Am I crazy?

[jenifer1972]

He is gaslighting you big time, driving you crazy with all the double talk, trying to make you look like the crazy snoopy harpy wife. He has NO business as your husband to be carrying on long conversations and visits with another woman and certainly NOT discussing your problems. This is all being set up behind your back.

[luvstarved]

Confused, I know why you are confused. You don't know what is going on, you are unable so far to find out, and people who are not in the situation are coming to concrete conclusions about it. There are times on LS when I believe there is a very clear indication of what is going on from the info given, and I have given my opinion of such...but I am still not seeing it here.

 

I am not saying they aren't right. They MIGHT be, but ... they MIGHT not.

 

I do believe that the more you push, the more detached he will become. He clearly resents the snooping, and if it continues to his knowledge and everything has to be continually discussed, he may well grow to resent you in general...

 

And even if they are right, I do not believe that the way to redirect his attention toward you in a positive way is by nagging, seeking proof, smothering and crawling up his ass, and there IS already some indication that he is seeing it this way.

 

They could even be right and he is not fully aware of it yet. It DOES happen that "quality" people end up drifting in this direction and it gets out of hand and they themselves did not see it coming. I do believe in the callous serial cheater, etc, but I also believe in good people who don't acknowledge the progression even to themselves until it's gone too far...such as...

 

"You're just a friend. My wife is a little insecure about it, oh well. My wife is snooping on me. My wife is nagging me. My wife does not understand me. You understand. I never noticed before how cute your ass is. I'm having thoughts I should not have. You are, too? We can't let this happen. I can't stop thinking about you...this drama feels strangely good"

 

I have no clue what is in your H's head. It also happens that it never comes to this...but your behavior could contribute to it. I am NOT saying you are wrong to feel insecure or that it would be your fault if he did go too far.

 

I am saying that if you can try to take a more protective, preventive approach it might work better.

 

What if you told him, look, I have been insecure because I have felt that these women are more interesting for you to talk to, and I know that it is starting to get on your nerves. Can we agree for the next week that we will focus on each other and spend more time together WITHOUT discussing this, and for my sake take that week off without discussing it with them either? And just try to reconnect?

 

If he's REALLY mad, he might not want to do this, he might feel resentful and distant. If you sense this is true, then instead try just BEING more interesting...maybe by going somewhere on your own, seeming less concerned and dependent...maybe by reading some articles and sharing them with him and asking his opinion, start a conversation...maybe checking out local happenings and coming up with some ideas for things you can do together...a show, museum exhibit, ball game, etc.

 

I think you might be coming across as just needy and insecure and that is not very attractive to most guys, even if you're married to them. I'm not sure this is true, but I got the feeling that you have told him you want to talk more, but without having an independent idea on what you could talk about. Might help to come up with some...

 

If he's really "buffaloing" you then indignantly proving it is not going to save your marriage. A prick does not stop being a prick because you call them a prick, sadly. OF COURSE, you need to stay alert to red flags. ( In my experience, you don't really need to LOOK for them, they just show up, flapping away. Not predicting their arrival does not make you a fool).

 

If he's not buffaloing, but the danger is nonetheless there, trying to reconnect with him as friend/lover/fun person to be with MIGHT. You could head a potentially dangerous situation off at the pass...some might suggest that you shouldn't have to "play games" or do anything special to redirect his attentions to you, but I am trying to keep it real here.

 

If it's all silliness, then you're wasting time with all the snooping anyway and you'd have a better time focusing on reconnecting and finding enjoyable activities and topics to share.

 

I'm not naive btw...my H IS a gaslighter so I know it when I see it. Gaslighters deny FACTS and tell you you are crazy for observing them.

IMHO it is by no means clear that this is happening to you, and jumping to the conclusion that it is could do more harm than good...

[BellaBellaBella]

Hows things going, I was worried about you? You seem like your in a bad place.

[2sunny]

He is gaslighting you big time, driving you crazy with all the double talk, trying to make you look like the crazy snoopy harpy wife. He has NO business as your husband to be carrying on long conversations and visits with another woman and certainly NOT discussing your problems. This is all being set up behind your back.

