unconventional relationship

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The kids. You know, if I was in VF's place, I'd divorce my wife rather than share her. It wouldn't even be a question.

 

But I think both of us would be hard-pressed to argue that divorce would be better for the kids than the current arrangement. Equally bad, perhaps, but not better.

 

Like those in the infidelity section, she is having an affair, but still at home and having sex with her husband. Often we hear those having affairs are actually better at home while hiding their secret.

 

In this case however there is no secret and time will tell how long it continues until the cracks form.

[crazycatlady]

Vodka - you mentioned that things change week to week, how have they changed this past week? I'm just curious as to the changing of the dynamics.

 

Do the thoughts crossing your mind disrupt your sleep (that's usually my clue that its more then just thoughts, but something that needs to be addressed so I do)?

 

I know I asked about the sex, because well sex is important to me too , but when the sex is the level I need it to be, sex no longer is an issue. I get jealous if my H sees a friend when I felt I wasn't getting enough sex. It doesn't happen often, and normally I will say no I want you to stay at home because I need more attention. But a couple of times I've dealt with the jealousy because I knew the friend really needed him that night. But I always let him know that I'm needing more attention when that happens.

 

And Vodka dear, being open does not make something weird

 

Tara - I'm enjoying your words. You say things in a very eloquent way. I wish there was a like button.

 

CCL

[vodkafan]

Again VF forgets about the kids or the fact his wife was fired because frankly the OM was more important then her job...... Conveniently forgotten in the conversation.

 

Tood, I never forget about the kids....I just don't wanna dangle them out on here.

Her losing the job was never an issue..it was a crap job. We didn't need the money she made. In fact we didn't need me to be doing overtime. She likes it much better now that I don't do extra hours. Next week the kids go back to school after summer break, we plan to do a lot together then knocking the house around. She wouldn't have time to work now anyway.

 

I should say, I don't feel, as many have said on here, that I have "half a wife". 4 quality days is better than 7 days when your wife is not with you mentally.

Since this began I have looked at other people in the street and thought :

Sure, you are together 7 days but are you really happy? I dunno.

[vodkafan]

Vodka - you mentioned that things change week to week, how have they changed this past week? I'm just curious as to the changing of the dynamics.

 

Do the thoughts crossing your mind disrupt your sleep (that's usually my clue that its more then just thoughts, but something that needs to be addressed so I do)?

 

CCL

 

I guess this week we are moving towards more flexibility. Last week we experimentally ditched the no contact rule. Nobody got jealous. It was nice to be able to phone her up on his days. She texted me at work and sent romantic messages.

 

In the beginning I could hardly sleep. Now my sleep patterns are OK. I work night shift and I get odd days/nights when I can't sleep anyway.

 

About the sex, our set up is completely different to yours. I don't get jealous because when she is gone I shut thoughts of her being with him in that way out of my mind. I always have. Whether he has the same mental defence mechanism I don't know. That's his problem.

[crazycatlady]

Didnt your husband sleep with your sister CCL?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...So much for open marriage huh?

 

The open marriage didn't make him cheat. He let himself cheat. He also confessed and has done his best to atone for his selfishness. Are you 100% perfect? Is anyone? When push came to shove, I was who he stood by. I find forgiveness when remorse is real to be easy to give. I saw what he was doing to himself during the affair, both before I knew and after I found out. The guilt ate him up.

 

I dealt with it my way and because of that I have my marriage stronger then it was before. A partnership that fullfills us both. Yes we do things differently. We did things differently from the very beginning. It suits us, our needs and our desires. And by golly my pleasure in this marriage (emotional, mental, as well as physical) so outweighs the pain that has happened that its not even in the same state, let alone ballpark.

 

I must say I find it so funny that either the fact we are open or the fact that it was my sister he cheated on me with then anything I say should be discounted. Whatever man, whatever. I'm happy. He's happy. Its not perfect but man is it perfectly us.

 

Vodka - sorry for the t/j man.

 

CCL

[crazycatlady]

I guess this week we are moving towards more flexibility. Last week we experimentally ditched the no contact rule. Nobody got jealous. It was nice to be able to phone her up on his days. She texted me at work and sent romantic messages.

 

In the beginning I could hardly sleep. Now my sleep patterns are OK. I work night shift and I get odd days/nights when I can't sleep anyway.

 

About the sex, our set up is completely different to yours. I don't get jealous because when she is gone I shut thoughts of her being with him in that way out of my mind. I always have. Whether he has the same mental defence mechanism I don't know. That's his problem.

 

 

With the move to being more flexable, that's more like ours. The jealousy thing isn't about thinking of him with someone else, its because I wanted some and wasn't getting it. And that is so rare. Like maybe once a year?

 

I love text messages like that. I think the progession is nice. You seem a lot more comfortable. Good for you guys.

 

I could understand why sleep patterns when working nights can be a little disturbed. It also doesn't sound like you keep the same hours when you are off either which will mess up the sleep cycle too.

 

Only you know if its worth it or not on your end. Only she knows if its worth it or not on her end. And only the guy knows on his. As long as you all can be honest about it, even if it ends, it hopefully will end peacefully.

