Not looking to debate my questions... but rather responses to a specific question

[GreenEyedLady]

Some BS's don't want to talk to the OP at all.

 

The OP in this case has stated that the BS does not want to communicate with her.

 

To push it would be to have the BS think she is a stalker and possibly get a RO.

 

GEL

[fooled once]

You know what, there are few that really irk me here... but fooled you are certainly one of them.

 

Not OWL, not BB, not NJ, Silk, Syd... so don't make it about "all who oppose" as I can see you typing it away.

 

I find it utterly amazing how much time you spend spewing your VERY specific thoughts ( they don't change much no matter who you are replying to). And I have always thought you strike me as a BS.... in fact very much so!

 

I don't care what you think or don't think... to be very honest. It takes a fairly opened mind to understand wanting what is best for someone while admitting you also have a stake in it (haven't denied that).

 

I would really appreciate it if you would NOT put words in my mouth and more importantly write as if you actually know my THOUGHTS.

 

You do not.. you are determined to see what YOU want to see, what YOU believe.

 

Nothing productive, nothing beneficial to that and to be honest.... even if valuable advice, the way it is delivered - I certainly wouldn't give it a second glance.

 

Ditto on the bolded

 

Sorry, not a BS. Never have been. Never will be

 

My words obviously struck a nerve with you -- examine that. Examine your defensiveness/anger at those of us who are telling you what WE see. We know you don't like it ... that we are seeing what you aren't.

 

Again, sit down with him and his wife. Do it today, just to make sure you are ALL on the same page, not just what he tells you.

 

Myowntwofeet -

 

Dont get so upset, think about this for a minute or two:

 

You have hindsight right, at least in some experiences and scenarios?

And you no doubt have used it when you have looked back at certain situations and said to yourself : WTF was I thinking???

 

And you know, that no matter how hard you try to pass on what you have learned to someone else...you cant. Its frustrating.

Many of the "situations" , conversations, ideas, scenarios, perspectives brought here into the infidelity/OW forums have been lived play by play. As unique as we each are, as unique as each relationship IS...they are also that similar. The patterns and conversations of affairs and infidelity , are amazingly (to me) alike.

 

So - sometimes what feels like criticism, regardless of the approach, is just someone else trying to give you their hindsight - urgently. lol.

And my own experience here has taught me...that as time has gone on and my perspective/life changed...the people that I most didnt care for...some of them were right.

 

There are lot of the WTF moments here

 

Ditto

 

MOTF:

 

You say that you are happy with the ways things are.

 

I don't understand how you can be happy that he loves another woman.

 

If your question is how does he become independent, I would have to ask what does independent mean to you?

 

One can be independent and still be in a R and even married. Why should someone have to live alone to be independent? Also, he has to want to be less dependent on his W.

 

But really, I don't think independence is the issue. This man you are in love with is not leaving. Men do not leave their W's when they love them. That just doesn't make sense. The only thing that there is a possibility of is him growing more attached to you and falling out of love with his W. But as long as he claims to love her, he's staying where he is. Out of love. (Although, his W could leave him. I can't see anyone putting up with this.)

 

Instead you need to focus on you and what you want to happen. If you want to stay in the R, you'll have to find acceptance of the way things are and have realistic expectations of the future. I'm not saying settle in the least but realize there are limitations. And if you're seeing him only one time a week for a short while, that's tough, on you.

 

Also, don't talk exclusively about the R and whether he's leaving etc. If you're in a R, you have to cultivate it. Don't focus on his life at home while you're together. He has a counselor and you have a counselor.

 

I hope this helps a little.

 

GEL

 

Ditto - especially the bolded.

 

And FYI - I am happily married, yet extremely independent. GEL is right, a person can be independent in a marriage.

[fooled once]

Hi CCL

 

I would have no problem sitting with her and I have emailed her twice throughout this. That is not her personality, she was not comfortable with the small amount of communication and I would put her in a very uncomfortable situation to ask her to sit down.

 

She does know I am more than open to it, and she is more than welcome to contact me at anytime.

