Fourth date: should I invite the guy over to watch DVDs if I don't plan on having sex

[Phateless]

Welcome to the current LS. It's one thing to ask questions to get a more full picture and another to ascribe every single response to some strange psychosis pulled right out of someone's arse head since none of it is sourced from anything that SadandConfused has stated on LS.

 

Example:

 

OP: I don't like ice cream.

Attacker: Your dislike for ice cream is sourced from eating 4000 lbs of ice cream when you were 5 years old. You got so sick of eating ice cream that you can no longer eat it. This really is your own fault for doing so.

OP: WTF? I never said that.

Attacker: Come on. Admit it. Maybe you demanded to be bathed in ice cream as a baby and now hate that feeling of cold. But you know it's your fault for demanding this as a baby so you'd better learn to suck it up and get over it.

OP: I give up. *rolls eyes and wanders off*

 

So true. Maybe this is what I get for all my previous complaints that this board is over-moderated. If Tony is watching, I GIVE. YOU WERE RIGHT!

[threebyfate]

So true. Maybe this is what I get for all my previous complaints that this board is over-moderated. If Tony is watching, I GIVE. YOU WERE RIGHT!

The difficulty in moderating someone who continues to throw up 4 or 5 strawmen for the opening posters to knock down in each post, is that there are no real insults stated directly, it's all inferred. When Tony reads one post at a time, it doesn't sound so bad. But if he were to follow through page after page after page of these strawmen creations, he would see that it's not only exhausting but a form of abusive behaviour.

[A O]

I already stated exactly why his posts bother me: People like you are the reason I don't post my own questions here anymore.

If you're referring to the bolded statement then that's not telling me anything.People like this are what exactly?

 

Have you read the pages and pages of this guy getting on her case? It's ridiculous. He's not trying to help her, he's clearly got it out for her. Analysis only goes so far before it's deconstruction for it's own sake and game-playing.

Read them when they first came up. Reading them all over again to bring myself back up to speed. If he's getting on her case, then he's doing little different to what you're doing to him, with the exception that 'vv' explains a great deal of his opinions. As for trying to help her - who said that's the name of the game here! A person expresses an opinion to which we either agree or disagree with, and we do so, hopefully, in a civil manner. To disagree does not automatically make that person a villain.

 

Who is misrepresenting themselves? Are you referring to the OP or the risk of a guy misrepresenting himself to her? In what way is she misrepresenting herself?

She's misrepresenting herself to this board by coming across as a person who doesn't appear to know the full ramifications of her behavior (asking a guy over to her place and making out with him also). That can't possibly mean anything can it? Yeah, right!

 

She has very little real interest in this guy, yet she continues to date him using the old 'sparks can develop over time' line. The same ole line she's probably used on many of the other 50/ 60+ guys. She's multi-dating and doesn't care to tell him (despite being an old-fashioned gal at that). And again, she's willing to 'signal' sex without the possibility of ever really going there. She sends out mixed messages galore, a behavior that others quite rightly point out amounts to game playing.

 

In this case, if a guy comes over to her house and feels that she misled him, that could be the trigger for him deciding not to ask her out again.

Indeed. But why mislead in the first place. Show some initiative, some communication skill and simply be upfront about one's intentions as early as possible.

 

Even so, what's the big deal? Why is this worth 10 pages of deconstructing her reasons for wanting to invite him over? I don't think she asked for a psychological teardown and rebuild.

There isn't a big deal. I simply see behavior that I don't agree with. vestigalvirgin is clearly in the same boat. There are lessons to be learned here, the biggest one of all being that people need to be more proactive in their dating/relationship decisions. Lots of people are economical with the truth, most will reveal their true intentions, but only if they're asked! This thread is a very good example of why we all need to be proactive.

 

 

The difficulty in moderating someone who continues to throw up 4 or 5 strawmen for the opening posters to knock down in each post, is that there are no real insults stated directly, it's all inferred. When Tony reads one post at a time, it doesn't sound so bad. But if he were to follow through page after page after page of these strawmen creations, he would see that it's not only exhausting but a form of abusive behaviour.

A strawman can be easily argued against. If you believe that certain opinions are baseless - then argue the point.

