Not looking to debate my questions... but rather responses to a specific question

[NoIDidn't]

Glad you are moving on even in the midst of all this. But I can't imagine why you are dating with all this emotional upset going on. That just seems so unfair to a poor guy that might be looking for something more permanent with you.

 

Honestly, it seems like you have your answer though. He isn't moving out because he's working on his marriage (seems to be a default position though) while thinking he can maintain a *tainted friendship with you. Tainted in that I don't believe former lovers, especially those with this level of intensity, could ever just be friends.

 

It is possible that he could wake up tomorrow and decide he wants his own place, though. Not likely given what he's already said, but definitely possible. Its also possible that his W is giving him enough rope to hang himself. She's in the better position from a legal standpoint, and I'm sure that's not lost on him.

 

Who knows? I just know its better to focus on your life than even helping him with his. And I know a thing or two about using other's dilemma's to distract me from dealing with my own.

[Myowntwofeet]

OTE=NoIDidn't;2897567]Glad you are moving on even in the midst of all

 

this. But I can't imagine why you are dating with all this emotional upset going on. That just seems so unfair to a poor guy that might be looking for something more permanent with you.

 

Honestly, it seems like you have your answer though. He isn't moving out because he's working on his marriage (seems to be a default position though) while thinking he can maintain a *tainted friendship with you. Tainted in that I don't believe former lovers, especially those with this level of intensity, could ever just be friends.

 

It is possible that he could wake up tomorrow and decide he wants his own place, though. Not likely given what he's already said, but definitely possible. Its also possible that his W is giving him enough rope to hang himself. She's in the better position from a legal standpoint, and I'm sure that's not lost on him.

 

Who knows? I just know its better to focus on your life than even helping him with his. And I know a thing or two about using other's dilemma's to distract me from dealing with my own.

 

 

I think you could be right on just about all your points.... truth, only time will tell...anything is possible at this point.

 

And I have said the same thing regarding his W. It is possible that she is wanting him to decide on his own to go NC, that hasn't happened and I am uncertain how long she will find that acceptable ( I can't blame her).

 

As far as dating... I am in no way/shape or form prepared to date anyone long term. This Affair brought up many old wounds and I am very clear that going out is really for the social aspect, to meet new people and enjoy people... NOT to get involved.

 

That isn't about hanging on to MM... that is about me, needing to enjoy myself a little, not over analyze everything in my life ( I already do that with my journalling and my IC) and simply open up the door rather than sitting here mulling what could/may/may not happen.

 

It's funny, because I actually believe the fact that he knows we both love him, and that we both know he loves us does put us down on the priority list... he is secure in knowing that.... he is not secure in knowing his daughters love him or his mother who he believes never thought he was good enough.

 

His concern is with those that he feels don't view him as he needs them to... until he can wrestle with those very important demons, and come to realize that they do love him ( and actually believe it) for him.... I am afraid he may always sit in this turmoil.

 

And I hear you loud and clear about focusing on others to avoid dealing.....lol, I think everyone is capable and I am no different. I love him, I genuinely see the anguish and pain we have caused ( to his W) as well and the sheer fear in him of hurting his family and please know that my IC forces me to focus on me, my own issues and my own wants/needs...even if I try to avoid it

[jennie-jennie]

Hi Jennie

 

He is in counseling and to be honest, is doing a lot of hard work. I do think his IC may be treating this as a "split self"...although I am not certain... only the behaviour of the IC ( they initially went to him together, he seperated them and advised her to find a IC herself) and they have only began to unravel his childhood. He had never been in any kind of counseling prior to this and while I believe he is and has come a long way.... he has a great deal to deal with prior to addressing the current issues ( I.E. his marriage, the affair).

 

Hence my support. He isn't there yet, but he is in for a very difficult road in dealing with his issues and I have been there.... forget us for a moment, forget the "relationships"...this friend and yes, he is a very dear friend is openly walking through what many shy away from for years.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I do believe once he begins to face his relationship with his mother - he may have to deal with the fact that he actually married similar- hence the lack of emotional attachment.

 

If it is in fact a split self, counseling is a very long process... he has only been at it for just a year...and just now really starting to get to the nitty gritty so to speak.

 

Only time will tell.

