karnak Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Sapientia is right. There's nothing you could have done to save your marriage. When she had her affair she already considered it dead, in her heart. Women and men in supposed happy marriages have affairs too. There's nothing you could have done. Some people can't keep their legs closed, regardless of the emotional state they're in. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 You know what's harsh? I am a fairly avid photographer and always take pictures when we're travelling or away for weekends. I went over my summer 2009 photo's and realize that for every weekend photo of my kids - happily playing, swimming, fishing, tubing, paddling at our cottage, my wife isn't there because she was at the OM's house having sex. And every photo since then seems tainted because there she is, smiling beside me and acting every bit the faithful wife all while harbouring this secret. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 I can't stop feeling that if I had followed the advice back in 2010 forcefully, things would have turned out differently. There was a chance in 2010 when I could have been a lot more pro- active in getting the truth. Instead, I stupidly trusted my wife and she continued to be poisoned by the lie she was hiding. In looking back, our marriage was not great when she had her affair, but things really went south afterwards, I was just too blind to see it happening. Lesson here is that I should have gotten to the absolute bottom of my suspicions back in 2010. Then, there might have been a chance at a repair. Now it is too late. Link to post Share on other sites
Cb3657 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Don't dig in the wound guy, you have got to move on now. Your wife left your marriage and started dating 3 years back. She is used to the idea of other people in her life, you cannot change that. Looking back to find the exact moment it all went wrong is zero help unless you can get Marty mcfly to take you for a ride. I know the temptation to do this is intense but every time you start down that road go do something, bike ride, skiing anything to keep you out of the hole, Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 It's a good time to start looking forward instead of looking back! Link to post Share on other sites
karnak Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I can't stop feeling that if I had followed the advice back in 2010 forcefully, things would have turned out differently. There was a chance in 2010 when I could have been a lot more pro- active in getting the truth. Instead, I stupidly trusted my wife and she continued to be poisoned by the lie she was hiding. In looking back, our marriage was not great when she had her affair, but things really went south afterwards, I was just too blind to see it happening. Lesson here is that I should have gotten to the absolute bottom of my suspicions back in 2010. Then, there might have been a chance at a repair. Now it is too late. As soon as she cheated on you she stabbed your marriage in the guts. Hardly any chance of recovery after that. And even if you did, you'd spend the remainder of your days afraid of getting stabbed again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Well I had a good day today. The kids are with me and life seemed good. My youngest had a lot of homework, so she stayed home while I took my eldest daughter to the local ski shop to get her new snowboard adjusted. She also needed a new jacket as she had outgrown her old jacket. Right in the store, I got a call on my cellphone - guess who? It was my wife and she was crying a blubbering about how sad she is and how she misses the girls and begging to be able to come over to my house and see them. Completely screwed with my head after such a great day. I told her to calm down and that I would call her back. Found a quiet spot and called her back, and she was STILL crying, but said that she has to learn to handle this on her own. I said that if it is just the girls she is missing then she has to learn to handle it, but if it was the FAMILY she was missing then we could talk. Then my wife said - OK she will stay home. Got home and noticed that she had called THREE TIMES when we were out. What if my youngest daughter had answered? Imagine an 11 year old dealing with a mother who is "crying" about "missing" her daughters. What kind of manipulative BS is this? I got VERY angry and called my wife. Of course, she had gotten over her misery to go shopping, so called her cellphone. When I spoke to her, she tried to turn the tables saying, I had told her not to come over if she was only missing the girls. So after hanging up, I sent her an angry email basically saying - do NOT call when you are crying like that because you are not the only one suffering. I told her the kids are suffering FAR MORE than she is. I ended the email by saying the kids do not need to hear their Mom crying over something SHE CAUSED. And here I was, having a good day, trying to to NC - and my wife continues to screw with my mind. Unbelievable!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 It's always about her! Glad you had some fun today. No need to always answer when she calls... Link to post Share on other sites
standtall Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 You need to go LC/NC for a while, Cedar. Stop feeding her monster. Great advice cedar..take it. It's hard, but it needs to be done. You're reacting to her is enabling her behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
paradigm shift Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Agree... LC/NC, it's tearing you apart and you are a decent kind man. You have to get out of this behavioural pattern. It's hard, post here instead of interacting with her...we will be your sounding boards and venting space. You can even write in ALL CAPS.... PS 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 You can even write in ALL CAPS.... PS THANKS... SOME GREAT ADVICE!! Seriously, I am trying to do Limited Contact, but with the kids and their activities it is REALLY tough - we are always interacting re the kids. Also - we are still working with the mediator to finalize the parenting plan - so will see each other there. Also want to get my daughters in for some family counselling, since they (particularly my youngest) are having trouble coming to grips with the separation. My wife is NOW acting like being away from "her" children is the worst thing in the world for her. I fear it is a bit of an act - this is a woman who had no problem spending weekends away from her kids - as well as week's away when they were younger (every time I took a business trip, my wife would make a tally and eventually have a girls week somewhere - no problem missing the kids then). I think she is playing the "ultra-dedicated single Mom" personna on for size. I believe the guy she had over for dinner gave her a talk about this after we spoke to each other. She is going a little over the top... Somebody in my family suggested googling "narcissistic personality disorder", which seems to fit my wife pretty well. I am beginning to view her more with pity than with longing. Although, honestly - by tonight that may change as I lie in bed alone with my thoughts. It's a real rollercoaster.... Link to post Share on other sites