 

I don't see it happening anytime soon, but she does clearly know I would be willing to talk.

 

How do you know she is unwilling to talk? Did she tell you this or did her H tell you this?

[Myowntwofeet]

I am not going to quote everyone.....sorry, only have a few minutes.

 

FO - " I clearly hit a nerve, you should examine that".

 

I don't have to - I can tell you why you hit it. You put words in my mouth and ASSUMED you know my thought process, nothing and I mean NOTHING irks me more in ANY situation. Nothing to examine

 

His WIFE knows. End of discussion. I know this personally, not threw him.... and she knows she is welcome to contact me at anytime. She is not comfortable with it, and until she is - I will not approach her. I opened the door.

 

As for loving two women, how can I handle that?

 

Do you know how many WS actually love both - far more than anyone is willing to admit. I actually would have thought he was a calculating, manipulative man had he not loved the women of his children.

 

Love has several variables and is not black and white... in fact it is anything but. I have no problem knowing his loves her, none.

 

And ironically, I love my EX... to this day - and even more ironic MM was fine with that honesty when we were together..... again, that is me. I was with my EX for many years and are still in communication.... and I still love him...simply not in a romantic relationship way.

 

I appreciate a great deal that was said... and while I may have gotten my panties in a knot regarding FO's comments... it was primarily because I have not rudely put down differing opinions, I have thanked those that respectively voiced thier own opinions.

 

The difference between those posters and FO's and also Jwi was the tone and the assumption that they were capable of knowing what I was thinking/feeling.

 

They do not, and it is not appropriate to suggest they do, regardless of what their intent is.

[Phateless]

I'd say don't leave yet, but take some time away to be on your own and clear your head. Go on trips with friends, spend the weekend camping, whatever. Some distance and perspective is good.

[2sure]

Do you know how many WS actually love both - far more than anyone is willing to admit.

 

A MM not being able to choose because he has feelings for both his wife and OW is I think one of the biggest and most openly discussed topics in this forum - whether its in Infidelity, OW, or separation/divorce. Its admitted alright.

 

The thing is, when a MM claims/is unable to decide between the two...

because he loves both...thats the same as saying:

Doesnt love wife enough to stop seeing OW AND

Doesnt love OW enough to leave wife

 

The two of you are in competition - in his mind (he is weighing) and actively with each other - you are still in contact with him, she still lives with him while knowing the other is important to him.

 

Thing is, you are both competing only for second and third place.

 

He loves neither of you as much as himself. His unwillingness to make sacrifices for love is being called an inability to make a decision. Thats crap.

[jj33]

The question is

 

Alone, without the finances, fear of disappointment, fear of being alone, fear of colleagues, what would he do?

 

I dont know if this is still your question but there is no way to leave and "be independent" without facing those issues head on.

 

Leaving and living on his own brings up financial issues, leaving means risking losing his marriage which he has not yet decided he doesnt want or he wouldnt still live at home, colleagues will know that he has left, etc

 

The point is this is purely hypothetical. The time out from his life will never exist.

 

I still stand by my original post. He is a grown man. He needs to make big boy choices. Not acting is a choice in and of itself.

 

Whether he is paralyzed by fear indecision or something else it doesnt matter. He isnt manning up and dealing with this. You seem to have made it about you versus the W. I appreciate how you might feel that way but everyone loses when you view it from that perspective.

 

It seems to be about whether he is unhappy enough in the current situation to leave his marriage and he isnt or he would have. If he were THAT miserable all the moral outrage from everyone in his life couldnt keep him there.

 

The fact that he might be happier with you, that if he met you both now he may have chosen you is irrelevant. Hes fence sitting and hes got you both dancing around him. I know you dont see it that way but he does. You are both sitting there saying pick me pick me.

 

Walk. If he doesnt come after you it wasnt meant to be. She doesnt win by default you just stop losing precious time. From what you describe nothing short of a natural disaster or a nuclear bomb is going to get him out of that house unless maybe maybe he knows that you arent sitting there waiting at the end of the driveway.

