What level of emotional investment is healthy for friends versus lovers?

[Morals]

Recently a poster by the name of Carhill made a very acute observation that I believe is the crux behind bad relationships formed from bad friendships.

Woman: I'm good enough for sex but not an emotionally bonded relationship

Man: I'm good enough to share emotions with but not a sexually bonded relationship

 

This started me to thinking. What level of emotional investment is healthy in friendships? As a guy I find myself in the second situation far too often, where I'm good enough to share emotions with but not the physical intimacy.

 

This leads me to the thought of "At what point do you draw a line?" In really good healthy friendships, friends expect you to be there for them emotionally. Granted, the difference between friends of your same sex and friends of the opposite sex will differ greatly, but for the most part let's assume opposite sex friendships for the clarifty of this situation.

 

A really good friend of the opposite sex will be there for you emotionally, just as they will expect you to be there for them. But at what point is it too much? I'm not going to go into the situations where friendships TURN into relationships due to emotions...but simply being strictly friendships.

 

Again I rephase this: At what point of emotional connection do you stop with someone that you are just friends with? It's not an easy question to answer (or apparently pose as a question, looking back).

[brokendream]

If both parties to the friendship are equally there for each other emotionally then I don't think you need to draw a line. What tends to happen is that a female will lean on a male friend and use them as an emotional crutch when they are in need of support....but they don't always offer the same level of support when their male friend is in need.

 

Some women use men in this way....usually if they know the guy has feelings for them. As long as the friendship works both ways then I don't really see a problem. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to lean on one person too much regardless of whether they are in a same sex or opposite sex friendship.

[styla786]

Emotions are the very personal kind of feeling.and i think friends are bear every kind of behave and other things rather than lover so i think emotional investment is healthy with friends rather than lover.

[norajane]

Everyone is responsible for their own emotions. In a man/woman friendship, if you are feeling used or like you are being asked for too much, it's up to you to step back, just like you would in any other friendship.

 

It's best to be very clear with yourself on what you are feeling. I don't think there are problems in man/woman friendships unless one of them has romantic feelings but the other one doesn't. That's when you have to draw a hard and clear line in your head about what's too much, because if you feel romantic about someone, you are likely to end up feeling like you're being taken advantage of. But it's up to you to stop letting it happen.

[Morals]

Everyone is responsible for their own emotions. In a man/woman friendship, if you are feeling used or like you are being asked for too much, it's up to you to step back, just like you would in any other friendship.

 

It's best to be very clear with yourself on what you are feeling. I don't think there are problems in man/woman friendships unless one of them has romantic feelings but the other one doesn't. That's when you have to draw a hard and clear line in your head about what's too much, because if you feel romantic about someone, you are likely to end up feeling like you're being taken advantage of. But it's up to you to stop letting it happen.

 

I understand that. But what I'm talking about is that friendships don't have boundaries.

 

You don't just say "Hey, look, we've known each other for 7 years, and I'd love to help you out here, but our emotional connection is so strong that I feel like this activity may bring us *too* close".

 

My feelings on the matter regarding opposite sex relationships are clear. What I'm trying to understand is that friendships NATURALLY grow stronger over time. The question I'm posing to you all is that, something that naturally strengthens and grows over time, at what point does that emotional line come? Emotions grow between friends, between males it's brotherly love. But between opposing sexes it's something more.

 

I have a great male friend I would do anything for, and our interactions are normal. I also have a great female friend I would do anything for...but our interactions are different then with my male friend. They are similar...yet different. I can't really explain it unless you yourself are in that position.

 

My point is, that emotional connection grows strong and it tends to make me think "Is this a healthy place for me to be emotionally?....To care about someone like this that's a platonic friend?" With male friends the question doesn't come up because of a "hard barrier" (I.e. we are the same sex) but with female friends that barrier is not there. We know inherently that nothing "romantic" could ever be construed of the actions between me and my buddies. But the same could not be said of the actions between me and my female friend.

 

That is why I pose the question about the undefinable area where emotions aren't kept in check. Maybe it's just me...

[WTRanger]

I understand that. But what I'm talking about is that friendships don't have boundaries.

 

You don't just say "Hey, look, we've known each other for 7 years, and I'd love to help you out here, but our emotional connection is so strong that I feel like this activity may bring us *too* close".

 

 

Actually, yes, sometimes you do have to say that. Especially when it's an opposite sex friendship and they are leaning on your for support in a manner that is blurring the lines between what friends really do. Ultimately you need to look out for yourself and put our sanity first. You can't compromise yourself for someone else. There's no medals here for jumping on grenades. If you know that by being there for this friend that it will ultimately complicate things emotionally, then it is up to you to remove yourself from that situation. If you don't you aren't helping that friend. You are just adding more onto the situation.

