unconventional relationship

[TaraMaiden]

:laugh:

[vodkafan]

Wow this seems to have suddenly generated a lot of responses.

 

Originally Posted by kuma

vodkafan, she doesn't sound like she's in love with him. IMO, she just wants an escape from her marriage life. "She doesn't want ANY man for 7 days a week." Why doesn't she want to live with you everyday?

 

We were conventionally married for over 21 years. It has been a very good marriage but we got into a bad rut the last couple of years. I got obsessed with working overtime. I regret that now of course. When our last child was born 4 years ago we both knew the family was complete. My wife is 42 now I think she sort of saw that as a kind of ending in one way. So yes, there is more than a whiff of mid life crisis in her actions lately. This is giving more details than I wanted to .

She has a lot of life, love and energy left.

Her not wanting to be with anybody for 7 days is more about her rejection of conventional ideas about marriage. Its how society forces women into certain roles. She has told me over and over she is not rejecting everything about her marriage and she wants to be with me still.

She looks at it like this: a lot of women her age might say put all their extra energy into starting their own business. She knows that relationships is what she is good at so she decided she wanted another relationship.

I said to her a while back: "this is the most selfish thing you have ever done."

She said: "Yes but is also the most UNSELFISH thing I have ever done. I have given myself away completely. I never have time alone to myself."

 

I hope that explains it to people. Things are not perfect yet, maybe never will be. Every week has been different so far.

 

I want to deal with one thing once and for all. I don't have any enjoyment of thinking about my wife with someone else. I never even heard of the word cuckold before and I certainly don't have a fetish about it. It says more about some of the minds of some of the posters on here that that is all they think about.

Edited August 25, 2010 by vodkafan

[xxoo]

She looks at it like this: a lot of women her age might say put all their extra energy into starting their own business. She knows that relationships is what she is good at so she decided she wanted another relationship.

 

The marriage was in a bad rut, she was miserable in her primary relationship....but this is what she excels at? Shouldn't her primary marriage be in stellar condition if she is using that as a explanation? If that is her strength, why not focus those skills and energies on her primary relationship before looking elsewhere?

 

I said to her a while back: "this is the most selfish thing you have ever done."

She said: "Yes but is also the most UNSELFISH thing I have ever done. I have given myself away completely. I never have time alone to myself."

 

Obviously, she wouldn't do it if she didn't get a big payoff. This is disingenuous at best.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So VF she is abandoning a 4 year old 3 days a week to play house with someone else with no children and sleep with him and escape YOU and her family for an "extended long weekend"? What are the ages of the other children "below" babysitting age?

 

Have to ask before I review...... Does she work full time and then goes/comes home to you or husband 2? Who has the weekends?

 

I saw one post where she was overcompensating having sex with you 2X/day and less with the OM..... Is not sex the only reason she is with the OM? Excuse my pea brain, but why else would a single man want to enter a polyamorous relationship with a woman but to have sex??? Or is he looking for a maid/cook????

 

Sorry as much as I stayed away from this thread I am now obsessed to know answers.

[Distant78]

:laugh:

 

:lmao:

[Distant78]

I saw one post where she was overcompensating having sex with you 2X/day and less with the OM..... Is not sex the only reason she is with the OM? Excuse my pea brain, but why else would a single man want to enter a polyamorous relationship with a woman but to have sex??? Or is he looking for a maid/cook????

 

I'm willing to bet all the money in my pocket that sex was one of the top five, if not the main reason why she is with OM. That is why this "arrangement" was rushed because his wife was probably too excited about it.

[Scrivdog]

" I never even heard of the word cuckold before "

 

You're only fooling yourself, son. You most certainly know better than anyone what a cuckold is. You could write the book.

 

Your wife sugar-coated it and calle it "polyamory" or some such nonsense. But she knows you're a cuckold. The guy that's banging your wife for free - he knows you're a cuckold. Your kids, unfortunately, they know what a cuckold is now thanks to you. Everybody knows you're a cuckold but you.

 

But please don't act dumb.

 

I can see you're still You're still trying to make it seem like it's all a good thing. Yeah sure. We believe you. You bet.

 

The negative people here are trying to wake you up. You're being had. Your wife pulled a masterful coup. Frankly I'm impressed. She's sucking another guy's c*ck with your knowledge and managed to make you think this is a good thing for you.

 

But this is devastating. You may not be bringing it to the surface yet. But I assure you that there is a part of you that's screaming.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

" I never even heard of the word cuckold before "

 

You're only fooling yourself, son. You most certainly know better than anyone what a cuckold is. You could write the book.

