Seven times a charm?

[Fieldsofgold]

Sounds like a pretty messed up situation.

 

It occurred to me, you may be misjudging/making excuses for her roller-coaster emotions and poor behavior with you. She could have a personality/mental disorder, and that's just the way she is. When I read your description of her behavior, that was the very first thing that popped into my head. She may very well just be this way, whether she's in an affair or not.

 

There is a saying, "if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got." As SillyGirl so astutely pointed out, when you are 45, 55, or 85, is that what you'd want in your life?

 

You've been in this dysfunctional relationship with her for so long, I think some of the tolerating it is "habit." This is what you are used to. That's not a healthy place for you.

 

Maybe individual counseling would help you sort things out, see and accept the reality of the situation better? Maybe sorting out what you really want for your life would help.

 

Maybe you could just tell her to contact you if she ever divorces, and not until.

[wheelwright]

The one question I have never been able to answer is - is she "calling the shots" according to her sexual needs and guilt balance ie having her cake and eating it...or is she simply suffering a mountain of turmoil herself and doing the best she can given the insanity of the situation.

 

Its so easy to paint her as the evil bitch (especially if I want to fall out of love with her) but the reality is I'm sure if she came on LS and wrote her story people would probably sympathise and say she's doing the best that she can to juggle the turmoil and keep a person she loves in her life (me) however she can given the constraints of reality.

 

And no, my needs aren't currently being met...but then I believe deep down if she could she would. And I can't hate someone for feeling guilty about having an affair / cheating on her husband who's a good man can I?

 

Or am I just being an apologist? Don't get me wrong it doesn't change my wanting to leave the situation...but it does make it harder to fall out of love with her.

 

Bolded part - I think we can go round in circles trying to resolve this kind of thing. The reason being that on some level both scenarios are true. I found it a lot easier to cope with things in my situation once I realised these seemingly conflicting versions could both be true at the same time.

 

I'm sorry that I phrased things as I did in my response, because I don't mean to paint her black either, more that her behaviour in this situation is cruel to you (perhaps without intent, but certainly without due respect).

 

I don't think you should be trying to hate her. Any effort in that direction will just make you ping-pong anyway (IME).

 

I also reflected and thought that it's wrong to try to fall out of love. Won't work.

 

But I still think you could waste a lot of your own precious time and energy focused on the 25%, when you need to see the 75% for what it is.

 

I don't think this kind of love dies anyway, but it doesn't matter if she's doing the best for herself or not. The process is damaging and disrespectful to you. That doesn't mean you should hate her, but it will help to make it easier to stop giving your feelings for her priority.

 

It's not her or your shared feelings you need to think about, but instead the situation as a whole. Not 'do I want her in my life? can I resist that if offered?' but 'do I want to be in this situation?' Context is important.

 

When in my EMA I was told by a close friend that everything I said centred on how HE was feeling, HIS motivations, HIS needs, what HE was going to do. It was true. I recognised that I needed to put myself (and my kids) back in the centre of the picture, but I found it hard. It took a long time, and part of it was seeing how the bigger picture was so detrimental to me, despite the wonderful passion & intimacy we had shared.

 

I wonder if this is the same for you?

[cavedweller]

nick,

 

She does not know what she wants..She is a spider and you are caught in her web..Tell her not to contact you unless she files for a divorce...If you tell her that you will never hear from her again..(she will stay with her husband and move on)

[2sure]

Then came 8 years of the following:

1 - We start a full on intense meeting for sex regularly affair.

2 - She starts to feel guilty (usually after 3 months)

3 - She starts to get angry with me...pick and find fault with me.

4 - She breaks up with me - (anything between 3 months and 2 years)

5 - She comes back....go back to step 1.

 

This is the same cycle she has with her husband , with the exception that during step one it is the marriage that goes through a "good" period.

She rotates you both through the cycle. When she wants to see you but feels guilty about her H , she finds fault with him and the marriage (they dont connect) and thats how she justifies seeing you.

 

She takes no responsibility. When she feels guilt coming on she changes it to finding fault with someone else. This is just the way she is.

