Can we start again? Can we rebuild? Help!

[reservoirdog1]

Didn't think I'd be in this place at this point, but now I am, and it's tough. This will be kinda long.

 

W and I married almost 8 years ago. I thought we had a great marriage. We're very different people; she's a type-A, highly motivated, easily bored, go-getter. I'm more inclined to be comfortable for longer. As things developed, she tended to take the lead in organizing things to do, etc. For whatever reason, I tended to go along with this; from my perspective, it was what she liked doing. We have a 6-year-old daughter and a 2.5 year old son.

 

At the beginning of August, she sat me down and told me she'd been secretly miserable in our marriage for years, basically since the beginning, and though she had loved me back then, she'd entered the marriage with huge doubts about whether we were right for each other. She'd had one short affair during the engagement, an 8-month one that started within weeks of the wedding, and another in 2000. I knew about absolutely none of this until August -- like I said, I thought we had a great marriage, and she contributed to that "illusion".

 

We tried to fix things for about 2 months, but I was really devastated and messed up and her emotional withdrawal from me had become so great by that point that she couldn't see a future for us. We went to couples counselling twice before she said she couldn't go again. We decided at the end of September to separate, and spent the next month ensuring a smooth transition for the kids' benefit. Things looked like they were over, and because I was still pretty messed up and needed to talk to people, I told my parents and my sisters about the infidelity. I needed their comfort and counsel at that point. They're now extremely pissed off at her. Several of my friends had known about parts of the infidelity for some time, but faced with a crappy set of alternatives, had confronted her with the information but not come to me. I don't blame them for not coming to me, because they were in a rotten situation. They've all been extremely supportive through all of this.

 

I also spent that month emotionally distancing myself -- sleeping on the couch, no physical contact, calling her really nasty names to myself. (If you care to check my other postings, you'll see they're a pretty accurate reflection of my ups and downs over the last few months.)

 

On November 1, I moved out. Hooked up with another woman for a few weeks. About 10 days after I moved out, W called me and begged me to come back. In a long and tearful conversation, I declined. She did that again a week later, and again I declined. However, the seed had been sown in my mind, and towards the end of November I phoned her and suggested we talk about it some more. We talked reconciliation for about a week. What finally came at the end of that week was that she said she needed to be with somebody who's more like her in order to be happy. I asked if she could compromise on that and be happy and she said she didn't think she could. That gave me some closure -- finally I understood what the problem had been, and could stop wondering, "if I'd only been a little more A or a little less B, it would have worked."

 

So, we settled into our separate existences, exchanging the kids, and trying to keep things as cordial as possible. There was mutual agreement that everything should be as smooth as possible, since in a messy divorce nobody wins except lawyers. She was having a bit of a rough time over Christmas -- her car broke down, furnace broke, big snowfall, etc.

 

Anyway... early in January, she called me one evening. After what started as a bit of a fight, I asked her what she'd really called about, and she said she wanted me to come back, that she wanted to be a family again, and that she didn't like single parenthood. We talked a lot the next day, and I basically said I couldn't -- I asked her about the fundamental incompatibility issue we'd discussed in November, but she didn't have a response. She said things like, "you didn't know me... wouldn't you like to?" And "I never valued our marriage, and that was my greatest failure." From my perspective, she was simply having a rough time coping. I told her that I hadn't heard her say "I love you, you're the only one for me, I want to be with you forever." To her credit, she didn't then turn around and say those things. But we ended the discussion with me saying it was over, and I couldn't come back. She sent me a short email in which she said, "I think we can have a good marriage. I understand how hard it must be to even contemplate this."

 

That email had stuck in my mind, like a splinter, ever since. I tried to mentally reconcile "good marriage" and "fundamental incompatibility." Since then, she'd gotten more into a relationship with another guy that she'd been seeing on a cautious basis since I moved out. I'd gotten into a relationship since mid-December with another woman. And then, last Friday, I inadvertently found out that she and the other guy were talking about maybe moving in together in several months. This, added to the questions that were already in my mind, really hurt. I was a bit of a mess this past weekend.