[Ellin]

Ellin, nothing is forced here. She can take what she wants and discard the rest, simple as that. To start a thread with limits on what advice she wants is never going to work around here and it does lead to my opinion....of thinking she only wants to hear what she wants to hear.

 

If an opinion is repeatedly given without being asked for, it's a bit of a forcing one's opinion on another - in my book, anyway. And it's not that she wants to hear waht she wants to hear. That normally means that she wants to hear only one anwser to her question, but in this case the answers are to a completely different question to the one she asked.

Heck no.....I don't know her and it's her life, her choices, but if you post on a public forum and put it out there, what else can you expect other than to get a lot of varied opinions. It's part of the deal.

Again, commenting on something else that the question that was "put out there" very specifically is different to what you're talking about. She doesn't mind any opinions as long as it is about the matter she "put out there".

 

It can still be done in a nice enough way, but often isn't. For example telling someone what to do or claiming to know what someone thinks, needs etc, in spite of what they say themselves, is disrespectful in my opinion, even rude sometimes. Apart from that it is not really helpful in my view and can have the opposite effect.

 

And still, I don't see anything wrong with wanting to hear about something quite specific.

 

I also wonder why this opinions which are so readily offered without being asked for are always so similar in content.

Also......you didn't have to reply to me to tell me how unwanted and unwelcome my 2 cents is, so.....tit for tat I suppose.

 

I didn't have to, but you came back to me first, so I only replied to you, which is again different. Not to mention that you had not stated repeatedly that this wasn't something you wanted to talk about - as the OP did..

[woinlove]

Returning to the specific question MOTF asks for input on - whether the MM can "really know which road to take" if he does not move out and live on his own before making a decision.

 

Well, obviously, some MM can make this decision without moving out, as evidenced by men who decide (1) to end the affair and recommit to the marriage without ever moving out or (2) to divorce and move out all in one step. I know at least one man in each of these 2 categories who are still happy with their decision a decade or more later and who, at the time (or a few months prior to moving out/filing for divorce) said they loved both women. In the latter case the MM had no children, which may be relevant. I expect it is less likely for a man to chose to leave a wife who wants him to stay, who he both loves and has dependent children with, and to be happy with this decision in the long term.

 

But MOTF would like to know if her MM is capable of making the right decision without moving out. It is difficult to provide input on this question without being able to converse with the MM. He thinks he can make the right decision and he should be the one to know. But MOTF knows him, loves him, and disagrees with him on this specific question. Perhaps if more information were provided, more useful input could be provided.

 

In particular, how old are his children, is he a very involved father and would moving out erode the home finances and affect his children? If he moved out, would the children live with his wife or would there be shared custody?

One reason he gives for not moving out is to not "disappoint his girls". If he thinks he can make a right decision without causing his children more unnecessary upheaval, that seems like a very good reason to take him at his word, doesn't it?

 

Also, MOTF, do you have some specific reason to think he is less capable than some other men at making this decision without moving out?

[Myowntwofeet]

Returning to the specific question MOTF asks for input on - whether the MM can "really know which road to take" if he does not move out and live on his own before making a decision.

 

Well, obviously, some MM can make this decision without moving out, as evidenced by men who decide (1) to end the affair and recommit to the marriage without ever moving out or (2) to divorce and move out all in one step. I know at least one man in each of these 2 categories who are still happy with their decision a decade or more later and who, at the time (or a few months prior to moving out/filing for divorce) said they loved both women. In the latter case the MM had no children, which may be relevant. I expect it is less likely for a man to chose to leave a wife who wants him to stay, who he both loves and has dependent children with, and to be happy with this decision in the long term.

 

But MOTF would like to know if her MM is capable of making the right decision without moving out. It is difficult to provide input on this question without being able to converse with the MM. He thinks he can make the right decision and he should be the one to know. But MOTF knows him, loves him, and disagrees with him on this specific question. Perhaps if more information were provided, more useful input could be provided.