 

Your wife sugar-coated it and calle it "polyamory" or some such nonsense. But she knows you're a cuckold. The guy that's banging your wife for free - he knows you're a cuckold. Your kids, unfortunately, they know what a cuckold is now thanks to you. Everybody knows you're a cuckold but you.

 

But please don't act dumb.

 

I can see you're still You're still trying to make it seem like it's all a good thing. Yeah sure. We believe you. You bet.

 

The negative people here are trying to wake you up. You're being had. Your wife pulled a masterful coup. Frankly I'm impressed. She's sucking another guy's c*ck with your knowledge and managed to make you think this is a good thing for you.

 

But this is devastating. You may not be bringing it to the surface yet. But I assure you that there is a part of you that's screaming.

 

Look that may well be the case, but sometimes you need to tone it down.

 

Now I'd love to know why any om wants to be in a polamorous relationship for any other reason but sex..... Actually it is quite impressive what has happened here. The OM is having an affair with the consent of the husband and is allowed to call and check in every once in a while. He also does not have to worry about the kids or a financial burden.... Heck he doesn't even have to wine and dine, buy presents be surreptitous or worry about being caught. I want to know, whether she has to cook and clean for him..... Also does he date the 4 days she's back at "home"?

 

Very interesting dynamic imo......

Edited August 25, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[crazycatlady]

Wow this seems to have suddenly generated a lot of responses.

 

Originally Posted by kuma

vodkafan, she doesn't sound like she's in love with him. IMO, she just wants an escape from her marriage life. "She doesn't want ANY man for 7 days a week." Why doesn't she want to live with you everyday?

 

We were conventionally married for over 21 years. It has been a very good marriage but we got into a bad rut the last couple of years. I got obsessed with working overtime. I regret that now of course. When our last child was born 4 years ago we both knew the family was complete. My wife is 42 now I think she sort of saw that as a kind of ending in one way. So yes, there is more than a whiff of mid life crisis in her actions lately. This is giving more details than I wanted to .

She has a lot of life, love and energy left.

Her not wanting to be with anybody for 7 days is more about her rejection of conventional ideas about marriage. Its how society forces women into certain roles. She has told me over and over she is not rejecting everything about her marriage and she wants to be with me still.

She looks at it like this: a lot of women her age might say put all their extra energy into starting their own business. She knows that relationships is what she is good at so she decided she wanted another relationship.

I said to her a while back: "this is the most selfish thing you have ever done."

She said: "Yes but is also the most UNSELFISH thing I have ever done. I have given myself away completely. I never have time alone to myself."

 

I hope that explains it to people. Things are not perfect yet, maybe never will be. Every week has been different so far.

 

I want to deal with one thing once and for all. I don't have any enjoyment of thinking about my wife with someone else. I never even heard of the word cuckold before and I certainly don't have a fetish about it. It says more about some of the minds of some of the posters on here that that is all they think about.

 

Bolded by me - I can understand this actually. This is part of why I've no interest to develop an outside emotional relationship with an OM even though my husband would not have a problem with it (and I have in the past stepped out sexually with him approval and blessing). I've no desire to give selflessly of myself to another person. If I'm going outside, I'm going to be selfish. I don't really want to worry about someone else's emotional needs etc etc. I would rather have the time by myself .

 

But I can see the appeal for others. I know it appeals to my H.

 

CCL

[xxoo]

Bolded by me - I can understand this actually. This is part of why I've no interest to develop an outside emotional relationship with an OM even though my husband would not have a problem with it (and I have in the past stepped out sexually with him approval and blessing). I've no desire to give selflessly of myself to another person. If I'm going outside, I'm going to be selfish. I don't really want to worry about someone else's emotional needs etc etc. I would rather have the time by myself .

 

But I can see the appeal for others. I know it appeals to my H.

 

CCL

 

But it appeals to him. So he gets something out of it. That's not selfless.

 

And if both partners are cool with a poly relationship, that's great! I just don't hear VF choosing a poly relationship. And, in that context, it's ridiculous for her to defend her choice as "selfless". It begs the question, "Why not just take some alone time, if it is such a sacrifice to take on another partner?"

 

I guess it depends on your side of the fence. If you are on the side of gaining 3 days a week, it can seem like a selfless choice. If you are on the side of losing 3 days a week with your spouse, it seems pretty clearly selfish.

[Scrivdog]

I just don't hear VF choosing a poly relationship...

 

Me neither.

 

Near the beginning of this thread he admitted to being tormented by the idea of his wife getting it on with another guy during the other guy's "days". Which is a perfectly normal and expected reaction. Clearly he wasn't going into this freely.

