Is Slutty Behaviour of Value

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by subtitled

individuality and freedom of choice have meant that i haven't felt at any point pressured into falling into mainstream habits that you have identified as the 'mtv generations' way of doing things.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but I assert that you are not counter-culture, but that you are mainstream. The MTV Generation is a minority, who appears on TV. It's better to show the "shocking" side of the youth than to show that we're pretty much like the generations before us. I regret that adults are falling into this media trap, but there's nothing I can do about it, how can the true mainstream get their point across? except maybe drop my pants and hope to get some airtime, so that we can have some time to explain.

[subtitled]

yeh, i agree with you.

 

I would say that most people are like you or i at heart but are influenced by an extreme minority (as shown on MTV) and encouraged to disguise themselves as something similarly extreme because it gets attention. I would say i haven't been influenced by this extreme minority as heavily as others, im guessing you would say the same.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by subtitled

im guessing you would say the same.

 

certainly

[Charley]

if our generation is seen as slutty, and the people a bit younger than us are worse, what will OUR kids be like??!!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Charley

if our generation is seen as slutty, and the people a bit younger than us are worse, what will OUR kids be like??!!

Careful with that "be like"--what you should say is "seen like", because our generation is SEEN as slutty, and one should not ascertain that makes them sluts.

 

When we look back at the generations younger than us, we'll no longer be under the microscope, we'll be the nerdy guy looking into it. I hope that I'm not going to be so prejudicial as to judge the youth by what I see on sensationalist television, but you never know. As for MY kids, they'll kick ass, don't worry.

[lilvoyce7321]

>Have society's values been so restructured that, to behave the way only a drunken slut would have 30 years ago, makes a girls cool<

 

I think so..... It is a shame that these girls do not respect their bodies..

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by lilvoyce7321

I think so..... It is a shame that these girls do not respect their bodies..

 

Who are "these" girls? Girls you saw on MTV? Girls who you see at the mall likely *trying* to shock you?

 

Did your parents not look at your generation and find plenty of "these" girls? What about the millions of adult women who don't respect their bodies, who drink, do drugs, sell themselves, dress down, etc.--With examples like this, can we really blame the MTV generation?

[lilvoyce7321]

First question..........do you have any girls? Second question do you have any pre-teens? If so have you had to go clothing shopping with them??? Try and find conservative clothes for a twelve year old. Or try looking for knee length shorts to put you kid in that is required by the school my daughter was attending..ha

 

Things are a lot different today. I didn't have to worry about my children seeing smut at an all american football game. Sure....smut has beeen around forever........but back then we had a choice on whether or not we wanted to see it or not.....just my two cents

[Errol]

Until you have teenagers yourself you cannot know how easy it is to talk about, and how downright difficult it is to DO! They come home with ideas that they get from song lyrics, other kids, movies, books, TV --- the same basic sources that we got our ideas from. Some of them get their ideas from church or religious or 'morality' groups. I'm not a religious person, but I'm very glad to have some religious groups still fighting for the moral values that I hold myself to and which I insist my children understand and at least try to hold themselves to.

 

The argument about males not being held to the same standard of sexual conduct as females has been around for many, many generations---this is not something new that your generation just thought of. Neither is what constitutes slutty behavior or attitudes.

 

Yes, I partially hold responsible the media's influence on my children's moral values and confusion and decision making skills. Kids are pressured by other kids AND by what they see, hear, and read in the media. TV, Movies, Music. Because we can connect with all parts of the world now, we are all exposed to so much more than any generation previous. That is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but it contains many harmful elements. I watched MTV in the 80's when it first started out and I enjoyed it. I won't allow it in the house now because it is pornographic. It is violent, stimulates violent and loose sexual behavior, and overall is a negative influence on decent morals. It's too bad, because within all the crap that is aired, there are some artists who have produced some good songs and music.

 

No, I don't believe that mainstream America is like the MTV generation. There is a middle ground.