 

this is it!

 

it's HIM, not you! stop being so passive and tell him to stop ALL contact with her and ACT like he's married and committed to YOU or else move out and divorce.

 

no in between stuff... the in between stuff allows his A to continue with him shifting the blame on you.

 

do not let him have you wondering. HE IS CHEATING. when there is nothing to hide - you hide nothing.

 

he's hiding things = he's cheating... he's only mad at you because you are paying attention when he only wants to get away with this.

 

did he come home that night? where was he? i'd bet money he was with the OW.

 

stop second guessing yourself and start pointing a blatant finger at his heating a$$. he's cheating for sure.

[Confused98]

So when it got to be late I texted him and said if you need a ride home I will come get you assuming he had a lot to drink by this point. He didn't answer. So after 15 min I got in the car. His car was still at the bar, I was in pjs so I called him he didn't answer so I called a few more times. Then he texted me and said I'm staying at friends house. Luckily I knew where this was. I tried to call again and got no answer so I called the friend. No answer. So I texted that I thought it was not right to not tell me that he was staying there he said he didn't want to have the talk again. I told him I wasn't planning on it and I had planned on leaving him alone but the fact that he didn't tell me where he was or that he wasn't coming home really bothered me. Then he turned off his phone and so did the friend. So I turned the car back on and drove there. the OW answers the door She was apparently sleeping on the couch. She went and got the other friend and I asked for my husband. She led me to the room he was in. He was already in bed and looked like he had fallen asleep shortly after he turned his phone off (it took me 10-15 min to get there). I was like what's going on and he refused to talk. Then I said let's go home that wasn't happening so I was like ok then stay here whatever and stormed out of the house and preceded to break down in the car. Then I got mad I figured it was over if it went down like this and started to go back inside. I was going to grab his phone and at least have closure as to what all the texts and emails were about. Just as I was going in he came out. He was like what are you doing. I explained again that I was upset and hurt. He got his things and got in the car. I didn't want to push the subject but I asked. He said he needed a break and I said I thought I was giving you a break by letting you stay out late. He then tried to tell me that I was invited like I was always invited to come out. Which I didn't believe that he really felt like He wanted me there. He said he was tired of it. I told him that I was too and that's why I wanted to work on it. Then I let it go. It was already late he was a little drunk and it wasn't the right time to talk about it. The next day he told me pretty much how the whole night went.

[Confused98]

Not much got done during the weekend. I tried to bring it up once but he didn't seem to want to talk. I'm not going to push him to talk but I'm not going to let it go all together either. I need to make sure he realizes how hurt I am because I'm not sure he does. Anyway that's where we are.

 

Thank you all for your comments and concerns. I really appreciated it.

 

I still don't think this is an affair of any type. But there is so much potential there now. But I need to make sure my actions don't push him to it.

 

I explained to him about the EA he of course thinks it is ridiculous. I said I didn't think he was having one just that there was a possibility. He still thought it was stupid. He took it to mean he couldn't have female friends. I tols him that wasn't true and tried to explain it to him. He didn't get it. I try to keep reiterating that how would you feel in my situation. He either admits he'd be mad or doesn't say anything. But he still doesn't do anything to fix it.

 

I know I need to work on opening up conversations. I am working on that. But I want him to also. I shouldn't be the only one.

 

I don't want to push him into conversation but I don't want to wait too long either. I am not sure when the best time is to bring it up now.

[BellaBellaBella]

Instead of talking about it. Plan A him, show him what a good wife you are and what he stands to lose by losing you. Check out Marriagebuilders.

 

What I don't understand is that there are two women there and one is allegedly on the couch and where was the other?

 

Have you spoken to the women causing the problem and asked for her insight as to "what is going wrong and why he is upset with you"

[Confused98]

She wad in another room. I havent

[BellaBellaBella]

I didn't understand.

[BellaBellaBella]

Confused, why do you really think he is unhappy? Why do you think he is lashing out at you?