 

He blames himself for working overtime and he thinks his wife is "worth sharing". There's his justification for saying it's ok. He's a worm and she's a goddess.

 

VF has elevated her to a sky high pedestal and is taking a huge hit to his self-esteem. VF has let himself get beaten down to a pulp by his wife. Never in history has a man been considered a man as long as he lets other men bang his wife. A guy who lets that happen loses all respect of his peers, his family (kids), and even worse of his own self. I realize he tries to think of himself as an enlightened man by labeling this sh*tfest as a "polyamorous" relationship where he's a "mono" or whatever. Fact is, his wife conned him into letting her cheat and making him think it's a great thing even for him. He's a cuckold in every sense of the word.

 

It's sad that she tries to convince him that he's getting more sex than the other guy. She just started a relationship with the OM - they're going at it 4 times a day. But she has hubby as the meal-ticket and the surrogate mother for the kids.

 

I hope to God he has the sense to find himself another woman on the side. I'll bet real good money that this will help him grow the balls he needs. I also bet that his wifey won't feel so polyamorous when she knows her husband is getting some without her.

[crazycatlady]

But it appeals to him. So he gets something out of it. That's not selfless.

 

And if both partners are cool with a poly relationship, that's great! I just don't hear VF choosing a poly relationship. And, in that context, it's ridiculous for her to defend her choice as "selfless". It begs the question, "Why not just take some alone time, if it is such a sacrifice to take on another partner?"

 

I guess it depends on your side of the fence. If you are on the side of gaining 3 days a week, it can seem like a selfless choice. If you are on the side of losing 3 days a week with your spouse, it seems pretty clearly selfish.

 

XXOO - I can understand that part as well. Because I do think its both. Giving love truly giving love can be selfless. But it is also selfish to split yourself up like that. I personally could not do what Vodka does. I would object to my husband splitting his time with me and another woman for three days and four days. I couldn't split that much time, I couldn't handle that much lack of contact with him. If we were ever to enter into a long term relationship with a third person, it would be a we and not a me and he and a him and her. I think my H's ideal would be once or twice a week visiting her - because she has a right to have her needs met in this relationship - and once a week or once every other week it would be an all of us. Also I think women in relationships give more selfless love then men. (that's just an opinion)

 

All I said was I can understand why she could say what she did. I'm probably capable of having strong emotions for someone else. I'm not capable of what it would take to grow those strong feelings into a relationship. Because I struggle to be selfish in love. I'm learning, but its not something that comes naturally to me.

 

And yeah Vodka might have had difficulties in the beginning. No this wasn't what he wanted, but at least his wife never hid it, never lied about it. Vodka seems to have settled down, he sounds secure in the knowledge that she loves him. Sounds like his needs both physical and emotional are being met. (Are they being met, Vodka?)

[TaraMaiden]

I hope to God he has the sense to find himself another woman on the side. ....I also bet that his wifey won't feel so polyamorous when she knows her husband is getting some without her.

 

Though I wouldn't put it quite as strongly (and goodness knows, I could in some cases!) I have to agree with this statement.

From what I have read (and this isn't a criticism, it's my own observation, in a nutshell) while Mrs Vodkafan has reached a state where her needs are being met, and is engaging with both men as partners in their own right, it seems Vodkafan himself is of a mind to remain "faithful" to his own principles of marriage.

I really do think that widening his own boundaries and considering the option of finding a separate partner of interest would be of benefit to him....

But for the "right" reasons, of course.....

[Scrivdog]

Out of curiosity, I browsed a polyamory forum just to see what people are saying.

 

Lots of people wax all poetic about their great lifestyle - but I did see quite a few threads that seem to match VF's situation. There's plenty of people out there who seem to have been forced to choose to go along with it or else.

 

What's really incredible is how many of these women get all self-righteous when their husbands (they call them the "primary") when they get jealous. It's as though it's HIS problem. Somehow he's screwed up and immature and needs to do something about those pesky emotions.

 

I'm shaking my head in disbelief at these poor people who were coerced into this - both men and women. Some of the posts by the "Monos" where heartwrenching as they tried to come to terms with their feelings of inadequacy and loss - and even worse: thinking that what they're experiencing is immature, unnatural, and otherwise "wrong" emotions.

 

Made me feel even worse for VF.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Out of curiosity, I browsed a polyamory forum just to see what people are saying.

 

Lots of people wax all poetic about their great lifestyle - but I did see quite a few threads that seem to match VF's situation. There's plenty of people out there who seem to have been forced to choose to go along with it or else.