 

On Monday, I sent her a lengthy email. I asked her if the January request for me to come back was mostly just because she was having trouble coping, or if it was because she actually did see the possibility of a good marriage, and if so, on what basis. I also resumed going to individual counselling yesterday morning.

 

Yesterday afternoon, I got a response from W to my email. She talked about how she has been working to change herself, bring honesty into all aspects of her life, and re-examine herself and her past. She said that her unhappiness had stemmed from her inability to discuss concerns or needs -- that it was much easier to simply allow things to go on, to allow me to think everything was fine, and that led her to have flings, sometimes drink too much, and find ways to escape rather than confront the problems and deal with them. She said (which I'd heard before) that, when we got married, she saw lots of good traits in me and figured that those SHOULD be enough to make her happy, and that marriage would solve everything. Needless to say, it didn't. She said that she had realized that it wasn't my fault that I was how I was; it was her fault for not telling me what she needed so we could make it work. She said that we lacked emotional intimacy, which is a product of a total awareness of the other person and their needs, and that she never gave me that. She only let me see the "surface her" that she'd created for my benefit. She said that she feels that, if she'd had the courage to ask for what she needed, rather than hiding, things could have been different.

 

She also said that she had wanted me to be more confident, have more dreams, more spontaneity, and that together we took everything too seriously. This is a retreat from her stated idea of needing a totally different kind of person.

 

Anyway, we talked about this email later. She told me that she hadn't really tried during the two months we talked reconciliation after August, because by that point she wasn't sure she wanted to. She's had a lot of time since then to think, and feels that she wants to try.

 

So, needless to say, I'm totally confused. I miss not being a family. And yes, I do miss her, and I still have feelings for her. Something about trying again, starting over, from zero, and building a marriage from the ground up genuinely excites me. I know there are huge risks. I know I have to learn to trust her again. I know have to change some of my modes of operation, as does she. I told her that I don't want to live feeling like I'm always walking along the edge of a cliff, and that one foot wrong and she leaves, or strays, or whatever. She said that, if we can build a genuinely trusting relationship, that shouldn't be a problem, as long as we can talk about what's concerning us and what our needs are.

 

Anyway, this is really frickin' long, I know -- thanks for reading this far. I don't want to discuss this with my friends or my family, because they'll all have their own viewpoints (mostly telling me that I'm crazy for even thinking about trying again).

 

I'm hoping somebody out there has some insight to offer. Or that somebody has been through an attempt to rebuild a marriage. Anybody? Thanks.

[mandrews1119]

Whew, buddy!!

I don't know if anyone other than a bonafide counselor can answer you! That being said, here's my two cents worth. It sounds as if you are more angry and betrayed more than anything else. It's ok, anger is normal. it is what we do with it that matters.

 

The bottom line is this, my friend - do you want to try and make it work? Yes, you have a long story, and it would do you a disservice to try tp reply to each and every nuance within it. Some people might, and especially friends and family and all the darned "do-gooders" out there. Don't listen!! It sounds to me as if you WANT to try to make this work, and if that is so, then you must begin to take the steps necessary to do so. It sounds as if you want some reinforcement for this decision. The only reinforcement you need is that from your wife, your kids, and YOURSELF. If you go about it half-hearted, it won't fly at all! If you go about because you are sincere and mean it, you cannot fail, even if in the end it doesn't go as planned. You will have given it all you possibly could, and can hold your head up high with no regrets. If you don't try, you will be kicking yourself for the rest of your life wondering what may have happened if you had tried.!

 

If she is sincere about trying again, then she will have to do at least the same, and get off the BS about telling you how YOU need to change. Change comes from within the person because they see or feel a need to change, not because someone else wants you to. I'm sure some good solid counseling will let her know this. If you BOTH are sincere about making it work, it will show from the outset. Yes, it will require LOTS of work, but the rewards in your case far outweigh the work, and the risks. The first step is deciding that you both want to TRY - and it sounds like you've done that. Best of luck, hope my two cents helps.

[midori]

Originally posted by mandrews1119

If she is sincere about trying again, then she will have to do at least the same, and get off the BS about telling you how YOU need to change.

 

Very astute observation.

