White Liar

[NoIDidn't]

Just FYI, a 'white lie' is if my husband tells me he likes my new haircut, even when he doesn't. Not if he tells me he's in an entirely different city than he's actually in, and leaves out that he's there to bang his mistress.

 

Good point.

 

And, not mentioning that the W was on trip to sister's wasn't a white lie either. It was a lie of omission. One that was picked up on, but decidedly ignored to not ruin things.

 

A white lie is generally harmless. The whoppers being told, or omitted, here, are far from harmless. They have real consequences.

[Mombot]

My original question was pretty much, do AP's pretty much let it all slide, not whether they believe there are lies told to themselves.

[jj33]

Mombot doesnt it bother you that he lies to you? Its not good and its not going to change unless you call him on it. Casual lies are not acceptable if you want anything more than an affair.

[Fieldsofgold]

My original question was pretty much, do AP's pretty much let it all slide, not whether they believe there are lies told to themselves.

 

I think most APs believe they are being told the truth.

[Susmay]

When my H was in a long term affair he needed a wife who trusted him and who beleived his lies and could not tell whether he lied or not.

 

Effectively he "groomed" me. He would sometimes tell unnecessary "white" lies and if I did catch him out it all served to acclimatise me to the fact that he appeared to lie without obvious reasons. So I overlooked it as it seemed harmless.

 

Now we have had a D day and he has begged and pleaded to stay with me. Although we are getting there, he now has a wife who no longer trusts him and he still has exactly what he wanted - a wife who can't tell whether or not he is lying. Now that operates to his (and my) detriment.

 

In that sense he has created a problem for himself.

 

I know he did the same to the OW. He also wanted her to trust in his underlying honesty while at the same time being unable to detect his lies. Given that almost everything else about him is "textbook" MM, I assume this is too.

 

It's almost amusing (but really sad) to see so many OW on this forum who really do seem to believe this is not part and parcel of an affair.

[seren]

I have often thought that one of the cruelest bits of an A is the lying, the having someone believe you and believe in you so much that the possibility that you (WS) could be lying or omitting the truth to maintain the R the way you want it to be is unthinkable. I don't think that most WS even think of how this can cause both BS and OP to question their sanity (at times).

 

I also think that it depends on where the WS is at in the moment, or who they are with determines the quality and depth of the lie. Most BS know when their WS is lying, just not why or what about, most pick up that something is off, but put it down to stress or whatever plausible excuse the WS chooses to give (gaslighting). I imagine, that most OP think that because WS is cheating and taking risks with their marriage, coupled with the idea that their R is different (same old that he says or has said to BS) cannot imagine how or why the WS would, should or could lie to them, certainly not about anything relating to the R.

 

As lying is the foundation for the A, then it shouldn't be any surprise that many WS can do it so easily. Sure, there are some very toxic marriages, where, frankly, who could blame WS for lying to have happiness elsewhere, but I think they are few and far between and IMO, once the WS realises life is better in the A, leave the marriage. Those that have long term A's and want to maintain the status quo, will lie, to all and sundry, but most of all to themselves.

[skylarblue]

Until this year, I would have and did defend that my MM was not the “typical” and would not nor have any reason to lie to me, even though he had told a few that I’d overlooked and never mentioned (his age and W’s name for example). We simply didn’t have that type of R (so I thought) and there was nothing that anyone could have said or done to convince me otherwise. Well, other than him it turned out. For me, it wasn’t even a “lie”. It was more a gesture that was so out of character for him I instantaneously and involuntarily saw it as nothing more than a way to use my emotions to draw me back to him because he thought (erroneously) that I was leaving him. That’s kinda when everything changed about how I view MM. I scrutinize nearly everything he says. Did he really work late so he could see me or is it just a guilt trip? Did he really buy a gift a week ago and forget to give it to me until then or did he grab something of his W’s last minute because he thought we were on shaky ground? Sadly, I always find myself leaning towards the shrewder. It sucks because 1) I thought MM and our R were so much better and different than that and 2) the thought of MM (as I thought I knew him) no longer makes me smile. I know MM will tell me whatever truths or lies he feels necessary to either protect or benefit himself. Comparatively, not that different from his M. It really has been a huge detriment to the R that I don’t think can be undone.