 

What's really incredible is how many of these women get all self-righteous when their husbands (they call them the "primary") when they get jealous. It's as though it's HIS problem. Somehow he's screwed up and immature and needs to do something about those pesky emotions.

 

I'm shaking my head in disbelief at these poor people who were coerced into this - both men and women. Some of the posts by the "Monos" where heartwrenching as they tried to come to terms with their feelings of inadequacy and loss - and even worse: thinking that what they're experiencing is immature, unnatural, and otherwise "wrong" emotions.

 

Made me feel even worse for VF.

 

And again it comes back to why does one enter a poly relationship (and no I don't want to read their site promoting it). I am admittedley pea brained and think way too much about sex.... I don't want to support 2 people financially (certainly would need to earn a ridiculous amount to keep both happy in that case). I don't want to be cooking, cleaning and maintaining two households. Heck forget trying to meet the emotional needs of two people.....

 

Why two people want to share one person can only be about sex.... If one spouse says they want sex 3X/wk and the other says they want it daily and the other one says 4X/wk..... Hey we got a perfect balance..... The problem is all the issues above that need to be juggled.....

 

Let's not forget too that here we have one spouse maintaining the family and the other I venture to guess single and carefree, which is the attraction to VF's wife right now imo.......

[GorillaTheater]

Though I wouldn't put it quite as strongly (and goodness knows, I could in some cases!) I have to agree with this statement.

From what I have read (and this isn't a criticism, it's my own observation, in a nutshell) while Mrs Vodkafan has reached a state where her needs are being met, and is engaging with both men as partners in their own right, it seems Vodkafan himself is of a mind to remain "faithful" to his own principles of marriage.

I really do think that widening his own boundaries and considering the option of finding a separate partner of interest would be of benefit to him....

But for the "right" reasons, of course.....

 

Exactly. I want VF to consider meeting other women and dating not to exact revenge on his wife or play some dead-end tit-for-tat game, but rather to broaden his perspective. Scriv is right, VF DOES have his wife on a pedestal. That's not healthy in any marriage. I firmly believe that if VF gets to know other women, he's going to discover fairly quickly that he can find a relationship that's healthy and positive for him, that he'll find that the things he likes about his wife just may instead be pains in his ass. None of us belong on a pedestal, none of us are worthy of that sort of thing. The sooner VF discovers this, the better for him.

[WalkingOnEggs]

My question is, if you had told your wife that you disagreed with her seeing the other guy and asked her not to pursue a relationship with him or else you'd leave .. what would she have done?

 

If she would let you leave then you know where you stand in the priority list.

[vodkafan]

My question is, if you had told your wife that you disagreed with her seeing the other guy and asked her not to pursue a relationship with him or else you'd leave .. what would she have done?

 

If she would let you leave then you know where you stand in the priority list.

 

I WAS going to leave...my bag was packed and I was half out the door, even though I had nowhere to go...she begged me to stay but said she couldn't be without both of us. I know my wife and I had never seen her so sick and depressed and pulled apart. She is not a game player. She can't even lie very good.

I was not in much better state. I was hurt and betrayed as you would expect. It had knocked me for six.

Rightly or wrongly I came up with the arrangement we have now. I didn't know anything about polyamory I had nothing except hope that I could save my marriage somehow.

Contrary to what lots of people are saying on here relationships are not all about sex. The other guy was not having a great time at my expense. I put all the rules up to my best advantage and he had to agree to them all. In the early days he was more insecure than I was. Every time she went round there he was in tears. She would insist on sticking rigidly to the plan. And she put her own rules on that made our marriage the number one priority. For instance one week one of our childrens birthdays and our wedding anniversary fell on two consecutive days in his 3 days. She insisted on being home for those days, so he would have had only 1 day that week.

She was getting stress from both of us. Yet she seems to feel it is all worth it.

She has not broken my rules once. She believes 100 % that she can love two people and give them what they need. I have never seen her try so hard at anything before. She is not pretending.

And no she doesn't do any of his cooking or cleaning or wash his clothes.

[WalkingOnEggs]

I hear you about her begging for you to stay. But if you had told her "it's him or me", would she have abandoned the idea of pursuing a relationship with this guy or not? Honestly.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Contrary to what lots of people are saying on here relationships are not all about sex. For instance one week one of our childrens birthdays and our wedding anniversary fell on two consecutive days in his 3 days. She insisted on being home for those days, so he would have had only 1 day that week.

She has not broken my rules once. She believes 100 % that she can love two people and give them what they need. I have never seen her try so hard at anything before. She is not pretending.

And no she doesn't do any of his cooking or cleaning or wash his clothes.