[Confused98]

Sorry I was trying to do two things at once. She was sleeping in another room. Hers I assume it was her house. I haven't talked to them. And to be honest don't want to. At this point they obviously are not concerned with what I think. What woman would agree to to drive another womans husband to her house without him telling his wife where he was going. I am sure it is not their fault but I would be very conscious of telling the wife. But I guess that is because I am a wife myself.

 

That is what I would like to figure out. But he is unwilling to talk about it at this point. I am going to give him a few days to calm down which is what I thought I was doing and then start out the conversation with that question.

[BellaBellaBella]

Confused,

 

What do you want to happen from here? I thought you asked him for no contact with her. Educating your husband right now is not going to work.

Do you trust him? How did this situation occur, were you having problems other then the household chores? Look at His Needs/ Her needs on kindle. Also look at the signs for cheating.

 

Your name is confused what is it your confused about?

[luvstarved]

I am still not getting the rationale that keeps suggesting that she should change the clingy/needy behavior into angry/demanding behavior if she wants to save her marriage.

 

She is driving her husband away. Whether he was thinking thoughts of another woman that way, it is by no means clear that he was having an affair. She keeps saying she is going to back off but is unable to resist crawling up his ass constantly about this. This makes her no fun to be around and surely eventually his mind is going to start thinking...either, she's controlling and nuts, or, I'm being accused, I might as well be guilty...

 

He's hiding something = he's cheating is just bulls**t. As I said before, there is no compelling evidence either way to decide if any affair was going on. He could be hiding something because he doesn't want to keep having endless discussions justifying everything he says and does. Or he could have vented about something about her and would be embarrassed for her to know what he said or not want her to feel hurt by a thoughtless remark he made about her when angry. Has nobody else here ever done that?

 

I don't believe in waiting to be blindsided but it definitely sounds like the dynamic with the other women has changed SINCE SHE STARTED acting so insecure about it. It would have been one thing to talk to him and say, I trust you, honey, but the way you interact with her is making people talk and embarrassing me, so I would feel better if you could modify your behavior. He OFFERED to end the contact but she has persisted in telling him on the one hand it's OK, and on the other that she needs to be constantly reassured about it. AND IT'S NOT HELPING!

 

Again, I can't speak to whether there is an affair, just that from what she wrote it is not a clear conclusion to jump to. But it looks like she COULD be pushing him in that direction...in other words, it sounds AT LEAST as likely that her behavior is creating an issue as that he is having an affair.

 

I maintain that the best way to get her husband to be interested in her is to be interesting. She says she wishes he could talk with her the way she does with them. Howzabout starting an interesting conversation? Maybe she has and not been well received. But I haven't read that in the posts either.

 

This is not "playing games" or "being a fool". It is trying to regain something that is slipping away under the current circumstances...

 

I suggest again that you apologize, declare a moratorium on discussing it, ask for temporary NC so you can reconnect, and go try to have some fun together. And let it go for the moment.

[luvstarved]

And may I add that nothing delights an OW wannebe more than to hear the target's wife is jealous of her, and to get him to start "opening up" about it. Yeah baby! In her sights!

[RegardingMe]

She has some gut feelings. Rather then stick her head in the sand, perhaps checking things out such as signs of cheating are in order.

 

He is putting distance in the marriage

He is putting privancy in place where if things are innocene he could simply show her and make her feel bad

Didn't answer texts and didn't come home and didn't invite her

Went to sleep at the female friends house.

 

Someone suggested to her reading Just Friends.

 

It's one of the things I did, and it clearly says confiding in a female friend about marriage problems closes the window to the spouse more and opens it to the friend.

 

Clearly there are problems and he is pushing her away. What exactly do you expect her to do sit there while he disrespects her.

 

A friend already accused them and it is noteable to others in the circle.

 

Affairs thrive in secrecy, so are you of the shut up and take it view.

 

Not me, I will fight for my marriage. She asked for opinions, doesn't mean anyone of us has the right answers for her including you straved.

