Wanting to be the best but being the opposite because of it.

[Thierro]

I always want to be the best. I don’t want to settle for anything less in general.

 

Especially in relationships the whole ‘wanting to be the best’ doesn’t work out for me. I want to be the best kisser, the best in bed. In every sense of the word; I want to pleasure her mind, body and soul. Giving her feelings she has never experienced before in general. I know that everything a person experiences is about personal preference, so I am bound to ask my girlfriend if she likes the way I kiss, make love to her, how I let her feel throughout the day. This comes over as insecurity. Is it truly so bothersome that I ask these things? Sure, I can feel like a sex god, but that doesn’t actually make me one. So I will need guidance from the girl I am with to become a sex god. I need to ask. Right? I am now referring to intimate things, but I want to be the best for a girl in general.

 

The other dilemma here is that I become TOO aware of things I do. When I kiss her my mind goes; Am I doing it well, does she like it? Am I the best? Same goes for the love making, massaging and other pleasures. I become so aware of myself and things that I dislike what I am doing and become insecure because I am not enjoying the things that I do and know that if I don’t let myself go, she will notice this in performances. It is like I am transferring my mind into hers at these moments. Trying to feel what she feels. After a while it gets weird. The more I WANT to not think about it, the more I do. And not thinking about something is something I can’t control when I want to be the best. It’s not easy to settle for just; I am trying my best.

 

Do you have any insights of how I can take control over this? I want to be the best out of love. So my intentions aren’t bad. But wanting to be so gives us both less pleasure in things. I can’t cope with the fact that I am not better.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Thierro

[Ronni_W]

I want to pleasure her mind, body and soul.

Thierro, if you REALLY wanted to pleasure her mind...would you be doing something that you know she finds "bothersome"? Or would you stop doing it so that she can have peace of mind?

 

From your post, you're obviously intelligent and a deep thinker. And, yes, partners do need to ask their mates what they like and dislike. BUT. Partners also need to listen to, and accept (trust), their mates' answers...and not just keep asking the same questions over and over again.

 

What pleases your own mind, body and soul? Do you know, and have you shared this with her? That is also part of being the best possible partner that you can be. (Which does not mean the same thing as "the best who has ever lived".)

 

You might strongly consider looking inside of yourself. There is obviously a part that does very much want to please your girlfriend. But I think you'll find that there is also a big part that is very much in the business of just satisfying your own needs and insecurities. Which is totally fine...as long as one has the self-awareness and can acknowledge one's own self-interested motivations and desires. We all have them. If you think-believe that you don't, then you are experiencing a case of self-deception.

 

Reaching YOUR unique highest potential also means knowing yourself inside out, and not ignoring, denying or pretending away your own 'shadows' and areas in which you can improve on a personal level (that has nothing to do with ANYBODY else except you.)

 

Best of luck.

[Meaplus3]

You need to lower your expectations of yourself. Always striving to be the best.. is tough, and in that given moment when your not at your best.. it's enough to make ya turn in the opposite direction.. this I understand. So, lower the bar just a bit and try and relax. See all the good in yourself and just be who you are. Because if you focus on beign who you are, then your best will shine through. Good luck.

 

Mea:)

[Thierro]

‘best’ is indeed subjective. This is the main reason I ask things.

 

Ronni: It’s funny that you mention that, because I am very aware of that. Even with that said, my mind keeps going on and on and on. People in general always tell me ‘you think too much’. I really can’t help it. It is who I am. I want to learn from situation, reflect on them, be the best I can be. I never stop thinking. I evaluate every moment, I appreciate every moment and I want to get the best out of every moment, but by living so internally I actually neglect these moments, because I don’t fully enjoy/live them. I don’t want to take things for granted. I want to live every day as fertile as I can. I am too caught up when I do so. This is a positive view, but one that, for now, has a bad outcome. I will need to fix this, but it’s not that easy.

