White Liar

[Trimmer]

I was going to let this go as off-topic, but since the topic is MPs lying to APs, I suppose it actually fits...

To answer your original question.. NO, I would not "let it slide" if I caught him in a lie to me.

 

My sweetheart "lied by ommission" about his maritial status to me for quite some time. When I found out I was devestated. I told him then, and I meant every word, that there are few things I am unable to forgive. Lying to me is one of those few things. To my knowledge he has been honest with me since.

So are saying that if he lied to you, you wouldn't let it slide, that you wouldn't be able to forgive, but then when it actually happened, you let it slide and forgave him?

 

Doesn't this put you in a bit of a precarious position? A very mixed message? Like, OK, but if you do it again, I'm really really going to do something. Really. Seriously. Next time.... Really.

[Fieldsofgold]

I don't think most MM/MW involved in an affair are going to tell their spouse about it.

 

Did I misunderstand? I thought the question was about him telling white lies to you? Or more generally, about MM lying to AP.

 

Yes, I would imagine most MM lie to the W. Unless they want to exit the M.

[Fallen Angel]

I was going to let this go as off-topic, but since the topic is MPs lying to APs, I suppose it actually fits...

 

So are saying that if he lied to you, you wouldn't let it slide, that you wouldn't be able to forgive, but then when it actually happened, you let it slide and forgave him?

 

Doesn't this put you in a bit of a precarious position? A very mixed message? Like, OK, but if you do it again, I'm really really going to do something. Really. Seriously. Next time.... Really.

 

No, that is not how it happened. He lied by ommission about his maritial status. When I found out I chose to stay in the relationship, but I told him that if he ever lied to me again, I would be done. Simple.

 

It does not put me in a precarious position at all, because if I found out he was lying to me (even by ommission) again I would walk away and never look back. To my knowledge he has been honest with me since, and to my knowledge that is all he has lied to me about.

 

Since I told him that lying was not something I would accept, he hasn't lied to me.

 

People do not know your boundaries until you set them, I have set mine, and he has not crossed them.

[Trimmer]

No, that is not how it happened. He lied by ommission about his maritial status. When I found out I chose to stay in the relationship, but I told him that if he ever lied to me again, I would be done. Simple.

 

It does not put me in a precarious position at all, because if I found out he was lying to me (even by ommission) again I would walk away and never look back. To my knowledge he has been honest with me since, and to my knowledge that is all he has lied to me about.

 

Since I told him that lying was not something I would accept, he hasn't lied to me.

 

People do not know your boundaries until you set them, I have set mine, and he has not crossed them.

I hear you and I understand. I'm just wondering if you would truly stick to those boundaries. (and I truly mean this with respect, I'm not scrapping for a fight...) If being lied to is so fundamentally unacceptable to you, then does it make a difference whether you've explicitly laid down that boundary or not? Isn't the issue, what his lie tells you about him in the first place, irrespective of whether you've discussed that lying is unacceptable?

 

From another angle: I can think of some things that would be relationship deal breakers for me, not because they needed to be negotiated and understood between the parties, but because they are fundamental character issues that I would not accept in a partner. I won't make a specific list because I don't want this to degenerate into picking apart "well, one lie isn't as bad as issue X..."

 

But just imagine a broad, continuous spectrum... On one end, you have all those little things, behaviors, that you negotiate that are no big deal - putting the cap on the toothpaste, putting laundry in the basket instead of dropping it on the floor... Then we progress up into more substantial behaviors: interacting, even when under stress, in a respectful way - which might still need some discussion and mutual "training" to work out. Far at the other end of the spectrum are things that are non-negotiable deal-breakers that you don't expect to have to explicitly discuss as "off-limits". You've got a list of those; we all do.

 

Somewhere along that spectrum is the substantial lie - like, let's say, not revealing the truth of his marital status as he was actively pursuing a relationship with you. For me, I think that would be a fundamental deal breaker, whether the "unacceptability of lying" had been laid down or not.

 

I understand and accept that this was not a dealbreaker for you, and like I said, I'm not trying to poke at you or convince you that you should be different; it was just a thought process I wanted to share.

 

But it does beg the question: as you get more and more attached, is it possible that the time may come and the situation may present itself where he might need to risk another lie - maybe not as big, but another one? After all, the more involved you become, you wouldn't throw it all away for a kinda-not-so-huge lie, right? After all, you didn't dump him for that first one, and that was a pretty big one... He knows you let him slide on the first one. I wonder if he's got a threshold of a minor-kinda-lie somewhere where he would figure you wouldn't dump him. Really think about it: as you become more and more attached to the relatoinship, might he be right?

 

Question to the group (and I fully expect people may have different opinions, we don't have to beat each other up trying to get the One Right Answer...) If a substantial lie is unacceptable (say a lie about one's true marital status), for you, is that unacceptable because your partner has broken an agreement that you made that you would not lie to each other, or is it just fundamentally unacceptable, irrespective of any rules explicitly laid down.

[turnstone]

Trimmer, for me its unacceptable full stop. At one time it wouldn't have been a complete deal breaker, I would have thought "Oh! He must really love me if he's prepared to cheat on his wife" But that would have been pure arrogance and ignorance born out of youth.

 

There are many behaviors that are unacceptable for me and part of the reason for being in a relationship with anyone is that I don't have to teach them what they are.

[pureinheart]

He went home out of state and will be back here on Friday. We talk quite a bit on the phone, and and I've heard him tell lies (like the city he's in) to the BS when he's talked to her.. I noticed a big hole in his story about going to his sister's, and I know he took her but left that all out of the conversation. I always just let it all go because I like him so much.

I'm sure he will have a gift or two when he arrives, will smile sweetly and like always, I'll say to myself, what the heck. Do you ever do that?

 

Hi MB,

 

Yes, I do it all the time, in all situations. I am of the opinion that everybody lies. I used to get really hurt and shocked, but not anymore.

[Owl]

So, what you're saying is- in order to accept the MM, you should look at it like you looked for that situation and treat it like a game or a way to accept all the lies/omissions?

 

I'm not saying that you "treat it like a game".

 

I am saying that you're intentionally in a relationship with a man who clearly demonstrates his willingness and ability to lie to someone very close to him for his own pleasure/wants.

 

You should expect that if he's going to/willing to/is lying to his wife for this reason...he's going to/willing to/is lying to you when he feels it's needed/warranted in order to allow him to maintain the affair.

 

If he thinks that he needs to lie to you about the conditions of his marriage to gain your sympathy, tell you that he's not 'sleeping' with his wife so that you'll be ok with sleeping with him, if he needs to convince you that your relationship is much, much more important to him than his marriage/family so that you continue to accept being in the affair...........odds are, he's going to do so without reservation.

 

In circumstances where there are no emotional expectations set...where it's a deliberate "physical only" situation clearly outlined by the OW/OM and accepted by the WS....the 'need' to lie to maintain that relationship is much less. That's why I suggested that Owoman's situation where she was deliberately in this kind of relationship several times with subsequent MM didn't require those "lies" as much as a "normal" affair relationship that hinges around an emotional relationship instead.

 

She doesn't expect the lies...and since there's no expectations of any kind of interaction other than the physical...she's less likely to be lied to by the MM.

[Woman In Blue]

People do not know your boundaries until you set them, I have set mine, and he has not crossed them.

Damn. Does anyone really need to "learn someone's boundaries" FIRST in order to know that scamming them - by LYING about their marital status - is wrong????

 

I'm absolutely amazed how some of us can accept - and actually justfiy - a deception of this proportion perpetrated on us. I honestly am.

[NoIDidn't]

Question to the group (and I fully expect people may have different opinions, we don't have to beat each other up trying to get the One Right Answer...) If a substantial lie is unacceptable (say a lie about one's true marital status), for you, is that unacceptable because your partner has broken an agreement that you made that you would not lie to each other, or is it just fundamentally unacceptable, irrespective of any rules explicitly laid down.

 

For me, there are some things that are simply unacceptable, whether we discussed them before or not. And, the truth is, its the same for the person that's trying to get one over on you. The MM that does not reveal his marital status does so because he knows that the woman is not likely to accept what he is asking for without some level of deception on his part. He wants her to get hooked.

 

Not to harp on the issue of lying about marital status, but the guy (those that do it, not being specific to FA or GEL, or anyone else) did it to get past the initial defenses most have against being the OW. And it they get away with that, they just start to build on the lies. It all culminates into a big "well, you know my obligations" (that he's married and it was accepted), or "I didn't want to hurt you" (by telling the truth about activities done with W because they are married). And so on.

 

I would outright walk if my major boundary had been crossed because I've let things slide before and ended up wishing I'd followed my gut instinct the first time. Discussion about it beforehand or not. Because I've seen how those little slights continue to add up until the R isn't worth the trouble anymore.

[NoIDidn't]

Damn. Does anyone really need to "learn someone's boundaries" FIRST in order to know that scamming them - by LYING about their marital status - is wrong????

 

I'm absolutely amazed how some of us can accept - and actually justfiy - a deception of this proportion perpetrated on us. I honestly am.

 

I just said as much in my previous post. These guys know that lying is wrong, but they do as part of "grooming" them for the bigger lies.

 

No one needs to "learn [your] boundaries" to know that lying about anything major is not acceptable. And accepting it only gives them the idea that you will accept anything from them and still let them come around. And maybe that works out in an OW's favor if the guy is weighing the option of W with firm boundaries (don't cheat on me or face the consequences up to and including divorce) vs. OW without firm boundaries (she knows I'm married and accepts me, warts and all, in a twisted kinda way).

[Mimolicious]

What about people sometimes are natural born liars?! They lie to everyone, even to themselves. I guess it all the depends of the type of person that you are dealing with. Yes, I do believe the whole "If he lies to his W he is lying to OW" because I have seen it first hand. My exH is a 'Lying Master'. He lies to my kids, his parents and yes, he lies to his now OW-GF. He's done it right in front of me. She doesn't think so. She thinks that she is the baddest bitch alive (her own words) and the he would never lie to her but I guess she has to think something to make herself sleep at night. That's them though. My sucka-o-meter reached its max capacity for his lies years ago. LOL!

 

It comes down to what you are willing to accept and what soothes you. Just don't be blind to the fact that he may lie to you too. You are the only one that knows who you are dealing with. You can tell if in fact, you are that one living soul that he can be totally honest to or if he just lies to everyone.

 

Another thing- (and this is in general) Please make sure that when you are within a group of people that know your SO, you don't say things as: "My H/W, MM/MW, SO, would never do X,Y and Z to me". It's tough for others to put their "poker face" on when they know the truth and don't. Sounds naive and stupid. Breaks my heart to hear my friends say this when in fact I know they are being lied to .

[fooled once]

Excellent point Mimo.

 

I mean, many MM lie not only to their wives, but their kids too. They lie to co-workers, family members, friends, neighbors, etc. But from what I read on here, they don't lie to the OW they tell HER the truth. Which I too have a hard time believing since he has no problem lying to those that he loves (at least at one time).

[jthorne]

Damn. Does anyone really need to "learn someone's boundaries" FIRST in order to know that scamming them - by LYING about their marital status - is wrong????

 

I'm absolutely amazed how some of us can accept - and actually justfiy - a deception of this proportion perpetrated on us. I honestly am.

And isn't this, by default, saying that it is okay to remain married? Doesn't this send the message that this is what they are willing to accept?