[Confused98]

I am still not getting the rationale that keeps suggesting that she should change the clingy/needy behavior into angry/demanding behavior if she wants to save her marriage.

 

She is driving her husband away. Whether he was thinking thoughts of another woman that way, it is by no means clear that he was having an affair. She keeps saying she is going to back off but is unable to resist crawling up his ass constantly about this. This makes her no fun to be around and surely eventually his mind is going to start thinking...either, she's controlling and nuts, or, I'm being accused, I might as well be guilty...

 

He's hiding something = he's cheating is just bulls**t. As I said before, there is no compelling evidence either way to decide if any affair was going on. He could be hiding something because he doesn't want to keep having endless discussions justifying everything he says and does. Or he could have vented about something about her and would be embarrassed for her to know what he said or not want her to feel hurt by a thoughtless remark he made about her when angry. Has nobody else here ever done that?

 

I don't believe in waiting to be blindsided but it definitely sounds like the dynamic with the other women has changed SINCE SHE STARTED acting so insecure about it. It would have been one thing to talk to him and say, I trust you, honey, but the way you interact with her is making people talk and embarrassing me, so I would feel better if you could modify your behavior. He OFFERED to end the contact but she has persisted in telling him on the one hand it's OK, and on the other that she needs to be constantly reassured about it. AND IT'S NOT HELPING!

 

Again, I can't speak to whether there is an affair, just that from what she wrote it is not a clear conclusion to jump to. But it looks like she COULD be pushing him in that direction...in other words, it sounds AT LEAST as likely that her behavior is creating an issue as that he is having an affair.

 

I maintain that the best way to get her husband to be interested in her is to be interesting. She says she wishes he could talk with her the way she does with them. Howzabout starting an interesting conversation? Maybe she has and not been well received. But I haven't read that in the posts either.

 

This is not "playing games" or "being a fool". It is trying to regain something that is slipping away under the current circumstances...

 

I suggest again that you apologize, declare a moratorium on discussing it, ask for temporary NC so you can reconnect, and go try to have some fun together. And let it go for the moment.

 

Thanks. I am going to try and let it go for now. I do try to start conversations. It may even go well for a while. But then there's only so much I can come up with. I will continue to try this. There are plenty of things we can talk about but he seems less interested in them. I feel like he has taken a step backward in his life while I am continuing to move forward. We like alit of the same things but he seems to be acting more like he did in college and less like he has the last couple years. Probably due to stress at work. And I think he realizes that he is getting older and he sees some of his friends having families he's not ready for that (neither am I and I have made that very clear) so he clings to his single friends. But he has a wife. And even if I'm not ready to have kids I don't want to be in college again either. Been there done that it was awesome. I just need to leave him alone and let him get past whatever it is. In a couple months he will hopefully get past it. I just hoe that we don't grow apart completely in the meantime.

 

I am going to look into his needs her needs. I was reading some of the webpage last night and got some really good insight. If he is open to looking through some of this stuffs with me I an certain our marriage will be better than it has ever been.

 

I am confused about why my marriage seems to be falling apart all because my husband started being friends with some dumb girl.

 

I did read just friends. Or some of it. I stopped when I felt we needed to be going in another direction. We need to work on us. I think if we get ourselves back in order than I won't have those jealous feelings anymore. And he won't feel the need to go to the friend. I still plan in reading the whole book but I am going to try his need her needs first and see how we can work on that for now.

[luvstarved]

I am not suggesting she put her head in the sand and let him do whatever...and I also pointed out that the more he bonds with them

over this stuff the more dangerous the situation becomes.

 

But people get indignant and protective when they are falsely accused

as well as when they are guilty. She had up to the time of it all becoming

a big issue been invited more or less on all occasions in which both parties were present.

 

I saw red flags, but not of a full blown affair...more like danger potential.

It seemed that he was more accomodating of her feelings until the relentless snooping and talking about it endlessly ensued, and I was just saying that that behavior on her part is not going to make him feel any closer to her.