[jenifer1972]

I guess this week we are moving towards more flexibility. Last week we experimentally ditched the no contact rule. Nobody got jealous. It was nice to be able to phone her up on his days. She texted me at work and sent romantic messages.

 

In the beginning I could hardly sleep. Now my sleep patterns are OK. I work night shift and I get odd days/nights when I can't sleep anyway.

 

About the sex, our set up is completely different to yours. I don't get jealous because when she is gone I shut thoughts of her being with him in that way out of my mind. I always have. Whether he has the same mental defence mechanism I don't know. That's his problem.

 

 

I always enjoy what Tara says about things, but I don't share her viewpoint here. The rest of us are not jealous, nor wish we could do this too, we think you are being taken advantage of.

 

I would find this kind of arrangement my worse nightmare. Just be aware that you really are not fully feeling what is going on here and being done to you. You shutting out thoughts of another man having sex with your wife while you are home is denial, and you are bargaining. I think the reality of all this will hit you like a ton of bricks one day when you least expect it.

[Distant78]

Exactly. This "arrangement" is just as bad as what my xw dished out to me. OP says how he blocks out the thoughts of his W with OM, well, we all know that's not true. Its pure denial and there is no "mental defence mechanism." Deep down, its hurting and OP thinks about it and he should. It should give him the courage to move on and be happy for himself, instead of his wife eating all the cake. Jen is right: the bricks will be coming soon, and i'm sure some of the couples OP sees that have each other for 7 days are surely happy and don't resort to giving their spouse to someone else just so that the marriage can "survive." No wife is still better than half a wife. We are not jealous, we are just giving our viewpoints and we don't want the OP to sacrifice all of his sanity, just so his W won't leave him.

[TaraMaiden]

I always enjoy what Tara says about things, but I don't share her viewpoint here.

You're most kind...

The rest of us are not jealous, nor wish we could do this too, we think you are being taken advantage of.

I'm not for one moment suggesting anybody is envious, or that anybody else should do this. I'm merely asking people to understand and appreciate thst others can do it. It can be done, and it is a possible scenario. Heck, it's happening.

Many people on here are pouring scorn on the whole dynamic without seeing that VF is speaking from a base of having tried everything whereas others, "limited" (for want of a much better word) ro conventional scenarios, feel it's an impossibility which will in altogether too short a time, crumble. I'm just asking people to open their minds to what is happening, and work with VF on his current evolution in the relationship, rather than seek to undermine its foundations.

 

I would find this kind of arrangement my worse nightmare. Just be aware that you really are not fully feeling what is going on here and being done to you. You shutting out thoughts of another man having sex with your wife while you are home is denial, and you are bargaining. I think the reality of all this will hit you like a ton of bricks one day when you least expect it.

And this is precisely my point.

launching from your own viewpoint into how this would not work for you, you then proceed to tell VF what is happening within the confines of his own home, room and cranium. Just because it wouldn't work for you.

The "reality of all this hit him like a ton of bricks" when he first discovered what was going on.

Since then, he's used this ton of bricks to build himself a neat little extension.

 

It's not the crap we find ourselves in, that determines who we are.

It's what we do with it.

[JustJoe]

After laboriously reading this thread from start to finish, I have come to a few conclusions. If this works for VF, then it's his life and good luck to him. I'm very much impressed with the wife, who is obviously a master manipulator. She does less housework, spends less time with the kids, has two men to have sex with and has made VF believe that it was his decision, and has both guys so whipped that the idea of finding their own "bit", on the side, is repulsive to them. She definitely needs to go into advertizing. VF, do what you will, but answer me one question.....have you no pride at all? You have sex every day of your 4 days, with another man's semen in her? As I said, if it floats your boat, all well and good, but I know that I'm worth more than sloppy seconds and a part-time lover. With all due respect, JMHO.

[Distant78]

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Hope OP gets out of the house before it burns down.

[JustJoe]

BTW, VF, your analogy doesn't hold water. You say that 4 good days with her are better than 7 half-assed days. First off, how you spend ALL of your days depends on the quality of the relationship, not the number of sex partners. Secondly, if you use the same logic, you could have 1 super fantastic, day with her if you just let her have another guy for each other day of the week. ............Taramaiden, you logic is flawed. You say that because we are mammals we are biologically programmed against monogamy, this is no more true than saying that because some mammals are herbivores ALL mammals must be herbivores. We may be the only monogamous species of mammal. Perhaps monogamy is an advanced state?

[JustJoe]

Besides, one very small population in Tibet, is no glowing reference for Poly relationships, is it?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'll follow the thread going forward as it is fascinating, but will limit my comments as really VF, like the abused spouse analogy above, seems to have rationalized this to his acceptance of this situation.......

[kuma]

The fact that VF and his wife and her lover have chosen to diversify and seek a third, alternative option, begs the question:

 

The question is not so much why/how can they do it - but why/how can others not?

 

My reason: I want my H just for me and I want to be the one just for him.

 

If this arrangement makes VF and her OM truly happy, I'm happy for them. I agree with you that he should consider having a GF. But I don't think she can accept the idea of her husband having a lover.

