My Dad is a Crappy Grandfather

[candymoon]

My dad is in his 60s, healthy and alert for the most part (a little blood pressure issue and that's all). My DD is 4.

 

After a bought of infertility H and I found I was expecting, unexpectedly (oops!). I tell my dad the good and yet surprising news and he's like great maybe we'll get a boy in the family. All he's had is my sister and me. He always wanted a boy and that was made very clear to me early on in my upbringing, that he would have been happier with a boy. They knew I was the last so no boy was a possibility.

 

So I tell him from the amnio it's a girl. He says "Ugh!"

 

WTF? I tell him off for being so supportive during a time when I really needed my father.

 

To this day he CANNOT REMEMBER HER NAME. She is "grandbaby", "granddaughter"... and most recently she has become "What's-Her-Name. "

 

He has not remembered a single birthday. I call to remind him. This past bday I didnt remind him at all and he didn't even call. Mind you, this is not much different than the behavior he exhibited towards his own daughters.

 

After she was just born, he'd drop by unnanounced, call constantly. He did bring gifts---but they were all boys things. To this day everything is inappropriate either agewise (which doesn't bother me, we just store it til she's older), or its boys clothing, etc...

When I started to invite him over this year in my resolution to get DD closer to my side of the family, he'd say hi to her and just ignore her. As a matter of fact, she was babbling to me and he says, "I see you haven't learned the fine art of ignoring the kid yet!" WOW.

 

It's like my childhood in small vignettes all over again every time I schedule a visit.

 

And to answer in advance: as a father to my sibling and me, he was the sole breadwinner. He was also verbally abusive, neglectful and sometimes so physically abusive he'd beat my sister to semi-consciousness when we were teens.

 

And NO I would never and have never left my child alone with him, but I thought she should at least get to know my family with supervision. But he ignores her anyway...so I don't get it. I had him around maybe once every other month for a couple hours, and of course holidays like christmas, etc... but I wonder even the point of that... Sometimes I feel like his behavior is all my fault... but I don't know why...

 

I just feel if I don't let DD get to know him even from a distance as I've been trying to do, she will resent me for it later. I had this issue with my own parents and refuse to continue the cycle they have of immediately disowning everyone--and hey have disowned themselves down to complete hermits as they have no friends or family left to disown except their two kids.

 

I guess I just wonder how people with healthier psychologies would deal with having such a crappy grandfather for their child? I feel so defeated. You'd think he'd at least remember her name by now...

 

(yes, i'm in therapy, and have been for 6 years now)

 

Thanks in advance.

[carhill]

Does your daughter (and daughter-to-be, congrats) have a paternal grandfather? If so, how does that go?

 

I never knew my grandparents. They all died before I was born. I guess it would've been nice knowing them. Who knows?

 

What does your therapist say about the concept of acceptance? Accepting that your father is who he is and he isn't going to change, for sure not at this late date. The potential changes are how you react and how you express your boundaries and act on them. Any insights there?

 

Best wishes for a healthy and successful pregnancy. Hopefully H will make a great granddaddy someday. If I misunderstood and you're not currently pregnant, perhaps the stork will visit soon

Edited July 9, 2010 by carhill

[candymoon]

Does your daughter (and daughter-to-be, congrats) have a paternal grandfather? If so, how does that go?

 

I never knew my grandparents. They all died before I was born. I guess it would've been nice knowing them. Who knows?

 

What does your therapist say about the concept of acceptance? Accepting that your father is who he is and he isn't going to change, for sure not at this late date. The potential changes are how you react and how you express your boundaries and act on them. Any insights there?

 

Best wishes for a healthy and successful pregnancy. Hopefully H will make a great granddaddy someday. If I misunderstood and you're not currently pregnant, perhaps the stork will visit soon

 

Thanks carhill for responding

 

Oh no, I'm not expecting now! That was how he was when I was pregnant with her.

 

I am learning better to express my boundaries. It's hard when you try to express them to your parent, who is also a former abuser. I have gotten stronger though... though sometimes I wonder if I should at least call him on his inability to recall her name.