 

I see that a situation is DEVELOPING but not clear yet into what. And still believe that if she wants to nip it in the bud, should try to exhibit some behavior that makes him want to be around her. And if he does not welcome that, then that gives her some sort of answer, too, without having to snoop at all...

[Confused98]

So I should be working right now but I started reading the his needs her needs. I found it quite interesting so far. I would like to get h to read it. Problem is how do I do this. If he starts reading it I am afraid he will look at it as me accusing him of having an affair. I am not doing this at all but I feel the book could be very helpful to both of us. I can try to tell him upfront that it is going to get into the affair stuff but then he might not want to read it.

 

I will be reading it first than I will decide what the best way to present it to him might be. It may be better for me to point out specific chapters or highlight parts that I feel represent the way I feel and the way I think he feels. And show him those parts first than let him decide if he should read the whole book.

[BellaBellaBella]

Be culvert. There are emotional needs questionaires posted on their website. Also stuff about love busters and love bank. Plan A where you are showing him what an awesome wife you are.

[luvstarved]

I think this is a great book and a great tool to promote mutual understanding but agree with Bella(3) that showing him what an awesome wife you are is Job 1. Trotting it out right away might be too much right

now. He has to let the anger settle and look at you in a different way.

So I would read it on your own and work also on suggesting some activities you can share. Down the road, you can bring it out as an interesting book with fun quizzes that you'd be curious to take with him

and compare notes.

 

I would not bring it out as something you must act upon NOW as a marriage-saving strategy. In the end, that might be the hope, but you seriously need to reconnect with him as a fun person to be with.

[Confused98]

Thanks guys. I will not push it on him.

And first things first. Be an awesome wife!

[BellaBellaBella]

Part of being an awesome wife is not being a head in the sand wife.

 

Keep us posted! We might not think alike straved and I, but we do care what happens.

 

I send him a complimentary text, I thought you looked hot this morning....LOL

[luvstarved]

I NEVER said she should be a "head in the sand" wife. I just said that without better evidence she should not be "up husband's ass" wife either.

 

My H gaslights me like crazy and I definitely snoop on him because of it, but I don't say a word or change my mood, even if I find something slightly sketchy. I keep my mouth shut and keep gathering data until I find something that is clear. Then I let him have it! He still just gaslights

me but at least I know the truth.

 

He's not cheating or anything, except with his own hand...but still...I don't like to be lied to and don't pretend that I believe a liar when I KNOW he is

lying. When I THINK something hinky MIGHT be up, though...I stay quietly

on guard because if I bring up everything every time on just a fear, then I do come across as clingy and needy and possibly paranoid, instead of someone who isn't going to buy into bulls**t.

[luvstarved]

And personally, instead of a complimentary text, which might seem like desperate fishing...I'd find something going on around town and say, I'm going to go to event X tomorrow night? Wanna join me? If he said no,

I would NOT REPLY AT ALL and GO TO THE EVENT. If he said, I don't know, then

I'd say, well I need to know by time X, or find someone else to go with me (if such a someone is available). If he said Yes, a simple cool, sounds like fun.

 

Baby steps to not revolve around him and demonstrate to him that she is taking steps to not revolve around him.

[Confused98]

I am definitely not going to stick my head in the sand. I also am not going to snoop. Or only snoop if I get a feeling about something. But snooping is not going to do me any good. Only make feel feel worse because I can't see the texts anyway without stealing his phone. I am going to watch for signs though.

 

I actually sent him an email today just to see if he would respond and start a conversation about a topic we both will enjoy. I may have to find something and try that. I am pretty sure he would agree to go with me but I would be afraid he would invite others. I would want it to be just us or else what's the point.

 

Now my problem is with him no longer inviting me places. He usually will take the stance as I'm always in invited but I don't think he actually means it. I guess it just makes the whole thing worse for me because he used to invite me every time and now he doesn't. I will just have to bite my tongue and ignore it because I guess I am driving him away.

 

Come to think of it I am confused because this behavior is new. We spent all our time together which whether or not was good for us it was what we did. And now he doesn't seem to want to be around me anymore.

 

Sorry for the rant I had to get it out.