I'm agnostic, but I'm starting to believe in an afterlife

[aerogurl87]

I was raised by my parents who coincidentally are very religious, that when you die that's it, you're just dead. But after I left for college about 2 years ago I started looking into life after death and the possibility of it. That led me to looking up near death experiences as well as ghost stories, etc. The more I read the more I wonder if my parents could've been wrong. I mean, lots of coincidences usually have some form of truth in them I think. My boyfriend believes in heaven and that that's where he's going when he dies. I'm not even sure of that at this point although I've come to the conclusion that soulmates might exist and that maybe when we die our souls are reunited. But yeah, anyone else (agnostics or athiests) wonder if life after death could possibly be true? I know there's no scientific evidence to support it, but that'd be a hard experiment to test especially if the soul is separate from the physical body which is the only thing we are really capable of experimenting with at the moment.

[Malenfant]

there's no way of knowing if we carry on or not.

 

In a way i hope we wont, at least not as disembodied souls with the same feelings and memories that we have in this life.

Carrying around memories for eternity that we'd rather forget doesnt sound too great to me!

 

i'm curious, what religion do your parents belong to? I've never heard of a religious person who believes in god not believing in some kind of afterlife.

Almost seems kind of pointless in a way, as I've always found religion offers comfort to those who have lost loved ones that one day they'll be re-united etc.

If there's no reward or transition after death, then what is the benefit of believing in a god in this life? apart from being a good person I mean. Or is it all about being good and you're rewarded in this life?

i'm genuinely curious about this.

[aerogurl87]

My parents are Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe when you die, that's it until God resurrects you to life on Earth again under the rule of Jesus or to heaven. But until that happens, your nothing.

[TaraMaiden]

I know there's no scientific evidence to support it, but that'd be a hard experiment to test especially if the soul is separate from the physical body which is the only thing we are really capable of experimenting with at the moment.

 

Really.

That's interesting.

 

And how do you do that, exactly?

 

(I don't believe in a soul, by the way, but I'm fascinated to hear why you do.....)

[Woggle]

I sometimes have dreams about people I know that have passed and I don't think they are just dreams.

[TaraMaiden]

Yes, you have had your share of odd dreams...

But I don't think that's what this thread is about.

You really think you're visited by people in your head, but they're not dreams?

 

I'm not really sure what else you could call them, then.

[aerogurl87]

How do you do what exactly? Lol, I'm a little confused by your question Tara Maiden.

 

I didn't believe in a soul till I started hearing all these stories about NDEs and started reading about them. There are some things that just seemed a bit unexplainable and that got me starting to believe we may actually have a soul. I mean I could be wrong, but I hope if we do and there is an afterlife it gives us a chance to purge our minds of the horrors we've lived on Earth and start anew.

[VertexSquared]

Dreams: Confirmation bias

NDE: Neural activity

 

Do you believe your computer has a soul, for instance? If not, why assume humans do?

[Ronni_W]

That is what happened to my stepfather. If his consciousness weren't connected to his brain, why did his consciousness suffer when his brain became damaged?

I read something about that just yesterday, ADF. To the effect of the brain is (or could be, I suppose) like the "processor" of one's consciousness, so, with brain damage, there appears to also be loss of functioning of the consciousness but that's (only) due to the malfunctioning of the brain.

 

In my head, I put it in terms of a mechanical computer and I did kinda go, "Hhmmm...sure. Why not maybe something like that?"

 

Don't remember if it was the same article, but I also came across the question: If you consider yourself to be unconscious when you're sleeping, who or what observes and reports back your dreams to you? (I haven't figured out the answer to that one yet, but it made me think.)

[Green]

Dreams: Confirmation bias

NDE: Neural activity

 

Do you believe your computer has a soul, for instance? If not, why assume humans do?

 

I think if a computer could think and live then yes it would have some kind of soul. I personaly think explaining away my life as chemical reactions to stimuli is an oversimplification... as I do experience consiesness and a feeling that I am actualy here in the moment.