 

 

.

[donnamaybe]

A strawman can be easily argued against. If you believe that certain opinions are baseless - then argue the point.

Um, not with some people.

 

So a gal invites a guy over for dinner and DVD's and they make out a little on the couch. That, in YOUR mind, equates to full on sexual intercourse? What are we, pubescent teens who have no control over our genitals?

 

If that's the kind of guy the OP thought she was inviting over, she would already know the sex would suck anyway since he'd pop off after about 5 strokes.

[threebyfate]

A strawman can be easily argued against. If you believe that certain opinions are baseless - then argue the point.

And here we go. Not everyone wants to be accused of 4 - 5 perfidious acts per post. Not everyone wants to keep doing this in post after post. Maybe you enjoy a wall of text. Maybe you feel this is an intellectual stretch. For most people, it's deathly boring and detracts from the simple questions at hand.

 

All it takes is, it's best to send clear messages when dating. If you have him over for dinner in a private setting, it might lead to expectations of sex.

 

Haranging someone with strawmen arguments page after page after page after page after page after page after page, by ascribing psychotic schemes sourced from lala-land, you're doing nothing but attempting to insult and harass them. This IS NOT help. This IS abuse.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Its not 1820 anymore.

 

Your so right its 2010 and see how very far we have come so much positive progress what was I thinking..

[A O]

And here we go. Not everyone wants to be accused of 4 - 5 perfidious acts per post. Not everyone wants to keep doing this in post after post.

I hear you. No one wants their behavior questioned. We'd all like to think that whatever we say or do means exactly what we think it actually means and not what its perceived to mean down the other end. Here we have a case of a person simply wanting an answer to a question, but who has let slip enough information for people to perceive her actions in a certain way. vestigalvirgin's behavior has been questioned and interpreted in a manner that he totally disagrees with.

 

In other words - its all a matter of perception as most threads and posts tend to be. And how accurate or not these perceptions are depend on the rationale behind them.

 

Maybe you enjoy a wall of text. Maybe you feel this is an intellectual stretch. For most people, it's deathly boring and detracts from the simple questions at hand.

I'm intellectually lazy and don't have a great need to post much despite the amount of time I spend here. On this occasion, I read or perceive a lot more in the ensuing information to simply limit my thinking to the main question at hand. I believe that if a guy displayed similar behavior to the OP, then the resultant examination of his behavior would hardly be boring to many.

 

Think about it, the male equivalent to the OP would be a guy who needed sex, regularly, from the woman he's dating before he'll ever decide if she's long-term relationship material or not. He'd had tried this approach on 50+ women, being successful (engaged in sex) on a few occasions, and found what he was looking for on three occasions, albeit, none of those working out for any great length of time. On his latest date, he'll have minimal interest in her personality or behavior. That may, or may not grow over time. But he is thankful enough towards her to show some appreciation, in this case, ask her to go out on a date. Now though, now he has a conundrum, so he's here to ask for some advice over what he should do about this. His problem being - he's only just cottoned on to the fact that asking her out on a date might signal in her, a false belief that she might see herself as being his girlfriend (because when all is said and done, we're essentially talking about a friends-with-benefits type set-up here all round). A little heavy on the friends side for the OP, a little heavy on the benefits side if it were a guy. Now, now this guy is asking us whether he should ask this girl out on a date, knowing that this could signal something that he's not prepared to offer as yet, if indeed ever - a relationship. He's asking this question. And this is where we're at with the OP. You might not find the OP's behavior particularly interesting, but I wouldn't be surprised if you took issue with the guy in this scenario.

 

Haranging someone with strawmen arguments page after page after page after page after page after page after page, by ascribing psychotic schemes sourced from lala-land, you're doing nothing but attempting to insult and harass them. This IS NOT help. This IS abuse.

Speaking of strawmen. You're taking a posters arguments, putting your on take on things and spitting out a conclusion, that he's haranguing, harassing, call it what you will despite the poster in question already declaring that this is not his intention. Now that's a strawman - twisting someone else's views and forming a conclusion based on said twist.

 

Other than that, if these views were so baseless, so 'la la land-ish' then why the heck haven't you shot them down in flames or even attempted to do so. Your logic isn't adding up here.