 

If the friendship doesn't have boundaries, is it really a friendship? Every friend I have, be it male or female, I know boundaries for. None are the same, but they all have them.

 

Everything in your post is up to you and you alone. You define what you want, you remove yourself when those definitions aren't met or at least compromised to in a healthy way. This is all about personal responsibility. You need to control your own actions and emotions as you are the one responsible for them.

 

If an area is undefined to you, then you and your friend must define it through clear and direct communication. Plain and simple.

[norajane]

That is why I pose the question about the undefinable area where emotions aren't kept in check. Maybe it's just me...

 

That's just it. It is YOU. Or rather, only YOU know when it's too close for you. If you're wondering if it's too close, it probably is, because you're reaching that line...and if you cross it...you'll be pining for a friend. You'll know because you start thinking a bit more often about him, feeling a bit more excited to see him. It may never happen that you cross that line, but really, if you're wondering, something is making you uneasy and it's because you're getting very close to that emotional line.

[Morals]

If the friendship doesn't have boundaries, is it really a friendship?

 

Is this necessarily a bad thing? I realize that I do define the boundaries of emotional connection between friends.

 

I'll be honest here. Part of the reason, with women at least, that I don't keep emotional boundaries up with women is because I'm looking for someone that clicks with me. I'm single and looking for someone that just feels natural to be there.

 

Granted I could get hurt in the process, but I also feel that for acting like this, being open emotionally, I could find people through the process of friendships and see where it goes from there.

 

My confusion comes from where to draw the line, as I'm an only child I have never had sisters/brothers. So when it comes to women, I'm unsure of where to draw the line emotionally. Partially my fault, but partially also a product of the world today. The world today puts little emphasis on true emotional connectivity with people, even friends. Because of the way I was raised I find myself going against the tide (of conformance) and opening myself up to people readily and freely.

 

Yes I've gotten hurt that way, but I've found a few gems out there. And when that true emotional connectivity is reciprocated, it's quite refreshing. But my emotions become confused when that emotional reciprocation comes from a friend of the opposing sex because I'm unsure of if this is just another unique individual who shares my view of emotional connection, or if it could be something more then a friend.

 

The reason behind that is because guys here are berated for thinking that friendships could become more, but in life you can't put emotional boundaries on true friendships otherwise you could miss out on some great relationships.

 

That's how I view it at least. I just want to keep myself from getting hurt, and I figured someone here might have some experience with this.

[WTRanger]

I just want to keep myself from getting hurt, and I figured someone here might have some experience with this.

 

The only way to achieve this is to move to the hills and stop all forms of human contact. I hope there are no LS'ers like that, but who knows?

 

Any connection with another human bears some risk of getting hurt. But that small risk is outweighed by the immense chance of great times and greater feelings.

 

In any friendship, no boundaries are a bad thing. This leads men to becoming emotional tampons for female friends. This leads females to becoming nothing but free-hookers for the guy friends. In same sex friendships, it's general mooching. Would you let a friend come over to your place at any time, not pay any money, eat all your food, poop in the living room, etc?

 

Granted you can't walk around with a rule book and give infractions to your friends when boundaries are crossed, but you need to know how to set them and how to communicate to people when they are crossed.

 

It sounds to be like you are getting girlfriend and girl friend confused. There's a HUGE difference between the two.

[Morals]

The only way to achieve this is to move to the hills and stop all forms of human contact. I hope there are no LS'ers like that, but who knows?

 

Any connection with another human bears some risk of getting hurt. But that small risk is outweighed by the immense chance of great times and greater feelings.

 

In any friendship, no boundaries are a bad thing. This leads men to becoming emotional tampons for female friends. This leads females to becoming nothing but free-hookers for the guy friends. In same sex friendships, it's general mooching. Would you let a friend come over to your place at any time, not pay any money, eat all your food, poop in the living room, etc?

 

Granted you can't walk around with a rule book and give infractions to your friends when boundaries are crossed, but you need to know how to set them and how to communicate to people when they are crossed.

 

It sounds to be like you are getting girlfriend and girl friend confused. There's a HUGE difference between the two.

 

I think you are mistaking my situation. The thing is THERE is no "mooching" or equivalent going on. It's completely reciprocated. We both think about going to events and end up buying dinner or movies, or opera tickets, or whatever. And they are situations where one time I'll buy dinner, and she'll buy the tickets. I'll grab it next time sometimes, or sometimes she'll grab it. We tease each other about who will pay each time. Kind of a contest

 

As for the whole "emotional tampon"thing. We don't really talk about emotional issues with each other, we just try to have fun whenever we hang out. Living in the present so to speak. And we aren't physically intimate. So that covers that....