 

Yes - shopping for clothes! When they got back from shopping for school clothes last fall they insisted on showing me what they bought. They want to fit in with their peers and I understand that, but there is something called age-appropriate-attire in schools. Along with these items, the stores carry some very sexy clothing for very young kids. I don't care if the six year old next door is wearing a thong -- my grade school kids will not be! I couldn't believe it when my spouse told me they have thong underwear with cartoon characters on them for grade school children!! The saddest thing is that people buy them! -- so there I do also hold the parents responsible -- but it's not an either/or situation -- the responsibility for the corruption or evolution (depends on what and how you want to look at it) of our new generations and society is everyone's responsibility.

[Leikela]

Did your parents not look at your generation and find plenty of "these" girls?

 

This comment sparked something in my mind. I'm 27 and grew up in the late 80's and early 90's and YES, some girls did dress that way back then. The difference back then was that they were looked down upon. They were called names and made to feel different, because essentially, they were. Now a days, it's the "norm" to dress what way, so kids are expected to dress more revealing. I bet the kid that comes to school today dressed conservatively is the one to get made fun of.

[Errol]

I wish all schools had uniforms. It would be less expensive for the parents and the kids would all be dressed the same so there would be less competition. *sigh*

[quickmorph]

As someone grew up in the 60's, it's kind of interesting to hear reactions to the current environment. I've got 3 teenage kids so I'm well aware of the lassiz-faire attitude in the media and fashion these days. But, if you think things are kind of out of control now, my guess is that you weren't around in 1968.

 

A lot of us threw out ALL of the rules back then...the good with the bad. Sex was an expected activity...if you were part of the new culture you were supposed to do everything that the "straights" thought was wrong. Most women didn't wear bras, sheer tops and see-throughs were common. Nudity was no big deal...when you swam you took off your clothes. Period. And the drugs...well, that's a whole other topic, put I think most people know that there were there constantly.

 

Not all of this was good, some was downright dangerous. A helluva lot of my friends never made it to 50. But I think it's helpful to keep a little perspective. As much as things may seem like they're spinning out of control now, there was a time (not that long ago for some) which it was all much crazier.

[Cpunch75]

yeah but the drugs back then weren't nearly as potent as they are now. Drugs now-a-days are accepted as something you have to do to be elevated up to higher social circles.

 

and what do you mean by Cristina A. being canned by media because of her deviant behavior? the only person she's being canned is by Britney spears who I see on tv virtually every night displaying her every romantic move and where she went to the bathroom and the lucky guy that picked up the paper towel she used to dry her hands and is selling it for 3 million dollars:)

[Errol]

Originally posted by Cpunch75

yeah but the drugs back then weren't nearly as potent as they are now. Drugs now-a-days are accepted as something you have to do to be elevated up to higher social circles.

 

! Yes they most certainly were as "potent" as they are now. !

 

As for being elevated to a higher social circle -- by whom? Drug abuse/use is NOT accepted or acceptable except by those who are hooked on them. Are you talking about "society drugs" like valium? There are classes of drugs -- certain groups of drugs that are use by one group more than another, but its still illegal drug use and/or abuse--it's just the cost of the drugs that varies and the source.

 

I fight this with my kids -- they have been inundated with drug information (pro and con) and see it in school and in social situations. Drug abuse is everywhere and when people are bombarded with it all the time they become desensitized to it and begin to accept it as mainstream or a right-of-passage type of thing and then begin to think that trying or using drugs is EXPECTED of them at some point. It is not. It never has been. Not everyone - even within a 'counter culture' group conforms totally. I was in college in the 60's. I was very active in SDS for a while, and I was part of the 'in' group-- the clothes, the music, the attitude. At parties and political rally's, etc. there was always people smoking pot, and usually people 'doing' some other drugs. I was offered many times and I always refused. Believe it or not there are former hippies who did not participate in drugs! There are kids today who can participate in much of the lifestyle and still choose to not participate in drug use and STILL be a part of the in-crowd.