 

Now, as to the real pertinent point in all this. What's the point in all this. From my side, I want people to be aware of what certain behavior means, or could mean. I want people to know that certain behavior exists, what it means and what they can do about it should they ever face it (or what they can do to avoid it ever happening to them in the first place).. I acknowledge that I'm not being helpful towards the OP, but I do believe that I, or more to the point ''vestigalvirgin' is of great assistance to those who'll ever have to face behavior exerted by the likes of the OP or the guy I gave in my example.

 

 

.

[A O]

So a gal invites a guy over for dinner and DVD's and they make out a little on the couch. That, in YOUR mind, equates to full on sexual intercourse? What are we, pubescent teens who have no control over our genitals?

If that is what some people here are implying then you're right - that's a childish, foolish argument. Not within a bulls roar of what I'm talking about however.

 

.

[flying]

She's misrepresenting herself to this board by coming across as a person who doesn't appear to know the full ramifications of her behavior (asking a guy over to her place and making out with him also). That can't possibly mean anything can it? Yeah, right!

 

Oh. My. God.

 

Cutting through all the BS and the walls of text you posted, this is the essential question. None of the rest of it matters, so I won't bother to address any of that.

 

The OP is not misrepresenting jack shxt, because she ASKED for OPINIONS about the FULL RAMIFICATIONS of inviting someone over to watch movies. It is perfectly reasonable to ask such a question. If you bothered to read the responses, you would see that opinions on the matter varied across a full spectrum, and thus it is entirely reasonable that a person wouldn't be sure how another person might take it.

 

She thus decided, PAGES AGO, that although NOT EVERYONE AGREES that inviting someone over to watch a movie at your house MUST MEAN SEXY SEXY SEXXXXYTIME, she wouldn't want to give the wrong idea inadvertently, and thus will not invite him over at this time.

 

In what way could anyone who is not fing insane construe this perfectly reasonable, logical question-and-answer thread as somehow nefarious???? Why are you people so crazy???

Edited July 20, 2010 by flying

[threebyfate]

I acknowledge that I'm not being helpful towards the OP, but I do believe that I, or more to the point ''vestigalvirgin' is of great assistance to those who'll ever have to face behavior exerted by the likes of the OP or the guy I gave in my example.

If you and "vestigalvirgin" want to postulate and grandstand, start your own thread. USING the OP and her thread to do so, isn't acceptable behaviour.

 

SadandConfused, hope you're paying attention to the above snipped excerpt. You're being trashed so the "members" can leverage off your self-esteem for their own nefarious reasons.

[donnamaybe]

If that is what some people here are implying then you're right - that's a childish, foolish argument. Not within a bulls roar of what I'm talking about however.

 

.

 

"Some people" would be VV, with whom you completely agreed.

[Phateless]

If you're referring to the bolded statement then that's not telling me anything. People like this are what exactly?

 

huh?? they create a hostile environment that prevents people from sharing - the exact opposite of the intent of this forum.

 

Read them when they first came up. Reading them all over again to bring myself back up to speed. If he's getting on her case, then he's doing little different to what you're doing to him, with the exception that 'vv' explains a great deal of his opinions. As for trying to help her - who said that's the name of the game here! A person expresses an opinion to which we either agree or disagree with, and we do so, hopefully, in a civil manner. To disagree does not automatically make that person a villain.

 

Two or three posts vs. 10 full pages is more than a little different.

 

Disagreement and attacking are a far cry. The whole purpose for this board to exist is to support people in hard times and get them through it. It's a relationship advice and support forum.

 

She's misrepresenting herself to this board by coming across as a person who doesn't appear to know the full ramifications of her behavior (asking a guy over to her place and making out with him also). That can't possibly mean anything can it? Yeah, right!

 

Not in the least. She understood the implications, which is why she posted. She said that multiple times but folks like you and vv would rather beat up on her. What does that do for you anyway?

 

She has very little real interest in this guy, yet she continues to date him using the old 'sparks can develop over time' line. The same ole line she's probably used on many of the other 50/ 60+ guys. She's multi-dating and doesn't care to tell him (despite being an old-fashioned gal at that). And again, she's willing to 'signal' sex without the possibility of ever really going there. She sends out mixed messages galore, a behavior that others quite rightly point out amounts to game playing.