 

It sounds to me like he is on the right path. It was a correct move of the counselor to recommend IC instead of MC. That is what a split self couple needs. It is so good that your MM has started this process.

 

What I meant with my comment was that your MM (for lack of knowing what else to call him) says that he is repressing the part of himself that was present when he and you were together, and I was kind of wondering why when he is in counseling and has access to you. But maybe it just takes time in counseling for him to have proper access to this part of himself. Maybe he is just not there yet.

 

I believe with men like these the patterns run really deep. That is why it so often happens that they throw the OW under the bus and beg the wife to stay on Dday. They are not ready for change. These are old survival patterns that have brought them this far in life. They are hanging on to them for lack of knowing how else to survive.

 

For us as OW to have to just have to stand to the side and watch is very difficult. Whether the MM is back in the marriage repressing his emotional side, or like yours in the slow process of counseling. We have our own issues of course, but for us what the MM are working with would be so simple.

 

On the original question, I think it is entirely up to the MM. If he feels the need to live on his own, he should do so. If he doesn't, he can continue working on his issues in IC while living in the marital home until the day he hopefully is ready to make a decision about how he wants his life in the future.

 

I am glad you two are back in contact. I think that is best for you both. And I am glad everything is out in the open now, so the wife knows. It is so much better to know that nothing is kept secret.

[jennie-jennie]

So, while everyone suggests no empathy, no understanding... I love him and I do get it more than he knows.

 

As long as he does the hard work ( stays in IC) and works on his issues, I will support him.... regardless of what people say.

 

This is what we do with people we love: we love and support them. You are stating it so clearly. To me you are doing just what you should be doing, just what any woman who loves a man should be doing. Love and support him where he is at.

[jennie-jennie]

ALOT of assumptions, and CLEAR means to me at least that you seem to think YOU KNOW more than you do, that is unless you have some crystal ball that you have over there.

 

You have no idea what I want... and saying it is "clear" when you don't personally know me or could possibly know all via cyber world is suggesting you can confidently share MY thoughts as if you know exactly what they are.

 

As I said earlier... I have no problem with differing opinions, but you know what FO... your's never changes....doesn't matter who/what/where.... you are consistent in your disdain for OW, and I personally think you have in fact been a BS ( btw, I am aware you say you were once unknowningly the OW) I have been on and off this board for a long time, and often say nothing as it is clear any opinion short of " dump him, he loves his wife only" is not really respected here.

 

Imo, of course.... you have been betrayed at one time and thought you would "do good" by being a constant on the infidelity/OW board, under the pretense of once an unknowning - however very confident, can do better OW.

 

Sorry... not buying what your selling.

 

Hmm, interesting thoughts. Or could it be that she just like I did the other day felt like she was the BS although she was the OW? Her MM had moved out for an entire year so for that time she might have been his primary woman. Just throwing thoughts out there. You know, fooled once that she was his primary partner. That hurts.

[jennie-jennie]

I am not sure he knows what ( if anything) it will take for him to move out, and honestly - I have no rose colored glasses on.

 

The only thing I can do is make a decision that I can live with. He is genuine and truly messed up. He is a good father, regardless of his digressions and this has killed him in many ways.

 

I do agree with you regarding his IC.... I don't see the value other than muddling the waters or perhaps as you say.... then asking for his IC's "opinion"... sadly, I can see that conversation.

 

As for sharing the bed.... honestly, I haven't asked. Truth, he is trying to work it out and I am aware of that..... he is trying to find a way to not 'suppress' himself and remain in the house.....

It is not black and white.... and it is tough, trust me I would never recommend an affair... the fall out for all is unbelievable really.

 

This isn't going to be resolved today or tomorrow......all I can say is I am living, dating and focusing on my own IC while maintaining communication with him.

 

So he is trying to see if he can have with her what he has with you. Interesting. My MM has expressed such a desire at times as well. I believe last weekend's sex put a halt to such thoughts. Isn't it difficult for you though that he is "working on his marriage"? I am so sick and tired of hearing words like that, when my MM's heart is still full of me. At least my MM can not do it.

 

They do say however that if both spouses work in IC and reconnect with their emotional selves, and the WS decides to stay with the spouse, then it is possible to remain in the marriage and not suppress this part of themselves and have a pretty good marriage.