 

In particular, how old are his children, is he a very involved father and would moving out erode the home finances and affect his children? If he moved out, would the children live with his wife or would there be shared custody?

One reason he gives for not moving out is to not "disappoint his girls". If he thinks he can make a right decision without causing his children more unnecessary upheaval, that seems like a very good reason to take him at his word, doesn't it?

 

Also, MOTF, do you have some specific reason to think he is less capable than some other men at making this decision without moving out?

 

With only 1 post - certainly a refreshing response!

 

Rather than assuming that I am nuts....ask some questions.

 

Obviously, because we are online it is difficult to give all the particulars but I can try to give you a little more.

 

I am not excusing his behaviour btw, I am however trying to give him the benifit of the doubt. He has worked very hard in counseling, and he does realize he has some serious issues that are still not resolved regarding his M and his W.

 

Politically correct or not, we have shared a great deal of the IC sessions.... and I am aware that he has serious, and I do mean serious Mother issues.... that also could be the result of his current marital situation. He is examine it, with a great deal of honesty and again, I really do appreciate that.

 

He also has serious issues ( right or wrong) with how he is percieved....ironcially not so much by me or his W ( he knows we love him) but severally effected by those he is not so confident of ( his parents are a big one). He has not told them of our affair. Her parents know - his do not, which speaks volumes concerning his fear of disappointing them.

 

His daughters are still in the house for another year, two max and they do know of the affair and it has been hell for him - can I understand how difficult it must be to know that his W is still willing, his children would be devestated and he has his own serious fears as well. Not easy, I don't care how "unhappy" you may or may not be.

 

I am not sitting here mopping and I am extremly busy, but I am supporting him and yes, I would love to see him strengthen.

 

Imo, if his marriage is reconciable, that won't change if they agree to a seperation. In fact, after all she has also been faced with, if anything it would be the only way to know he is really choosing her by choice.

 

Because of what has come to light in IC, because he is working on it and being honest about that work and because he is NOT making any promises to me or in anyway trying to manipulate me - I will stand by him as a friend - I will not stroke his ego, or play mind games with either him or myself... but I will support him while he gets through his core issues.

 

I am well aware that it is very possible once he starts to unravel his issues he will find he views both relationships ( M and Ours) very differently. He will either come to realize he unintentionally married his mother or he will come to realize that he loves his wife more than the for just " being the mother of his children and the past"

 

He honestly admits he is repressing the part of him that was present when he and I were together.

 

I know that if he does not walk through this openly and honestly ... he WILL revert back to his old ways or he will stand up and walk out.... either way, there is no guarantee that means us and I don't believe anywhere I have said anything different.

 

Thanks for the questions rather than assumptions and while it may not be enough to make people understand it is all the information I can give via an open forum.

[jwi71]

Allright.

 

First, I must apologize to MOTF for being snarky this morning. I should not have responded with the "pregnancy" bit. That was out of line and uncalled for. So, for whatever its worth, I apologize. It was wrong of me to say that.

 

However, my advice, taken in both a general/academic sense and as directed to you MOTF, stands. I know, you don't want to hear anything contrary to what you think/decided but that's part of the peril of public internet forums - sometimes hearing what you don't like.

 

Nor will I retract that you are trying to "win". You have admitted as much already. You cannot be a disinterested interested party. You clearly are not - you are still too raw in this A - in its dying days and its associated pain. For this too I am sorry.

 

You know the rules...take what you want and disregard the rest. I will clearly fall in the latter category. I will bow out and wish you well.

 

I hope you realize the end you want.

[fooled once]

I am not going to quote everyone.....sorry, only have a few minutes.

 

FO - " I clearly hit a nerve, you should examine that".

 

I don't have to - I can tell you why you hit it. You put words in my mouth and ASSUMED you know my thought process, nothing and I mean NOTHING irks me more in ANY situation. Nothing to examine

 

Can you show me where I put words in your mouth? I am honestly puzzled by this. Thanks!