 

It's the 4th date. How does she know how interested she is? That's what dates are FOR.

 

Indeed. But why mislead in the first place. Show some initiative, some communication skill and simply be upfront about one's intentions as early as possible.

 

"I want you to come watch movies but I don't want sex." That's kind of weird...

 

There isn't a big deal. I simply see behavior that I don't agree with. vestigalvirgin is clearly in the same boat. There are lessons to be learned here, the biggest one of all being that people need to be more proactive in their dating/relationship decisions. Lots of people are economical with the truth, most will reveal their true intentions, but only if they're asked! This thread is a very good example of why we all need to be proactive.

 

vv is doing more than expressing opinions. He's telling her what she's doing, how she feels, what her intentions are, etc. He's totally over the line.

 

A strawman can be easily argued against. If you believe that certain opinions are baseless - then argue the point.

 

So she's required to prove her feelings to some nutball over the internet? Wtf?

[A O]

The OP is not misrepresenting jack shxt, because she ASKED for OPINIONS about the FULL RAMIFICATIONS of inviting someone over to watch movies.

She's coming across as a person who appears to not know the full ramifications of her behavior but her question implies that she does get it, so now she's wondering- should I really go through with this?

 

It is perfectly reasonable to ask such a question. If you bothered to read the responses, you would see that opinions on the matter varied across a full spectrum, and thus it is entirely reasonable that a person wouldn't be sure how another person might take it.

It is perfectly reasonable, absolutely - as it is to question the subsequent information she supplies.

 

She thus decided, PAGES AGO, that although NOT EVERYONE AGREES that inviting someone over to watch a movie at your house MUST MEAN SEXY SEXY SEXXXXYTIME, she wouldn't want to give the wrong idea inadvertently, and thus will not invite him over at this time.

Again, she already knew this. The real problem was whether to follow through with the plan knowing this may happen. And given she's dead-set against sexy, sexy time happening anytime soon, well, understandable to think that this might be a problem.

 

In what way could anyone who is not fing insane construe this perfectly reasonable, logical question-and-answer thread as somehow nefarious???? Why are you people so crazy???

This actual question is the least of my concerns. The information surrounding all this is what's of great interest. Information that any guy dating someone like this really needs to know. So I'm pushing the 'proactive' line as a means to counter the many types out there who are very economical with the truth. People need to be more inquisitive. Most obvious question that needs to be asked here, especially if you're not a believer in multi-dating - are you seeing anyone else?

 

 

If you and "vestigalvirgin" want to postulate and grandstand, start your own thread. USING the OP and her thread to do so, isn't acceptable behaviour.

I'm using what I see before me to help people better understand what is really going here - a person displaying lukewarm interest in another (and the flow-on effect that an attitude like this tends to generate, namely, a very, very low chance of anything meaningful happening). If you don't want to be a person caught in a situation like this, then what some of us here have to say might be beneficial to you.

 

Understand though if all you want to do is answer the question.

 

SadandConfused, hope you're paying attention to the above snipped excerpt. You're being trashed so the "members" can leverage off your self-esteem for their own nefarious reasons.

I'm not trashing her, have no motive for it at the worst of times, let alone now. Simply questioning behavior and or not agreeing with someone does not make one a villain, nor the other a victim. On the other hand, if you want to trash me - fair enough. As a student of behavior, I understand that every time I open my mouth that my behavior might also be called into question, misconstrued, misinterpreted, whatever. Its the nature of the beast.

 

 

If that is what some people here are implying then you're right - that's a childish, foolish argument. Not within a bulls roar of what I'm talking about however.

"Some people" would be VV, with whom you completely agreed.

Completely agreed - no. Quoted for truth - absolutely. Have neither seen the exact wording you described within that quote nor anything implying as much.

 

 

,

[donnamaybe]

Completely agreed - no. Quoted for truth - absolutely. Have neither seen the exact wording you described within that quote nor anything implying as much.

 

 

,

 

Yet you can actually pretend not to know what it means or implies when a woman invites a man over to her place for dinner and DVDs (or whatever) after several dates?

