Seven times a charm?

[nick.johnstone]

Oh i'm utterly devastated. Devastated I've lost someone who has been my best friend and love of my life for the last 12 years; the person I have shared and trusted more than any other on this planet. Devastated that we've ended with such animosity which now tarnishes all the happy memories - god if we were to end I would have preferred it before she started to drift again and the arguing started with grace and dignity. Devastated that the woman I thought who loved me as much as I loved her actually turned out to be a controlling emotionally immature selfish bitch who would rather sever ties than even attempt to compromise or meet my needs. Devastated that I've been used and wasted 12 years of my life. Devastated as I now feel as if every precious moment - everything she ever said these last 8 years was a lie. Devastated that she's treating me as if this was a one-night stand she's embarrassed about and slinking away from. Devastated because everything reminds me of her and regardless of everything she's done I still miss her and have no idea if I'll ever get over her.

 

Its funny you both mentioned control as that what I was thinking today. I finally accepted her relentless IM requests this morning....and sent her a message asking her what she wanted. She doesn't reply. As you said I think it really is about control for her - having my name on her phone means she has got her way and has that "control" to whether we talk or not...and also means she can pretend I'm still there as a crutch. I was about to send her a message telling her I'm deleting her again but I suspect we'd just have a repeat of her relentless requests. Perhaps you're right and she wants to break off on her terms...have that last word....if so I wish she'd hurry up because whilst she (and her picture) is on my IM I can't help but miss her.

 

I think you're right about her attempting to elicit attention as it demonstrates I still care....though to be honest I think I've been guilty of doing that as well this last year whilst she drifted...and I know I took some pleasure when she said she hated me (for calling her selfish) as it implied she wasn't as indifference to "us" as she claims to be. God I'm as nuts as she is...but I suppose even the most secure of us require that validation. The question is - if you do feel hate for someone (rather than indifference) does that mean you (still) love them?

 

Talking of one night stands and slinking away I'm off on a date tonight....let the recovery process begin!

[Circular]

Hey Nick

 

Know well the feeling of devastated, sorry it's come to that. It's also good to see you being real with yourself on how you feel about what's going on. It seemed in early posts you were removing yourself a bit from how connected you were with her. Truth is, not many people would use up 12 years of their life if they didn't secretly hope to get something in the end.

 

You really need to just be NC, block her on IM or be invisible, etc... Your giving in to her relentless IMs because your still holding on that she might change her mind or say what you want to hear "bargaining"

 

Truthfully, hate is as powerful as love - it means you have something emotionally invested, indifference takes time. You have to see the emotional game for what it is - This may sound strange but if she can make you angry and feel hate, for her that is just as good as love - as long as she can get you to react emotionally she holds the cards on you. Underneath all the logic we use to reason, emotional sways reinforce our memories and wether good or bad are what we use to anchor our connections to others. Its why we can get addicted to the "drama" because these emotions we equate to feeling "alive" and somehow, once disconnected are what lasso us back in when we realize they are missing. It's when you choose to no longer react that she begins to lose her grip and the gates begin to open to freedom.

[fooled once]

30th June 2010, 5:53 PM

I told her I didn't want to argue anymore - that we need to find a way to meet both our needs or end things forever - she replied instantaneously that she'd rather end things forever than try to find a compromise. She said what we do disgusts her. I said we've done this so many times before and she always comes back...but I wouldn't take her back this time, that she shouldn't make a rash decision as forever is a long time....that 12 years friendship / 8 years of relationship is worth more and isn't disposable. She said she didn't care. We said goodbye. Contacts deleted on IM.

 

I'm not worried about myself breaking NC but I am honestly terrified however that she'll come back and history repeating itself.

 

30th June 2010, 7:55 PM

As for dating? Its not on the top of my list...but if you're offering sure!

 

2 July 2010, 9:57 AM

I honestly have had no desire to contact her and even went on an enjoyable date with a (single!) ex yesterday.

 

So I messaged her this morning - a concise message telling her "this is the last message you'll get from me but I couldn't go without saying I'm glad we're over because I see you for the emotionally immature and selfish person that you are. That no matter what you say or do I'll never allow you to use me again."

 

She sent me an IM request immediately (she doesn't like sending text messages as they show up on her bill). I ignored it. She sent me a message saying she wanted to talk. I ignored her. She sent me another message saying she wanted to "compromise". I have to admit I was intrigued at what that meant so I accepted her IM request.

 

I replied saying "I don't care if you hate me. The message I sent wasnt a ploy to get you back; I simply couldn't go without telling you what I thought of you. This madness has gone on enough - goodbye." I deleted her off IM.