 

It's a great friendship, my concern is that the emotional boundaries , or lack thereof, might prove to be a burden down the road because it's such a great friendship.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Morals

[WTRanger]

I think you are mistaking my situation. The thing is THERE is no "mooching" or equivalent going on. It's completely reciprocated. We both think about going to events and end up buying dinner or movies, or opera tickets, or whatever. And they are situations where one time I'll buy dinner, and she'll buy the tickets. I'll grab it next time sometimes, or sometimes she'll grab it. We tease each other about who will pay each time. Kind of a contest

 

As for the whole "emotional tampon"thing. We don't really talk about emotional issues with each other, we just try to have fun whenever we hang out. Living in the present so to speak. And we aren't physically intimate. So that covers that....

 

It's a great friendship, my concern is that the emotional boundaries , or lack thereof, might prove to be a burden down the road because it's such a great friendship.

 

So in a nutshell you are basically doing everything a couple would do, yet you are not a couple. You are taking on the role of a boyfriend, yet you're not her boyfriend. She's taking on the role of your girlfriend, yet she's not your girlfriend. It sounds like a great friendship, if you were a female or she was a male.

 

Honestly, do you want to push things further with her? The "almost" relationship is exactly where boundaries need to be established. In fact, you are mooching off of her and she off of you. You both are getting an almost relationship, without putting any risk or effort into it. You are just happy in your nice safe almost place in life.

 

No one but you can tell you where you want this to go. So what is it? Friends or more? It's A or B, black and white. Make a choice already.

[norajane]

It's a great friendship, my concern is that the emotional boundaries , or lack thereof, might prove to be a burden down the road because it's such a great friendship.

How would you feel if she stopped doing most of those things with you, or stopped doing them nearly as often, because she was dating and falling in love with someone else?

 

If you are cool with that, then you are not in dangerous territory. If that thought makes your heart sink, you are already in too far.

 

That's the litmus test. Can you handle her falling in love with someone who isn't you, and that changing the nature of the great friendship? That's when and where you have to draw the line - if you aren't prepared to date her yourself, and you want to maintain the friendship, can you handle it if she's with another man?

[Morals]

How would you feel if she stopped doing most of those things with you, or stopped doing them nearly as often, because she was dating and falling in love with someone else?

 

If you are cool with that, then you are not in dangerous territory. If that thought makes your heart sink, you are already in too far.

 

That's the litmus test. Can you handle her falling in love with someone who isn't you, and that changing the nature of the great friendship? That's when and where you have to draw the line - if you aren't prepared to date her yourself, and you want to maintain the friendship, can you handle it if she's with another man?

 

If she were to drastically change her behavior based on just meeting another guy I would wonder if she was truly a friend. Don't real friends continue to do what they have always done through friendships?

[norajane]

If she were to drastically change her behavior based on just meeting another guy I would wonder if she was truly a friend. Don't real friends continue to do what they have always done through friendships?

 

The changes are not instant. They continue to see their friends, but certainly not as often. They gradually begin to spend more and more time with the person they fall in love with. When the relationship becomes serious, they don't have much time left for all their friends.

 

And it often stops being one on one - they bring their bf with them, or invite you out with them or to their place for dinner or parties.

 

So, yeah, you get less and less of their personal time, except for the occasional outing. As their relationship with their partner deepens, their friendships remain, but they do change and time together is the biggest change.

[WTRanger]

If she were to drastically change her behavior based on just meeting another guy I would wonder if she was truly a friend. Don't real friends continue to do what they have always done through friendships?

 

To some extent, but you have to understand that the boyfriend is now an important male part of her life and she'll want to spend a ton of time with him and if you want to see her I can guarantee you he'll be in tow. You can't expect her to keep up the level of things one on one with you and you as a friend need to understand that her priorities have shifted. This is especially true in the early months of the relationship when all you want to do is be with that other person. As things progress, you'll see them start to come back around and spend time with other people but you'll always be that 3rd wheel if you are still single.

 

If you can't take that, then as Norajane said, you are not in this for just a friendship.

 

So what is it? Can you take that or not? Where you do want things to go with this girl? What are your expectations?

[Morals]

I'm not sure. I've taken a few days to think about the situation and the best answer I can come up with is this.

 

I want her to be happy, even if that's with someone else...BUT...I would like just a chance to see if I could be that person to make her happy.

 

I don't know if she is still seeing someone at the moment, last I know she was having communication issues with the fellow.

 

My expectations, I don't know. Regarding recent events that have happened to me, taking into perspective the behaviors of people I know, I just don't know anymore. I'm creating a new thread to talk about one of the behaviors I observed. (That doesn't mean I won't talk here, just don't want to get this thread sidetracked).