[Cpunch75]

"Drug abuse is everywhere and when people are bombarded with it all the time they become desensitized to it and begin to accept it as mainstream or a right-of-passage type of thing and then begin to think that trying or using drugs is EXPECTED of them at some point"

 

Tell me about it.

All i'm saying is that people today have no reasoning ability to step back and say, Do I really need to do this just to be accepted? The majority of what people are doing is not neccesarily RIGHT, and that's the problem, media and other influences are telling kids whats cool and whats not. Social acceptance is a number one priority for kids because it justifies their existience. There aren't other influences that nearly equal to that of MTV, it's the dominant influence.

 

"Believe it or not there are former hippies who did not participate in drugs! There are kids today who can participate in much of the lifestyle and still choose to not participate in drug use and STILL be a part of the in-crowd."

 

True, i hear that, but as with any group dynamic, those who don't fully participate are often eventually ostracized b/c they don't snort or smoke up when offered or engage any activity with what the lifestyle is associated with.

youre either in or youre out, how can someone be in a lifestyle if they don't participate with what the lifestyle is identified as???

[quickmorph]

Not as potent? Aside from the fact that pot is stronger I don't think so. The acid, coke, pcp, heroin, seconal, quaaludes, and god knows what else were all just as strong as anything you can find now. And if the pot wasn't as strong, well we'd smoke a whole joint, where just a couple tokes is plenty now.

 

I take my kids to concerts once in a while and am amazed at the difference. A rock concert in 1969 had a heavy cloud of reefer smoke hanging over it and underneath it were people that were so totally blitzed on you-name-it that they were reduced to jabbering ninnies. Maybe the kids in the mosh-pit today are flying on X but they can still walk and talk straight.

 

To tell you the truth, I'd rather my college-age son were firing up a spliff once in a while instead of tearing into a six-pack. The biggest drug of abuse is (and probably always will be) booze. All other forms of drug abuse are light weights compared to that stuff.

[quickmorph]

A correction....light weights in terms of being common. Obviously a heroin or crank habit can be just as bad as alcoholism.

[subtitled]

Originally posted by Errol

Until you have teenagers yourself you cannot know how easy it is to talk about, and how downright difficult it is to DO! They come home with ideas that they get from song lyrics, other kids, movies, books, TV --- the same basic sources that we got our ideas from.

 

That's a valid argument except that i AM a teenage girl (17), and these forces (images on tv, in lyrics, books, other kids.. etc.) are acting upon me too, but i haven't fallen prey to them.

I can understand why it is hard for parents because you're one influence against a plethora of others, and you are an influence that is often disrespected/disregarded by your kids.... BUT deep down, don't you think your parents have THE most important influence on your development? They form your basic social circle since the day you are born and their role is to nurture you. Teenagers are the best at pretending their parents mean nothing to them. The truth is your parents mean alot. What your parents say can stab you in the heart and you will never let them know this.

 

I think as a parent you should make your kids unafraid of being different by displaying this trait yourself, and supporting them no matter who they are or what they are. Don't givethem extra attention for dressing like 'a skank', just value them for what is inside... and doing this from the day they are born, then by the time they are a teenager, surely they should feel less of an inclination to follow the most popular and degrading image of the times?

 

i guess you're right, it's much easier said than done.. but most things are like that.

 

hmm im not looking forward to the challenges of parenting.

 

*on edit: i went to a private girls school in Australia, where you wear a uniform (you do in all Aussie schools), it was a good equaliser in theory, but even then people start to break rules and personalise their uniform (undoing their top button, removing their tie, hitching their skirt) and there are always aspects of this that form part of what is considered cool, so having a uniform is not always the perfect solution.

[Pookette]

I'm 24 and I agree that things are getting out of control. To me, the only blame that should be laid is on the shoulders of the parents that buy the children the clothing that makes them look like this. Or raising them in a way that says it is ok to look like a prostitute. Whatever.