 

Her paternal grandfather is great and she loves him to death. She's the apple of his eye and he dotes on her as one would expect a grandfather to. I have no issues with my FIL as a grandfather.

[candymoon]

I guess about acceptance, I have accepted that he is an abusive, manipulative jerk...

 

I just don't know how to handle it with my interactions with him. I don't know how todeal with his inability to remember her name or her (or my!) bday and other innapropriate things he says & does.

 

Is it worth the breath even if it makes me angry? Should I express it even though I know it's like talking to a brick wall? Should I tell him why I dont return his calls, etc? If I continue to hold it in, I'm starting to feel like I'm letting him walk all over me and my daughter as he did me as a child...

[carhill]

Sorry about my misunderstanding. Being childless, I want everyone to be pregnant

 

Happy to read that FIL is a great grandfather. Some men are and some men aren't. That reality is part of the acceptance I'm talking about. It's not easy. It's d@mned hard. Someone has to do the hard work. Your other choice is to disconnect your father. Do you want to do that?

 

This concept of acceptance really can work. It's helped me through an otherwise painful (emotionally) divorce and to also deal with my mother's mental illness. I only wish I had learned the specific tools sooner. One of those tools is letting go. Letting go of the abuse, the pain, the hurt. Feeling it slip from your grasp. Visualizing that. *Accepting that it's OK to let it go*

 

Every second you hold on to it, he wins. I think it's high time for you, H and DD to see your success clearly and completely without the burdens of the past intruding. Think about all those actions of the past and present you've shared. How could you have embraced your success and perceived them differently?

 

OK, time to go let the cat in. Don't want the coyotes to get him.... take care!

[Ronni_W]

I guess I just wonder how people with healthier psychologies would deal with having such a crappy grandfather for their child? I feel so defeated.

Hugs, candymoon.

This is NOT your defeat! This man has been like this since before you were born. His behaviour is not about your daughter...or you. Quite honestly, he sounds like a miserable, joyless person.

 

My maternal grandmother was like that. I wish my mom had NOT tried so hard to "get me closer" to that side of her family, when I was young. It was not in my best interest (regardless of my mom's resolve, needs and desires about it.)

 

From people like this, I'd suggest just do your best to shield and protect your daughter. Your dad is not going to change just because you became a parent. In any case, it does not sound that he has much positive, healthy or wise to contribute to your child's mind, heart or soul. In any case, he is not at all good for her little psyche, nor is he a positive role model.

 

If it bothers you, yes, speak up. But perhaps like this: "Dad, how can I help you feel more joy and love in your heart? It hurts me that you are missing out on being able to see and positively participate in the beauty and wonder that is <DD's name>. It hurts me that I cannot share the joys of parenthood with you. How can we make that happen?"

 

If he grunts, snarls and groans...then that is your answer, candymoon. He does not want it for himself, and it does not hurt him. Then you just go into overdrive shielding and protecting your daughter from his hostile words and 'energy'. She does NOT need him to feel loved and special. But he can make her feel unloved and unspecial.

 

Hugs and best.

[dreamingoftigers]

My father is an abuser/manipulator etc. When we told him I was pregnant his response was "Why are you telling me this?"

 

These men have no special regard for their children, why would they have any special regard for their grandchildren. You are not doing yourself or your child any favors by encouraging begrudging contact between the two. As your daughter grows she will notice that grandpa isn't interested and it actually won't be a big deal to her. What will be a pain for her, and damn uncomfortable will be if you keep trying to push him to like her etc. and she knows it's all bs.

 

My mother does this, and it's a piss-off. And of course my Dad provides lip service to her about "family" and then does everything he can to be rejecting.

 

Let the chips fall where they may, you can't shape someone into a decent grandfather, he's old enough to decide for himself to be a jerk or not. Whenever you try to repeatedly influence a close relative's emotional choices you waste a lot of time and energy. He knows where to find his granddaughter.