 

His WIFE knows. End of discussion. I know this personally, not threw him.... and she knows she is welcome to contact me at anytime. She is not comfortable with it, and until she is - I will not approach her. I opened the door.

 

As for loving two women, how can I handle that?

 

Do you know how many WS actually love both - far more than anyone is willing to admit. I actually would have thought he was a calculating, manipulative man had he not loved the women of his children.

 

Well, my husband has kids from his first wife, and I know he doesn't love her And I have an ex husband and uhh.. now way do I love him But I understand what you are saying here and that is actually very decent that he is respecting her as the mother of his kids since he can't respect her as his wife (and I don't mean that as a snarky comment).

 

Love has several variables and is not black and white... in fact it is anything but. I have no problem knowing his loves her, none.

 

Love is pyscodelic (I know I spelt that wrong) - it is every color imaginable and then some. Love is an entirely unique color/feeling.

 

And ironically, I love my EX... to this day - and even more ironic MM was fine with that honesty when we were together..... again, that is me. I was with my EX for many years and are still in communication.... and I still love him...simply not in a romantic relationship way.

 

I respect that -- me, can't stand my ex and glad to be rid of the rotten abusive alcoholic crappy husband/father that he is.

 

I appreciate a great deal that was said... and while I may have gotten my panties in a knot regarding FO's comments... it was primarily because I have not rudely put down differing opinions, I have thanked those that respectively voiced thier own opinions.

 

I was respectful - I didn't call you names. I have a very different view. That's all.

 

The difference between those posters and FO's and also Jwi was the tone and the assumption that they were capable of knowing what I was thinking/feeling.

 

And you did the same thing with the MM's wife - assuming you know what she is feeling Tone isn't identifiable via the internet - you stated I was angry and that is far from it. You also implied I was a BS - again, incorrect. But I didn't hold that against you. JWL and I have alike posting habits -- but the message is the same message you were given by most others who responded. You just don't like how we posted it.

 

They do not, and it is not appropriate to suggest they do, regardless of what their intent is.

 

responses in bold. I think jwl and I both ( along with other LS members, don't sugar coat how we post. We are direct, sometime harsh and to the point. Believe it or not, I have made friends with many of the people here and even those who I debated with in the beginning.

 

I wish you much success in your future! Have a good evening.

[jennie-jennie]

He honestly admits he is repressing the part of him that was present when he and I were together.

 

See this I believe is the price the split self MM has to pay to stay in the marriage.

 

It can be fixed through counseling, but that does not seem to be the case here? It is actually recommended that the MM does not end his contact with the OW until he has access to his emotional self on his own.

[bentnotbroken]

See this I believe is the price the split self MM has to pay to stay in the marriage.

 

It can be fixed through counseling, but that does not seem to be the case here? It is actually recommended that the MM does not end his contact with the OW until he has access to his emotional self on his own.

 

 

He probably can access his emotoins when he finds that thing that allows one spine to be linear.

[woinlove]

If his daughters are near the age of leaving home, that is a tricky time. Unlike young children, it is difficult to make them spend time at MM's new home, if he were to move out and they resent this move. His relationship with them could be damaged for many years.

 

If he describes this situation as not wanting to "disappoint his girls", he may be downplaying or sugarcoating his real fears, which might include severely damaging a loving relationship with his daughters. Even honest people can have great difficulty acurately articulating something that they know the other person doesn't want to hear or which they have trouble admitting to themselves. Having a W and an OW and children, not to mention worrying about his mother (!), is a complex situation and MM may not be admitting the full extent to you and/or to himself of why he chooses not to move out.

 

Moving out is a decision, and a very important and difficult one, when one has been married for many years (as I assume is the case, given the age of his daughters), still loves one's spouse, and has children who are affected emotionally by the situation.

 

It seems you think MM has to move out to make an independent and right decision about which love/path to choose. MM responds that he doesn't need to move out to make the right decision. This seems like a stalemate. I would tend to decouple the question as to whether he needs to/wants to move out or not from the decision of choosing between two women. I would start with the questions: Does MM want to move out? Why? Let him provide the reasons behind his yes or no answer - whatever those reasons may be.

 

My guess is he does not want to move out, and that choosing between two women isn't even his number 1 concern right now, but that guess is just based on the limited information you have provided and my own experience with people in somewhat related situations. If I am right, you are unlikely to convince him to take a difficult and risky action (move out) for a reason which isn't of the highest priority for him.

[Myowntwofeet]

See this I believe is the price the split self MM has to pay to stay in the marriage.

 

It can be fixed through counseling, but that does not seem to be the case here? It is actually recommended that the MM does not end his contact with the OW until he has access to his emotional self on his own.

 

Hi Jennie

 

He is in counseling and to be honest, is doing a lot of hard work. I do think his IC may be treating this as a "split self"...although I am not certain... only the behaviour of the IC ( they initially went to him together, he seperated them and advised her to find a IC herself) and they have only began to unravel his childhood. He had never been in any kind of counseling prior to this and while I believe he is and has come a long way.... he has a great deal to deal with prior to addressing the current issues ( I.E. his marriage, the affair).

 

Hence my support. He isn't there yet, but he is in for a very difficult road in dealing with his issues and I have been there.... forget us for a moment, forget the "relationships"...this friend and yes, he is a very dear friend is openly walking through what many shy away from for years.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I do believe once he begins to face his relationship with his mother - he may have to deal with the fact that he actually married similar- hence the lack of emotional attachment.

 

If it is in fact a split self, counseling is a very long process... he has only been at it for just a year...and just now really starting to get to the nitty gritty so to speak.

 

Only time will tell.

[Myowntwofeet]

If his daughters are near the age of leaving home, that is a tricky time. Unlike young children, it is difficult to make them spend time at MM's new home, if he were to move out and they resent this move. His relationship with them could be damaged for many years.

 

If he describes this situation as not wanting to "disappoint his girls", he may be downplaying or sugarcoating his real fears, which might include severely damaging a loving relationship with his daughters. Even honest people can have great difficulty acurately articulating something that they know the other person doesn't want to hear or which they have trouble admitting to themselves. Having a W and an OW and children, not to mention worrying about his mother (!), is a complex situation and MM may not be admitting the full extent to you and/or to himself of why he chooses not to move out.

 

Moving out is a decision, and a very important and difficult one, when one has been married for many years (as I assume is the case, given the age of his daughters), still loves one's spouse, and has children who are affected emotionally by the situation.

 

It seems you think MM has to move out to make an independent and right decision about which love/path to choose. MM responds that he doesn't need to move out to make the right decision. This seems like a stalemate. I would tend to decouple the question as to whether he needs to/wants to move out or not from the decision of choosing between two women. I would start with the questions: Does MM want to move out? Why? Let him provide the reasons behind his yes or no answer - whatever those reasons may be.

 

My guess is he does not want to move out, and that choosing between two women isn't even his number 1 concern right now, but that guess is just based on the limited information you have provided and my own experience with people in somewhat related situations. If I am right, you are unlikely to convince him to take a difficult and risky action (move out) for a reason which isn't of the highest priority for him.

 

I really do agree with everything you said. The truth is as I stated earlier.... he is less concerned about "us" than he is about his daughters and mother.

 

And, right or wrong ... I do understand... I truly do.

 

It is not black or white and as much as everyone wants to throw the " if he loved you, he would yada yada" at me or even his wife ( I am certain she hears the same) it really IS NOT that simple....

 

His girls are the world to him (can't blame him) and the truth... she immediatly went to them and told them (2nd day after DDay)... whether I agree or not, is not my place.... but I do know he was crushed and I do mean crushed when his youngest lashed out at him and told him she ruined her life ( she was 16 at the time).

 

So, while everyone suggests no empathy, no understanding... I love him and I do get it more than he knows.

 

As long as he does the hard work ( stays in IC) and works on his issues, I will support him.... regardless of what people say.