 

RD1, I'm familiar with the basic details of your situation, and I can only imagine what a difficult time this must be for you. What strikes me is that your wife hasn't yet shown much consistency: she's doubtful about her relationship w/you but she marries you anyway, she has affairs, she's miserable in the marriage but pretends that all is well, she wants to work on it, she doesn't want to work on it, she misses you, she's seeing a new guy, she only wants to be with you and have her family back. The only consistent things are the contradictions. Perhaps that's what happens when people are doing a lot of soul-searching, but her cycles seem to be long-standing.

 

As was suggested above, I too think that you've just got to do what feels right for you. You've got far more insight into the subtle workings of your relationship with your wife than we have. But standing outside that forest, as I do, I'm just saying that I haven't heard anything yet that suggests to me that your wife has resolved whatever it is in her that has thus far made it impossible for her to choose a path and stick with it. I know what it's like to have soemone you love reject you and then want to come back. In my own case I learned the hard way that I should have waited to see consistent signs of his intentions before buying into his change of heart. He was perfectly sincere whenever he spoke, but he was far too messed up/immature/whatever to take seriously. So I'm advising you to listen with your heart, but let your heart also be informed by a bit of detached assessment. Your wife might really mean what she's saying at any point in time. That might be why she affects you so. And maybe she really has turned a corner, made some real changes. If so, that will be consistently evident over time.

[mandrews1119]

Midori,

Thank you for the back-up.

mandrews

[reservoirdog1]

Anyway, we talked about this email later. She told me that she hadn't really tried during the two months we talked reconciliation after August, because by that point she wasn't sure she wanted to. She's had a lot of time since then to think, and feels that she wants to try.

 

This is the fourth paragraph from the end. I have to change one thing: in January, when she called and asked me to come back, she felt like she wanted to try. Now, because she's been trying to move on, she's not sure.

 

Thx...

[cdn]

in January, when she called and asked me to come back, she felt like she wanted to try. Now, because she's been trying to move on, she's not sure.

 

Sorry to be dense, but I am lost. You posted yesterday that she'd just reponded to your email and that you and she talked and she said

 

She's had a lot of time since then to think, and feels that she wants to try.

 

But today she is not sure?

[reservoirdog1]

Sorry, I've confused things a bit. When she called me in January, she'd had a lot of time to think and felt that she wanted to try again. She didn't articulate herself terribly well in that conversation, and I took from it that she was just having a hard time coping with single parenthood and just wanted a warm body around to help, and that her motives were iffy. Because I didn't hear anything that addressed my concerns about fundamental incompatibility, I declined.

 

What she had wanted to say was the stuff she ended up saying in her email yesterday. Between the January call and yesterday's email, however, she's been trying to move on, figuring that I see this as totally over. (What she'd said to me in November about incompatibility had led me to that conclusion back then.) If she'd told me in January what she told me yesterday, would it have made a difference? I honestly don't know. I think it would definitely have given me pause, or at least led me to a different conclusion w/r/t her motives and reasons.

 

Anyway, the question for her (and for me) is, whether or not we've both moved on too far to make reconciliation worthwhile. We're meeting for dinner on Sunday night to talk about it some more, and until then we're pretty much tabling everything and carrying on with our lives. There's been no commitment made to try again -- more like exploratory discussions.

[cdn]

Ok, let me make sure I am tracking before I say anything.

 

She called in January and asked for a reconciliation but you declined. She did not express her desire for reconciliation in terms that conveyed sincerity.

 

You then talked again yesterday. At this time, she was able to be quite eloquent about what her feelings had been in January. However, she also told you yesterday that she no longer feels as she did in January, since your lack of appropriate reponse (in Jan.) convinced her that you just wanted to move on.

 

Is this right?

[Reckless]

One of the issues here is really about change. Your wife had a blatant disregard for the basic principles of marriage and was sexually and emotionally dishonest with you pretty much from the go get. So do, can people change?