worldgonewrong Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Cedarman- just wanted to say, I think you're handling everything really well. I know this whole situation is a poop sandwich, but my God, you're taking each step very well. Remember - YOU hold all the cards. She's effed up her life (and by extension, the family's) but YOU have the power to make the best out of this situation for your kids. I support you 100%. Keep methodically doing what you're doing. Don't look back. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Well, not so sure I'm handling it as well as I should. Have been making a conscious effort to get out more. Also getting back in touch with some old golfing buddies who I lost touch with for various reasons (eg - my wife alienating me from them). Had lunch yesterday with my friend who was actually on the golf trip my wife took back in 2010 (when the affair was over, but both my wife and the OM were on the trip - I talked about this earlier). He was completely shocked and disappointed in both. (Interestingly, when I said my wife had an affair with somebody from our club, my friend initially guessed another guy). My wife is now officially off any future invitations for tournaments with this group. He filled me in on a few details too. When my wife and the OM started flirting the OM was still married to his first wife (with two kids aged 3 and 1). The marriage was in trouble - but my wife ensured that it was fatal. THEN over the next year, the OM got engaged to another woman - all while flirting with my wife. And when the physical affair happened, it was less than 6 months before this guy got married (in early 2010). So he was cheating on his first wife, as well as his fiance. My wife is 13 years older, so I am guessing he was just using her for sex, while my wife was fantasizing about a "relationship" with younger man. What's worse, my wife told me where they would meet and it turns out that when this guy left his first wife, he moved into his Grandfather's House, living in the BASEMENT for about a year. THIS is where they met! The guy wouldn't even spring for a decent hotel. And my wife snuck into an old guy's basement to have sex. Does it get any lower than THAT? Seriously, when I think about how pathetic it is, I laugh.... then I get angry. Anyway - this guy had a reputation as a bit of a player. Good golfer too. But I take comfort in the fact that, according to my friend, his game has suffered on all fronts. Put on a lot of weight. Also - he has a new kid - 1 year old. Here is the problem: I know where this guy works. I know how to get in contact with him. I know how to get in contact with his father. Don't know how to get in contact with his current wife. But I can't shake this obsessive feeling that I want to expose the guy and let him know what a morally bankrupt a-hole I think he is. Also feel like writing to his Dad, just to let him know too. This would gain me absolutely nothing except for the satisfaction of doing it. Everyone says I should just let go though. Seeing a therapist next week - will be good to get some third party input. Link to post Share on other sites
worldgonewrong Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Maybe I'm mixing up stories here, but didn't you already get in touch with this OM? Or is this a different OM? Apologies if I'm confusing things. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Are you even reading any advice being given here? If so, why not engage in"discussing" things with us instead of just diary form you use...? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Worldgonewrong - this is the original OM, not the recent OM. 2Sunny: yes, I am reading the advice here and sharing my success or lack thereof in applying it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
worldgonewrong Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Are you even reading any advice being given here? If so, why not engage in"discussing" things with us instead of just diary form you use...? 2sunny: I respectfully say just give Cedarman a little slack. He's relatively new here, and get his bearings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Apologies if this is like "journal entry", but I have to vent. Had another session with our mediator today - and it was pretty toxic. My wife is all over the map with the parenting plan. Things we had agreed to all of a sudden are no good. She is being very disruptive - for no real purpose, because in the end we ended up back where we started with the plan we had originally agreed to. But get this: towards the end of the meeting, she says to our mediator that she does not feel "safe" around me. She thinks I am spying on her (I am not) and she thinks I am so emotionally wrecked that I might do her harm. She actually told our mediator this, right in front of me! I definitely took her to task for this - but only made myself look argumentative. What she did is exactly like the old joke of asking somebody: "So, have you stopped beating your wife?" It's unbelievable! So now what do I do? How do you defend yourself against crap like this? I suspect that she is trying to undermine my reputation and cover her separation by making it look like she is a victim. I also have a real worry that she is using subtle statements on our kids to make herself look like a victim in their eyes. My kids still act normally with me - but I have a real fear that my wife is trying to alienate them. I had spent the previous week and a half doing NC/LC and was having a pretty good week of NOT thinking about our marriage or about my wife. Today's meeting has put me back below square one. Link to post Share on other sites
