Putting Dad in the backseat...

[Married_and_Lonely]

I'm looking for opinions from the moms and dads out there. Dads, have any of you felt like once the kids arrived, you became old news to your wife and her life switched to 100% mommy mode?

 

I read an online poll that asked women - who do you love more, your children or your husband? A large majority said, without a doubt, their children. How do you balance nurturing your child and nurturing your marriage? Yes, I know babies and toddlers are demanding and have heightened needs, but if you wait 18 years to remember you still have a hubby that wants some love, ole hubby might be in a different state. (sorry, reverted to my hick roots for a minute)

 

This topic is personal for me. I think my wife finds it easier for her to love the kids because kids can be trusted for unconditional love. For example, they don't care if you've gained weight or spent too much money, etc - your kids, especially young ones, always love you.

 

So I'll probably have more thoughts later I'll add, but I wanted to throw this topic out there for conversation.

[Stung]

The unconditional love thing is probably a factor. So is the fact that the kids depend on mom/parent so heavily.

 

In my personal experience/observation, most women who lose themselves entirely to motherhood didn't plan it that way. The ones I know were counting on having more freedom, maintaining more outside interests; they assumed they would have more outside help, and more support from the father. In these particular cases, while their husbands were well-intentioned, that hands-on support was lacking. When it became their 24/7 job to care for the kids, with very little real help from a husband who wasn't willing to sacrifice his own personal time when the kids were small, at first there was resentment which was gradually buried and left to fester, and eventually Mom just became their entire identity. Other aspects of their lives and personalities fell away, hobbies and friendships reluctantly set aside, and the sexy wife persona rusted from disuse. Sometimes this kind of sacrifice was actually necessary, sometimes it was just because the mom didn't see viable alternatives. Sometimes it's the husband/father's job to help mom see viable alternatives.

 

I often see people threatened by the idea that the love between parent and child is 'stronger' than the love between husband and wife. I believe that the parent/child bond shouldn't be compared that way or seen as something that supplants previous bonds; it's something entirely separate which can and should ideally co-exist alongside previous bonds.

[xxoo]

It troubles me when I see this dynamic in families. It isn't good for the man, the woman, or the children.

 

I do think there is a season where the mother-infant relationship is primary. Breastfeeding infants demand a LOT from a mother (physically and emotionally). How the mom and dad handle those demanding months can have impacts that last well beyond the first year. An emotionally healthy dad can step back and be patient (not needy, not demanding). An emotionally healthy mom can recognize and accept when the baby needs her less, and will seek out her partner (rather than the growing child) for emotional fulfillment.

[BellaBellaBella]

I think as a stahm your kids are a number one in lots of ways. However, for us we set a family dinner circled around Daddy coming home and we have no tv, radio etc for dinner. We then have time for each other after our child goes to bed.

[Els]

Don't you think that in many cases Dad put himself into the backseat? I don't know about there, but over where I come from, it's just deplorable to see the uneven divide of childcaring in men and women. Whenever I meet relatives who have kids, it's ALWAYS the mom carrying the baby most of the time, feeding the baby (or spoonfeeding the toddler), taking the toddler to pee, etc. Dad does do supplemental stuff such as push the pram, clean and fill milkbottles, etc, but probably 80% of childcaring is done by the mom. When something engulfs a person's life like this, how can it not threaten to engulf their identity and relationships?

 

I disagree with the unconditional love thing. If love = you care about a person's well-being, you would rush to their aid if anything threatened them, then yes, children will USUALLY unconditionally love you. If love = you enjoy spending time in the person's presence, you miss the person, you are emotionally connected to the person... no, I actually think a very significant number of children do not.

[demrea]

who do you love more, your children or your husband?

 

My wife better love our children more than me.

 

Why would a husband have an expectation that the mother of his children would not love the children more than the husband?

 

Again I don't get where that's coming from, at all.

 

its not more, its just different.

 

you cant measure love, so how would one prove it either way?

[Married_and_Lonely]

Don't you think that in many cases Dad put himself into the backseat? I don't know about there, but over where I come from, it's just deplorable to see the uneven divide of childcaring in men and women.