 

It seems very black and white to me. When I stop thinking and appreciating (almost impossible when I would see my girlfriend do something cute) the moment will just pass so quickly and before you know it, it (life) is over and I will hit myself in the head for the fact that I didn’t fully appreciated the things that are important.. But when I give into every thought I have, as mentioned before, I will live life less powerful.

 

‘What pleases your own mind, body and soul?’ I know the answers, but the wrong thing I DID ( I will try to do it different now) is placing myself second place. It was more important to me that I fulfilled her needs instead of my own. Because I love her and yes, due to insecurities. And sure it were also my own self-interested motivations and desires, because being in a relationship is like a hobby to me. I really enjoy making someone happy.

 

Mea: Maybe I am too hard on myself. I should give things time and try to enjoy more. I give it my best and that is all I need to know. Being less focused on a perfect outcome and just give my pure love.

 

Just breathe in and breathe out.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Thierro

[Feelin Frisky]

I always want to be the best. I don’t want to settle for anything less in general.

 

Especially in relationships the whole ‘wanting to be the best’ doesn’t work out for me. I want to be the best kisser, the best in bed. In every sense of the word; I want to pleasure her mind, body and soul. Giving her feelings she has never experienced before in general. I know that everything a person experiences is about personal preference, so I am bound to ask my girlfriend if she likes the way I kiss, make love to her, how I let her feel throughout the day. This comes over as insecurity. Is it truly so bothersome that I ask these things? Sure, I can feel like a sex god, but that doesn’t actually make me one. So I will need guidance from the girl I am with to become a sex god. I need to ask. Right? I am now referring to intimate things, but I want to be the best for a girl in general.

 

The other dilemma here is that I become TOO aware of things I do. When I kiss her my mind goes; Am I doing it well, does she like it? Am I the best? Same goes for the love making, massaging and other pleasures. I become so aware of myself and things that I dislike what I am doing and become insecure because I am not enjoying the things that I do and know that if I don’t let myself go, she will notice this in performances. It is like I am transferring my mind into hers at these moments. Trying to feel what she feels. After a while it gets weird. The more I WANT to not think about it, the more I do. And not thinking about something is something I can’t control when I want to be the best. It’s not easy to settle for just; I am trying my best.

 

Do you have any insights of how I can take control over this? I want to be the best out of love. So my intentions aren’t bad. But wanting to be so gives us both less pleasure in things. I can’t cope with the fact that I am not better.

 

 

No offense but your attitude is completely backward (in other words diametrically wrong). Everyone is responsible for their own pleasure and "..Giving her feelings she has never experienced before in genera..l.) is not something you have to give--it is something for her to take. Many people get this orientation that they want to give someone else what is not their's to give. While unfortunately there is a dearth of especially females that become oriented to learning how to communicate, how to move, how to think, what is OK to think about and how to get orgasms that are there to achieve--instead they become wrongly oriented to believe that the man must magically give all of these things by learning what the woman want through telepathy.

 

There is no goddamn telepathy. I understand and support the drive to want to be great at everything if not the best, but by assuming that, you are giving her what you think she wants instead of what she actually does want. I can see that turning a girl off--it's like a form of arrogance.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Feelin Frisky

[Thierro]

You are absolutely right. Also the reason I acknowledge it. I know it isn’t healthy, so I am here on LS to get some input from others to work this out.

 

‘by assuming that, you are giving her what you think she wants instead of what she actually does want’

 

She knew I wanted to be the best and that I worked at it to change it in a healthy state of being, because it clearly isn’t. What she always said to me was; ‘You want to BE 120%, while I only WANT 80%. 80%= 100%’.

 

But changing this around, even by knowing it, costs a lot of time and introspection. I know all the reasons my ex broke it off with me. I was a work in progress and needed more time to change. I am just looking for the right tools to do so.