Edited July 21, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[fooled once]

ALOT of assumptions, and CLEAR means to me at least that you seem to think YOU KNOW more than you do, that is unless you have some crystal ball that you have over there.

 

You have no idea what I want... and saying it is "clear" when you don't personally know me or could possibly know all via cyber world is suggesting you can confidently share MY thoughts as if you know exactly what they are.

 

As I said earlier... I have no problem with differing opinions, but you know what FO... your's never changes....doesn't matter who/what/where.... you are consistent in your disdain for OW, and I personally think you have in fact been a BS ( btw, I am aware you say you were once unknowningly the OW) I have been on and off this board for a long time, and often say nothing as it is clear any opinion short of " dump him, he loves his wife only" is not really respected here.

 

Imo, of course.... you have been betrayed at one time and thought you would "do good" by being a constant on the infidelity/OW board, under the pretense of once an unknowning - however very confident, can do better OW.

 

Sorry... not buying what your selling.

 

My last post to you because clearly, you see a posters name and immediatley your defenses get up.

 

I said it is CLEAR TO ME - not to you, not to anyone else but ME.

 

And I stand by MY opinions and thoughts.

 

I have been married twice -- first time, no affair by my ex - even though I would have LOVED it if he had gotten a girlfriend. Second marriage - my current marriage - no affair. So you are wrong about your ASSumptions I am a BS or was a BS. I just depsise behavior that is based in lies, hurt and betrayal. I have zippo respect for that behavior no matter how someone likes to dress it up Bet it would make you feel better if I had been betrayed, that way you could take my advise and put it in the "bitter BS" category. Sorry, won't work. Not buying what you are selling LOL

 

Like jwl said, take what you need and leave the rest.

 

I have never, ever said a cheating pig MM should stay with his wife. My advice is always TELL THE WIFE so she can make her OWN decisions about HER life. I know, I know ... the wife knows. Gotcha. I know, I know, the MM is so conflicted. Gotcha

 

Don't get why people post on an open forum and then get all pissy when they don't get the advice they want. Again, I never said the MM should stay with the wife - hell, she deserves MUCH better. He should sh*t and get off the pot and quit playing these games. I also stand by I doubt the wife is as aware as you want to believe she is and I commend his daughters for telling him what they think of his cheating. Definitely would have been better for him to separate from his wife before dipping his wick, but then again many MM's haven't been known for their brains and thoughtfulness.

 

Good luck to ya!

Edited July 21, 2010 by fooled once

[jennie-jennie]

My last post to you because clearly, you see a posters name and immediatley your defenses get up.

 

I said it is CLEAR TO ME - not to you, not to anyone else but ME.

 

And I stand by MY opinions and thoughts.

 

I have been married twice -- first time, no affair by my ex - even though I would have LOVED it if he had gotten a girlfriend. Second marriage - my current marriage - no affair. So you are wrong about your ASSumptions I am a BS or was a BS. I just depsise behavior that is based in lies, hurt and betrayal. I have zippo respect for that behavior no matter how someone likes to dress it up Bet it would make you feel better if I had been betrayed, that way you could take my advise and put it in the "bitter BS" category. Sorry, won't work. Not buying what you are selling LOL

 

Like jwl said, take what you need and leave the rest.

 

I have never, ever said a cheating pig MM should stay with his wife. My advice is always TELL THE WIFE so she can make her OWN decisions about HER life. I know, I know ... the wife knows. Gotcha. I know, I know, the MM is so conflicted. Gotcha

 

Don't get why people post on an open forum and then get all pissy when they don't get the advice they want. Again, I never said the MM should stay with the wife - hell, she deserves MUCH better. He should sh*t and get off the pot and quit playing these games. I also stand by I doubt the wife is as aware as you want to believe she is and I commend his daughters for telling him what they think of his cheating. Definitely would have been better for him to separate from his wife before dipping his wick, but then again many MM's haven't been known for their brains and thoughtfulness.

 

Good luck to ya!

 

Children should keep out of their parents' love lives. It is not their business.

[Owl]

Children should keep out of their parents' love lives. It is not their business.