[Mombot]

Did you miss the "a lot of" part of my comment?????????

 

You're trying to make it sound like your deliberate seeking out of MM for sexual fun is the "norm" amongst OW. From all that I've seen here...it's not. It's not even close to the "norm". Some of them may seek out MM one time for a "physical only" affair, and then find themselves embroiled in an emotional relationship (similar to you, only you repeated the process many times before the emotional side caught up with you). The majority seem to go the other way...they START as emotional affairs that eventually go physical.

 

Realize when I say "most other women" or "a lot of other women"...I'm probably not referring in any fashion to the very few cases that run like yours or Lizzie's. I'm referring to the most common situation we see...women who end up in an emotional affair with one married man...not women who spend a lot of time seeking out various MM for 'fun'. You ended up in an emotional relationship...but that wasn't what you sought out or expected when you were seeing all of the previous MM's.

 

And for one final thought...if any of those other MM you were with thought for a moment that there WAS a need to lie to you (because they felt that there was an emotional attachment, etc...)...yep, I'd bet that they would have lied to you in a heartbeat.

 

I'm kind of surprised at your response. You're usually not one to pick one thing and try to exaggerate it out of proportion (he'll lie all the time then). You're normally someone that I'd expect a reasoned out response from.

I was alittle confused by this- never been with a MM before this separated one.

[White Flower]

Until this year, I would have and did defend that my MM was not the “typical” and would not nor have any reason to lie to me, even though he had told a few that I’d overlooked and never mentioned (his age and W’s name for example). We simply didn’t have that type of R (so I thought) and there was nothing that anyone could have said or done to convince me otherwise. Well, other than him it turned out. For me, it wasn’t even a “lie”. It was more a gesture that was so out of character for him I instantaneously and involuntarily saw it as nothing more than a way to use my emotions to draw me back to him because he thought (erroneously) that I was leaving him. That’s kinda when everything changed about how I view MM. I scrutinize nearly everything he says. Did he really work late so he could see me or is it just a guilt trip? Did he really buy a gift a week ago and forget to give it to me until then or did he grab something of his W’s last minute because he thought we were on shaky ground? Sadly, I always find myself leaning towards the shrewder. It sucks because 1) I thought MM and our R were so much better and different than that and 2) the thought of MM (as I thought I knew him) no longer makes me smile. I know MM will tell me whatever truths or lies he feels necessary to either protect or benefit himself. Comparatively, not that different from his M. It really has been a huge detriment to the R that I don’t think can be undone.

How long have you been with MM skylarblue?

[Fallen Angel]

My original question was pretty much, do AP's pretty much let it all slide, not whether they believe there are lies told to themselves.

 

To answer your original question.. NO, I would not "let it slide" if I caught him in a lie to me.

 

My sweetheart "lied by ommission" about his maritial status to me for quite some time. When I found out I was devestated. I told him then, and I meant every word, that there are few things I am unable to forgive. Lying to me is one of those few things. To my knowledge he has been honest with me since.

 

Mombot doesnt it bother you that he lies to you? Its not good and its not going to change unless you call him on it. Casual lies are not acceptable if you want anything more than an affair.

 

I agree. However if all you are interested in is an affair Mombot, then continue to allow him to tell his lies in order to keep the peace. *shrug*

 

I think most APs believe they are being told the truth.

 

I think most people in any relationship believe they are being told the truth. Otherwise, what point is there in being in the relationship at all? If you do not trust your partner, you should not be with your partner!

 

I do not think this is a phenomenon that applies only to APs.

 

A fBW who is reconciling her marriage believes her husband is telling her the truth, otherwise her marriage would not be reconciling. Correct?

 

To attempt to apply such a statement only to APs is unworthy of your normal responses FOG.

[TOWinNYC]

My original question was pretty much, do AP's pretty much let it all slide, not whether they believe there are lies told to themselves.

 

I can honestly say that I never "let it slide" - what I will say is that whatever was going on in his life, I didn't particularly CARE to know or care to find out (ie ask questions) and the "lies of omission" didn't matter (and it really didn't matter for years and years)....until it did.

[TOWinNYC]

I think most people in any relationship believe they are being told the truth. Otherwise, what point is there in being in the relationship at all? If you do not trust your partner, you should not be with your partner!