[TaraMaiden]

I'm going to post this, purely because you have approached me on the subject elsewhere, and you have shown an interest. I'm not forcing this on you in any way, but by virtue of the fact that such discussion is evident in another of your threads, I feel more comfortable being able to venture this view:

 

There is a piece of advice in Buddhism, about a musician, and his guitar:

The young musician is attempting to follow a good, virtuous and righteous life, and be the best "follower" he can be. he wants to be the best meditator, the best student, the best disciple and the best Monk he could be. better than the others. So he is asked the question;

"Tell me, if your guitar strings are too slack, does your instrument play well?"

"No, not at all. The sound is dull, off-pitch and distorted. it is not pleasing to the ear, and entertains nobody."

Tell me, if your guitar strings are too tight, does your instrument play well?"

"No, not at all. The sound is screeching, hard on the ear, and very off-putting. There is no pleasure listening to such an instrument, and the strings are rendered fragile, brekable and useless."

"Tell me, if your guitar strings are at the perfect tension - neither too slack, nor too tight - does your instrument play well?"

"Oh yes, indeed! The tunes are melodious, and a pleasure to play and listen to. Everything stops for this perfect instant of harmony!"

 

"Then so must your practice be at perfect pitch.

neither too loose, nor too tight.

Make Good effort. not too little, and not too much. Perfection is not within our grasp, and never should be. But we should practice in such a way, as to make our lives and efforts tuneful and melodious."

 

Thierro?

 

your strings are waaay too tight.

 

you need to relax, loosen up a bit, and chill.

The harshest critic of you, is you.

But others lose patience with your quest for perfection, because as has been said, your efforts seem there to make you feel good, not them feel good.

In order to make others happy and dance to the melody, you have to alter the tension.

[denise_xo]

I always want to be the best. I don’t want to settle for anything less in general.

 

Especially in relationships the whole ‘wanting to be the best’ doesn’t work out for me. I want to be the best kisser, the best in bed. In every sense of the word; I want to pleasure her mind, body and soul. Giving her feelings she has never experienced before in general. I know that everything a person experiences is about personal preference, so I am bound to ask my girlfriend if she likes the way I kiss, make love to her, how I let her feel throughout the day. This comes over as insecurity. Is it truly so bothersome that I ask these things? Sure, I can feel like a sex god, but that doesn’t actually make me one. So I will need guidance from the girl I am with to become a sex god. I need to ask. Right? I am now referring to intimate things, but I want to be the best for a girl in general.

 

The other dilemma here is that I become TOO aware of things I do. When I kiss her my mind goes; Am I doing it well, does she like it? Am I the best? Same goes for the love making, massaging and other pleasures. I become so aware of myself and things that I dislike what I am doing and become insecure because I am not enjoying the things that I do and know that if I don’t let myself go, she will notice this in performances. It is like I am transferring my mind into hers at these moments. Trying to feel what she feels. After a while it gets weird. The more I WANT to not think about it, the more I do. And not thinking about something is something I can’t control when I want to be the best. It’s not easy to settle for just; I am trying my best.

 

Do you have any insights of how I can take control over this? I want to be the best out of love. So my intentions aren’t bad. But wanting to be so gives us both less pleasure in things. I can’t cope with the fact that I am not better.

 

On the bit in bold:

Communication about what works and what doesn't in a sexual relationship isn't bothersome, it's a must for most couples. Bu it's bothersome if it is clear that the person who is asking isn't relaxed, and is constantly asking to reassure him/herself, and therefore probably isn't enjoying it. Why, because firstly, you are not really asking because you want to make it special for her, you are only speaking to your own insecurity. Secondly, because most women (and men, I'm assuming) feel good about sex when they also sense that their partner is relaxing and enjoying it - and it doesn't sound like you're doing that.

 

Sometimes feeling like a sex god DOES kind of make you one - because confidence matters, in bed as elsewhere.