 

It impacts their lives...it changes their future...many times it completely reorganizes their family life....and they nearly always pattern their own relationships after how their parents manage relationships. It most assuredly IS their business.

[jennie-jennie]

It impacts their lives...it changes their future...many times it completely reorganizes their family life....and they nearly always pattern their own relationships after how their parents manage relationships. It most assuredly IS their business.

 

Having been a child who was involved in my parents' relationship as the third wheel having a say, I know how unhealthy this is for children. Yes, the parents' love life/lives impacts the children, but they have no say. It is up to the parents to take the children into consideration, not to the children to demand consideration.

[Owl]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

If a parent is involved in an affair...children old enough to understand what's going on are absolutely going to voice how they feel on the subject.

 

They're going to be hurt...not rocket science.

 

Trying to suppress that is far worse than letting them express how they feel.

 

And I would agree...a parent SHOULD take the children into consideration...but the reality is that this is almost never truly the case when an affair happens. The parent is so blinded by their own feelings they tend not to take ANYONE but themselves into consideration. We've seen that repeatedly here...they're just not thinking rationally. If the parent were CAPABLE of taking the children into consideration...then they'd probably be a lot more likely to "do it the right way", and end the marriage before they engage in relations with someone else.

 

In my situation, my wife was all set to go live with OM. The kids could tell that she was clearly completely off her rocker at the time and not at all thinking straight...but she couldn't. (our kids were all older teens at the time). Part of her wake up call was when they called her out on that.

[jthorne]

MOTF:

 

You say that you are happy with the ways things are.

 

I don't understand how you can be happy that he loves another woman.

 

If your question is how does he become independent, I would have to ask what does independent mean to you?

 

One can be independent and still be in a R and even married. Why should someone have to live alone to be independent? Also, he has to want to be less dependent on his W.

 

But really, I don't think independence is the issue.This man you are in love with is not leaving. Men do not leave their W's when they love them. That just doesn't make sense. The only thing that there is a possibility of is him growing more attached to you and falling out of love with his W. But as long as he claims to love her, he's staying where he is. Out of love. (Although, his W could leave him. I can't see anyone putting up with this.)

 

Instead you need to focus on you and what you want to happen. If you want to stay in the R, you'll have to find acceptance of the way things are and have realistic expectations of the future. I'm not saying settle in the least but realize there are limitations. And if you're seeing him only one time a week for a short while, that's tough, on you.

 

Also, don't talk exclusively about the R and whether he's leaving etc. If you're in a R, you have to cultivate it. Don't focus on his life at home while you're together. He has a counselor and you have a counselor.

 

I hope this helps a little.

 

GEL

GEL and I sometimes do not agree on things, but I certainly agree with this, and I think it bears repeating. I think it is interesting that it was basically skipped over. The most important part bolded and underlined.

 

I know people would like to believe a "split self" keeps a person from making a decision. But he loves his wife. He LOVES his wife. Leaving her just doesn't make sense. He may drive her crazy till she throws him out, but he will not leave someone he loves of his own accord.

 

He is not capable of making this decision independently.

Some people never really make independent decisions about their lives , they simply wait to be manipulated into having one made for them. Its the way they are.

 

Ultimately, whoever leaves him first - his wife or yourself - is simply giving him to the other woman. "Here, take him".

 

He doesnt want to be the bad guy in anyone eyes. Its a stunted and selfish way to try to live when you think about it. Doesnt mean he is a monster , doesnt mean he cant have an exclusive relationship, but...

 

But someone will have to do it for him. He will go back and forth back and forth until someone shuts one door, locks it, and tosses the key. You both love him and he loves you both -so maybe you can go from there.

 

I bet his wife will get tired of this and divorce him. I also would not be surprised if during the process of divorce you lose your patience as well. Kind of sadly, he will end up on his own in one of those short term lease studio apartments with furniture included wondering how he got there. Happens all the time.

Again, another important post that was skipped over. MOTF- Are you so desperately in love with this guy that you will accept him by default? Are you willing to take him not because he came to you on his own, but because someone else didn't want him?

[bentnotbroken]

I really do agree with everything you said. The truth is as I stated earlier.... he is less concerned about "us" than he is about his daughters and mother.

 

And, right or wrong ... I do understand... I truly do.