 

I do not think this is a phenomenon that applies only to APs.

 

A fBW who is reconciling her marriage believes her husband is telling her the truth, otherwise her marriage would not be reconciling. Correct?

 

To attempt to apply such a statement only to APs is unworthy of your normal responses FOG.

 

Ooooh Fallen Angel - EXCELLENT RESPONSE!!!

[mourningMM]

But really, most AP have blinders on about themselves; most, not all. They to themselves as well as their AP and their BS. Honesty tends to force growth; sometimes the growth happens in the marriage others in the affair.

 

Lies maintain a status quo and show the areas of weakness in a relationship. Facing the lies, and uncovering them takes an uncommon amount of strength and patience.

 

All people lie...in all of the colors of the rainbow between white and black. They lie for a bazillion reasons. A therapist may be able to tease out of the fiction that most of us make in our lives. Or a priest.

 

Growth hurts, people will do much to avoid giving pain to the ones that they love, as well as feeling pain.

 

Accepting the need for lies is accepting stagnation. But pressing for truth may force painful growth.

 

Be prepared and make a conscious choice. Because self-honesty is the first step. And be prepared for the possibility that your affair partner is not ready to really grow.

Edited July 6, 2010 by mourningMM

[Fieldsofgold]

To answer your original question.. NO, I would not "let it slide" if I caught him in a lie to me.

 

My sweetheart "lied by ommission" about his maritial status to me for quite some time. When I found out I was devestated. I told him then, and I meant every word, that there are few things I am unable to forgive. Lying to me is one of those few things. To my knowledge he has been honest with me since.

 

 

 

I agree. However if all you are interested in is an affair Mombot, then continue to allow him to tell his lies in order to keep the peace. *shrug*

 

 

 

I think most people in any relationship believe they are being told the truth. Otherwise, what point is there in being in the relationship at all? If you do not trust your partner, you should not be with your partner!

 

I do not think this is a phenomenon that applies only to APs.

 

A fBW who is reconciling her marriage believes her husband is telling her the truth, otherwise her marriage would not be reconciling. Correct?

 

To attempt to apply such a statement only to APs is unworthy of your normal responses FOG.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mombot

My original question was pretty much, do AP's pretty much let it all slide, not whether they believe there are lies told to themselves.

 

Mombot's question was directly referencing lies told to AP's; based on that, my answer was directed to lies told to APs. (although I did miss the direction of her question somewhat. My bad.)

 

Technically speaking, a discussion of lies told to anyone else would be, well, off topic. But nit-picking and making issues of these things is counter-productive to helping Mombot, which is why we are here.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[Mombot]

I'm not sure if I can be helped, but we all try!- I enjoy his company, the sex, I will admit is outstanding, the small details he remembers like which iced tea I like,,, blah, blah, all the elements that make you feel good. I know I'm in love with him, and have only known he was separated and not divorced for a couple months.

He doesn't have kids at home or grandkids for that matter, which would make a difference to me... selective morals?

I read the other discussions, like the MM takes you to the movies and you're taking money away from his kids. Their money is separate.

 

My husband, rest his soul, had a girlfriend for 30 years. I knew her, saw her ocaissionally, knew they hooked up now and then... and didn't care. In fact, when he was dying I paid for them to go to a fancy buffet at a 4 diamond hotel to cheer him up. I made sure she was first to called when he passed. I loved him but was never in love with him.. Was I a BS? - I guess there may be other wives out there that would want their husbands to be happy, even if not with them... I doubt it. Maybe I'm different.

 

I guess the classic thing is... is it worth it to let the situation just go on because you feel the benefits outweigh the detriments, you know he hasn't told her anything ( a lie of omission) and doesn't want to be checked up on?

[skylarblue]

How long have you been with MM skylarblue?