 

I'm not saying this is only about your own insecurity, I think it's good that you want to tune into your partner's preferences and that you are thinking about her pleasure. But YOU also deserve a sex life that you enjoy, that makes you feel, well if not like a sex god, then pretty damn good about having sex and being intimate with the woman you love! And it's also your girlfriend's responsibility (as well as yours) to make that happen, so sex shouldn't only be about pleasing her.

 

How can you take control over this? Seems to me there's a long and short term aspect to this:

 

In the short term:

- try to tune in to your GF's nonverbal clues. As long as she is honest with you (which is outside of your control), it should be fairly easy for a sensitive guy like you to detect from her body language and noise if she's into it when you're making out. If she is, try to stop thinking, step back and enjoy it, and just do MORE of what makes her go wild and make sure you also tell her what makes YOU go wild.

- if your general impression is that she is pretty comfortable with your sex life, then once in a while make sure that you don't ask, just take her... as you want to take her. And make sure you ENJOY it!! She already knows that you're tuned into to her needs, so if you're doing something she really doesn't want, she'll probably tell you (and it IS her responsibility to tell her, not yours to constantly reassure). Chances are she'll be pretty happy seeing you confident and enjoying her in bed.

- STOP constantly asking her if she is enjoying it - it might cause a dynamic where, in the end, she will be so fed up of it that she will lie to you and say she is even when she's not, to get on with it. You don't want that. Whenever you feel you want to ask those questions, take a step back and ask yourself "is there actually something tangible happening now that gives me a reason to worry? any indicators that she really isn't good with what you're doing already?" If the answer to that question is no, don't ask. If it's yes, go ahead, but ask in a confident way, not like 'oh sweetheart I want to make sure that you are allright, did that feel good for you', but more like 'you are so hot and I want to give you an orgasm that sends you through the floor, if I do x, y, z would that do the job' or whatever (OK, not the best example, but do you get the point? proactive, confident, I-know-I-can-give-you-really-good-sex kind of attitude). At the end of the day, she wouldn't continue making love to you if it was all that bad in the first place, right?? It's not like you're forcing her ;-)

 

In the long term:

Do whatever might work for you to address your insecurity/ perfectionist issue - IC, meditation, self help books, martial arts, buddhism, whatever - as has already been said what's 'best' for different people differs - but start exploring this with an open mind and check out different things and how they work for you, or not. You're sound like an intelligent guy so I'm sure you'll get somewhere with this if you just address the issue head on.

 

Be the best for yourself! That's how you can be the best for others.

Edited July 18, 2010 by denise_xo

[Ronni_W]

People in general always tell me ‘you think too much’. I really can’t help it. It is who I am. I want to learn from situation, reflect on them, be the best I can be.

There is NOTHING "wrong" with thinking 24/7/365...if that's what gets your motor going.

But you are not entitled to just keep vomiting out your thoughts and ponderings onto those around you. You're not entitled to use "who you are" to control others, or to interfere with their peaceful enjoyment of life. I know it may be difficult to see, but that is what you're attempting to do.

 

I appreciate every moment and I want to get the best out of every moment, but by living so internally I actually neglect these moments, because I don’t fully enjoy/live them. I don’t want to take things for granted.

There is a set of underlying inaccurate/misguided beliefs influencing you, Thierro. In truth and fact, it is the opposite: We cannot truly, deeply, genuinely appreciate our 'now' moments if we are focused more on the external than the internal.

 

It needs "mindfulness", and mindfulness is about having a quiet, calm mind from which we can observe and learn from the world around us. Other people cannot "teach us" our insights and life lessons; and we surely cannot make them responsible to do that or try to "force" them, by just keep asking them our questions and expecting/demanding that they answer us.

 

I know that you don't mean to, but the way you're doing things now puts an extraordinary burden of responsibility on the people you love. Your wise decision would be to work on your own insecurities, and repair your own mental errors and wrong beliefs.