[pureinheart]

What about people sometimes are natural born liars?! They lie to everyone, even to themselves. I guess it all the depends of the type of person that you are dealing with. Yes, I do believe the whole "If he lies to his W he is lying to OW" because I have seen it first hand. My exH is a 'Lying Master'. He lies to my kids, his parents and yes, he lies to his now OW-GF. He's done it right in front of me. She doesn't think so. She thinks that she is the baddest bitch alive (her own words) and the he would never lie to her but I guess she has to think something to make herself sleep at night. That's them though. My sucka-o-meter reached its max capacity for his lies years ago. LOL!

 

It comes down to what you are willing to accept and what soothes you. Just don't be blind to the fact that he may lie to you too. You are the only one that knows who you are dealing with. You can tell if in fact, you are that one living soul that he can be totally honest to or if he just lies to everyone.

 

Another thing- (and this is in general) Please make sure that when you are within a group of people that know your SO, you don't say things as: "My H/W, MM/MW, SO, would never do X,Y and Z to me". It's tough for others to put their "poker face" on when they know the truth and don't. Sounds naive and stupid. Breaks my heart to hear my friends say this when in fact I know they are being lied to .

 

*Saying you in general* or (bold) you might lie to someone, the government, IRS, 'no, tell them I'm not here' (causing someone else to lie for you) etc...

 

In a perfect world we could eradicate all lying, although the first thing I used to ask is "why"...why did I lie, why did you lie?

 

In some cases people have to lie...and could this be the reason for lying to begin with, that "you can't handle the truth". *Not you in the sense of "you"*

 

Governments lie all of the time, although I don't see the outrage that I do over other matters, and governments are at times calling for the extermination of human beings...I just don't get it.

[pureinheart]

Damn. Does anyone really need to "learn someone's boundaries" FIRST in order to know that scamming them - by LYING about their marital status - is wrong????

 

I'm absolutely amazed how some of us can accept - and actually justfiy - a deception of this proportion perpetrated on us. I honestly am.

 

Jennie (in another thread) said it perfectly, that in comparison, the A was a baby game.

 

You would be surprised what is actually going on out there that you have no idea about...or possibly the knowledge is there, yet turning a blind eye.

[Mombot]

How exactly do you call the WS on his lying? Just say, I know better, you slept with your W last time you were together, so don't tell me a story?

[pureinheart]

How exactly do you call the WS on his lying? Just say, I know better, you slept with your W last time you were together, so don't tell me a story?

 

He might say, "ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies".

 

I know in my heart what the truth is in most cases and senarios...if not, 9 times out of ten the truth is revealed in one form or another.

 

What was a hard thing for me to overcome was having to know the truth and pointing fingers in the process and this concerns every matter. I had to let go and do the right thing trusting that even though I was not above reproach, God had my back:) and still does no matter what.

[Mombot]

Maybe you have a better sense of omission or lies than I do- I could not tell as he was always working away from his home city that he was not divorced. I am noticing the other oddnesses a little better now.

[Dexter Morgan]

Did I misunderstand? I thought the question was about him telling white lies to you? Or more generally, about MM lying to AP.

 

Yes, I would imagine most MM lie to the W. Unless they want to exit the M.

 

cheaters are liars by default. why would "white lies" surprise anyone?

[Dexter Morgan]

Hi MB,

 

Yes, I do it all the time, in all situations. I am of the opinion that everybody lies.

 

everyone tells little "white lies" from time to time that don't mean anything.

 

but the lies to which this thread refers aren't little nor "white". and not everyone tells those kind of lies.

[Dexter Morgan]

How exactly do you call the WS on his lying? Just say, I know better, you slept with your W last time you were together, so don't tell me a story?

 

uh, he is married to her, of course he is going to have sex with her whether he wants to have an orgasm, or simply keeping up appearances.

 

you are messing around with a married man, what do you care if he is sleeping with his wife? perish the thought.