Nearly 6yrs

 

My original question was pretty much, do AP's pretty much let it all slide, not whether they believe there are lies told to themselves…is it worth it to let the situation just go on because you feel the benefits outweigh the detriments

 

Yes, I pretty much let EVERYTHING slide when it comes to MM. The “benefits” of keeping quiet and not rocking the boat or nagging him (the last thing I want him to think I’m doing is nagging) hasn’t been conducive to the R at all, and in fact has only aided in its deterioration. I can definitely say for me it has been more of a detriment to the R than if I’d spoken up. MM doesn’t even know I know the truth about some of the fibs he’s told me. At first I didn’t want to confront (nag) him or embarrass him by calling him on it. Now I don’t even care (kinda). I just kinda tuck it away in his file and say to myself “you(MM) must think I’m a f*ckin’ idiot” and/or “ok, I see how you want to play”. It really has caused me to not feel quite the same about him. Maybe not dismissing things would have steered him towards being more truthful, knowing I recognize when he’s not and going to call him on it and/or not put up with it. So often I want to say “why did/would you lie to me about that?” It’s just really disappointing thinking someone you have so much loyalty to isn’t anteing up. So in short, the so-called “benefits” of letting it slide didn’t pay off.

[Fieldsofgold]

Nearly 6yrs

 

 

 

Yes, I pretty much let EVERYTHING slide when it comes to MM. The “benefits” of keeping quiet and not rocking the boat or nagging him (the last thing I want him to think I’m doing is nagging) hasn’t been conducive to the R at all, and in fact has only aided in its deterioration. I can definitely say for me it has been more of a detriment to the R than if I’d spoken up. MM doesn’t even know I know the truth about some of the fibs he’s told me. At first I didn’t want to confront (nag) him or embarrass him by calling him on it. Now I don’t even care (kinda). I just kinda tuck it away in his file and say to myself “you(MM) must think I’m a f*ckin’ idiot” and/or “ok, I see how you want to play”. It really has caused me to not feel quite the same about him. Maybe not dismissing things would have steered him towards being more truthful, knowing I recognize when he’s not and going to call him on it and/or not put up with it. So often I want to say “why did/would you lie to me about that?” It’s just really disappointing thinking someone you have so much loyalty to isn’t anteing up. So in short, the so-called “benefits” of letting it slide didn’t pay off.

 

That's a very interesting point. The very thing you did to avoid problems has now allowed there to be problems. I think that's a lesson that could be applied to many areas.

[Owl]

I was alittle confused by this- never been with a MM before this separated one.

 

My apologies, Mombot. The confusion was because the post you were confused by was in reply to Owoman's response to a comment I'd made. It wasn't directly a response to you.

 

Sorry for the confusion, Mombot.

[OWoman]

My apologies, Mombot. The confusion was because the post you were confused by was in reply to Owoman's response to a comment I'd made. It wasn't directly a response to you.

 

...which I missed. I'll go back and read it

[OWoman]

Did you miss the "a lot of" part of my comment?????????

 

You're trying to make it sound like your deliberate seeking out of MM for sexual fun is the "norm" amongst OW. From all that I've seen here...it's not. It's not even close to the "norm". Some of them may seek out MM one time for a "physical only" affair, and then find themselves embroiled in an emotional relationship (similar to you, only you repeated the process many times before the emotional side caught up with you). The majority seem to go the other way...they START as emotional affairs that eventually go physical.

 

Realize when I say "most other women" or "a lot of other women"...I'm probably not referring in any fashion to the very few cases that run like yours or Lizzie's. I'm referring to the most common situation we see...women who end up in an emotional affair with one married man...not women who spend a lot of time seeking out various MM for 'fun'. You ended up in an emotional relationship...but that wasn't what you sought out or expected when you were seeing all of the previous MM's.

 

And for one final thought...if any of those other MM you were with thought for a moment that there WAS a need to lie to you (because they felt that there was an emotional attachment, etc...)...yep, I'd bet that they would have lied to you in a heartbeat.

 

Hmmm.... reading this response kind of confirms my initial response on reading the post I was responding to - that the "a lot" meant, "all those OWs who are not OWoman and Lizzie, who everyone knows are / were only in it to get their rocks off". Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I seriously doubt that every OW on the planet who is not a OWoman / Lizzie clone is lied to in the way that was inferred. That certainly doesn't gel with my experience (and I'm not only talking about my own direct experience from my own As, I'm talking also about those As I've been close enough to observe in my family, among my friends and colleagues. Sure, some WSs lie to their APs. But many don't. They may - and probably do - lie to their BSs, I've not seen any "lying by commission" though I have of course witnessed "lying by omission" which may or may not be as bad, depending on your view.