 

If you enjoy reading, you could try any/all of the following:

~ The Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle

~ The Art of Power, by Thich Nhat Hanh

~ Ruling Your World, by Sakyong Mipham

~ Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda, by Freeman and DeWolf (all about mental errors, of which "perfectionism" and "black or white thinking" are two biggies.)

 

Best of luck.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Ronni_W

[Thierro]

I had to think things over for a while before replying to the last two post of mine here on LS.

 

TaraMaiden:

 

I hope I will meet people like you in the future that I can befriend. I could listen to you talking for hours and hours. You are very insightful and very interesting. I strongly believe that you are able to change people’s life (guide them in a specific way) with the knowledge and experiences you possess. You have my respect.

 

I’m also a guitarist and your story fits very nicely. I am going to print this post and the other one out because the advice you people gave me does help a lot. My strings are, indeed, way too tight. After reading the replies I have a good feeling about myself. My inner dialog has find piece for a while. But I am sure that it’s going to be a battle sometimes; a battle between the peaceful, collected mind and the restless urge to become the too-tight-stringed guitar. I need to slap myself in the face whenever this will occur. I need to know better.

 

First of all; ‘the healthy boundaries’ topic. It comes all down to me. I need to work on myself-worth and love and so a great deal of my insecurities will fade. So unreasonable actions towards a new relationship won’t be the matter. Boundaries don’t have to be set. They aren’t needed when both parties have a good sense of morality. I need to believe and trust myself. I need to be proud of what I do and who I am.

 

Changing the whole ‘I want to be perfect’ thing is still very hard though. Especially because I am very conscious about myself. Everything I do is monitored by myself. For example; When I talk I will listen to what I say, how I say it and I will look at the other persons expressions, the way he/she is holding themselves, are responding and behaving in every small nuance. I always reflect on every situation in detail. Kind of like a movie shot where you see two people talking and you only hear the thoughts one has during the conversation; this is me 24/7. I completely screw op interactions this way because my mind is too busy doing all kinds of other stuff. I can’t help it. I am always busy trying to figure out how I can live life the best way possible or act in the best way I can. Because I don’t want life to end with me thinking; what if..

 

I don’t know how to stop this and change it. I am stuck in my head and don’t have the tools to get out. ‘Just let it go’. Easier said than done. I can change myself with logic and thinking the right things, but by doing so I will caught up in my thoughts; the opposite of what I want to achieve. I can’t just shut my thoughts off. The next time I will kiss a girl again I know my mind will go like; ‘don’t think too much, It’s ok, enjoy yourself, let yourself go.’ It’s good that I think like that and not like; ‘Does she like it? Am I the best kisser in the world?’. Maybe when I find enough inner piece by having a healthy amount of self-worth, this will no longer be a problem.

 

Denise, your post was also very helpful. I could never enjoy sex, because I was only focused on her needs. Always busy trying to be the best lover. I couldn't settle for less. It was a trust issue. It must have been. If something was wrong, she would have communicated this to me. I shouldn't have asked her over and over if she felt good about everything, if she didn't miss anything and so on.

 

About the breaking up with the ex (it’s an optional read for those who want to know)

 

I thought a lot about why it ended. She told me she didn’t want to be in a committed relationship, that she needs to know what is more to life, she needed space (in a LDR). Previous to that she told me the only thing she wanted is for her and me to live together, share our lives together and enjoy life just the two of us. (Never merge into one!)

 

I was an insecure guy, about myself, other men, not being perfect enough. Ronni, I indeed asked her over and over and over if everything is ok. I always needed validation. I know I need to work very hard on repairing my mental errors.She knew I was trying really hard to change this. I knew that every time I was being honest about my feelings that I slowly pushed her away. Being afraid of losing her; that the self-fulfilling prophecy will slap me in the face. I couldn’t help myself. Everything felt so great that I wanted to do everything to hold on to it. In the end I suffocated her.