 

There are always two sides of the coin, and yes you are right there are different situations where the men unfairly expect the woman to do most of the work because she's the mom and that's just how it is. That isn't right, but it's not what I'm talking about.

 

I'm talking about the woman that despite a husband that helps with the childcare as much as he can when he's not working, she can never turn off mommy mode. Once she gets that cute little baby and turns into a cute toddler, it's all she lives, breathes, thinks about, talks about. She buys all the kid accessories known to man, turns the house into a big preschool, stops pursuing her hobbies, reads all of the parenting magazines, stops taking care of her body, shops more for expensive kid clothes that will only fit the child for 2-3 months than for her own clothes, loses interest in sex with her husband, etc.

 

Yes, my wife and I go on dates occasionally, but you know what we talk about on those dates? the kids... it's all she thinks about. And yes, she goes out with her friends and does stuff on the weekend while I watch the kids. I love my kids and enjoy playing with them, reading them books, bathing them, etc, but it's tough when you feel like your partner takes all of your contributions to the family for granted and showing you love and affection is the last priority on their list that usually there isn't time for.

 

It seems like some women just wanted to get married to have kids. As soon as they marry, they're ready to have those kids, and bye bye goes the intimacy and affection in the relationship.

[seibert253]

Definantly have taken a back seat to my boy. Not too much I can do about that.

 

Rather be sharing my W with my little man, than an OM.

[blossom0123]

 

I'm talking about the woman that despite a husband that helps with the childcare as much as he can when he's not working, she can never turn off mommy mode. Once she gets that cute little baby and turns into a cute toddler, it's all she lives, breathes, thinks about, talks about. She buys all the kid accessories known to man, turns the house into a big preschool, stops pursuing her hobbies, reads all of the parenting magazines, stops taking care of her body, shops more for expensive kid clothes that will only fit the child for 2-3 months than for her own clothes, loses interest in sex with her husband, etc.

 

Yes, my wife and I go on dates occasionally, but you know what we talk about on those dates? the kids... it's all she thinks about.

 

 

Hi Married and Lonely,

 

I read some of your other posts too, and I'm sorry about the challenges you are both going through. Given the wider context of your situation, do you think in your case that motherhood could also be a sort of escapism for your wife? People try to escape from relationship issues in many ways (I'm guilty myself, and I use work), through work, alcohol, or getting absorbed in one thing or another. Sounds like it would be much easier talking about the kids on a date than other serious issues you are facing (especially in a date situation where some romance is expected, i.e. the problems become an even bigger elephant in the room...).

[Married_and_Lonely]

You're probably right about my situation... by the way, that elephant in the room grows really big on the date when the table next to you in the restaurant has some lovey dovey couple.

[angie2443]

In my personal experience/observation, most women who lose themselves entirely to motherhood didn't plan it that way. The ones I know were counting on having more freedom, maintaining more outside interests; they assumed they would have more outside help, and more support from the father. In these particular cases, while their husbands were well-intentioned, that hands-on support was lacking. When it became their 24/7 job to care for the kids, with very little real help from a husband who wasn't willing to sacrifice his own personal time when the kids were small, at first there was resentment which was gradually buried and left to fester, and eventually Mom just became their entire identity. Other aspects of their lives and personalities fell away, hobbies and friendships reluctantly set aside, and the sexy wife persona rusted from disuse. Sometimes this kind of sacrifice was actually necessary, sometimes it was just because the mom didn't see viable alternatives. Sometimes it's the husband/father's job to help mom see viable alternatives.

 

.

 

I think this needs to be repeated. Fathers, if you feel resentful of the attention your children are getting from the mother, step up to the plate. Take care of the children more, and then the mother will be more able to take a break from the mother role.

[stillafool]

I'm looking for opinions from the moms and dads out there. Dads, have any of you felt like once the kids arrived, you became old news to your wife and her life switched to 100% mommy mode?