[MorningCoffee]

Hi Nick,

 

It's not about whether you love her or not, it's not about whether you're attacted to each other or not .... it's about whether she is able to meet your needs.

 

You sound like you have grown tired of the merry-go-round and believe that Nick deserves something better .... not someone better .. but something better ... where she is there for you all the time, where there is no guilt, no back and forth etc etc

 

That's an OK thing to want .. in fact it's entirely normal.

 

The issue here is she is not able to give that to you - not unless she divorces - and it doesn't sound like she is seriously considering it.

 

She's stating her needs loud and clear .. you on her terms.

 

Your needs seem different .. so the question is are you going to put your needs first or hers.

 

She has every "right" to tell you what her "conditions" are .. but then again YOU have every right to say that they do not meet up with your needs.

 

And THEN you have the right to just walk away.

 

I walked away from my xMW over 9 months ago, FOR GOOD, after around 13 years of a similar merry go round.

 

I'd done it before but this time I meant it. There were many final straws but one particular one was her willingness to stay with her H if she didn't think I was going to give her what she wanted. For an odd reason, the main thing that hit me about this was that she was willing to use him as a fall-back ... which I found revolting.

 

I got myself into counselling to look at why I'd let this go on so long, I kept myself busy and all the other zillion of things people do.

 

Right now I really am indifferent to her .. I really am. She holds no "power" over me any more ... and never will again.

 

I no longer see her in a rosy light .. I see her as a human being .... and, perhaps more importantly, I see me as a human being too.

 

 

She has tried to contact a number of times and maintaining NC has not really been a problem. I worked out my own needs and one was that I didn't want to be in a R with a married woman ..... she falls in that category so no matter what our past she no longer makes the cut in terms of my new "me focused" needs.

 

I've not particularly dated in 9 months as (selfishly) I felt deserved time to focus on me.

 

The key really is in deciding yourself that they are not able to meet your needs ... after that just stick to putting your needs first.

 

My xMW is always free to divorce, live by herself a bit and reflect/come to peace with the demise of her marriage ... and then see if I am free/am interested in seeing her.

 

If you go NC you will end up being angry with her .. once the rose tint dissapears and you realise that behind every "I love you" she muttered there was no serious intent to be with you ... when that hits you then boy is that a reality check on it.

 

The anger goes though ...

 

Right now, I don't care if she stays married not .. but what I would hope is that she chooses to reflect on what happened and decide that she doesn't want to be a person who lies and deceives.

 

If I found out on my death bed that (married or not) she'd decided to focus on helping others, being a better person and supporting and helping those less fortunate then I'd honestly be pleased for her.

 

It's her life though, and she needs to find her own peace in it.

 

Likewise do I.

 

be safe

Chris

 

Excellent post, as usual, Chris.

 

OP, study this post -- it is your concise roadmap off the roller coaster and back to sanity. (I am currently working my way along it as well.)

[U2RockZz]

"Regrets are a waste of time..."

 

this is some serious BS, you haven't wasted any time, you had your GFs

and you used them to your advantage....just like her....her H is the one who wasted/ing the time on a looser....you haven't wasted any

"the reality is I'm sure if she came on LS and wrote her story people would probably sympathise and say she's doing the best that she can to juggle the turmoil and keep a person she loves in her life (me) however she can given the constraints of reality."

 

 

neither she nor you deserve any sympathies....don't make yourself look like a victim cuz you are not.....her H and the kid(if it's belongs him) are the real victims

[nick.johnstone]

Oh I don't in any way think of myself as a "victim" - I'm a grown man with an inherent sense of morality which I have chosen to repeatedly ignore because I believed in a future with a woman who said she loved me and wanted to be with me. Her husband is the only real loser in this and I have always felt bad about what we were doing to him....selfish yes but who in this world can claim never to have been selfish or hurt someone for their own personal gain?

 

Anyway...

 

I would like to thank all of you - especially Silly Girl, Wheelwright, Silverplanets (Chris), 2Sure, Morning Coffee and even you U2Rockzz for all your advice and comments. I have a better insight into her, me and our situation. Two things which really hit me:

 

Then came 8 years of the following:

1 - We start a full on intense meeting for sex regularly affair.

2 - She starts to feel guilty (usually after 3 months)

3 - She starts to get angry with me...pick and find fault with me.

4 - She breaks up with me - (anything between 3 months and 2 years)

5 - She comes back....go back to step 1.

 

This is the same cycle she has with her husband , with the exception that during step one it is the marriage that goes through a "good" period.

She rotates you both through the cycle. When she wants to see you but feels guilty about her H , she finds fault with him and the marriage (they dont connect) and thats how she justifies seeing you.

 

She takes no responsibility. When she feels guilt coming on she changes it to finding fault with someone else. This is just the way she is.

 

and

 

 

It's not about whether you love her or not, it's not about whether you're attacted to each other or not .... it's about whether she is able to meet your needs.

 

....

 

She has every "right" to tell you what her "conditions" are .. but then again YOU have every right to say that they do not meet up with your needs.

...

 

The key really is in deciding yourself that they are not able to meet your needs ... after that just stick to putting your needs first.

 

Something hit me today - whenever we were in the throws of the affair (step 1) she would start complaining about her husband - picking...finding faults in everything that he did. I would even defend him if I thought she was being unreasonable! Then once she felt guilty and started to drift (steps 2 and 3) her husband suddenly became a saint and everything I said or did annoyed her. I once pointed this out to her but it only annoyed her more!

 

So you put those two quotes together and its evident that nothing will ever change. She'll always put her needs first and switch between her husband and me...and never really take either of our needs into account.

 

And I know this...and I am angry with her...and I know NC is the only option...and I know I need to get on with my life so I'm not wasting my time with her. What I don't get is why with knowing all this I have to stop myself messaging her and breaking NC / getting annoyed that she hasn't messaged me. One day at a time I guess.

 

We're currently on a break ie I just asked for some space after our last argument rather than a defined break-up with NC. Do you think I should contact her to break up ask for NC or just ignore her and hope she takes the hint? (or just email her this thread!) Obviously want to be as mature about things as possible - regardless of the insanity she does mean a lot to me and I want to sever ties in the most amicable way possible....

[U2RockZz]

"who in this world can claim never to have been selfish or hurt someone for their own personal gain?"

 

ya, i know you will come up with some self serving s***....being selfish is way different from intentionally hurting somebody....that speaks loads about your values

 

you want to end this A reminds me of my friend who quits smoking every day before going to sleep.....send this thread to her H...that would surely breaks your 8yrs research work

Edited June 29, 2010 by U2RockZz

[wheelwright]

Something hit me today - whenever we were in the throws of the affair (step 1) she would start complaining about her husband - picking...finding faults in everything that he did. I would even defend him if I thought she was being unreasonable! Then once she felt guilty and started to drift (steps 2 and 3) her husband suddenly became a saint and everything I said or did annoyed her. I once pointed this out to her but it only annoyed her more!

 

So you put those two quotes together and its evident that nothing will ever change. She'll always put her needs first and switch between her husband and me...and never really take either of our needs into account.

 

And I know this...and I am angry with her...and I know NC is the only option...and I know I need to get on with my life so I'm not wasting my time with her. What I don't get is why with knowing all this I have to stop myself messaging her and breaking NC / getting annoyed that she hasn't messaged me. One day at a time I guess.

 

We're currently on a break ie I just asked for some space after our last argument rather than a defined break-up with NC. Do you think I should contact her to break up ask for NC or just ignore her and hope she takes the hint? (or just email her this thread!) Obviously want to be as mature about things as possible - regardless of the insanity she does mean a lot to me and I want to sever ties in the most amicable way possible....

 

I think email the thread. You're spending a lot of time thinking about what she is dealing with. Perhaps it would help her see what you are dealing with. If she is angry rather than compassionate after that, well...

 

If she's complaining either about you or H, then that speaks of issues she has which she is not facing. Perhaps about seeing she needs to let go of one of you. In my EMA there was no bad-mouthing of BSs. I understand why you stuck up for her H. I did my xMOM's BS at times, if he felt he didn't know how to make her happy for example.

 

You are trying to be fair to her. But you need also to be fair to yourself.

Edited June 29, 2010 by wheelwright
adding something

[Owl]

Just a suggestion...you say that she's always the one to break NC.

 

How? Text? Facebook?

 

The trick here to make things stick is two fold...first, you need to take active measures to PREVENT resumed contact. Change your phone #s/email addresses/etc... Block her numbers.

 

You get the picture. Instead of passively accepting her not contacting her...actively prevent it from happening.

 

Second is to end things on a note she can't misunderstand. "This is it. We're done. Do not contact me again. I want you to understand that if you do so...for any reason...I'm going to go to your husband and request his assistance in enforcing NC between us...and that would mean disclosing the affair."

 

Harsh? Yep. Effective? You betcha.

 

Take charge, man.

[nick.johnstone]

Just spent the last 3 hours talking to Sarah on IM this evening. She was obviously still angry from our last argument as she asked "under what context I was speaking to her". I tried to defuse the situation by being pleasant but she was obviously in an argumentative mood. I told her I didn't want to argue anymore - that we need to find a way to meet both our needs or end things forever - she replied instantaneously that she'd rather end things forever than try to find a compromise. She said what we do disgusts her. I said we've done this so many times before and she always comes back...but I wouldn't take her back this time, that she shouldn't make a rash decision as forever is a long time....that 12 years friendship / 8 years of relationship is worth more and isn't disposable. She said she didn't care. We said goodbye. Contacts deleted on IM.

 

Strangely I don't feel devastated. Upset yes. Disappointed that she took less time to end "us" than she takes to choose a sandwich at lunch. But not devastated.

 

I'm not worried about myself breaking NC but I am honestly terrified however that she'll come back and history repeating itself.

 

I'd just like to thank you all for you help and advice these last few days. Good luck with your own "Sarah's". Take care.

[White Flower]

Just spent the last 3 hours talking to Sarah on IM this evening. She was obviously still angry from our last argument as she asked "under what context I was speaking to her". I tried to defuse the situation by being pleasant but she was obviously in an argumentative mood. I told her I didn't want to argue anymore - that we need to find a way to meet both our needs or end things forever - she replied instantaneously that she'd rather end things forever than try to find a compromise. She said what we do disgusts her. I said we've done this so many times before and she always comes back...but I wouldn't take her back this time, that she shouldn't make a rash decision as forever is a long time....that 12 years friendship / 8 years of relationship is worth more and isn't disposable. She said she didn't care. We said goodbye. Contacts deleted on IM.

 

Strangely I don't feel devastated. Upset yes. Disappointed that she took less time to end "us" than she takes to choose a sandwich at lunch. But not devastated.

 

I'm not worried about myself breaking NC but I am honestly terrified however that she'll come back and history repeating itself.

 

I'd just like to thank you all for you help and advice these last few days. Good luck with your own "Sarah's". Take care.

Sorry I came in late Nick. It's been an hour since you posted this and I hope you're feeling all right.

 

What are your plans should she decide to break NC? How will you prepare youself? Are you going to start actively dating?

[silverfish]

The way she ended it tells you a lot about her...she sounds emotionally immature, and it sounds as if you have outgrown her.

[nick.johnstone]

Hey Whiteflower - I'm okay I suppose; just working through the now familiar 5 stages of grief!

 

"Denial" lasted about an hour. Somewhere between "Anger" and "Bargaining" - Anger at her for treating me as if I'm disposable; at myself for letting her do this to me again. Wanting to send the "pictures" I have of her to her husband and ruin her life. I won't though - far too nice to seek revenge (though I'm sure U2Rockzz would approve). In fact I should delete them all so I don't look at them and "reminisce" (I mean that literally rather than as a euphemism for anything else!).

 

"Bargaining" - trying to think of ways to fix the situation, wanting to contact her tomorrow, arrange a lunch, wondering if I can persuade her to stay. Best to delete her number from my phone, email address from my address book (though I know both off by heart) just in case.

 

That will then lead to "Depression" which I admit I'm not looking forward to - I have a self destructive streak (as you can obviously see for having done this for the last 8 years!) which means I'm prone to wallow but if I just keep myself distracted and social I should be fine. This is always my most vulnerable point - if she comes back at this stage I know I'll find it hard to say no to her.

 

But if I can get to "acceptance" then hopefully I should be in a position to ignore her if she returns. As for dating? Its not on the top of my list...but if you're offering sure!

 

Hey Silverfish - I'd say a cocktail of emotional immaturity and selfishness. And yes, I think I've outgrown both the situation and perhaps even her. Hard to tell as I'm still torn between "anger" and "bargaining"! One day at a time I guess...

[wheelwright]

I'm sorry for this outcome. I'm sure it must be hard. The time it takes when it seems we reach a decision only speaks of much previous reflection in this case. It just feels sudden - and perhaps you didn't feel totally filled in during the process. Not that fair, but part of how it works.

 

Good luck. ((you))

[nick.johnstone]

I'm sure you're right. Regardless of what I may say about her tonight I know she has tried this year to manage her turmoil and lead a double life. Perhaps some people just aren't capable of living "two marriages" concurrently...thats not something I can be angry about. I asked her to make a choice...she made it and it wasn't me. Nothing else to say I suppose. Just need to stop myself analysing the past to see if I could have done anything differently / why I didn't see this coming...ah the grieving process begins!

[Chrome Barracuda]

...It was never gonna be you! she's already married!!! what dont you understand about that?

 

...why are you wasting your time?

[nick.johnstone]

Having a husband never stopped her having an on/off relationship with me over the last 8 years nor did I stop her at various points throughout talking about how she'd like to leave her husband to be with me. I suppose I'm an optimist who believed it might happen one day.

 

And no longer wasting my time...having talked through the entire situation on here I have no inclination of being in an affair situation with her any more. Doesn't mean I'm over her as a person but I just can't see making this mistake for the 7th time.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Yeah but having a husband, didnt stop you either. now did it?

 

She was selfish, imatture and a damn cake eater!!!

 

You knew full and well deep inside it was never gonna happen!

 

It took you how long to realize it was never gonna happen? it was a pipe dream.

 

C'mon you wasted all that time for nothing. Find a SINGLE woman to deal with, now that your off the hook with this chick.

[Confused4Now]

Yeah but having a husband, didnt stop you either. now did it?

 

She was selfish, imatture and a damn cake eater!!!

 

You knew full and well deep inside it was never gonna happen!

 

It took you how long to realize it was never gonna happen? it was a pipe dream.

 

C'mon you wasted all that time for nothing. Find a SINGLE woman to deal with, now that your off the hook with this chick.

Amen to this....how many years? OMG you must be a young guy cause at 52 I wasn't going to waste my life for a married woman...I did for 4 1/2 years cause I was exiting a marriage myself. Please do yourself a favor...delete everything, pictures , cards, anything that reminds you of her. This is a dead end for you...game over.

 

So sad....

[silverplanets]

Just spent the last 3 hours talking to Sarah on IM this evening. She was obviously still angry from our last argument as she asked "under what context I was speaking to her". I tried to defuse the situation by being pleasant but she was obviously in an argumentative mood. I told her I didn't want to argue anymore - that we need to find a way to meet both our needs or end things forever - she replied instantaneously that she'd rather end things forever than try to find a compromise. She said what we do disgusts her. I said we've done this so many times before and she always comes back...but I wouldn't take her back this time, that she shouldn't make a rash decision as forever is a long time....that 12 years friendship / 8 years of relationship is worth more and isn't disposable. She said she didn't care. We said goodbye. Contacts deleted on IM.

 

Strangely I don't feel devastated. Upset yes. Disappointed that she took less time to end "us" than she takes to choose a sandwich at lunch. But not devastated.

 

I'm not worried about myself breaking NC but I am honestly terrified however that she'll come back and history repeating itself.

 

I'd just like to thank you all for you help and advice these last few days. Good luck with your own "Sarah's". Take care.

 

Been there, done that, know the pain of realising that once you do put your needs out there everything changes.

 

It's a bitter pill to swallow.

 

Be aware that she's happy to end "you" now because in her cycle she will be feeling strong .. if she's been with you recently then she's satisfied that "urge" for attention from you and she's got what she needs right now.

 

So her energy is up and into the bargain she you have made her decision for her so she hasn't had to face up to anything. She still has her support/security etc from her marriage .. and so she feels pretty good right now.

 

Guaranteed there will come a time shortly or a bit longer when the energy she's taken from you in the last round runs out and her marriage is still just the same old thing it has always been ... and then she's going to start looking to get that energy boost from somewhere.

 

You're going to be an easy target for her to try and get it from and so, when she wants it from you, she will be in contact ... even just to see if you miss her (as that will make her feel better about herself) ...

 

What she's never going to realise is that it's not her H, it's not you and it's not the m and it's not anything else ... it's her ... and unless she can look inside and come to peace with herself then she will always be looking for additional energy from other people.

 

"Fixed" people don't need other people's energy .. they generate their own.

 

be safe

Chris

 

ps: for me the 5 stages played out on a number of differnet levels with different cycle times ... eg there was a short cycle denial., anger etc going on ... but underneat there was a bigger cycle one going on ... so that 2-3 months afterwards I was very deeply angry again ...

 

Lately I have been been aware of another cycle .... with some more anger coming out ....

 

Each time though, it is coming from somewhere deeper and the healing after it is gone is correspondingly deeper.

 

It's been over 9 months now and looking back I would say I've only really been "whole" this last few months ... and I am aware that in a years time I might look back at today and realise I still had a little more healing to do.

 

The way I see it , the more time I give to myself the stonger and more "fixed" I get ...

 

:)

[Fieldsofgold]

This woman has a personality disorder/emotional problem. She will "cycle through" regardless of the relationship she is, or is not, in. If she chose you, nothing would change, except the excuses for her behavior. If she had married you first, nothing would be different, except the excuses for her behavior. Your life would be a constant emotional roller coaster. I know of what I speak. I have had someone very close, all my life, who is just like her.

[nick.johnstone]

Hey Chris - healing is a continuous process so i think your still getting angry is healthy as it demonstrates you're addressing the issues...even those buried deep down inside you. I guess the old adage of 'if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger is true'.

 

Must say I'm relieved now that she's gone - as if a major weight has been lifted off my shoulders....and its so nice not to be arguing. I honestly have had no desire to contact her and even went on an enjoyable date with a (single!) ex yesterday.

 

But I'm still angry - especially because how we ended ie my putting my needs out and her displaying her true colours, a quick goodbye and contacts deleted - almost as if she got away without being told what a bitch she has been.

 

So I messaged her this morning - a concise message telling her "this is the last message you'll get from me but I couldn't go without saying I'm glad we're over because I see you for the emotionally immature and selfish person that you are. That no matter what you say or do I'll never allow you to use me again."

 

She sent me an IM request immediately (she doesn't like sending text messages as they show up on her bill). I ignored it. She sent me a message saying she wanted to talk. I ignored her. She sent me another message saying she wanted to "compromise". I have to admit I was intrigued at what that meant so I accepted her IM request.

 

I asked her "what do you mean by compromise....there really is no compromise anymore"

 

She then replied saying "she doesn't recognise me and how dare I call her emotionally immature and selfish...and even if she is who cares. That even if I send her messages like I did every morning she'll never come back. and that she hates me".

 

I replied saying "I don't care if you hate me. The message I sent wasnt a ploy to get you back; I simply couldn't go without telling you what I thought of you. This madness has gone on enough - goodbye." I deleted her off IM.

 

 

Have to admit I'm feeling less angry having told her what I think of her. But it frustrates me that she doesn't realise how insane she is. And it makes me angry to realise she is selfish...angry at myself for wasting so much time with someone so selfish. Angry at myself for not seeing it until now.

 

She has since kept sending me IM requests and I've kept ignoring them. Do wish she'd just go away.

 

I don't get it - as you said "So her energy is up and into the bargain she you have made her decision for her so she hasn't had to face up to anything. She still has her support/security etc from her marriage .. and so she feels pretty good right now"....she obviously doesn't want to meet my needs, and has no needs from me right now, she is happy in her marriage....why won't she just go away?

[silverplanets]

She has since kept sending me IM requests and I've kept ignoring them. Do wish she'd just go away.

 

I don't get it - as you said "So her energy is up and into the bargain she you have made her decision for her so she hasn't had to face up to anything. She still has her support/security etc from her marriage .. and so she feels pretty good right now"....she obviously doesn't want to meet my needs, and has no needs from me right now, she is happy in her marriage....why won't she just go away?

 

If she can make you angry then that's still energy she's managing to take ... imagine the power of being able to cause a reaction in someone ! What a trip ..... why would she go away????

 

Attention is attention, be it love, anger or any other form ... it took me a long while to work this one out .... the form of attention is not important , what's important to them is just that they get some.

 

You hate them ... translates to "he cares enough about me to hate me" ... etc etc

 

xMW would do /say anything (however outrageous) just to get "a bite" ... because that bite validated her ... she'd got to me and therefore she had influence on me (in her eyes) .. again, I "cared" enough to hate.

 

 

I believe there's also another reason .. provided you are (in their eyes) still "engaged" in some way to their fantasy then they can justify keeping their fantasy up to themselves.

 

For example she can say "Nick says he hates me but he loves me really " ... and that allows them to keep up an illusion to themselves that they a back-up whenever other areas (marriage/job/friends/life) are not performing ...... effectively (and without your permission) she can keep this fantasy of you as a crutch for her life .. (and save her taking responsibility) ...

 

If she can't keep these fantasies up then she might have to face some truths ... and why does a married person have an A to start with ... cause they are not willing to sit down and deal with the truths on their own/with their partner.

 

You've effectively ended her game/fantasy WITHOUT HER PERMISSION ... she will do anything to regain control (even temporarily) if only to end it herself (so that she feels in control) ....

 

 

Just my thoughts

 

Chris

[wheelwright]

If she can make you angry then that's still energy she's managing to take ... imagine the power of being able to cause a reaction in someone ! What a trip ..... why would she go away????

 

Attention is attention, be it love, anger or any other form ... it took me a long while to work this one out .... the form of attention is not important , what's important to them is just that they get some.

 

You hate them ... translates to "he cares enough about me to hate me" ... etc etc

 

xMW would do /say anything (however outrageous) just to get "a bite" ... because that bite validated her ... she'd got to me and therefore she had influence on me (in her eyes) .. again, I "cared" enough to hate.

 

 

I believe there's also another reason .. provided you are (in their eyes) still "engaged" in some way to their fantasy then they can justify keeping their fantasy up to themselves.

 

For example she can say "Nick says he hates me but he loves me really " ... and that allows them to keep up an illusion to themselves that they a back-up whenever other areas (marriage/job/friends/life) are not performing ...... effectively (and without your permission) she can keep this fantasy of you as a crutch for her life .. (and save her taking responsibility) ...

 

If she can't keep these fantasies up then she might have to face some truths ... and why does a married person have an A to start with ... cause they are not willing to sit down and deal with the truths on their own/with their partner.

 

You've effectively ended her game/fantasy WITHOUT HER PERMISSION ... she will do anything to regain control (even temporarily) if only to end it herself (so that she feels in control) ....

 

 

Just my thoughts

 

Chris

 

Big thoughts.

 

Is that control feeling really so important when real love is concerned?

 

Doesn't what you are saying mean it's something other than love?

 

Or does love always carry this shadow? And you are highlighting it for OP's benefit?

 

And I have to say, in this case it seems it may be a factor.

 

NJ , it's hard to say from your posts how much you hurt. I'm guessing you underplay it.