 

Bottom line, we may never end up together..... I know that and I believe that when the time is right, he will either confidently walk away from me or the alternate, slowly start with the help of his IC to prepare to leave.... for himself, not for me.

 

IF that were to happen.... it would not be a walk in the park or as so many think here.... monkey sex and the "high life". It would be adults choosing to do things properly, with assistance and NOT repeating the mistakes of hiding and lying again.

 

I will never do that to his wife or any other women again.... but the reality is we do love each other, and for the here and now - I am not going to leave him without support that is important to him. I benifit from it as well... no question, and I am also growing in more ways than I could imagine.

 

I really appreciate the way you deliver your thoughts, and it is clear that you see a little of all the sides.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't understand why you feel he should move out of his house to make an "unbiased" decision when you are admitting to "supporting" him.

 

It looks like if his W took the same stance as you, you'd then demand that he not speak to her anymore.

 

If you feel he needs to be on his own, why are you talking to him?

[Myowntwofeet]

I don't understand why you feel he should move out of his house to make an "unbiased" decision when you are admitting to "supporting" him.

 

It looks like if his W took the same stance as you, you'd then demand that he not speak to her anymore.

 

If you feel he needs to be on his own, why are you talking to him?

 

I don't recall ever saying I "demanded" he not speak to her anymore:rolleyes:

 

More reading what you want to, and not what I at ANY time said.

 

I didn't tell him to move out either....for the love of god! My initial post was referring to my opinion that living in a house, while you may feel secluded is not the same as being on your own.

 

For god sakes... please stop making me out to be some monster that only want what she wants. I want what is best for him... I have made NO demands that he leave

 

My "demands"

 

1. That he remain actively in counseling ( once a week min)

 

2. That his wife is aware we are not NC

 

Capache?

[NoIDidn't]

I don't recall ever saying I "demanded" he not speak to her anymore:rolleyes:

 

More reading what you want to, and not what I at ANY time said.

 

I didn't tell him to move out either....for the love of god! My initial post was referring to my opinion that living in a house, while you may feel secluded is not the same as being on your own.

 

For god sakes... please stop making me out to be some monster that only want what she wants. I want what is best for him... I have made NO demands that he leave

 

My "demands"

 

1. That he remain actively in counseling ( once a week min)

 

2. That his wife is aware we are not NC

 

Capache?

 

How about you read what I wrote instead of reacting immediately to a post challenging your position?! I said it LOOKS LIKE you would DEMAND that.

 

Do YOU capache?

 

I never stated anything like what you reacted to. Read it again and respond without the snark.

[Myowntwofeet]

 

It is evident she wants him to leave his marriage.

 

It is also clear to at least me that the wife is NOT aware of what is going on.

 

You are dependent on him, He is dependent on the attention you give him. He loves his wife and he shares a life with her. He is going to counseling .... for some reason .... and his wife is in the dark that you are again engaging in an affair with her husband because when you did email her, he minimized you and your affair to her. He did his best to win her over and because of their history and the trust they had built up, she forgave him.

 

Why don't the 3 of you sit down and discuss this situation? That will be the eye opening conversation I think

 

ALOT of assumptions, and CLEAR means to me at least that you seem to think YOU KNOW more than you do, that is unless you have some crystal ball that you have over there.

 

You have no idea what I want... and saying it is "clear" when you don't personally know me or could possibly know all via cyber world is suggesting you can confidently share MY thoughts as if you know exactly what they are.

 

As I said earlier... I have no problem with differing opinions, but you know what FO... your's never changes....doesn't matter who/what/where.... you are consistent in your disdain for OW, and I personally think you have in fact been a BS ( btw, I am aware you say you were once unknowningly the OW) I have been on and off this board for a long time, and often say nothing as it is clear any opinion short of " dump him, he loves his wife only" is not really respected here.

 

Imo, of course.... you have been betrayed at one time and thought you would "do good" by being a constant on the infidelity/OW board, under the pretense of once an unknowning - however very confident, can do better OW.

 

Sorry... not buying what your selling.