 

Concentrate on the more positive relationships around her, those will be the ones she wants and needs in the future. Not a draining relationship where she has to fight to have her name remembered. Who knows, maybe if you don't push the old man might come around, but it is doubtful.

[Krytie TV]

It's very possible I'm totally missing something. If not, maybe I can provide you my alternative viewpoint. But granted, only you know what's really going on.

 

I get the slightest inkling that you are being a bit sensitive to your grandfather's behavior. I get the impression that you are seeking a particular type of behavior from him and when he consistently is not doing what you envision you are taking it personally, fueled by your views of your father from your childhood... not from what he is actually doing now.

 

Saying "ugh!" to the girl announcement is something I could totally see myself saying. I am about to have twin girls (maybe within 6 weeks ) and could completely envision me having that playful/sarcastic response to another girl in the family. That wouldn't mean I meant it or wouldn't love the child.

 

My family has a long history of calling all children, "what's his face", "what's her name", "hey you", and anything else you can imagine. We are flighty and the women in my family for some reason have poor immediate recall. It's funny and no one ever takes offense to it.

 

As for birthdays, I can't defend that. My father was the same way and I held it against him to his grave.

 

My wife and I believe in a degree of androgenous behavior with our girls. We have boy clothes, blue clothes, boy toys, the whole nine... along with girl stuff. I don't believe girls should be bombarded with pink and barbies as it limits their exposure to other things. So again, don't see the harm in his behavior.

 

If I had a dollar for every time I said to someone "don't worry, you'll be able to block her out soon", I'd be rich. And let's face it, it's a great survival tactic sometimes.

 

These in isolation, to me, are absolutely and completely normal. I won't comment on the abuse aspect as, like I said, only you know what really went on. But my point is that all things things you identify as horrible things seem absolutely normal to me. So to universally designate him a bad grandfather is something I wouldn't be able to do.

[KikiW]

My father shows similar tendencies, although if you asked him he probably thinks he's a GREAT grandfather (as in "fantastic"). He is the one who is ultimately going to miss out. When he is old and frail and no one has much interest in actively taking care of him because he couldn't be bothered to involve himself very much, he will either come to the realization he was a jerk or he will wonder why no one calls a great guy like him.

 

As far as the boy toys/clothes - I know you are bristling because he is being passive aggressive. Use them up anyway. Make them her hardcore playclothes that she can get muddy and filthy in, and when they get wrecked you will have no trouble throwing them away. I also have a daughter and we bought gender-neutral clothing - at this point she sways between ultra-girly and downright boyish (even has a short little haircut so she looks adorable either way).

 

It's hard to accept that your parent is a jack@$$. It's so freaking disappointing. I'm so sorry

[Corporate]

 

To this day he CANNOT REMEMBER HER NAME. She is "grandbaby", "granddaughter"... and most recently she has become "What's-Her-Name. "

 

Ha ha, that's very funny.

 

He was also verbally abusive, neglectful and sometimes so physically abusive he'd beat my sister to semi-consciousness when we were teens.

 

That's NOT funny! What did your sister do?

[candymoon]

My father shows similar tendencies, although if you asked him he probably thinks he's a GREAT grandfather (as in "fantastic"). He is the one who is ultimately going to miss out. When he is old and frail and no one has much interest in actively taking care of him because he couldn't be bothered to involve himself very much, he will either come to the realization he was a jerk or he will wonder why no one calls a great guy like him.

 

 

Yes, sounds they are similar. No one has much interest in him besides himself. He is getting frail now and his house is a mess and I just couldnt be bothered to help. It sounds awful, but being over there just makes my skin crawl.

 

As far as the boy toys/clothes - I know you are bristling because he is being passive aggressive.

 

BAM! Right on the money. It's the passive aggressive thing. As if it's our fault my H's X-chromosome fertilized my egg. He's such a douche!

 

We are not into t he girly-girl thing btw. I don't buy her dolls, etc... Her other relatives do, but it's not her thing either. She like science games and cars and trucks. So it's not the boy stuff, it's that he's being a dick on purpose.