 

She has since kept sending me IM requests and I've kept ignoring them. Do wish she'd just go away.

 

3 July 2010, 1:29 PM

I finally accepted her relentless IM requests this morning....and sent her a message asking her what she wanted. ....... I was about to send her a message telling her I'm deleting her again but I suspect we'd just have a repeat of her relentless requests. Perhaps you're right and she wants to break off on her terms...have that last word....if so I wish she'd hurry up because whilst she (and her picture) is on my IM I can't help but miss her.

 

God I'm as nuts as she is..

 

Talking of one night stands and slinking away I'm off on a date tonight....let the recovery process begin!

 

Read and note the dates/times of what I highlighted.

 

All this talk of not contacting her and you broke that in under 2 days. You also talk about how you have no desire to date, yet you are.

 

So you spent 8 years in a relationship with a MW and within 2 days you are dating? Do you think that is fair to do to these women?

 

I believe you sent her a message on July 2 to get a reaction out of her and when you do, you want to blame her for being immature? And when she wants communication from you, you claim she is about control? Really?

 

Re-read what I bolded .... and really think about it.

[silverfish]

I have to say that what fooled once said above occured to me as well.... I understand the drama you are going through, but you don't get to the end of a long relationship with someone, have it end acrimoniously and then go out the next day ready for a new relationship

 

It won't end well. Even if you meet the love of your life tomorrow, things are so messy with you right now, it isn't going to work. You aren't at your best, and any intelligent woman will see that you are still in love with your ex.

 

Don't create MORE mess by involving a third party in this....take it out on your friends family or on here, or even have a rant at your ex if necessary, kick the cat...ok, don't kick the cat...but don't do a rebound number on some nice woman who doesn't deserve it

[nick.johnstone]

 

Talking of one night stands and slinking away I'm off on a date tonight....let the recovery process begin!

 

Sorry guys - was deflecting....really have no intention of getting into a rebound relationship...know it would be unfair on whomever I bring into this equation. The date this evening was with my (single) ex...most of which was spent drinking too much red wine and my boring her to death about Sarah. Well she owes me as I did the same for her a few months back when she broke up with her boyfriend. Anyway a fun, chaste, platonic evening and no cats were kicked!

 

I do disagree about what you say about my only sending her a message because I wanted a reaction though - I was angry and I wanted her to know that...as immature as it sounds I wanted to have the last word...and would have been glad if it was the last word. But I suspect thats why she sent the the IM requests which I only accepted her IM because she has been relentless in sending messages...saying she wants to talk etc....but once I did accept her request she went quiet. Which suggests some element of control / game playing on her part. Otherwise she would have replied.

 

I really do want / need change...either her giving me commitment or leaving so I can move on with my life. Am I still in love with her and do I hope she'll suddenly message to say she'll be with me properly? Of course. Do I have any belief it'll happen? No.

[Silly_Girl]

I really do want / need change...either her giving me commitment or leaving so I can move on with my life. Am I still in love with her and do I hope she'll suddenly message to say she'll be with me properly? Of course. Do I have any belief it'll happen? No.

 

So you want HER to either choose you, or for HER to leave. But she's in charge... Why not put a bow round your heart and send it to her recorded delivery?!

 

Seriously though, nothing's changed in the dynamic between you so she has no reason to change anything. You're the one faced with a dilemma that affects and concerns you and only you. Should you continue with an unhealthy, unfulfilling relationship that by its very existence ensures you will never be emotionally open to a good thing with someone new; or do you get strict on yourself and move on to a better, more stable and promising future? Hhmmm, toughie, that one.

 

Sarah can't give you what you want or deserve, and by engaging with her you're treating her husband like a sack of s*** too. Give up the IM. In the big picture it matters not who has 'the last word'. But you'll benefit by not getting pulled into more adolescent tit for tat.

 

Focus on you, your life. If Sarah's divorce papers come through in a year or three, well, I imagine she has plenty of ways to get hold of you to share the good news. But for your own sake you need to go cold turkey; the sooner you can do it the quicker you'll find yourself on the path of being healed. I know it's hard... but it's necessary

[nick.johnstone]

I hate cold turkey as much as I hate being on the wagon!

 

I've spent the last few days thinking about the situation - really thinking; re-reading this thread countless times...getting angry...getting upset. And today peace...and the utterly obvious conclusion that I deserve better. Better than a married woman who has absolutely no regard for my feelings or needs and is stringing both her husband and me along.