[Shakz]

How do you do what exactly? Lol, I'm a little confused by your question Tara Maiden.

 

I didn't believe in a soul till I started hearing all these stories about NDEs and started reading about them. There are some things that just seemed a bit unexplainable and that got me starting to believe we may actually have a soul. I mean I could be wrong, but I hope if we do and there is an afterlife it gives us a chance to purge our minds of the horrors we've lived on Earth and start anew.

 

AG, isn't it true that JW's don't believe that a person posesses a soul but that they comprise or are a soul? That consciousness and physicality are inextricably linked, and spiritual resurrection cannot obtain without physical resurrection?

[TaraMaiden]

.......especially if the soul is separate from the physical body which is the only thing we are really capable of experimenting with at the moment.

 

And how do you do that, exactly?

 

 

How do you do what exactly? Lol, I'm a little confused by your question Tara Maiden.

 

I'm asking you to clarify your last statement.

How would you experiment with the fact that the soul is separate from the physical body?

I need you to clarify what you mean by that.

How would you do that?

What experiment are you thinking of?

How are you going to test such a theory, exactly?

 

....

I mean I could be wrong, but I hope if we do and there is an afterlife it gives us a chance to purge our minds of the horrors we've lived on Earth and start anew.

heaven is a relatively recent concept in Christianity. Once upon a time, Christians upheld, and were taught about re-birth.

This was eventually quashed by the Ecclesiastical powers-that-were, because otherwise there was no threat or control possible.

If people could not be threatened with eternal damnation, then how could you control their behaviour?

[Feelin Frisky]

Sober reasoning will lead you to the truth.

 

1. Belief in god is a human-centric or ego-centric supposition started by people who had no understanding of the myriad possibilities of the true universe. They assumed them selves the reason for the existence of everything else. In reality we are not the reason for everything else and there is no divine intervention whatsoever in nature.

 

2. If there were a god, wouldn't it require some real trickery to satisfy every dead human's expectations of an afterlife. One may expect dead relatives to be reunited with. But what about those dead relatives expectations. Perhaps you were only a small part of their social picture and they're too busy having their expectations fulfilled by a god who simulates all that these humans expect to see. To me that's like being medicated for eternity by some artificial contraption--something I can't see why any being--god or otherwise would want to saddle themselves with.

 

This life is enough of a privilege if your grateful for it and live it to its fullest. It's natural to die and ignorant to think otherwise. TYVM.

[aerogurl87]

AG, isn't it true that JW's don't believe that a person posesses a soul but that they comprise or are a soul? That consciousness and physicality are inextricably linked, and spiritual resurrection cannot obtain without physical resurrection?

 

Yes that is true, although when you get to the heavenly ressurection things are a bit different as they believe you are not ressurected into a physical body, but a spiritual one. Basically God keeps your memories and everything that makes you tick locked up and puts them into another body. So really it's not you being resurrected in the same body, but your memories are put into a new body, kinda like getting putting your memories on a jump drive and then when your old computer dies on you, you just put them into a new one, if that makes any sense.

[aerogurl87]

I'm asking you to clarify your last statement.

How would you experiment with the fact that the soul is separate from the physical body?

I need you to clarify what you mean by that.

How would you do that?

What experiment are you thinking of?

How are you going to test such a theory, exactly?

 

That's where I get stumped TaraMaiden and hence why I'm still agnostic. I'll admit I don't have the answers and I'm still on the fence about the whole "God" thing in a traditional sense. I believe our planet and everything on it was created, but by who I have no idea. For all I know it could be some advanced civilization that came here and left, and at the moment that's where I'm leaning since I don't believe we are the only planet with life in this universe. But that's for another thread.

 

I don't think it is possible to test the theory of having a soul or not to be honest, especially if it's separate from the body as many claim. I think the only way we will ever know the answer is when we die. Then it'll be either the end or the beginning of a new journey.

[Green]

Ever read the book "lovely bones?" I never saw the movie but the book made me think about the after life. I don't think the book is necesarily right... but it makes you think.