Edited September 3, 2010 by kuma

[GorillaTheater]

I agree with you that he should consider having a GF. But I don't think she can accept the idea of her husband having a lover.

 

I think it would be very interesting and telling to find out how the wife would stand on that issue.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I think it would be very interesting and telling to find out how the wife would stand on that issue.

 

But that would constitute an "open" marriage on his part, thus no longer polyamory.....

[xxoo]

lol on the 15 minute exile

 

But that would constitute an "open" marriage on his part, thus no longer polyamory.....

 

Not necessarily. Open means more like open to new partners, often including casual partners. Poly can be a closed group of three, or a primary couple each with a secondary, or other set-ups, but not "open" to new or casual partners.

 

VF, have you discussed the option of you having a secondary partner with your wife? What are her feelings?

 

I understand not wanting to discuss the details of the kids on here.

 

As for other couples being happy together 7 days a week--many of us are! H and I never seem to get enough time alone together, despite living together 7 days a week. I always want more. You and your wife were happy 7 days a week for a long time, weren't you?

[TaraMaiden]

Taramaiden, you logic is flawed. You say that because we are mammals we are biologically programmed against monogamy, this is no more true than saying that because some mammals are herbivores ALL mammals must be herbivores. We may be the only monogamous species of mammal. Perhaps monogamy is an advanced state?

Thanks JJ....

But the 'Flawed Logic' isn't mine. I have taken data from several authoritative wbsites all of which state that the greatest majority of mammals are not monogamous, and that human beings fall into that category. I happen to agree with it, but it's not my proposal. They're findings put forward by Naturalists and biologists. I maintain that fidelity is conditioned, but desire is natural, and we are not originally programmed to remain with simply one partner, either consecutively, or concurrently.

The amount of break-ups and divorces due fundamentally to one partner cheating, would seem to bear this out.

 

http://ask.yahoo.com/20061110.html

 

http://www.trinity.edu/rnadeau/fys/barash%20on%20monogamy.htm

 

(From the above website)

NEXT STOP, Homo sapiens. Social conservatives like to point out what they see as threats to "family values." But they don't have the slightest idea how great that real threat is, or where it comes from. Monogamy is definitely under siege, not by government, declining morals, or some vast homosexual conspiracy -- but by our own evolutionary biology. Infants have their infancy. And adults? Adultery.

 

To begin with, we probably never occupied an Edenic paradise of one-to-one fidelity. The evidence is as follows: First, men are significantly larger than females, a pattern consistently found among polygynous species. From deer to seals to primates, the harem-keeping sex is the larger one, because competition among harem keepers rewards those who are larger and brawnier. Second, around the world, men are more violent than women (see Evidence No. 1; it avails little in acquiring a large number of mates for a male to be physically intimidating unless he is also inclined to make use of his assets). Third, girls become sexually mature earlier than do boys -- another tell-tale sign of polygyny, because the intense competition among harem keepers conveys an evolutionary payoff for the "keeping" sex to delay maturation until individuals are large, strong, and possibly canny enough to have some chance of success. And fourth, before the cultural homogenization that came with Western colonialism, more than three-quarters of all human societies were polygynous.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamy

 

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/are-humans-meant-to-be-monogamous-0297/

 

From the above website)

"I don't think we are a monogamous animal," said Pepper Schwartz, a professor of sociology at the University of Washington in Seattle. "A really monogamous animal is a goose – which never mates again even if its mate is killed."

 

She added, "Monogamy is invented for order and investment – but not necessarily because it's 'natural.'"

[Distant78]

But that would constitute an "open" marriage on his part, thus no longer polyamory.....

 

Poly, poly, poly. Open, open, open.

[crazycatlady]

Poly, poly, poly. Open, open, open.

 

That made me laugh. I don't know why but it did. Thanks.

 

Course I also heard it to the tune of "badger badger badger mushroom mushroom mushroom" if you know it.

[Distant78]

That made me laugh. I don't know why but it did. Thanks.

 

Course I also heard it to the tune of "badger badger badger mushroom mushroom mushroom" if you know it.

 

Yes, I heard that tune.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

poly,poly,poly, open, open, open, swinging, swinging, swinging, mono, mono, mono...... Oops, one does not belong......

[crazycatlady]

poly,poly,poly, open, open, open, swinging, swinging, swinging, mono, mono, mono...... Oops, one does not belong......

 

I'm a happy open swinging emotionally mono married to a poly. They just belong in certain orders.

 

But to you guys three of those don't belong. Life is short, gotta make of it what you will. Sure its not the "right" way .... but who cares. And there are people out there who have the alternative lifestyles who will tell Vodka he's doing it wrong. I know i've heard it enough times from swingers.

[jenifer1972]

It's not the crap we find ourselves in, that determines who we are.

It's what we do with it.

 

Perhaps build sandcastles, make cookies? I think I am more pessimistic about human nature than you are TaraMaiden. I guess I don't believe the old song, "everything is beautiful in its own way"....but we all make compromises and do what we need to to make our way through this cruel capricious world as best we can. Different paths for different people. Hopefully VF is getting something out of all the different viewpoints.