VV claims that it means SEX with a woman invites a man over to her place for dinner and DVD's after several dates. That's as clear as it can get.

[Phateless]

Another thing - why delve into all sorts of stuff that's far beyond the scope of her question? Just because VV is in the thread, it's his job to completely evaluate her entire dating methodology? Dude, grow up. People can do whatever they want and the entire world doesn't have to abide by you and VV's dating standards.

 

I'm guessing that both you and VV have a really hard time in the dating world.

 

Chill out, live and let live.

[A O]

huh?? they create a hostile environment that prevents people from sharing - the exact opposite of the intent of this forum.

Its only hostile because you don't agree with it. People are not being hostile towards you or the OP. They're simply not saying what you want to hear.

 

The whole purpose for this board to exist is to support people in hard times and get them through it. It's a relationship advice and support forum.

I see. Somewhere along the line we need to add education to this list. Educate them in order to stop them from making mistakes either to others or to themselves.

 

Not in the least. She understood the implications, which is why she posted. She said that multiple times but folks like you and vv would rather beat up on her. What does that do for you anyway?

Too much enabling, not enough true understanding and critical analysis takes place on this board. I respect the need to support, I respect greatly, those who offer a helping hand. But there comes a time and place where offering support borders on enabling - stops folk from seeing the error of their ways. And that my friend is tragic.

 

It's the 4th date. How does she know how interested she is? That's what dates are FOR.

Indeed. But we have a bit more information than that alone to work with. Thus an opinion, theory, call it what you will has been formed based on that. Bottom line being, the chances of anything meaningful eventuating here - very slim. Her history backs up this claim.

 

"I want you to come watch movies but I don't want sex." That's kind of weird...

Said like that, I agree. Not hard to think of something appropriate to say however.

 

vv is doing more than expressing opinions. He's telling her what she's doing, how she feels, what her intentions are, etc. He's totally over the line.

Again, a matter of perception. Likewise, you, the OP and some others here aren't short on expressing what you think we're doing.

 

So she's required to prove her feelings to some nutball over the internet? Wtf?

And now he's a nutball too. C'mon. Who really is doing the trashing around here!

 

 

.

[A O]

VV claims that it means SEX with a woman invites a man over to her place for dinner and DVD's after several dates. That's as clear as it can get.

I've seen vv imply that it sends out a "signal" that sex may take place. That much is true. Otherwise I've seen no such hard and fast claim. But on the other hand, I haven't committed to memory everything he's said so I'm sure you'll be able to find the appropriate text (and not just your interpretation thereof).

 

Another thing - why delve into all sorts of stuff that's far beyond the scope of her question?

Posters often don't realize the implications of some of the information they hand out. Its a very common occurrence.

 

People can do whatever they want and the entire world doesn't have to abide by you and VV's dating standards.

Absolutely - now lets see if you can practice what you preach

 

I'm guessing that both you and VV have a really hard time in the dating world. .

Communication rules. Those who communicate well are more likely to have successful relationships than those who don't.

 

 

 

.

[flying]

 

Communication rules. Those who communicate well are more likely to have successful relationships than those who don't.

 

Ah, but being unnecessarily argumentative, high-handed, condescending, rude or controlling to the point of projecting words/thoughts onto someone else usually doesn't work out so well.

 

People find that unattractive.

 

Food for thought, for both you and VV.

[Phateless]

Its only hostile because you don't agree with it. People are not being hostile towards you or the OP. They're simply not saying what you want to hear.

 

I see. Somewhere along the line we need to add education to this list. Educate them in order to stop them from making mistakes either to others or to themselves.

 

Too much enabling, not enough true understanding and critical analysis takes place on this board. I respect the need to support, I respect greatly, those who offer a helping hand. But there comes a time and place where offering support borders on enabling - stops folk from seeing the error of their ways. And that my friend is tragic.

 

Indeed. But we have a bit more information than that alone to work with. Thus an opinion, theory, call it what you will has been formed based on that. Bottom line being, the chances of anything meaningful eventuating here - very slim. Her history backs up this claim.

 

Said like that, I agree. Not hard to think of something appropriate to say however.