 

I read an online poll that asked women - who do you love more, your children or your husband? A large majority said, without a doubt, their children. How do you balance nurturing your child and nurturing your marriage? Yes, I know babies and toddlers are demanding and have heightened needs, but if you wait 18 years to remember you still have a hubby that wants some love, ole hubby might be in a different state. (sorry, reverted to my hick roots for a minute)

 

This topic is personal for me. I think my wife finds it easier for her to love the kids because kids can be trusted for unconditional love. For example, they don't care if you've gained weight or spent too much money, etc - your kids, especially young ones, always love you.

 

So I'll probably have more thoughts later I'll add, but I wanted to throw this topic out there for conversation.

 

 

I think the same thing applies to men. How many times do you hear guys saying the only reason they stay married is for "the kids"?

[ladydesigner]

This was a huge issue during my marriage. Mr. Messy told me he felt like he wasn't apart of us. There was me and the kids....and him. No matter how many times I asked for help or his involvement, if it wasn't deemed important enough to him(his favorite term was trivial:sick:) he wouldn't attend to it. Whether it was the kids, the housework, the shopping, the yard work...he only did it if he felt like it. I was a SAHM and he felt it was my job to all the things he thought included.

 

He was really great until kids were about a year old, then he dropped off, with both kids. It's like they were a new toy that he got bored with. He traveled so much for his job, when he was home he felt he should do as little as possible. But my job never ended. I didn't have family support in the cities we lived in and I felt isolated. My whole world included the kids. When you have to bathe with a child to get a chance at having a shower, you kinda bond . He was an excellent provider. We wanted for nothing materially but I had to ask for money to get gas.

 

I never felt like a woman/a desirable wife. I was only the "mother", the maid, the referee, the driver, the nurse. When I was pregnant with my last one my oldest had chicken pox, my doctor advised me to stay away because I had a really low immune system(throwing 24/7 has that effect:sick:). There was only me to take care of my oldest, just me.

 

I guess my point is, with the everyday grind as mother and everything else it is easy to lose one's self as a woman. If you aren't told how beautiful you are, desirable, a good partner....you loose that intamacy. It is a two way street, maintaining a relationship. I think if you want time with your wife, then you help the mother so she has time to be a wife.

 

And remember in that time, most mothers are lonely too. So a husband may not have to wait 18 years, cause ole girl may not have waited that long.

 

Very well said BNB. I think a lot of this is how much the father participates in parenting. My M was the same way, interpreted as being the kids were most important, while my H participated in very little parenting. It wasn't until my H's infidelity, then mine that all sh*t hit the fan and he stepped up and took 50% of the parenting role and guess what we all love each other THAT much. It seems equal now. The love for my kids is a nurturing love, they are of both blood and I love them both. If my H would not have participatied in the parenting role as much well it would probably still be kids 80% and husband 20%.

[Married_and_Lonely]

So it seems to be an escapism or coping technique? If you're not happy with your husband or your relationship with him isn't rewarding, then you concentrate your focus on what does make you happy - your children.

 

That makes sense.

 

So by my wife seemingly withdrawing herself from me and morphing to 100% mommy mode, I should conclude that either a) she's unhappy or dissatisfied with me, or b) the motherhood role is more enjoyable for her than that of being a wife?

[seibert253]

I can remember on occasions when my W would make comments after our little guy came on board like;

1. I don't want sex

2. I don't need sex

3. I could go the rest of my life without sex

 

Didn't sit too well with me because I knew for me that wasn't an option. Told her this but her response was she didn't care. Nice huh. If this conversation occurred prior to the little guy showing up, I'd have been done. Went 4 months once with nothing.

 

After her A and she decided she wanted to R, one of the things I insisted that our sex life needed to improve. I was insistant that things improve and she put some effort into our physical relationship or R was a waste of out time. Her C helped her tremendously in regaining what she lost.

 

Things have improved, 3 or 4 times a month most of the time, but other times it's hit or miss. Sometimes it's everyday. By no means where I'd like to be, but when I read of other guys on the board going months or years with nothing, I feel very thankful.

[xxoo]

I can remember on occasions when my W would make comments after our little guy came on board like;

1. I don't want sex

2. I don't need sex

3. I could go the rest of my life without sex

 

 

How long after birth was this?

 

I was shocked after my births how low my sex drive dropped for a while. It was the first time since puberty that I wasn't preoccupied with sex!

