudes is gross" was the furthest thing from the point I was trying to make.

 

BUT, since I'm not one to duck a question either, no, I'm not a fan of women making out. I have no way of speaking for anybody else and I don't remember specifically referring to anyone, but of course lots of guys get off on girl/girl action so I'm not going to pretend otherwise.