 

Again, a matter of perception. Likewise, you, the OP and some others here aren't short on expressing what you think we're doing.

 

And now he's a nutball too. C'mon. Who really is doing the trashing around here!

 

 

.

 

The difference is hammering this person, not listening to their responses, and insulting them. I really don't want to go back and quote vv, but there's a lot of sarcastic, unhelpful, insulting, and borderline mean things that were said.

 

Guidance and instruction are different. If she didn't ask vv to tell her what to do it's not his place to tell her how to run her life.

[A O]

^ ^ ^

Again, in regards to my behavior, its all a matter of perception. On the other hand, I can't say the same about others here. Names have been used, colourful language extended, accusations made - the player is copping some flak rather than the opinions expressed. But, again, that's just the way things workout, from time to time.

 

 

.

[A O]

The difference is hammering this person, not listening to their responses, and insulting them. I really don't want to go back and quote vv, but there's a lot of sarcastic, unhelpful, insulting, and borderline mean things that were said.

Again - look in the mirror sometime.

 

Guidance and instruction are different. If she didn't ask vv to tell her what to do it's not his place to tell her how to run her life.

I'll have another look in the morning to see if he's telling her how to run her life. Haven't immediately picked up on that as yet.

 

 

.

[Phateless]

I've seen vv imply that it sends out a "signal" that sex may take place. That much is true. Otherwise I've seen no such hard and fast claim. But on the other hand, I haven't committed to memory everything he's said so I'm sure you'll be able to find the appropriate text (and not just your interpretation thereof).

 

I'm not going to go searching for it. If you don't see what I mean it's not worth arguing with you.

 

Posters often don't realize the implications of some of the information they hand out. Its a very common occurrence.

 

People comment on whatever strikes them and not what's being asked.

 

Absolutely - now lets see if you can practice what you preach

 

If you'd care to theorize on that, you're more than welcome to do a search and read my other threads/posts to do your own character analysis. Knock yourself out.

 

Communication rules. Those who communicate well are more likely to have successful relationships than those who don't.

 

Agreed. She's not doing anything wrong by inviting this dude over. If he assumes sex that's on him, not her.

[donnamaybe]

I've seen vv imply that it sends out a "signal" that sex may take place. That much is true. Otherwise I've seen no such hard and fast claim. But on the other hand, I haven't committed to memory everything he's said so I'm sure you'll be able to find the appropriate text (and not just your interpretation thereof).

 

But you and VV are just fine and dandy with interpreting (or should I say MISinterpreting) things the OP says.

[donnamaybe]

Communication rules. Those who communicate well are more likely to have successful relationships than those who don't.

 

Such as not assuming an implication that sex is going to take place merely because of an invitation to watch DVD's you mean?

[fishtaco]

Such as not assuming an implication that sex is going to take place merely because of an invitation to watch DVD's you mean?

 

Why not? Women usually won't say, hey come over and have sex. They always say other things. And if you take what they say at face value and don't put the moves on them, then they get all offended and think you're weak and too scared to make a move. Think for a second from the guy's perspective... we CAN'T tell the difference.

 

Again... different people have different views. You think this way, ok. But does the guy think this way? Men and women think differently, we all know that. So if you care, you would stay clear of the areas that may misrepresent you, from the guy's perspective. Just like if the guy cares, he would stay away from areas that may offend the woman, even though he doesn't think it's a big deal.

 

It's about who's in control. The man has the advantage, he does things his way, he could care less what the woman thinks. If the woman has the advantage, she would do things her way, and could care less what the man thinks. Too f-ing bad, you don't like it, you can leave. That's the attitude. And sometimes, the recipient will do exactly that -- leave.

 

I've bailed on women before just as women have bailed on me. I have had sex with women that I didn't even bother watching DVDs with. And I have failed to have sex with women that I spent money to wine and dine. I have started relationships with women before I had sex with them, and I have had sex with women that I never started relationships with. There are all kinds of situations out there. Every situation is different. It's a giant game.

 

Do what you think is right, but be aware of the consequences. In this case, maybe the wrong signal would be sent, maybe it won't. It's the OP's decision, and she has to guess what the man is going to think, if she cares.

 

But this thread is turning into a giant fight for fighting's sake.