 

I did share those realities with my H, but it was a much kinder approach. It is what it is, you know? And I was still willing to happily try. And I certainly didn't write it off forever! I was sure (and H was sure) my libido would return....and it did. Self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

Like I said earlier, I think how the man and woman handle these early months/first year can have long lasting ripple effects. If husband and wife get in a battle over couple time in that taxing first year, it will build resentment on both sides.

[AVR1962]

Married and Lonely, I can very much identify with your original post. I have kind of asked the same question on the opposite side. It seemed to me once my husband and I got married his job became priority in his life. This was a second marriage for us both, we had custody of 4 children and it seemed I became the instant main parent role. Trying to get him to engage was nearly impossible......I asked him what he wanted to do with the kids as far as disapline, we'd agree on the way to handle the situation and then he woudl not come thru on his part. We later had a child of our own and I did still very much try to keep my husband involved and I would say he was more involved with our youngest. But what did happen is I was home the most, husband's job had him out of town at times so I knew what was going on in the home. When husband was home he seemed disconnected and soon to avoid arguements I found myself doing more with the kids and just doing everything that needed to be done without asking for his help. I think that made him resentful but I was tired of the games that's seemed to be going on, he was not communicating well. I don't know if any of this helps you. It would be my guess that your wife probably did not seek this but ratehr it just happened and I wonder what part your wife feels you play in what has lead up to your sitaution. Of my friends and even my adult chidlren who have their own families now, I do see for the most aprt the women seem to be more involved with the children than the men tend to be. My husband was glad when the kids started moving out, for me it was sad, I had spent so much of my time and my life involved in them. Today, my oldest is 29, I am still the one more engaged with our adult children and grandchildren. My hsuband seems to ahve more fun with his buddies than spending time with family.

[tommyr]

I think this needs to be repeated. Fathers, if you feel resentful of the attention your children are getting from the mother, step up to the plate. Take care of the children more, and then the mother will be more able to take a break from the mother role.

 

Here is the problem: to a wife who has switched into full-on-mommy-mode, there simply is no limit to the children's need for love, attention, care, etc. That means that the father could lead a platoon of male nannies and STILL they would fail to get everything done, leaving mom "stuck" doing the dirty work again (why can't he see that the crib pads needs cleaning? oh he forgot to empty the diaper bin again ... the clean baby bottles do NOT belong on the same shelf with coffee cups ...)

 

This mentality leaves no room for a marital relationship. Sex is now obsolete. At end of the day, mom just wants to be left alone with a gallon of Ben and Jerry's and a Babies-R-Us catalog.

[giotto]

I just wish somebody told me about the "mommy mode" before we had children. It was a total surprise to me... not just that my wife completely dedicated her life to the children after their birth (that's almost understandable), but the fact that she didn't make any effort to "resuscitate" our life as a couple... that just went! Lack of communication (on her part) didn't help... her sex drive disappeared too... recipe for a disaster... which happened...

[giotto]

I thought you said you were married to her. :confused:Why is she the only one responsible for this marriage. You have received excellent advice on talking with her and yet her you are still laying all the blame at her feet. Do you really think women know how much their lives will "actually change" when they have children. There are some ideas but nothing comes with a manual. Get a grip. Take some responsibility, she didn't get pregnant by herself and she isn't in a marriage by herself.

 

I always like the patronising tone... although it is my fault because I didn't give you the complete picture...

 

I did everything for her and our children, short of breastfeeding them myself! I tried very hard after their birth to recreate the spark, but I failed, because she wasn't interested! But it must have been my fault somehow... even getting up every night to feed the baby for 6 months (after she stopped breastfeeding) and sleeping next to them on the floor so she could have a rest wasn't enough...

[giotto]

She might not have a desire for sex due to physical/hormonal issues, or psychological issues, but she should at least realize her lack of desire is a real problem and she should want to try to address it constructively.

 

Funny, my wife finally "confessed" 3 months ago that her mental issues were the root of our problems and she said sorry for ruining my life... I always knew she wasn't 100% mentally, but never suspected it was that bad and she ever hinted or implied anything for 20 years...