 

I cut your post to discuss these items. She sacrifised her time with him to attend HER Child's Brithday and your ANNIVERSARY.... And you consider this a concession on her part????!!!! I guess he had a lot to do that 1 day that was his....

 

If it is not about sex, since she doesn't do cooking or cleaning...... then what exactly???? I am really really stupid. What can she not get over a lunch with him or coffee and still have her free time that she needs to physically move in with him????

 

I feel for you VF, but can bnot for a second understand any of it.....

[xxoo]

I hear you about her begging for you to stay. But if you had told her "it's him or me", would she have abandoned the idea of pursuing a relationship with this guy or not? Honestly.

 

I wonder that, too.

 

While she didn't have a physical affair (and kudos to her for that!), it sounds like she had an emotional affair before starting the poly arrangement. Could this have been treated, and recovered from, as an infidelity with "no contact" and WORK to get your marriage back on track? (I'm still wondering how she believes relationships are where she excels when your marriage was poor and she was having an emotional affair....).

 

What is she doing on her days with him? Are these workdays for her? For him? I wonder how much of this is about a break from the responsibilities of marriage and parenting.

[vodkafan]

I wonder that, too.

 

While she didn't have a physical affair (and kudos to her for that!), it sounds like she had an emotional affair before starting the poly arrangement. Could this have been treated, and recovered from, as an infidelity with "no contact" and WORK to get your marriage back on track? (I'm still wondering how she believes relationships are where she excels when your marriage was poor and she was having an emotional affair....).

 

What is she doing on her days with him? Are these workdays for her? For him? I wonder how much of this is about a break from the responsibilities of marriage and parenting.

 

XXOO, I think you are getting near it.

To be honest, I will now never know what would happen if I had said "forget him". I know she WOULD have tried, because she knew she was in the wrong and she was torn apart by guilt.

But I think she would have eventually cheated on the 3 days I work, she would have had too much time on her hands.

To be honest, right then we were on a knife edge. The mental state she was in, I didn't have the will or courage to push it.

I felt bad too. I could see 20 years -and our family- slipping away.

 

She doesn't work right now. She lost her job when she got depressed about all this. He works a day and a half of his 3 days. I know he doesn't have too much money, but they go out. As yet they haven't managed to bump into any of our mutual friends.

I think some of the benefit to her is a break from marriage and parenting. I have to be honest about that. Our marriage was not always bad but like I say, we did get in a rut last year or two. For many reasons.

[WalkingOnEggs]

Ok so bottom line, if I'm reading this right, you suspect that at best she would have ignored your ultimatum by cheating. She would not dump him. In other words, either way, she would have chosen him over you.

 

I'm not too sure I could live with that. But that's just me.

 

XXOO, I think you are getting near it.

To be honest, I will now never know what would happen if I had said "forget him". I know she WOULD have tried, because she knew she was in the wrong and she was torn apart by guilt.

But I think she would have eventually cheated on the 3 days I work, she would have had too much time on her hands.

To be honest, right then we were on a knife edge. The mental state she was in, I didn't have the will or courage to push it.

I felt bad too. I could see 20 years -and our family- slipping away.

 

She doesn't work right now. She lost her job when she got depressed about all this. He works a day and a half of his 3 days. I know he doesn't have too much money, but they go out. As yet they haven't managed to bump into any of our mutual friends.

I think some of the benefit to her is a break from marriage and parenting. I have to be honest about that. Our marriage was not always bad but like I say, we did get in a rut last year or two. For many reasons.

[TaraMaiden]

Ok, bit by bit we're stripping away the layers of onion here....

 

VF, are you still 'ok' with things, or is this discussion getting to be...." too close for comfort"....?

 

Are you still of the same mind, that your desire is to remain faithful to the concept of your marriage?

 

Do you think at one point, this will get boring?

 

I fail to see how the status quo as it currently is, can be sustained without boredom and habitual familiarity setting in. What happens as when and if she decides one day this is just getting too tedious, monotonous and unexciting?

 

Interesting, the turns this discussion takes. How we do think things over, we humans......

[vodkafan]

Ok so bottom line, if I'm reading this right, you suspect that at best she would have ignored your ultimatum by cheating. She would not dump him. In other words, either way, she would have chosen him over you.

 

I'm not too sure I could live with that. But that's just me.

 

Hi walking on eggs, you are not reading it right. How do you get that she would choose him over me when she says she wants us both? I had already made her leave the house once when I found out about the text affair. She could have stayed away if that's what she wanted. She came back of her own accord. Then I said I would leave. That's when she begged me to stay.

This thing is way more complex than that.