 

The 6th paragraph of your original post shows that your wife is making all the right noises - she at least recognises the issues that underlay her behaviour. I'm not suggesting that she's insincere in what she said but that at this stage, not 6 months into your separation, with panic rising and a fear of being alone looming, it sounds like so much head knowledge to me - like she'd read it in the book and underlined the relevant parts. Problem is, even changing the smallest things about ourselves, our outlook, our make-up, even shifting the tiniest hangups, the most irrational fears is unbelievably difficult and takes months if not years of concentrated effort.

 

It just seems to me that given the task at hand maybe you should wait to let the dust settle first. You sound full of hurt and confusion and as Midori pointed out in her excellent post, your wife hasn't been consistent in her behaviour from one month to the next. It does sound as if she's frightened of being alone and I'm not sure from what you've posted if she wants to be with someone or she wants to be with you.

 

In the six months you've been 'apart' you have both been blown this way and that, tried (and failed) reconciliation if I understood correctly as well as other people. If you are both going to re-build a solid marriage you both have to give yourselves time to stabalize in the situation in which you now find yourselves; get used to the idea of NOT being with each other in order to make a conscious decision to come together and start working.

 

I'd say wait; it'll be hard for you and of course your children but better to finally come together and start building something solid than be thrown back together in a shock of fear and confusion and have them subconsciously waiting for the other shoe to drop. On the good side, it does sound as if you genuinely love your wife and want to make a go of it, unfortunately love and determination sometimes just isn't enough so I'd tread very, very cautiously.

 

First time round the mistake was thinking that being together would 'magically' solve the problems, don't make the same mistake again.

[mandrews1119]

RD,

Your last post confused me. What is her position now?? If she is waffling (which people do, especially women - when faced with let's try or not, for their own reasons), then try and let her know that you cannot be a part of that process, at least not now. If she wants to try, you will, but if she wants to waffle, you won't waffle with her. Trying is no guarantee of success, but at least it is an effort. If she cannot or will not make an effort at this time, then respectfully be suppotive and keep your cool and your distance.

[reservoirdog1]

Mandrews -- I know what you're saying, but the trouble is, I'm waffling too. We're both waffling together.

 

We talked this morning for a bit. The guy she's been seeing is like her in a lot of ways (only 25 years older), he's outgoing, he has tons of self-confidence, he pushes her, etc. Obviously it's not clear to what degree those traits are a product of who he is, or his added life experience. He's the sort of guy that is, I guess, a natural fit for somebody like her.

 

She's not trying to "choose" between us -- she's trying to make an independent assessment of whether or not we can have a happy, long-term marriage together, without clouding that with comparisons. I'm trying to do that too. Neither of us want to try again just for the children -- that's a recipe for more heartbreak down the road. Each of us is trying to determine whether or not there's a realistic possibility that we can be happy and faithful, long-term, with the other.

 

The difficulty in our situation is that we didn't get a number of years in the beginning of the marriage where we were both happy, before she became so unhappy. She was unhappy and uncertain from the get-go. The question there is whether or not that means any attempt to fix this is automatically doomed, or has a low likelihood of success.

 

If we decide to give it another try, my response won't be to do victory laps or anything -- it'll be to strap on my armour for what's sure to be a very difficult process requiring a hell of a lot of work, and whose outcome is uncertain. But maybe that was our problem from day one -- we didn't appreciate how much work was required, and figured that love would solve everything. Maybe the problem was that we did the victory lap thing to the complete exclusion of the armouring-up.

 

Or, maybe we are simply too different and not what the other person needs. I don't know.

[carra]

hi, i know how you feel. My hubby seperated from me in nov.

 

since then we have tried reconciling many times, but the hurt and frustration were still there.

 

i am now just realizing my hubby and I need help to make our marriage work. i am going to counceling, i want my hubby to go too.

 

The previous posters were right, let the dust settle, think with a clearer mind. i think you two will be able to communicate w/ eachother better.

 

i hope everything works out for you and your wife.

 

p.s. I'll pray for you, please pray for me.

[mandrews1119]

Waffling together is ok, it is called trying!! That's my point, if you are doing anything together at this point which is even remotely leading to reuniting, then be straight forward (both of you) and call it that - TRYING!! There is no shame in that and you at least have clarification. At least you have a set of goals and a direction, rather than the eternal "dance". Best of luck. Be assured, at some point you are going to have to call it something.