 

It is not black or white and as much as everyone wants to throw the " if he loved you, he would yada yada" at me or even his wife ( I am certain she hears the same) it really IS NOT that simple....

 

His girls are the world to him (can't blame him) and the truth... she immediatly went to them and told them (2nd day after DDay)... whether I agree or not, is not my place.... but I do know he was crushed and I do mean crushed when his youngest lashed out at him and told him she ruined her life ( she was 16 at the time).

 

So, while everyone suggests no empathy, no understanding... I love him and I do get it more than he knows.

 

As long as he does the hard work ( stays in IC) and works on his issues, I will support him.... regardless of what people say.

 

Bottom line, we may never end up together..... I know that and I believe that when the time is right, he will either confidently walk away from me or the alternate, slowly start with the help of his IC to prepare to leave.... for himself, not for me.

 

IF that were to happen.... it would not be a walk in the park or as so many think here.... monkey sex and the "high life". It would be adults choosing to do things properly, with assistance and NOT repeating the mistakes of hiding and lying again.

 

I will never do that to his wife or any other women again.... but the reality is we do love each other, and for the here and now - I am not going to leave him without support that is important to him. I benifit from it as well... no question, and I am also growing in more ways than I could imagine.

 

I really appreciate the way you deliver your thoughts, and it is clear that you see a little of all the sides.

 

 

Good for both the wife and daughter. They get to express their feelings and he gets to listen. Whether he grows the fortitude needed to find manhood, at least he is more than a little aware of the crap he dragged into their lives.

[jennie-jennie]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

If a parent is involved in an affair...children old enough to understand what's going on are absolutely going to voice how they feel on the subject.

 

They're going to be hurt...not rocket science.

Trying to suppress that is far worse than letting them express how they feel.

And I would agree...a parent SHOULD take the children into consideration...but the reality is that this is almost never truly the case when an affair happens. The parent is so blinded by their own feelings they tend not to take ANYONE but themselves into consideration. We've seen that repeatedly here...they're just not thinking rationally. If the parent were CAPABLE of taking the children into consideration...then they'd probably be a lot more likely to "do it the right way", and end the marriage before they engage in relations with someone else.

 

In my situation, my wife was all set to go live with OM. The kids could tell that she was clearly completely off her rocker at the time and not at all thinking straight...but she couldn't. (our kids were all older teens at the time). Part of her wake up call was when they called her out on that.

 

Oh, I am not suppressing my kids when it comes to talking about my extramarital relationship. They are free to bring it up and discuss it with me. And they do, all aspects of it. (They are teenagers and young adults.) But they know the say is mine, they do not expect to have any say or impact on my love life. They trust that I keep their best interest in forefront and combine that with my best interest. As I have said before, to me these two do not collide. I have a relationship with the man I love, and from there I make sure my children have a good life.

 

As an example I am not prepared to move closer to my MM until at the earliest in two years, because that would severely affect my middle child's education and her own relationship with her boyfriend.

[califnan]

Yes, the parents' love life/lives impacts the children, but they have no say. It is up to the parents to take the children into consideration, not to the children to demand consideration.

 

-------------------

 

Parents most definitely should attempt to live their lives as an example to their offspring..

[pureinheart]

Children should keep out of their parents' love lives. It is not their business.

 

I wholeheartedly agree Jennie as it can be quite damaging to all parties. Kids just need to be kids period.

[jennie-jennie]

I wholeheartedly agree Jennie as it can be quite damaging to all parties. Kids just need to be kids period.

 

Exactly.

.

[jennie-jennie]

-------------------

 

Parents most definitely should attempt to live their lives as an example to their offspring..

 

Of course. So my children see me caring for my own happiness, they see me being a strong and independent woman, they see me having been truthful with their father when I found a new love.

[jennie-jennie]

I know people would like to believe a "split self" keeps a person from making a decision. But he loves his wife. He LOVES his wife. Leaving her just doesn't make sense. He may drive her crazy till she throws him out, but he will not leave someone he loves of his own accord.

 

I love my exSO too. Leaving him made a lot of sense, since the in-love emotions have been transferred to my MM. I bet it is that way for MOTF's MM as well.