[Myowntwofeet]

How about you read what I wrote instead of reacting immediately to a post challenging your position?! I said it LOOKS LIKE you would DEMAND that.

 

Do YOU capache?

 

I never stated anything like what you reacted to. Read it again and respond without the snark.

 

I missed the "you'd" ...my apologies... however I would not demand anything, in fact in many posts I have said whether you choose to believe it or not, I will support him through counseling...would I like to see him take a break... indeed I would... however I have NEVER told him to leave, nor have I said I think "he should" ... I simply said I don't see being alone in the family house the same as "being alone.

 

It seems rather simple, but it is amazing to me how many have read more into, believed they somehow know more about what I/Wife know and that I am really just a self serving ***

 

Not all, and not all that oppose irritate me, but when I hear the same ones time and time and time again literally saying the same thing... I have to wonder if they are actually trying to understand each individual situation or simply finding every opportunity to force their own beliefs.

 

My apologies NID...... truth.... I am just annoyed that very few can actually see any side but their own.

[NoIDidn't]

Deleted.....crossposted

[NoIDidn't]

I noticed that he gave you his IC's number to confirm conversations during sessions. I'm glad you've decided against that.

 

Seems like he wants to use the IC as a screener to decide which woman to choose.

 

I don't think he likes this limbo anymore than you or his W does. But he seems too scared to make a choice. And I don't think living alone will help him right now. He's already shell shocked. He'd likely end up having one or BOTH of you over on separate occasions to help him be "independent".

 

I really can't answer "what it takes" for him to decide to move out. I simply don't think he wants to move out. End of discussion, on his end.

 

True Story: A couple I knew was "separated" while living in the same house. A child involved. But they slept in different rooms. His insistence. I am friends with both. He moved out when he had the money. Not because of his GF or anything else. Once they stopped sharing a room/bed ALL the intimacy left their marriage. They weren't even like roommates. The story is longer than this, but included to lead to the next thought I have.

 

The only thing I can think of in your case is that he is still sharing a bed AND intimacy with her and he isn't in a place to give that up. What has he said about this? Do you know that they are still sharing a bed?

[Myowntwofeet]

I noticed that he gave you his IC's number to confirm conversations during sessions. I'm glad you've decided against that.

 

Seems like he wants to use the IC as a screener to decide which woman to choose.

 

I don't think he likes this limbo anymore than you or his W does. But he seems too scared to make a choice. And I don't think living alone will help him right now. He's already shell shocked. He'd likely end up having one or BOTH of you over on separate occasions to help him be "independent".

 

I really can't answer "what it takes" for him to decide to move out. I simply don't think he wants to move out. End of discussion, on his end.

 

True Story: A couple I knew was "separated" while living in the same house. A child involved. But they slept in different rooms. His insistence. I am friends with both. He moved out when he had the money. Not because of his GF or anything else. Once they stopped sharing a room/bed ALL the intimacy left their marriage. They weren't even like roommates. The story is longer than this, but included to lead to the next thought I have.

 

The only thing I can think of in your case is that he is still sharing a bed AND intimacy with her and he isn't in a place to give that up. What has he said about this? Do you know that they are still sharing a bed?

 

I am not sure he knows what ( if anything) it will take for him to move out, and honestly - I have no rose colored glasses on.

 

The only thing I can do is make a decision that I can live with. He is genuine and truly messed up. He is a good father, regardless of his digressions and this has killed him in many ways.

 

I do agree with you regarding his IC.... I don't see the value other than muddling the waters or perhaps as you say.... then asking for his IC's "opinion"... sadly, I can see that conversation.

 

As for sharing the bed.... honestly, I haven't asked. Truth, he is trying to work it out and I am aware of that..... he is trying to find a way to not 'suppress' himself and remain in the house.....

 

It is not black and white.... and it is tough, trust me I would never recommend an affair... the fall out for all is unbelievable really.

 

This isn't going to be resolved today or tomorrow......all I can say is I am living, dating and focusing on my own IC while maintaining communication with him.