 

She was still on my IM - we hadn't talked but as I mentioned she kept getting annoyed when I deleted her. I messaged her today - one word - "goodbye" and once I saw she'd received it I deleted her IM. She kept sending me requests all afternoon which I've ignored.

 

She sent a long email to say she understands we can't continue like this. That my giving her an ultimatum shocked her...made her hate me for being "demanding" because in the last 12 years I've been such an accommodating friend and lover. She appreciates however I have every right to be demanding and have my needs met. That she hates me however she doesn't want to lose me. That she's wants to take some time to decide whether she's going to leave her husband or leave me. She wants me to accept her IM but she won't talk to me.

 

I'm not sure why I'm being hated - surely its reasonable for me to assert my needs...just as she always has? But more importantly how do I respond - I do of course still love her and having her "properly" would make me happy...I think? I don't know anymore...a part of me hates her too. Does it ever happen - can you go through 8 years of riding an emotional roller coaster and make it properly or has too much damage been done....if so then probably better she doesn't even think about leaving her husband. Thats if she is...what if this is just a ruse to get me to stay in her life...I assume thats normal practice...lying about planning to divorce?

 

Its as if I'm at a crossroad and I have to decide whether I sever ties forever and get on with my life...never letting her back in regardless of whether she leaves her husband or not, or I wait a little bit longer to see what she says.

[Circular]

my thoughts....

 

Your best mode right now is to stay in no contact. Don't IM her anymore, no calls, nothing. She knows what your ultimatum is and I'd suggest keeping NC until she starts down the path or shows you the divorce papers. She knows you love her and I can tell just how she's acting she feels the same just doesn't want to face the truth of the matter. Otherwise she would have just said F-O and walked away. Makes me think of one of my favorite Peter Murphy songs 'A strange kind of love'.

 

The reason she wants you to be on her IM is so she can track you, it will give her comfort knowing you're there, ok, etc... But you shouldn't do that as that's only going to extend the heartache for both of you. And she'll use it as a crutch to delay her decision. If I was in your shoes and your strong enough, accept her IM request and set yourself 'permanently invisible' to her. That way she can't see you and she'll not pester you for the request.

 

Also, the no contact thing is going to be hard, sounds like you've done it a few times already with her but now your fear is the permanence of real 'no contact'. I'd move on with your life, leave the ball in her court. If she decides for the D then maybe it was meant to be, if not, well, then it wasn't. If she decides on the D though, definitely get yourselves into couples counseling as a first step and really work through the issues.

[Fight4Me]

I hate cold turkey as much as I hate being on the wagon!

 

I've spent the last few days thinking about the situation - really thinking; re-reading this thread countless times...getting angry...getting upset. And today peace...and the utterly obvious conclusion that I deserve better. Better than a married woman who has absolutely no regard for my feelings or needs and is stringing both her husband and me along.

 

She was still on my IM - we hadn't talked but as I mentioned she kept getting annoyed when I deleted her. I messaged her today - one word - "goodbye" and once I saw she'd received it I deleted her IM. She kept sending me requests all afternoon which I've ignored.

 

She sent a long email to say she understands we can't continue like this. That my giving her an ultimatum shocked her...made her hate me for being "demanding" because in the last 12 years I've been such an accommodating friend and lover. She appreciates however I have every right to be demanding and have my needs met. That she hates me however she doesn't want to lose me. That she's wants to take some time to decide whether she's going to leave her husband or leave me. She wants me to accept her IM but she won't talk to me.

 

I'm not sure why I'm being hated - surely its reasonable for me to assert my needs...just as she always has? But more importantly how do I respond - I do of course still love her and having her "properly" would make me happy...I think? I don't know anymore...a part of me hates her too. Does it ever happen - can you go through 8 years of riding an emotional roller coaster and make it properly or has too much damage been done....if so then probably better she doesn't even think about leaving her husband. Thats if she is...what if this is just a ruse to get me to stay in her life...I assume thats normal practice...lying about planning to divorce?

 

Its as if I'm at a crossroad and I have to decide whether I sever ties forever and get on with my life...never letting her back in regardless of whether she leaves her husband or not, or I wait a little bit longer to see what she says.

 

I haven't chimed in on this thread yet, but have been following it. First of all, I want to say that I think you're doing the right thing and doing rather well, even though it may not feel like it right now.

 

I'm a fBW, but I'm going to speak purely from a woman's pov, so you understand that my opinion would be the same regardless of whether I had been betrayed or not. I also think her marital status can be set aside because what she writes to you and how she treats you isn't contingent upon that. So, here it goes...

 

I suspected it before, but your latest post confirms to me that she is the type who has to be in control. She has always called the shots. She decides when you start back up again, when it goes lukewarm, when it ends and how... rinse and repeat. Which answers your question as to why she wants you to add her back to IM. By deleting her, you have taken some semblance of control from her. She'll be damned if you are the one who decides when things end, even if she does hate you. This isn't about love or hate with her... it's narcissism at its finest.

 

There are women out there that actually have to have this kind of control over men or else they get beyond pissed. They are different than your average female game player, too. I know you love her, but you seriously need to extricate yourself if you hope to have any sort of normal life. I know it hurts and that it's hard to imagine finding someone who can fill that void (much like an addiction), but I guarantee that if you remove her ability to contact you (block her on IM, email, phone (or change your number and make it private), you will not only recover, but you will get to the point where you wonder how you ever allowed anyone to treat you the way she has. You will find yourself in the future telling your wife about a "psycho girlfriend" from your past, and you'll shiver involuntarily while doing so. LOL I kid you not!

 

I've gathered that you don't seem like the type to accept the kind of abuse and mind games from single women, so you need to ask yourself why you're willing to take it from one who is married. I think sometimes there's the thrill of the chase and the hunt, going back and forth. Not to stereotype, but it's like the avid hunter who can't seem to bag a particularly elusive buck, and will even pass up better game even when it has become obvious that it's fruitless. After many seasons, should you finally claim your prize, you'll wish you hadn't wasted so much time and energy on a freezer full of tough, flavorless meat. Sorry for the imagery that goes along with that analogy, but I think it really applies in this case. You're better than this... really.

 

Good luck, Nick. You can do it!

[ComputerJock]

Drop her husband a line, tell him you've become a man and decided to stop fu$king his wife. He deserves to know what a slut she is.

[silverplanets]

I hate cold turkey as much as I hate being on the wagon!

 

I've spent the last few days thinking about the situation - really thinking; re-reading this thread countless times...getting angry...getting upset. And today peace...and the utterly obvious conclusion that I deserve better. Better than a married woman who has absolutely no regard for my feelings or needs and is stringing both her husband and me along.

 

She was still on my IM - we hadn't talked but as I mentioned she kept getting annoyed when I deleted her. I messaged her today - one word - "goodbye" and once I saw she'd received it I deleted her IM. She kept sending me requests all afternoon which I've ignored.

 

She sent a long email to say she understands we can't continue like this. That my giving her an ultimatum shocked her...made her hate me for being "demanding" because in the last 12 years I've been such an accommodating friend and lover. She appreciates however I have every right to be demanding and have my needs met. That she hates me however she doesn't want to lose me. That she's wants to take some time to decide whether she's going to leave her husband or leave me. She wants me to accept her IM but she won't talk to me.

 

I'm not sure why I'm being hated - surely its reasonable for me to assert my needs...just as she always has? But more importantly how do I respond - I do of course still love her and having her "properly" would make me happy...I think? I don't know anymore...a part of me hates her too. Does it ever happen - can you go through 8 years of riding an emotional roller coaster and make it properly or has too much damage been done....if so then probably better she doesn't even think about leaving her husband. Thats if she is...what if this is just a ruse to get me to stay in her life...I assume thats normal practice...lying about planning to divorce?

 

Its as if I'm at a crossroad and I have to decide whether I sever ties forever and get on with my life...never letting her back in regardless of whether she leaves her husband or not, or I wait a little bit longer to see what she says.

 

I love the bolded bit ... it's NOT her decision !!!!

 

She doesn't get to decide IF she chooses you or him (unless you both let her).

 

Classic, absolutely classic!!!!

 

After 12 years she wants time to decide whether to leave him or you ... so approach it from the other way .. if she has never decided/thought about it seriously before then throughout that 12 years how much "reality" was behind her words and actions .....

 

absolutely none, surely.

 

If after 12 years someone needs time to decide IF they want to leave their H then surely that tells you all you need to know.

 

After 12 years they are considering whether to think seriously about you, so what's that crap been for the 12 years .... oh yes, that's right, just crap.

 

Going to stop here before I rant !!! but this sort of thing really gets my goat !!

 

You can decide Nick ... you have the right ... after all it is your life :)

 

Apologies if I've the wrong end of the stick ... just this peeved me !!!

 

take care

Chris

[wheelwright]

I'm not sure why I'm being hated - surely its reasonable for me to assert my needs...just as she always has? But more importantly how do I respond - I do of course still love her and having her "properly" would make me happy...I think? I don't know anymore...a part of me hates her too. Does it ever happen - can you go through 8 years of riding an emotional roller coaster and make it properly or has too much damage been done....if so then probably better she doesn't even think about leaving her husband. Thats if she is...what if this is just a ruse to get me to stay in her life...I assume thats normal practice...lying about planning to divorce?

 

QUOTE]

 

This whole thing is making me think carrot/stick.

 

You have been the perfect bait for this.

 

Time to stop being a donkey. You will take control now - that's how I read your posts.

 

I don't think MW is bad - but the control thing ends now.

 

The devastation you speak of I have felt. Please do not think me unkind in my replies.

 

Go on with your life, if she ever enters it again, let it be as an equal, where you each respect the other's power to be.

 

I am glad you seem strong.

[jthorne]

I love the bolded bit ... it's NOT her decision !!!!

 

She doesn't get to decide IF she chooses you or him (unless you both let her).

 

Classic, absolutely classic!!!!

 

After 12 years she wants time to decide whether to leave him or you ... so approach it from the other way .. if she has never decided/thought about it seriously before then throughout that 12 years how much "reality" was behind her words and actions .....

 

absolutely none, surely.

 

If after 12 years someone needs time to decide IF they want to leave their H then surely that tells you all you need to know.

 

After 12 years they are considering whether to think seriously about you, so what's that crap been for the 12 years .... oh yes, that's right, just crap.

 

Going to stop here before I rant !!! but this sort of thing really gets my goat !!

 

You can decide Nick ... you have the right ... after all it is your life :)

 

Apologies if I've the wrong end of the stick ... just this peeved me !!!

 

take care

Chris

Agreed. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and shorts, and am negotiating the DVD release...

Nick, this has gone on long enough. You have to stop it with the IM's. You are just dragging it out. Stop accepting her I'M requests, stop it with the goodbyes. Don't take as long getting out of the affair as you spent in the affair.

 

She knows where you stand. Further contact with her shows you may be willing to go back on your word. Resign yourself to the fact that she most likely is going to stay in her M. She's had 12 years to do otherwise, and hasn't chosen to. Time for you to move on. If she actually does divorce, she knows where to find you.

[nick.johnstone]

Yes I've often accused her throughout our "relationship" of dangling a carrot in front of my face and then beating me with it; I suppose I have been a donkey...or an ass to be more precise!

 

I have to admit Fight4Me's post shook me - specifically:

 

"I suspected it before, but your latest post confirms to me that she is the type who has to be in control. She has always called the shots. She decides when you start back up again, when it goes lukewarm, when it ends and how... rinse and repeat. Which answers your question as to why she wants you to add her back to IM. By deleting her, you have taken some semblance of control from her. She'll be damned if you are the one who decides when things end, even if she does hate you. This isn't about love or hate with her... it's narcissism at its finest."

 

It made me see Sarah in a new light. I now look back over our "relationship" and realise I have never had any control and my needs were never met unless she wanted to meet them. I always forgave her inconsistency as I appreciated the guilt she experienced however as an adult she could have been less selfish or more emotionally mature with her decisions and actions. And because I took the control away from her for the first time by giving her an ultimatum she suddenly hates....that is just narcissism. And how can I want to be with someone narcissistic?

 

Though I have no doubt she loves me I suspect she's one to act on impulse...doing what feels right at the time without any regard for her consequences. Loving when it suits her...not loving when it doesn't. I may not be married or have had any other serious relationships but I suspect if you love someone there is meant to be some selflessness or compromise! Well I'm not going to be the only one to compromise anymore.....

 

Chris (Silverplants) no need to apologise....yes you have the right end of the stick! As Wheelwright said this really has to end now...and Wheelright I don't in anyway think your replies have been unkind...in fact I think the brutal honesty on this site has really opened my eyes. Even my best friend and sister have tempered their opinions to spare my feelings.

 

NC is going to be hard - technology wise. Unfortunately Circular I can't make her invisible as we use a messenger which doesn't support that feature; and she has my work email address and phone number which I can't change. But actually thats all seeming less important as the days pass as I'm finding myself caring less...enjoying life more without her in it; don't get me wrong I still miss our conversations and sharing my life with her...but life suddenly hasn't ended...in fact quite the opposite...I seem to have a renewed sense of purpose and energy.

 

Regardless of the suggestions I'm not going to tell her husband; no sense of ruining the life she has chosen...I'd rather focus my energies on enjoying my life more anyway and as WheelWright "Go on with your life, if she ever enters it again, let it be as an equal, where you each respect the other's power to be."