[giotto]

I did everything for her and our children, short of breastfeeding them myself! I tried very hard after their birth to recreate the spark, but I failed, because she wasn't interested! But it must have been my fault somehow... even getting up every night to feed the baby for 6 months (after she stopped breastfeeding) and sleeping next to them on the floor so she could have a rest wasn't enough...

 

 

Thank you Giotto, you proved my point.

 

The sex-depriving really has little or nothing to do with how much the husband does/does not help with child care.

 

I'm not sure... maybe if I didn't help we would have divorced and I would have spared myself a few years of pain... only joking!

 

Again, if hubby doesn't help it can lead to resentment and lack of sex... how can you be so sure?

[xxoo]

The difference is that you evidently loved and cared for your husband.

 

You were not selfish.

 

Very true, but it is a two way street. My husband was pretty selfless, too. He never once (not once!) pestered for more sex in those "low" months.

[giotto]

What you perceive as indifference may actually be medical. If you investigate and find out that isn't the case, then you look for another answer. Yes, I said to "get a grip" because if you don't...where will your family end up?

 

it was medical and another zillions things...

 

I've already gotten a grip and she has as well and we are on the road to recovery... what saddens me is that it had to take 15 years and a near divorce to get to this... we are still not there, but communication has improved and at least I know what's going on...

 

On a final note: I think there are a lot of women who just "assume" things, especially after birth... we haven't given birth, we will never have a baby, so often we don't understand what it really means... we can guess, but it's not the same...

[Married_and_Lonely]

Dude.

 

In my prior post in this thread, I suggested that you actually sit down with your wife when there are no distractions, and in a calm, non-threatening manner, try to actually talk to her about this stuff.

 

Vestigal,

 

We've had the talks.. you can read "Way too young to be in sexless marriage" to catch up on my entire, messed up situation but here's the cliff notes:

 

• we've had two big talks (1 a year ago, and the 2nd almost 2 months ago) - no changes, just more distance between us and frequent cold shoulders
  
• no matter how delicately I've tried to express my feelings about unmet needs w/out trying to blame her, she gets defensive and makes excuses instead of agreeing that it's a problem or expressing interest in changing
  
• she usually ignores my carefully crafted messages and tries to read between the lines and translates it as "you're an awful wife"
  
• she doesn't think sex is essential or an expression of love
  
• in her words, sex has "never done much for her" which I take to mean even before we had kids
  
• she doesn't miss sex when we don't have it
  
• my sex drive which used to be lamborgini high is falling by the day because when we do have sex 2-3 times a year, she lays there motionless only in missionary position only and lets me do 100% of the effort. I have to move her hand onto me if I want her to touch me.
  
• currently i'm trying to get her to go to counseling, but I've asked twice so far and she's said no both times
  
• i bought the "5 love languages book" but she put it away in my drawer and when I encourage her to read it because "i've read most of it and it's a pretty good book", I get excuses about her being busy
  
• i tell her affection is important to me and it's missing from our marriage and is a bad example for our kids, i'm told "my parents weren't affectionate and it's not easy for me".
  
• i think she might be depressed some
  
• she has a low image of her body; she hates it because it's slightly overweight although she hides the weight well and i think she still looks thin
  
• i think she doesn't like sex because it requires her to trust me and give up some control of her body to me (vulnerability), and she's a very protective, private person
  
• i ask her, "what's wrong? would you like to talk about it" and i'm told "nothing, i don't want to talk about it right now.. later" but later never happens
  
• i used to go out of my way to try to prop up her self esteem and show her affection, and praise her, only to get a lukewarm response but now i'm losing the will to do it because i've probably got one foot of our marriage at this point
  

Disclaimer: that's all of the ugly stuff and no it's not fair to her. She's actually a great person and a great mom and a mostly good wife. She cooks, cleans, and takes care of the kids more than I do because they just gravitate to her and she's a SAHM. She's a very smart, independent, strong woman. She's just selfish and is horrible with communication, intimacy, and affection.

 

So if you can fix all of that, call up Oprah and you may be the next Dr. Phil.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely