Not looking to debate my questions... but rather responses to a specific question

[2sunny]

I think it it is really hard for the BSs to understand that many OW actually think the lying and cheating is wrong. It seems they think we commend these actions

 

i wouldn't make such an assumption about any OW's feelings in this regard. to go by actions says it all.

 

JJ - your actions and your words show clearly that you support your MM's position... of not only being married and seeing him as his OW, but being proud of it and overlooking his lying and cheating. you defend your MM at every turn. why? he's a cheat. plain and simple.

 

you may think it's wrong - but your actions show you are a willing participant while knowing the full story. this in itself is a huge contradiction.

 

 

mostly, it's hard for the BS because she isn't privy to all the details. if she were she would have a choice in the matter too. this is why often it's completely unfair unless the BS knows all the details - then the BS can make a decision based on the reality of the M instead of what the cheater has been pretending about all along.

[GreenEyedLady]

JJ - your actions and your words show clearly that you support your MM's position... of not only being married and seeing him as his OW, but being proud of it and overlooking his lying and cheating. you defend your MM at every turn. why? he's a cheat. plain and simple.

 

you may think it's wrong - but your actions show you are a willing participant while knowing the full story. this in itself is a huge contradiction.

 

Why do most people defend the person they love?

 

Because they love them, end of story.

 

How is it a contradiction?

 

Do you not love your children unconditionally while not always loving their actions?

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

Do you not love your children unconditionally while not always loving their actions?

 

But if my child did something like lie and cheat, I wouldn't turn a blind eye to it either. It wouldn't be okay with me if my child lie to everyone else, but me. It seems to be the case for OPs in As, though.

 

I guess, different strokes for different folks.

[2sunny]

Why do most people defend the person they love?

 

Because they love them, end of story.

 

How is it a contradiction?

 

Do you not love your children unconditionally while not always loving their actions?

 

GEL

 

my kids know i love them dearly. at the same time they understand perfectly that i also don't reward bad behavior. if they create trouble - they can take the consequences for their actions, i'm not fixing it for them. they need to learn the lesson from the error. that is how people build character.

 

 

these are TWO separate issues GEL and you know it.

 

by continuing to see a MM - the OW is encouraging, rewarding AND being a willing participant in his bad behavior. there is no two ways about that.

[2sunny]

Why do most people defend the person they love?

Because they love them, end of story.

 

How is it a contradiction?

 

Do you not love your children unconditionally while not always loving their actions?

 

GEL

 

love isn't defined by overlooking bad behavior. it deem that as stupidity.

 

there is never a reason to DEFEND my truth. you are getting things confused. while i may love someone - i will not defend bad behavior. that shows such a lack of values and principles and character.

[GreenEyedLady]

my kids know i love them dearly. at the same time they understand perfectly that i also don't reward bad behavior. if they create trouble - they can take the consequences for their actions, i'm not fixing it for them. they need to learn the lesson from the error. that is how people build character.

 

 

these are TWO separate issues GEL and you know it.

 

by continuing to see a MM - the OW is encouraging, rewarding AND being a willing participant in his bad behavior. there is no two ways about that.

 

No, I don't think so.

 

Love is love. I love my children and I call them on their behavior. But I would never stop loving because of it.

 

I guess I don't get why you don't get why the OW stays and is not going to be deterred.

 

There is no argument that will undermine the love a woman has for her man.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

love isn't defined by overlooking bad behavior. it deem that as stupidity.

 

there is never a reason to DEFEND my truth. you are getting things confused. while i may love someone - i will not defend bad behavior. that shows such a lack of values and principles and character.

 

Who said anything about defending bad behavior?

 

Defending a person does not equal defending bad behavior.

 

GEL

[2sunny]

No, I don't think so.

 

Love is love. I love my children and I call them on their behavior. But I would never stop loving because of it.

 

I guess I don't get why you don't get why the OW stays and is not going to be deterred.

 

There is no argument that will undermine the love a woman has for her man.

 

GEL

 

this is one of the silliest statements i've ever read here. be realistic. open your green eyes GEL.

 

someday when your husband is knocked off his pedestal - you may look at this realistically. people are fallible. love is a separate issue.

 

a cheating spouse coupled with hurt ad harm caused by her/him to an OW and a BS isn't as easy to overlook as you seem to think. love doesn't ALWAYS conquer all.

 

 

let's say your now H cheats at the 25 year mark with a young hottie - are you going to say it's no big deal because you love him?

[2sunny]

Who said anything about defending bad behavior?

 

Defending a person does not equal defending bad behavior.

 

GEL

 

how can you defend the behavior when that is what essentially defines the person's character?

 

to defend bad behavior is the same as rewarding it. you can't have it both ways... one contradicts the other. the person's actions defines their character.

[GreenEyedLady]

this is one of the silliest statements i've ever read here. be realistic. open your green eyes GEL.

 

someday when your husband is knocked off his pedestal - you may look at this realistically. people are fallible. love is a separate issue.

 

a cheating spouse coupled with hurt ad harm caused by her/him to an OW and a BS isn't as easy to overlook as you seem to think. love doesn't ALWAYS conquer all.

 

 

let's say your now H cheats at the 25 year mark with a young hottie - are you going to say it's no big deal because you love him?

 

How long have I been here and you've been reading my posts?

 

I'd throw his s*** on the lawn and find my own hottie.

 

I know they're fallible. I've posted myself that a ton of times. But to think that somehow you telling that to OW or anyone for that matter is going to change their course is foolish.

 

I myself was betrayed when I was a very young wife. I have never felt the same as the betrayed here so I don't identify. I got over it, I'm glad I'm without the man (even embarrassed I ever married him) and am not scarred because of it. That's why I don't get the dwelling of the BS. Although, maybe it's because I am the one who left that it is easier on me, I don't know.

 

On another note, I sometimes wonder if the difference is that the betrayed feel they didn't get a choice and that's what they are really pissed about, even if they decided to reconcile.

 

GEL

[2sunny]

How long have I been here and you've been reading my posts?

 

I'd throw his s*** on the lawn and find my own hottie.

 

I know they're fallible. I've posted myself that a ton of times. But to think that somehow you telling that to OW or anyone for that matter is going to change their course is foolish.

 

I myself was betrayed when I was a very young wife. I have never felt the same as the betrayed here so I don't identify. I got over it, I'm glad I'm without the man (even embarrassed I ever married him) and am not scarred because of it. That's why I don't get the dwelling of the BS. Although, maybe it's because I am the one who left that it is easier on me, I don't know.

 

On another note, I sometimes wonder if the difference is that the betrayed feel they didn't get a choice and that's what they are really pissed about, even if they decided to reconcile.

GEL

 

most likely that they didn't get a choice. they also lost hope in the souse they thought they had married instead of what the reality of what they ACTUALLY married (the whole thought of "he's not the man i thought he was") and the sheer fact that to be betrayed normally takes so many lies from the betrayer. a lot of it seems to be wrapped around the lies, which of course, makes a person feel terribly betrayed... by the person who you THOUGHT was supposed to love you the most in the whole world.

 

the delusion of it all is painful. not having a choice all along adds fuel to the fire.

[whichwayisup]

I myself was betrayed when I was a very young wife. I have never felt the same as the betrayed here so I don't identify. I got over it, I'm glad I'm without the man (even embarrassed I ever married him) and am not scarred because of it. That's why I don't get the dwelling of the BS. Although, maybe it's because I am the one who left that it is easier on me, I don't know.

 

This is why you don't feel the same as the betrayed here. It seems you never really were inlove with your first H. To say you were embarressed that you married him, just shows it too.

 

If your current husband cheated on you, you came home and found him in bed with another woman, are you saying you'd be Ok and not feel betrayed by him? That it would scar you or hurt you deeply?

[Mimolicious]

This is why you don't feel the same as the betrayed here. It seems you never really were inlove with your first H. To say you were embarressed that you married him, just shows it too.

 

If your current husband cheated on you, you came home and found him in bed with another woman, are you saying you'd be Ok and not feel betrayed by him? That it would scar you or hurt you deeply?

 

 

That, plus the fact that she was the one who left the R. Probably feels as it never existed. Don't we all have that person that we leave in the dust and not hurt about it? Even if it was your 8 grade little BF. Just saying...

[NoIDidn't]

This is why you don't feel the same as the betrayed here. It seems you never really were inlove with your first H. To say you were embarressed that you married him, just shows it too.

 

If your current husband cheated on you, you came home and found him in bed with another woman, are you saying you'd be Ok and not feel betrayed by him? That it would scar you or hurt you deeply?

 

I wouldn't say that there was no love for the first H just because the poster said she was embarrassed that she married him.

 

If I remember correctly, it was a very different circumstance from what is often reported in this forum. It was a HUGE betrayal, though. So there is no diminishing that factor, at all.

 

In fairness to both GEL and the betrayeds (former and present) that post here, their situations are quite a bit different.

 

GEL will have to be the one telling that story though.

[jennie-jennie]

How long have I been here and you've been reading my posts?

 

I'd throw his s*** on the lawn and find my own hottie.

 

I know they're fallible. I've posted myself that a ton of times. But to think that somehow you telling that to OW or anyone for that matter is going to change their course is foolish.

 

I myself was betrayed when I was a very young wife. I have never felt the same as the betrayed here so I don't identify. I got over it, I'm glad I'm without the man (even embarrassed I ever married him) and am not scarred because of it. That's why I don't get the dwelling of the BS. Although, maybe it's because I am the one who left that it is easier on me, I don't know.

 

On another note, I sometimes wonder if the difference is that the betrayed feel they didn't get a choice and that's what they are really pissed about, even if they decided to reconcile.

 

GEL

 

I loved my two SOs very much, and they both betrayed me deeply. I stayed with both of them for many years. I still in many ways can not identify with many of the BSs on LS. I too don't get the dwelling.

[jennie-jennie]

How else does one know that a partner is lying to someone else and doesn't care about it because it isn't happening to them? Seems to me that the OW/OP commends the actions when they get them what they want.

 

Shame some people still think its only BSs that feel this way. Many former OPs feel this way having had their eyes open, and people that have NEVER even be in affairs feel the same.

 

I would never do what my WS is doing, but I can't make him do things my way. I am in a relationship with him, and it is not up to me how he conducts another relationship he is having. I do not commend the way he is handling that relationship. I have for years asked him to do it differently. But it doesn't make me stop loving him or wanting to discontinue our relationship.

 

Sorry for forgetting to mention the reformed OWs and all other people out there.

 

My SO's had other issues. It didn't make me stop loving them either. Just because you don't agree with one side of how your loved ones conducts their lives, doesn't mean you stop loving them.

[jennie-jennie]

i wouldn't make such an assumption about any OW's feelings in this regard. to go by actions says it all.

 

JJ - your actions and your words show clearly that you support your MM's position... of not only being married and seeing him as his OW, but being proud of it and overlooking his lying and cheating. you defend your MM at every turn. why? he's a cheat. plain and simple.

 

you may think it's wrong - but your actions show you are a willing participant while knowing the full story. this in itself is a huge contradiction.

 

I am not proud of my MM being married, nor of me being the OW. I am unapologetic but not proud. It is not a position I want to be in.

 

I am not overlooking my MM's lying and cheating, but I am understanding that there are reasons why he is handling his life this way. These reasons go deep within him. In spite of what he is doing he is a good person who can not find a better way of handling his life.

 

I defend my MM, but that doesn't mean that I like his actions.

[jennie-jennie]

my kids know i love them dearly. at the same time they understand perfectly that i also don't reward bad behavior. if they create trouble - they can take the consequences for their actions, i'm not fixing it for them. they need to learn the lesson from the error. that is how people build character.

 

 

these are TWO separate issues GEL and you know it.

 

by continuing to see a MM - the OW is encouraging, rewarding AND being a willing participant in his bad behavior. there is no two ways about that.

 

I am not rewarding my MM's behavior. He is not a child, it is not for me to teach him how to behave, to reward or punish him. You sound like I give him sex as a reward for having cheated and lied. I have sex with him because he is my sexual partner, because he is my SO, because we are in a relationship.

 

A relationship between two adults is not about rewards and punishments, that is ridiculous.

[jennie-jennie]

how can you defend the behavior when that is what essentially defines the person's character?

 

to defend bad behavior is the same as rewarding it. you can't have it both ways... one contradicts the other. the person's actions defines their character.

 

Understanding why a person acts in a way you don't commend is not the same as defending bad behavior. It is being empathetic with someone you love although you would not have done the same.

[jennie-jennie]

Who said anything about defending bad behavior?

 

Defending a person does not equal defending bad behavior.

 

GEL

 

Exactly.

.

[jennie-jennie]

how can you defend the behavior when that is what essentially defines the person's character?

 

to defend bad behavior is the same as rewarding it. you can't have it both ways... one contradicts the other. the person's actions defines their character.

 

If having an affair is totally uncharacteristic for that person, then you need to look deeper for reasons why they are acting in an uncharacteristic way.

 

It might in fact be because the lying and cheating is so uncharacteristic for them, that they can get away with it for so long.

Edited July 24, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

I am not proud of my MM being married, nor of me being the OW. I am unapologetic but not proud. It is not a position I want to be in.

 

I am not proud of being the OW, but neither am I ashamed of it. I know that my MM loves me and that I love him, and that is what matters to me. We have a relationship, and I am proud of that relationship. I am his SO, and he is my SO. I hope that some day he will have dealt with his marriage, so we can have a relationship without it having the stigma of being an extramarital relationship.