 

Thank you all again - you've all been utterly invaluable these last weeks. I honestly don't know what I would have done without your advice. Needless to say I'll keep you updated....!

[fooled once]

Agreed. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and shorts, and am negotiating the DVD release...

Nick, this has gone on long enough. You have to stop it with the IM's. You are just dragging it out. Stop accepting her I'M requests, stop it with the goodbyes. Don't take as long getting out of the affair as you spent in the affair.

 

She knows where you stand. Further contact with her shows you may be willing to go back on your word. Resign yourself to the fact that she most likely is going to stay in her M. She's had 12 years to do otherwise, and hasn't chosen to. Time for you to move on. If she actually does divorce, she knows where to find you.

 

Exactly. Her message about 'thinking about which one of you to pick' is just to keep that carrot dangling and you feel for it by saying this!

 

Its as if I'm at a crossroad and I have to decide whether I sever ties forever and get on with my life...never letting her back in regardless of whether she leaves her husband or not, or I wait a little bit longer to see what she says.

 

Until otherwise, she has picked her Marriage, her husband.

[nick.johnstone]

Musings from the No Contact Zone:

 

I woke up missing her terribly...missing the chemistry (that Circular mentioned in his posts), with nothing but love in my heart; I miss my friend; I miss her touch; i miss sharing my day with her. And what a strange day - where every song on the radio seemed to remind me of her (though I acknowledge there were many songs that didn't remind me of her but still), a meeting with a new client in the building next to hers, being taken for lunch at the same discrete restaurant we used to go to, a mutual friend calling randomly this afternoon mentioning he saw her last weekend. Films on TV tonight that we both love.

 

I have stopped myself contacting her countless times today. I know if I let her back in nothing will have changed. Nothing will EVER change with her. I know she doesn't care about my needs so when I get hurt its my fault. I wish I could hate her...because then I'd be angry. Anger is such a wonderful emotion isn't it? Reminds you why you broke up and why no contact is necessary. Anger is an emotional self protection system that prevents you from doing anything stupid and stops you getting hurt. But what happens when the anger subsides and love rather than indifference surfaces?

 

It doesn't matter if you delete them from your phone and IM; it does't matter if you throw out the pictures and gifts; it doesn't matter if you know its a futile situation and they've hurt you....if you've been in love with someone for 12 years you can't forget them, you can't stop loving them...regardless of how much you wish you could.

 

Or maybe you can. I just have to maintain NC and ignore her if she contacts me...

 

Apologies for the rant...just needed to talk.

[jthorne]

Stick with the NC. She is what she is, you just haven't accepted it yet. You're still hoping for a better result. There's nothing you can do to make that better result happen with her. But someday, you could have a better result with someone else. (Go read my update in Fooled Once's "Update on your A" thread if you want proof.)

 

Mrs. Right could be right around the corner. But you won't see her if you're still stuck on Sarah.

[Circular]

Musings from the No Contact Zone:

 

I woke up missing her terribly...missing the chemistry (that Circular mentioned in his posts), with nothing but love in my heart; I miss my friend; I miss her touch; i miss sharing my day with her. And what a strange day - where every song on the radio seemed to remind me of her (though I acknowledge there were many songs that didn't remind me of her but still), a meeting with a new client in the building next to hers, being taken for lunch at the same discrete restaurant we used to go to, a mutual friend calling randomly this afternoon mentioning he saw her last weekend. Films on TV tonight that we both love.

 

I have stopped myself contacting her countless times today. I know if I let her back in nothing will have changed. Nothing will EVER change with her. I know she doesn't care about my needs so when I get hurt its my fault. I wish I could hate her...because then I'd be angry. Anger is such a wonderful emotion isn't it? Reminds you why you broke up and why no contact is necessary. Anger is an emotional self protection system that prevents you from doing anything stupid and stops you getting hurt. But what happens when the anger subsides and love rather than indifference surfaces?

 

It doesn't matter if you delete them from your phone and IM; it does't matter if you throw out the pictures and gifts; it doesn't matter if you know its a futile situation and they've hurt you....if you've been in love with someone for 12 years you can't forget them, you can't stop loving them...regardless of how much you wish you could.

 

Or maybe you can. I just have to maintain NC and ignore her if she contacts me...

 

Apologies for the rant...just needed to talk.

 

Oh how I can relate to what you are going through, too well unfortunately. It's going to take some time and it'll ease up and eventually you'll have days where you "understand" (not saying accept) why things have to be the way they are. For me, I'm coming up on 12 weeks, she's tried contacting me a few times and each time I go through the resurgence of the love loss pains all over again. Fortunately, since I initiated NC, her missives have been short; I think more testing the water to see if there's any possibility we can talk.