 

Oh and I don't want to give any SPOILERS away but have you seen the lost finale? that make u think too

[aerogurl87]

Lol Green I've never watched Lost, my friend used to watch it all the time and I could never get into it since it made no sense whatsoever to me. But no I've never read that book. Perhaps tomorrow on my day off I'll go swing by the library and pick it up though.

[Green]

Lol Green I've never watched Lost, my friend used to watch it all the time and I could never get into it since it made no sense whatsoever to me. But no I've never read that book. Perhaps tomorrow on my day off I'll go swing by the library and pick it up though.

 

Yeah read that book, it really makes you think. It will capture your attention from the first page.

[Shakz]

Yes that is true, although when you get to the heavenly ressurection things are a bit different as they believe you are not ressurected into a physical body, but a spiritual one. Basically God keeps your memories and everything that makes you tick locked up and puts them into another body. So really it's not you being resurrected in the same body, but your memories are put into a new body, kinda like getting putting your memories on a jump drive and then when your old computer dies on you, you just put them into a new one, if that makes any sense.

 

Sort of a limbo state of non-being until judgement day? I guess that makes sense, as much as any theory of the afterlife anyway. It doesn't really sound all that different than orthodox Christianity, only without the torments of purgatory.

[VertexSquared]

Except everything about is originates in the brain. Memories, consciousness, processing, signal interpretation, personality, etc -- they all occur in a very physical way.

[Green]

Except everything about is originates in the brain. Memories, consciousness, processing, signal interpretation, personality, etc -- they all occur in a very physical way.

 

Why should I take your word on that? Are you even a scientist? Do scientist even know this for a fact?

[VertexSquared]

Why should I take your word on that? Are you even a scientist? Do scientist even know this for a fact?

 

Look these things up for yourself -- scientists know all these things for fact.

[aerogurl87]

Gravity is fact VertexSquared, what occurs in the mind could or could not be fact. There are lots of things scientists still haven't figured out about how our minds work, and I'm sure they're figuring out some stuff they once believed to be true isn't as solid as they once thought also. But that's the beauty of science, it's a never ending journey for knowledge. With that said, yes memories and the such originate in the brain, but where do the memories go when a person dies? Why do some people know things they logically should not know? Explain the phenomena of inexplicable out of body experiences that sometimes occur or encounters with spirits. There's alot of mysteries that science hasn't figured out yet, and that's where the "unknown" factor comes in. I like to think of the after life as being one of those "unknown" factors that science hasn't and may never, figure out.

[VertexSquared]

Gravity is fact VertexSquared, what occurs in the mind could or could not be fact. There are lots of things scientists still haven't figured out about how our minds work, and I'm sure they're figuring out some stuff they once believed to be true isn't as solid as they once thought also. But that's the beauty of science, it's a never ending journey for knowledge. With that said, yes memories and the such originate in the brain, but where do the memories go when a person dies? Why do some people know things they logically should not know? Explain the phenomena of inexplicable out of body experiences that sometimes occur or encounters with spirits. There's alot of mysteries that science hasn't figured out yet, and that's where the "unknown" factor comes in. I like to think of the after life as being one of those "unknown" factors that science hasn't and may never, figure out.

 

Memories don't go anywhere. Memories are just as physical as anything else. That's like asking where the body goes where it dies. The body's still there. The memories are still there. It's like turning a computer off when it's too old and broken-down to function anymore. The data's still in the hard drive, but there's no power coursing through anything anymore.

 

Most of the "out of body personal accounts" or "'logical' deductions" are hallucinations, confirmation bias, and faulty logic to begin with -- or just plain ol' deception.

 

No, science doesn't know everything yet, but that's no reason to discount what we DO know. We DO know a *ton* about the brain -- enough to know that everything about our function is physical. Saying anything to the contrary is wishful thinking, emotional appeal, or simply not being aware of what we know about the brain today.

[VertexSquared]

Yes, there are many aspects to the history of human life that are "unknown"... but the question of afterlife is not one of those unknowns.