 

For at least some WSs out there, the A represents a "safe space" where they feel they can truly be themselves inside a little bubble, away from pressures and expectations and demands and roles. Sure, that may be naive, or short-lived (if the AP starts with their ow expectations, pressurs and demands) but for at least some WSs, that is part of the allure of the A - having the freedom just to be themselves, rather than husband / wife / breadwinner / parent / mechanic / handyman / gardener / cook / cleaner / nanny / etc.

 

 

I'm kind of surprised at your response. You're usually not one to pick one thing and try to exaggerate it out of proportion (he'll lie all the time then). You're normally someone that I'd expect a reasoned out response from.

 

My tone may have been off - for which apologies - but I do stand by the gist of my point: it's not only wackos like myself (and possibly Lizzie if you consider her one too) who escape the Inevitability of The Lying MM. Some MMs lie to their OWs, others don't. Some may lie about big things (like being M) and others may lie only about small things ("to spare her feelings") and others may have ceased to be able to distinguish fact from fantasy and may themselves believe their "lies", but not all MMs lie to all OWs (or all MWs to all OMs).

[Owl]

I've not called you nor Lizzie a "whacko" or any other name.

 

All I've stated is that your situation is generally different from the majority of the rest of the "other women" who post here.

 

You sought out MM for a single purpose. Most of the other OW here did not.

 

That changes the emotional dynamics of the 'relationships'...considerably.

 

And that's not LIMITED to you or her...obviously there ARE other women out there who do the same. But, I stand by my viewpoint that this is a pretty small minority overall, and that approaching an affair(s) from that viewpoint greatly changes the emotional aspects of the relationships for all parties involved.

 

The "normal" lies that MM usually have to employ to maintain a relationship typically aren't required in situations like yours. Your expectations of them are different than those of other OW who are seeking a long term relationship with the MM.

 

It's pretty much that simple, and no "name calling" was implied or required.

[Mombot]

So, what you're saying is- in order to accept the MM, you should look at it like you looked for that situation and treat it like a game or a way to accept all the lies/omissions?

[Fieldsofgold]

So, what you're saying is- in order to accept the MM, you should look at it like you looked for that situation and treat it like a game or a way to accept all the lies/omissions?

 

Respect in a relationship is always a big issue to me. I think if I were in an A and I noticed lies, I would have to decide if it violated my 'respect' boundaries. If I felt disrespected, as a person, by it then I could not/would not tolerate it. If it didn't bother me, I would let it go. I think at some level it bothers you, and that is why we have this thread. To me, lying about anything other than the occasional compliment, is unacceptable. For me, it colors the whole relationship and adds implications that I would not like. But then again, if you are getting everything you want out of the A, then honesty is a moot point. But if you value closeness, emotional intimacy and trust with your A partner, if those things are important to you, I think I'd have to deal with the lies. One thing is for sure, I think lying to you won't enhance your relationship in any real positive way.

[fooled once]

THe problem with this thread is that it is all about 'how to manage the MM when he regularly tells us lies'. Shouldn't you be getting super angry that he lies? Shouldn't you be dating a guy that doesn't lie to you?

 

The problem with a guy lying to you is that he doesn't respect you enough to tell you the truth. That means he doesn't value you very much, no matter what stories he tells you.

 

I agree. I don't do lies. If I found out my H was lying to me about where he was, who he was with, etc., it would be a breech of the trust we have established.

 

Dexter, are you a BS? A real bitter one?

 

WHY does this get said when people don't like someone's response? Why?

 

I think most APs believe they are being told the truth.

 

Respect in a relationship is always a big issue to me. I think if I were in an A and I noticed lies, I would have to decide if it violated my 'respect' boundaries. If I felt disrespected, as a person, by it then I could not/would not tolerate it. If it didn't bother me, I would let it go. I think at some level it bothers you, and that is why we have this thread. To me, lying about anything other than the occasional compliment, is unacceptable. For me, it colors the whole relationship and adds implications that I would not like. But then again, if you are getting everything you want out of the A, then honesty is a moot point. But if you value closeness, emotional intimacy and trust with your A partner, if those things are important to you, I think I'd have to deal with the lies. One thing is for sure, I think lying to you won't enhance your relationship in any real positive way.

 

Completely agree!!

[Mombot]

I don't think most MM/MW involved in an affair are going to tell their spouse about it.