 

It's hard to accept that your parent is a jack@$$. It's so freaking disappointing. I'm so sorry

 

It was. But I've accepted it. This thread is more about what's a healthy response to his BS.

 

And I'm sorry for you too.

[candymoon]

Ha ha, that's very funny.

 

 

 

That's NOT funny! What did your sister do?

 

 

None of it was funny and neither is his present BS. It's just him living life precariously through me, hoping that the child he wanted to be a son has a son--for him! He honestly cannot retain her name for more than 2 minutes. It's quite pathological.

 

About those other times, what does a 14 year old girl do when her dad kicks her in the ribs until she can barely breathe? You wait for him to finish then you crawl off to your room to recover. I honestly dont have much memories of those times and that's probably a good thing.

 

We had child protective there a few times, but because we were an upstanding middle class family, they didn't believe a word the kids said. The system failed us completely.

[candymoon]

It's very possible I'm totally missing something. If not, maybe I can provide you my alternative viewpoint. But granted, only you know what's really going on.

 

I get the slightest inkling that you are being a bit sensitive to your grandfather's behavior. I get the impression that you are seeking a particular type of behavior from him and when he consistently is not doing what you envision you are taking it personally, fueled by your views of your father from your childhood... not from what he is actually doing now.

 

These in isolation, to me, are absolutely and completely normal. I won't comment on the abuse aspect as, like I said, only you know what really went on. But my point is that all things things you identify as horrible things seem absolutely normal to me. So to universally designate him a bad grandfather is something I wouldn't be able to do.

 

They are not views but actual facts of what he his. Read the details above. He is being passive-aggressive. People like that don't change, they just change to another gameplan when the old one doesn't work anymore.

 

I'm sure when your family is doing those things, it's said with a smile and laughter. That's not how it is here. Your situation and mine are apples and oranges. Look beyond what appears to be isolated lines, I can't give a full 35 year history, but I've given hints here and there. There is a much bigger picture.

 

I'm not being over-sensitive. Seriously. I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with his pathology as an abuser as an adult survivor of those abuses.

Edited July 10, 2010 by candymoon

[candymoon]

My father is an abuser/manipulator etc.

 

DoT!!! Where have you been hiding?! Big hugs, girly!

 

Sorry your dad is crappy too. What a burden to leave kids with emotionally and mentally as they grow up and become parents! Life is hard enough--why do some parents make it harder on their own kids?! It just baffles me as now I'm a mother and seeing things differently.

 

No, I'm not trying to shape him into anything. The visits are literally once every 3 or 4 months, depending on who's bday or what major holiday. I don't think DD needs to get close to him---that would be dangerous for her psyche in the long run. I just want her to have known him, have memories of him, even from a distance. That way, at least on this, she won't question my judgement on why there wasnt MORE contact. And even with what limited contact they have, she doesn't like him. And she likes everyone, which is says a lot about him.

 

I don't force them together besides him being in the house, more often, she backs away and finds other things to do for the hour he's here.

 

Hope things are going well with you and your situation!

[candymoon]

Hugs, candymoon.

This is NOT your defeat! This man has been like this since before you were born. His behaviour is not about your daughter...or you. Quite honestly, he sounds like a miserable, joyless person.

 

My maternal grandmother was like that. I wish my mom had NOT tried so hard to "get me closer" to that side of her family, when I was young. It was not in my best interest (regardless of my mom's resolve, needs and desires about it.)

 

From people like this, I'd suggest just do your best to shield and protect your daughter. Your dad is not going to change just because you became a parent. In any case, it does not sound that he has much positive, healthy or wise to contribute to your child's mind, heart or soul. In any case, he is not at all good for her little psyche, nor is he a positive role model.

 

If it bothers you, yes, speak up. But perhaps like this: "Dad, how can I help you feel more joy and love in your heart? It hurts me that you are missing out on being able to see and positively participate in the beauty and wonder that is <DD's name>. It hurts me that I cannot share the joys of parenthood with you. How can we make that happen?"

 

If he grunts, snarls and groans...then that is your answer, candymoon. He does not want it for himself, and it does not hurt him. Then you just go into overdrive shielding and protecting your daughter from his hostile words and 'energy'. She does NOT need him to feel loved and special. But he can make her feel unloved and unspecial.

 

Hugs and best.

 

Ah-ha! Solid advice Ronni. I think next time he tries some BS, I migt try to take that tactic. Other tactics I've used he pulls this "Oh dammit, I screw it up again! I blew it!" and waits to turn t around for sympathy for HIM as opposed to just apologizing for being a prick. Which will, of course, never happen.

 

No she does not need him to feel loved or special. She has her parents for that and a huge clan of family on her father's sidewho adore her every breath.

 

There is that to be thankful for.

[threebyfate]

He's not going to change at his age so why expose your daughter to his behaviour? She's already got a loving grandfather so there's no real isolation. If you have cousins, aunts, uncles and friends who are good people, this will provide her with a sufficiently large familial and social network.

[candymoon]

He's not going to change at his age so why expose your daughter to his behaviour? She's already got a loving grandfather so there's no real isolation. If you have cousins, aunts, uncles and friends who are good people, this will provide her with a sufficiently large familial and social network.

 

Why does everyone thinkI want him to change? It would be nice, but so would winning the lottery.

 

I'd just like advice on how to deal with him now.

 

Unfortunately I have no other family on my side. My parents broke ties with their relatives when I was about my daughters age. DD does have her father's side which is good for her.

[threebyfate]

Why does everyone thinkI want him to change? It would be nice, but so would winning the lottery.

 

I'd just like advice on how to deal with him now.

 

Unfortunately I have no other family on my side. My parents broke ties with their relatives when I was about my daughters age. DD does have her father's side which is good for her.

Why do you need to deal with him? If you're not together with her father and his family, then why not make more close friends, friends who can become your family.

[candymoon]

Why do you need to deal with him? If you're not together with her father and his family, then why not make more close friends, friends who can become your family.

 

I don't want to cut him off completely. I am working on the friends and my own social networking part. Not as easy as it was when we were kids. lol.

[silverfish]

Why does everyone thinkI want him to change? It would be nice, but so would winning the lottery.

 

I'd just like advice on how to deal with him now.

 

Unfortunately I have no other family on my side. My parents broke ties with their relatives when I was about my daughters age. DD does have her father's side which is good for her.

 

Maybe ties were broken because of your dad's behaviour. It's quite common for that to happen in abusive situations - I expect your Mum got the same treatment from your Dad... friends and family stayed away if they couldn't help, so you and your sister lost out too on the extended family.

 

If you want a realationship with your Dad, then that's fine. No need for him to be around your daughter at all. I doubt she cares, you say he doesn't care....the only one that cares is you. You care because you hope it will redeem him somehow. That he will realise that he's missing out, and that he missed out when you were a kid. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't in some way realise this already - it's probably eating him up as he gets older

 

I think you need to see him on your own, and seriously consider having an honest conversation with him about how you feel...I did this with my Dad very successfully about 3 years ago. It was a huge wake up call for him. He finally realised that he was dealing with an adult, an adult who knew a hell of a lot about him and his past behaviour, and wan't afraid to call him out on it.

 

It helped that my stepmother a little way into the conversation told him 'I'm not helping you here - you deal with it' and I believe her influence helped me be strong enough to say what I felt

 

My Dad has since tried to make amends, things aren't perfect, but we don't BS eachother anymore, and warts and all, he is part of my children's life now. They love him...he is a very funny man. He's quite edgy and difficult but he's mellowed since our talk and they really like that side of him.

[Corporate]

 

About those other times, what does a 14 year old girl do when her dad kicks her in the ribs until she can barely breathe? You wait for him to finish then you crawl off to your room to recover. I honestly dont have much memories of those times and that's probably a good thing.

 

We had child protective there a few times, but because we were an upstanding middle class family, they didn't believe a word the kids said. The system failed us completely.

 

How many times have your father kicked/beat your sister? How is her relationship with your dad now?

[threebyfate]

I don't want to cut him off completely. I am working on the friends and my own social networking part. Not as easy as it was when we were kids. lol.

I agree with Silverfish that this is between you and your father. Including your daughter means she has to be exposed to his dysfunctional behaviour unless you can "change" him.

 

True, it's not easy but if you expose your daughter to how you make friends, perhaps other mothers in the same situation, won't this show her that isolation isn't necessary?

[SarahRose]

Have you ever just flat out told him he acts like a jerk and that is why nobody wants to be around him?

 

I think if you still want to be around him tell him that if he acts like a decent human you'll come around, if he doesn't you won't.

 

THAT is what boundaries and consequences are about.

 

He keeps treating you the way he does because he can. If you refuse to put up with it, either he'll accept not seeing you or he'll act civil while you are around.

[Ronni_W]

Other tactics I've used he pulls this "Oh dammit, I screw it up again! I blew it!" and waits to turn t around for sympathy for HIM

Ah, yes. Poor him, huh? Always doing his best and never measuring up; always misunderstood and unappreciated; always everybody else's victim.

So sad it is, to be him, huh?

 

I really think how to deal with him is change how you used to do it, and change what you're still deep-down hoping for, from him. I know it's for your daughter's sake that you're holding out these hopes -- that he'll remember her name and birthday, and honour her gender; that he'll want to and be able to give her his love and affection -- but the hopes still belong to you, and will continue to leave you feeling defeated, disappointed, frustrated, etc.

 

He says, "I screwed up again"? You respond calmly but seriously, "Yes, dad, you did. So, there's an apology due for that. But. More importantly, it sounds like you don't actually like that you did it. Is that right?"

 

That is. Find ways to put it back on him; to make him accountable for his own crap. State your feeling/want/need, and end it with a question -- it kind of forces him to respond, if only to defend his bad/negative behaviour. So, he's not just standing there feeling like he's "gotten away with it" again.

 

You can also do stuff like, "Dad, do you realize how often you try to come off like the victim? Like woe-is-me? Is that your image of yourself -- that you're powerless and helpless? How is that, to live with? Do you want me to help you find a therapist?"

NOT all in a row like that, of course --but things like that. By starting to relate to him in a new way, you will at least make him have to relate to you in a new way. [because] In order for him to stay successful at pulling that "poor me" crap on you, he will have to start thinking about how to do it differently...cos obviously his old, tried-and-true methods are not working on you anymore.

 

Very best of luck. I wish you didn't have to deal with this problem. It would have been nicer if he was just...nicer.

Hugs.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Ronni_W
grammar

[Chinook]

He's a bloke. He needs instrictions. Give him stuff to do.

 

Sorry... less flippant now. Some men (and women, like myself) need to have everything spelled out for them. They need to have your standards and guidance written in stone for them to follow. You don't want him to act like a jerk...? Give him instructions on how not to do it. You'd be surprised how easy it is and how much better it makes things. I know this sounds silly... but for some people, it's true. My relationship with my partner functions on this level - he asks things of me, I do them. Willingly and with love. If he doesn't ask, I don't know what he needs. I'm not being selfish, I just need him to tell me what's needed of me. Maybe your Dad needs this too.

 

As for the dealing with him... you can't make him a nicer person. You can't make him find love and joy where there is none. Only he can do that. Personally, I think you're probably trying to hard for everyone's benefit. Let him come to you... let him reach out for you, for his family. If he doesn't then clearly, you know he doesn't need you (or his Grand-daughter) and if that's the case, then you don't need to be around that kind of problem. Yes, it's hard. But just because individuals are our family or are related to us, doesn't mean they are good people or beneficial to us.

 

Also... on the forgetting the name thing. That could also be a medical issue - a lot of conditions can manifest in short term memory loss AND as we age, it impacts on our memory a lot. The fact he has called her 'Grand-baby' is a good sign actually, at least he tried a nice name. The fact that he says 'whats-her-name' - that would have me more worried that it's something he can't recall. That's not always just thoughtlessness.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Chinook
Clarity