paradigm shift Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Just keep being who you are and what you are doing. Get an intermediary for dropping off and picking up kids. Never, ever, meet her alone. Have someone in car if absolute necessary. My hunch is the LC/NC has her unnerved. And ya, she probably is playing the kids. I am a pretty straight up person and sometimes I think that all I would have to say to kids is....but in my defense, I don't and I never will, because they deserve to be safe and well loved. What are custody arrangements? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Apologies if this is like "journal entry", but I have to vent. Had another session with our mediator today - and it was pretty toxic. My wife is all over the map with the parenting plan. Things we had agreed to all of a sudden are no good. She is being very disruptive - for no real purpose, because in the end we ended up back where we started with the plan we had originally agreed to. But get this: towards the end of the meeting, she says to our mediator that she does not feel "safe" around me. She thinks I am spying on her (I am not) and she thinks I am so emotionally wrecked that I might do her harm. She actually told our mediator this, right in front of me! I definitely took her to task for this - but only made myself look argumentative. What she did is exactly like the old joke of asking somebody: "So, have you stopped beating your wife?" It's unbelievable! So now what do I do? How do you defend yourself against crap like this? I suspect that she is trying to undermine my reputation and cover her separation by making it look like she is a victim. I also have a real worry that she is using subtle statements on our kids to make herself look like a victim in their eyes. My kids still act normally with me - but I have a real fear that my wife is trying to alienate them. I had spent the previous week and a half doing NC/LC and was having a pretty good week of NOT thinking about our marriage or about my wife. Today's meeting has put me back below square one. People who have nothing to hide - hide nothing. She's worried you're spying? What's she hiding? And if she doesn't feel safe - she better bring evidence of what she thinks she should be worried about! Stick to evidence. Ask every time! Making things up isn't good enough. How can she feel like a victim when you're in little or no contact? Good reason not to contact! If she's irrational and not consistent - ask the mediator to test her for alcohol and drug use! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Just keep being who you are and what you are doing. Get an intermediary for dropping off and picking up kids. Never, ever, meet her alone. Have someone in car if absolute necessary. My hunch is the LC/NC has her unnerved. And ya, she probably is playing the kids. I am a pretty straight up person and sometimes I think that all I would have to say to kids is....but in my defense, I don't and I never will, because they deserve to be safe and well loved. What are custody arrangements? I suspect that she is fine with the LC/NC as right now any contact is toxic. Right now the parenting plan is that the girls stay with me in our home every night - but every other weekend they stay with my wife (Fri and Saturday night). Every other week, it is my wife's responsibility to do the carpooling duties, feed them, help them with homework and then deliver them back home by 9:00 pm. Every other week - it is my responsibility for everything. This suits me, as I still haven't "embraced" the part-time Dad thing. But it is imbalanced - even our mediator says that when it comes time to divorce, the courts will even things out. And my wife is in her "ohhhhh, I miss my children act" right now and wants more access. So the goal is to eventually have the kids stay at her place a few more nights (eg Thursday through Sunday every other week). Problem is, the kids are going to resist this because her place is a one bedroom with den. And our house is their home and the only one they've ever known. I made her condo den comfortable and private but it's a small bed and a small room - suitable for ONE child - my eldest daughter absolutely refuses to share a bed with her younger sister - so either my wife or my daughter will have to sleep on her living room couch. People I know who have been through this say that it is important to look positively on becoming a part-time parent - use the time to do things. So if it comes to a 70/30 split or even a 50/50 split, it will leave me with some scheduled free time which I can use just for me. Right now I am kind of stuck in limbo. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cedarman Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 If she's irrational and not consistent - ask the mediator to test her for alcohol and drug use! She is irrational when it comes to me - but rational in all other respects. She plays her innocent victim role very well. That's what worries me. She could be talking to all the mothers at school or in the neighborhood about having to leave me for her own "safety". And she will conveniently leave out the part about her cheating and lying about it. The funny thing is (now that I think about it) is IF she is worried about HER safety, then why the hell is she leaving our kids with me? I wish I had thought to ask this during the mediation session. Seriously - she is more concerned about HER safety than her kids? Does this make sense? If I thought SHE was "emotionally unbalanced to the point of danger", I would make sure that my kids were never with her unsupervised. Maybe my brother is right - she is a narcissist. Reading this forum, I always got the impression that separation at least made things cool down. For me, the separation has made things even MORE toxic than before. Maybe it's because my wife waited until after we were separated to confess about her physical affair? Or is this just the way a separation goes - bad at the beginning but then calmer? Link to post Share on other sites
aMguilts Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 hi Cedarman . I think you are doing ok Try not to get into what your wife is thinking thou Your main priority now is you. Or is this just the way a separation goes - bad at the beginning but then calmer? Usually it gets worse. But then it`s how YOU handle it . I`m on catch up on this post so i may be out of line. aM Link to post Share on other sites
aMguilts Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 @ 2sunny , hello. Who isn`t irrational and inconsistant when it comes to separating/divorcing ? Not the greatest experience for anyone to go through, but there`s a lot worse. aM Link to post Share on other sites
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