[Spark1111]

Good for both the wife and daughter. They get to express their feelings and he gets to listen. Whether he grows the fortitude needed to find manhood, at least he is more than a little aware of the crap he dragged into their lives.

 

My children were all young adults when DDAY hit, and they had a lot to say to their father.

 

They were stunned and devastated and it was truly heartbreaking to see how shocked they were by his affair; by it's secrecy and deception more than his developing and exercising feelings for another.

 

We could have separated, gone to MC and IC, and decided TOGETHER whether there was a marriage worth saving while he examined his feelings for another. I would have had the opportunities to do same.

 

We ALL would have been better able to maintain respect for a man who had been truthful with us.

 

Up until that point, they considered themselves extremely fortunate and raised by supportive parents who loved them and each other. The knowledge of the deception rocked their worldview. And their view of dad as Superman? Permanently altered.

 

His selfishness and stupidity. His loss. And if he had wound up with his OW? They were very prepared, against my strict admonishment not to, to hate her forever.

 

Why? She helped him perpetuate the dishonesty. DO I agree with this? No, not necessarily. But that is how they felt.

 

Sheesh, what a disasterous beginning to a relationship it would have been.

[Myowntwofeet]

Just because I am not quoting everyone, does not mean I am ignoring them.

 

I did adress GEL and others in general responses, I would simply be repeating myself over and over.

 

I DO NOT know what tomorrow will bring, as she also said it is also possible that both women will move on and MM will be left on his own.

 

It is possible they will reconcile successful, it is possible they will realize two much has happened.

 

It is possible that MM is "split" ( I have no idea and don't care to use it as an excuse) ; however if he is - the likely of reconciling is highly reduced - however that process is also much longer.

 

I have NO idea.

 

What I have said is for the time being - I will support him. That is my decision and one that I really didn't want to debate - I didn't make the choice lightly, but I have made that choice.

 

As for his children. imo, and only imo - It is a very fine line between honest with your children and making them a part of the MARRIAGE.

 

Your children are an integeral part of the family, they should not be held accountable, involved in or used to make the marriage managable.

 

Saying you are going through difficulties, is one thing, giving details to teenagers who are JUST going into their own first relationships is another, again imo.

 

It also scares me when poeple involve them to the extent they do. They need to know they are loved by MOM, by DAD and that that is not dependent on the MARRIAGE. It happens so often, divorce happens and children spend years thinking it was because they weren't loved enough by one of the parents.

 

Personally, how pathetic to put that on any child ( and yes, that gets me heated). Including your children in the family is very different than inviting them into your bedroom.

 

I actually think it is the insecurity of one or the other and is used deep down as a " see, that'll teach you"....Call it whatever you want... I will never agree with it.

[Spark1111]

Of course. So my children see me caring for my own happiness, they see me being a strong and independent woman, they see me having been truthful with their father when I found a new love.

 

No offense Jennie, but they may see you having a secret relationship with a man who never commits full-time to you, who has a wife and family kept in the dark about the realtionship.

 

I am glad you are truthful, though.

 

But his children? What would his children think of their father to discover his secret relationship with a woman not their mother?

 

Because this happened very close to my extended family, and two things happened.

 

The wife was relevated to cannonhood before she died, and she stays there today.

 

The OW is despised as the trashy intoloper, and always will be.

 

The MM? Tolerated, but still cared for by his adult children. But respected? No, absolutely not. He will NEVER enjoy the same respect and admiration from his family, friends and children as he had pre-long-term affair DDAY.

 

And in all of that, the OW really sort of tarnished her halo. He likes her enough, there is still contact, but from what it had been? Uh uh. So, on some leve, he sort of scratches his head and blames her? Maybe a little?

[pureinheart]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

If a parent is involved in an affair...children old enough to understand what's going on are absolutely going to voice how they feel on the subject.

 

They're going to be hurt...not rocket science.

 

Trying to suppress that is far worse than letting them express how they feel.

 

And I would agree...a parent SHOULD take the children into consideration...but the reality is that this is almost never truly the case when an affair happens. The parent is so blinded by their own feelings they tend not to take ANYONE but themselves into consideration. We've seen that repeatedly here...they're just not thinking rationally. If the parent were CAPABLE of taking the children into consideration...then they'd probably be a lot more likely to "do it the right way", and end the marriage before they engage in relations with someone else.