 

I find for myself that Mondays are especially hard, I miss us talking about the weekend and kicking off my week knowing she's ok. The one perspective I've truly gained in the last 12 weeks is how little it had to do with the physical side of things, I was fully emotionally bonded. Some of the hardest things for me still are going to a movie, knowing she would have liked it and not being able to tell her to see it or listen to some new song I just heard. I find the physical is easier to separate from (I do miss it also though), it's the connecting part that I'm grieving the most; her laugh, her smile, those looks that communicate volumes and just that mutual understaning piece. I've never met a woman I had so much in common with. Sure, we had differences, but the "what we liked" list was amazingly lengthy.

 

Stick in there though, it will get easier. I also tend to agree that real love can't be erased but I do believe it can transition from romantic love to more of a deep caring love, like how I feel about my closest friends.

 

I find my best friend right now is writing. I journal like crazy when I start having a bad day and I force myself to write WHY I am doing this, sure I let out my emotions but then I reel it back to the rational reasons and that makes me feel a bit better.

 

Keep up the good work, it's hard but you know, as do I, that it's the right path for you to choose.

[Fight4Me]

 

It doesn't matter if you delete them from your phone and IM; it does't matter if you throw out the pictures and gifts; it doesn't matter if you know its a futile situation and they've hurt you....if you've been in love with someone for 12 years you can't forget them, you can't stop loving them...regardless of how much you wish you could.

 

You believe this because this has been your reality for 12 years. I would say you've been in bondage for all this time more than you've been in love, to be perfectly honest. That isn't meant to negate your feelings, but to throw a spotlight on the reality of the situation. Again, it has always been about control with you. You're like a catch and release fish, always taking the bait, always getting reeled in, always getting thrown back.

 

When you live a good portion of your life this way, it's easy to form a skewed version of love and respect. You've not had the opportunity to find the love of your life because this unscrupulous MOW has truly mangled reality for you. Right now, it's completely natural to feel the way you do, but once you stop the cycle once and for all, you'll begin to experience true recovery and normalcy.

 

Move away from her boat. Don't jump in it. Don't take any more bait. You're not a salmon. Tape that to your phone if you have to.

[Silly_Girl]

I LOVE that!

 

"I am not a salmon". Sounds crazy but the analogy really suits me. Genius. I shall use it, starting now. Thank you!!!!

[Fight4Me]

I LOVE that!

 

"I am not a salmon". Sounds crazy but the analogy really suits me. Genius. I shall use it, starting now. Thank you!!!!

 

You're quite welcome. I was rather proud of it myself! ROFL!

[Bitlost2]

I'm not a salmon or rather I don't want to be a salmon again either!!!

 

OMG Nick! 12 years? How have you done it? I've done it for two and am now on tablets with my emotions and life in tatters around me!!

 

So much of what you say echos my thoughts, emotions, opinions, feelings, fears etc. It even scares me that my cycle of break ups/make ups could continue to go on. My MOM has had all the control too, apart from I am the one that always says leave me alone, you've made your choice but it's always him that comes back and me that can't say no once he does. (I'm really good at NC but no good at saying no once he breaks it!!) He's the one who sets the tone nowadays - loving some days, distant another etc.

 

Been meaning to ask this question on the forum for the last few days: is anyone still in love with the person they fell for rather the one that's around currently, hoping that the previous one will reappear?? What I'm trying to say is that I'm in love with the bloke I met two years ago and had a magical six months with. We were equals and just connected. However the one he offers nowadays is colder, harder, less emotional, in control of his feelings. I've convinced myself in the past that he only does this because he won't 'allow' himself to accept his true feelings for me because of his young family. HA HA HA LOL! I'm soooooo foolish. I didn't realise that my A is essentially following pretty much all the other A trends descibed on this site. I thought we were special, just met at the wrong time in life. STUPID ME!!!

 

 

So good luck Nick. Just have to agree with most of the other posters - life is there to be lived and enjoyed without her. Will be so tough, but I hope to get there too some day and my goodness the relief and freedom is going to be amazing after all this pain!!! Take care.

[nick.johnstone]

I am not a salmon....they should put that on a t-shirt and send it to us when we join this site!