 

To an extent, pop culture is to blame as well. For example, the obvious Britney or Christina. They started out somewhat sweet and wholesome, but someone along the line told them "sex sells" All their fans will try to emulate them, much like the Beatles' "mop tops" back in the day. Some of the role models today leave a lot to be desired.

 

When I was growing up, it was rolling your jeans and Hypercolor shirts. Some of my role models were Mary Lou Retton and Claire Huxtable. I guess looking back on it, the '80's and '90's weren't that bad...

[Dug]

Wow....what a flurry of interesting posts.

 

 

I have a 17yr old daughter and understand what many of you are saying. Isn't it a tradgety that we as parents have come to rely on and blame the media for the values our kids have or don't have ? It isn't the American way to accept responsibiltity for many orf our actions anymore. It has become easier to blame behavior on having been forced to eat oatmeal as a child or some other equally lame excuse. If "we" bring them into this world, they are our responsibility...not Britney Spear's, MTV, VH1 or whoever.

 

Also....slutty behavior isn't good no matter what. If you give the proverbial "knight in shining armor" a blank sheet of paper to list the attributes of his dream woman..."slut' isn't gonna be on the list. If anyone, guy or girl engages in inappropriate behavior, they run the risk of losing the one they want the most and getting trapped in a lifestyle they will detest as they grow older. Just talk to the 30yr old women who find that tattoos which were cool in college are keeping them from getting high profile corporate jobs etc because of "image". Do you think that the "babes" from "Girls Gone Wild" will ever have any regrets?

[jenny]

what an interesting thread. why not be more concerned about the rise in violent behaviour and crime among youth, which is more quantifiable, more exigent, and less prone to relying on inflammatory gender-based terms for its extrapolation?

[jester]

Is Slutty Behaviour of Value

 

One person's exhibitionistic exuberance, is another person's slutty behavior. Just like erotica we dislike we label porn, a young person's sexually expressive behavior of which we disapprove we label slutty. The slut , of course, is almost always female. Women as morality targets.

 

Personally, I like sluts. Their behavior is edgy, arousing, interesting. Honest.

 

I don't see slutty young girls as leading to the decline and fall of Western Civ. I'm more concerned about the the janus-faced male adults, responsible, seemingly law abiding tax paying citizens who prey on these girls in brothels, child porn rings.

 

It's the guy in the suit, Mr. Joe Average, the filth consumer, the sex tourist, who scares me, not the college-aged girl who participates in wet tee shirt contests.

 

I'll take an honest slut any day to the mature guy in the dark raincoat, and his dark desires.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by jester

I'll take an honest slut any day to the mature guy in the dark raincoat, and his dark desires.

You're creating your own rhetorical palace to live in.

 

I'll take a severe stomach flu over malignant brain cancer any day, that doesn't make the value of severe stomach flus any greater in the realm of such a value debate.

[InmannRoshi]

I was watching "Frontline" the other night, and they were discussing the topic of marketing "cool" to teenagers. What is cool, and how do you use it to sell products to a young demographic (who seem to value cool over all else). Boys are marketed to by the "mook". Girls by the "midriffs"

 

Here's a brief synopsis ..

 

 

Seeking mooks, midriffs

 

February 27, 2001

 

BY MIKE DUFFY

FREE PRESS TV CRITIC

 

 

<removed quoted material>

 

Besides the perpetually adolscent mook, there's a female stereotype in the teen marketing machine mix. Rushkoff calls her "the midriff."

 

 

"The midriff is really just a collection of the same old sexual cliches," says Rushkoff, "but repackaged as a new kind of female empowerment. 'I am midriff, hear me roar: I am a sexual object, but I'm proud of it.' "

 

<removed quoted material>

 

 

So, slutty could be just mirroring the "midriff" character that people are sold and marketed to 24 hours a day as a desirable character to emmulate by corporations.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by InmannRoshi

So, slutty could be just mirroring the "midriff" character that people are sold and marketed to 24 hours a day as a desirable character to emmulate by corporations.

Or we could stop being so condescending, and give people credit for the responsibility they take in their own life to follow whatever path they choose.