 

In my situation, my wife was all set to go live with OM. The kids could tell that she was clearly completely off her rocker at the time and not at all thinking straight...but she couldn't. (our kids were all older teens at the time). Part of her wake up call was when they called her out on that.

 

What I hear in the "tone" of a lot BS's on LS and in my life, the kids get used as tools to take sides against that horrible, corrupted, not worthy of anything WS. I also just heard from somewhere (I think my daughter) concerning a sitch of this nature that BSO (betrayed significant other), that they did not want the AP around their kids....

 

My mother and father kept me protected from their mess, certainly they did not do everything the right way (no parent is going to), although they did the best they could for me. I was taught not to be up in other peoples business, and that has served me greatly throughout the years.

 

Concerning my kids, I did not run their fathers down...at the first opportunity their fathers ran me down.

 

I encouraged a R with their fathers even though they weren't seeing their kids and flat out refused to pay any child support...I didn't care about the money (though do have to say that spoke volumns). No matter how bad the parent is, they are still the kids parent.

 

ExDM and his exW let the kids in all their business, even the sex life:sick:. Those kids are really messed up because they were privy to adult matters when it didn't concern them. They are up in everybodies business and can be extremely rude at times. They are unable to carry themselves well at all...it's sad and now they have kids that are worse than them.

Edited July 21, 2010 by pureinheart

[bentnotbroken]

My children were all young adults when DDAY hit, and they had a lot to say to their father.

 

They were stunned and devastated and it was truly heartbreaking to see how shocked they were by his affair; by it's secrecy and deception more than his developing and exercising feelings for another.

 

We could have separated, gone to MC and IC, and decided TOGETHER whether there was a marriage worth saving while he examined his feelings for another. I would have had the opportunities to do same.

 

We ALL would have been better able to maintain respect for a man who had been truthful with us.

 

Up until that point, they considered themselves extremely fortunate and raised by supportive parents who loved them and each other. The knowledge of the deception rocked their worldview. And their view of dad as Superman? Permanently altered.

 

His selfishness and stupidity. His loss. And if he had wound up with his OW? They were very prepared, against my strict admonishment not to, to hate her forever.

 

Why? She helped him perpetuate the dishonesty. DO I agree with this? No, not necessarily. But that is how they felt.

 

Sheesh, what a disasterous beginning to a relationship it would have been.

 

 

I agree completely. I dont' live my life independent of those I love. All my decisions affect them. That is something I thought Mr. Messy and I agreed upon. My children too are young adults and their choice to respond to him in the manner they did was a direct result of his contridiction of what he helped to teach them about right and wrong. As are the consequences of the actions that they have called me on. Sheesh indeed.

[Owl]

What I hear in the "tone" of a lot BS's on LS and in my life, the kids get used as tools to take sides against that horrible, corrupted, not worthy of anything WS. I also just heard from somewhere (I think my daughter) concerning a sitch of this nature that BSO (betrayed significant other), that they did not want the AP around their kids....

 

Well, you're of course welcome to your opinion. In my case...there was no way to "hide" it from the kids...on d-day, when confronted, he purchased my wife tickets to fly to live with him. She initially made the choice to go. I told her that it was her choice...and she would be the one to discuss/explain to the kids as need be. When they got home from school that day, I went for a 5 mile walk to give her the time to do so, in her own words without me coloring the situation.

 

My kids weren't "used" for anything. They were old enough to hear from her what was going on, and make their own decisions on their interactions with her and with him (if it had gone that far).

 

 

 

My mother and father kept me protected from their mess, certainly they did not do everything the right way (no parent is going to), although they did the best they could for me. I was taught not to be up in other peoples business, and that has served me greatly throughout the years.

 

Concerning my kids, I did not run their fathers down...at the first opportunity their fathers ran me down.

 

Nor did I run my wife down to my kids. On the contrary...I refused to allow THEM to be disrespectful of her, regardless of what she was doing at the time.

 

But I also didn't encourage them to accept her actions when clearly these actions were against every value that WE had taught them.

 

"Love the person, hate the action".

 

This is probably why our family was able to forgive each other and recover as well as we did, in the long run.