 

I listened to her. When she would ask for space, I would give it to her. She accepted my insecurities because she could relate to it. The only thing I had to do was being honest to her; the only way to have a successful relationship. I think my insecurities smothered and killed our relationship.

 

The reason why I am so insecure about other men is because I learned the way of the pick-up artist. The scientific reason to why people love and want each other. I knew which trades were very appealing to women. I had the knowledge but I had to fake it. When she and I got in to the relationship, for the first time in my life, I showed her who I really was and because of this I became very insecure. I was afraid that ‘natural’ Pua’s would take her away from me.

 

I shouldn’t have started the relationship. I needed to get my act together. I need to live my own life. Be proud of what I do and hold on to my beliefs. Finding my own enjoyment, not being responsible for others. I need to calm down.

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Thierro

[denise_xo]

 

Changing the whole ‘I want to be perfect’ thing is still very hard though. Especially because I am very conscious about myself. Everything I do is monitored by myself. For example; When I talk I will listen to what I say, how I say it and I will look at the other persons expressions, the way he/she is holding themselves, are responding and behaving in every small nuance. I always reflect on every situation in detail. Kind of like a movie shot where you see two people talking and you only hear the thoughts one has during the conversation; this is me 24/7. I completely screw op interactions this way because my mind is too busy doing all kinds of other stuff. I can’t help it. I am always busy trying to figure out how I can live life the best way possible or act in the best way I can. Because I don’t want life to end with me thinking; what if..

 

I don’t know how to stop this and change it. I am stuck in my head and don’t have the tools to get out. ‘Just let it go’. Easier said than done. I can change myself with logic and thinking the right things, but by doing so I will caught up in my thoughts; the opposite of what I want to achieve. I can’t just shut my thoughts off. The next time I will kiss a girl again I know my mind will go like; ‘don’t think too much, It’s ok, enjoy yourself, let yourself go.’ It’s good that I think like that and not like; ‘Does she like it? Am I the best kisser in the world?’. Maybe when I find enough inner piece by having a healthy amount of self-worth, this will no longer be a problem.

Not thinking will also increase the enjoyment of things. I could never enjoy sex, because I was only focused on her needs.

 

 

Of course it's hard, but you are asking yourself all the right questions and I think that's half of the job done (even though the other half is a long term project).

 

Regarding tools, here are some tools that have worked for me (I have/ have had similar issues and can relate to a lot of what you're saying):

 

- meditation, or a variant of meditative practices such as yoga or martial arts such as tai chi, are particularly useful for working with 'shutting thoughts off'. Common to all of these activities is that they facilitate (or have as a goal) to stop 'useless' streams of thought. Meditation is, IME, one of the more difficult ones; the advantage of things like yoga and tai chi is that you need to focus on coordinating different parts of your body to go in different directions - this helps clear your brain because if you start thinking about something else then you lose concentration and you will simply not be able to participate in the exercise. An advantage with meditation is that it is easy to fit into a busy schedule, you can to ten minutes in the morning and evening or at some point during the day when you find the time. Music or focussing a candle can be helpful. Alternatively, there are also a number of concentration exercises to be found online that might also be useful for you. Using all of these tools is a long term project and if you decide to try it out, don't expect instant results. A little bit every day is better than two hours every other week.

 

- counselling can be tremendously helpful IME and I would recommend that for you, given that it sounds like you have internalised some negative thought patterns that you could do with some help getting out of. Putting 'stuff' on the table and out into the open and facing it head on also helps to minimise it.

 

- if you're into reading, I think Ronni gave you some good references and I would also recommend 'Second Circle' (US)/ 'Presence' (UK) by Patsy Rodenburg. I personally have also benefitted from reading Sufi literature.

 

Anyway, this is just me and might not work for you, but these are some examples of tools that quite a lot of people use to address your type of issues.

 

It's really all inside you. While it's a challenging task you have ahead, the good thing about your situation is that it's all in your power to change it.

Edited August 4, 2010 by denise_xo