 

But in answer to your question BitLost2 thats exactly how I've managed the last 12 years...by abandoning all sense of rationality, sense and logic and letting myself become a salmon to be caught and thrown back-in...ignoring the reality of the situation and how she made me feel because I loved her more than any person I had ever loved before....and those moments she loved me back were some of the happiest I'd ever experienced. Call it love, call it bondage, call it addiction...whatever it was "then" was worth the heartache. As FightForMe (who should have everything she says put on t-shirts) said "When you live a good portion of your life this way, it's easy to form a skewed version of love and respect"

 

But not anymore...call it a moment of clarity but I guess I've had enough now. I can't imagine I would have felt like this 8 years ago, 5 years ago or even last year....something just changed in me this time which made me say "enough".

 

She emailed last night. Asking me to call her urgently. I ignored her. She emailed again saying it was to do with her Husband. I called her...expecting something really bad had happened. It hadn't. Something trivial. I gave her the "advice" she wanted re: her husband. Calmly. Factually. Didn't ask how she was. She asked if I wanted to meet up. I said no...nothing has changed. She went quiet. I said goodbye and put the phone down. She texted asking if I was alright. I ignored her.

 

I have to admit I feel proud of myself! Yes I still love her and care for her enough to answer her "issue" however thats all it was. No desire to catch up or meet. NC actually seems possible now...

 

Circular - Thank you. And well done to the 12 weeks. If this was AA you'd like a badge or something. Perhaps a Salmon T-shirt instead?!

[silverplanets]

I am not a salmon....they should put that on a t-shirt and send it to us when we join this site!

 

But in answer to your question BitLost2 thats exactly how I've managed the last 12 years...by abandoning all sense of rationality, sense and logic and letting myself become a salmon to be caught and thrown back-in...ignoring the reality of the situation and how she made me feel because I loved her more than any person I had ever loved before....and those moments she loved me back were some of the happiest I'd ever experienced. Call it love, call it bondage, call it addiction...whatever it was "then" was worth the heartache. As FightForMe (who should have everything she says put on t-shirts) said "When you live a good portion of your life this way, it's easy to form a skewed version of love and respect"

 

But not anymore...call it a moment of clarity but I guess I've had enough now. I can't imagine I would have felt like this 8 years ago, 5 years ago or even last year....something just changed in me this time which made me say "enough".

 

She emailed last night. Asking me to call her urgently. I ignored her. She emailed again saying it was to do with her Husband. I called her...expecting something really bad had happened. It hadn't. Something trivial. I gave her the "advice" she wanted re: her husband. Calmly. Factually. Didn't ask how she was. She asked if I wanted to meet up. I said no...nothing has changed. She went quiet. I said goodbye and put the phone down. She texted asking if I was alright. I ignored her.

 

I have to admit I feel proud of myself! Yes I still love her and care for her enough to answer her "issue" however thats all it was. No desire to catch up or meet. NC actually seems possible now...

 

Circular - Thank you. And well done to the 12 weeks. If this was AA you'd like a badge or something. Perhaps a Salmon T-shirt instead?!

 

Classic

 

Says all you need to know really.

 

Keep walking Nick

 

Chris

[OM1]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

 

Nick and everyone, you are saving my life, one post at a time. It's LONELY being the OM, isn't it? I chose that as my user name to wear as a badge of shame until I'm finally free of this. Not close yet, but Nick is inspiring me.

 

NICK! I've been through EVERY single thing you've said, except mine has only lasted 3 years, not 12. I went NC about 4 months ago ... and slipped up about 1 month ago. We are right back in it. We're in love. We're soulmates. There is light at the end of the tunnel. She can't imagine living her life without me. She can't imagine being with her husband forever. BUT ... it's right around the corner. It's exactly like you say, Nick. It's a cycle. A cycle we've repeated - like you - countless times. She feels guilty. She doesn't know if she can leave. In fact, she can't leave. The attachment is too great. The turmoil it will cause is too much with friends and family. She doesn't want to hurt their child. It's over. ... Until she calls again and the cycle restarts.

 

Gosh for SO long I've felt all alone in this. Seems like there are lots of OWs out there, but not as many OMs. Probably not true, but there aren't as many OMs speaking out.

 

They never leave, do they? Nick, my 3 months of NC began exactly like yours. We are addicts. The initial break is a relief. We're strong, we're moving on. Then the desperation kicks in. Then the ANGER kicks in strong. But then the anger dissipates, and we say, "oh jeez, I still love her, and I'm not mad anymore." And THAT is when they pop up again.

 

That's where I am, today. Late stages of Step 1 of the cycle, but moving quickly towards 2 and 3 (although, I would say I usually don't get the anger from her ... more like a frustration). I suspect we're days away from "The Talk." That she can't leave. That we have to walk away from this. We've had The Talk countless times.

 

I have no control, friends.