unconventional relationship

[Scrybe]

Vodka - I find your situation fascinating I must admit. I think I would describe myself as poly and my wife as firmly mono. I really appreciate the contributions from Taramaiden and CCL to your post. Both of them have really opened my eyes a little wider. I knew about polyamory but not much. It's not often I see well thought out and considerate responses to non-traditional relationships so thank you ladies!

 

As Tara stated I for one desire to be poly but chose fidelity for various reasons. I think my wife understands that I'm capable of being in a poly relationship quite easily but trusts that I will remain mono. Her trust is so important to me and I gave it a lot of thought before deciding to ask her to marry me. I knew that I was marrying a mono and therefore choosing to close the door on future poly relationships and I made my peace with that. She understands she was marrying a poly and respects the choice I was making and doesn't judge me for how I am and believes in me. Silently (but not secretly) :-) I hope she is open to it down the line but I accept that she may never be. She admits that she may be open in the future but knows that she may never be. We understand each other and are happy with our arrangement.

 

All I have to say to you about the matter is that I understand and feel for your concern and really hope that it works out. Having said what I said earlier I still think if 20 years into my marriage my wife approached me with this proposition I'd probably be shocked, surprised, angry, confused, sad, hurt dissapointed......but I don't think I would automatically deny her. I probably would feel these emotions mostly because deep in my heart I always hope to be enough for her but I allow a little space for the possibility that I'm not.

 

I think I may react the way you did. Many people don't buy into it but I think it's worth a shot. It might fail just like any other relationship might fail but I applaude you for thinking outside of the box and taking a risk. I think true love is about taking risks sometimes. I also think your wife is a lucky woman to have an understanding husband like you. I wish you all the luck.

[vodkafan]

Hi Taramaiden,

 

thank you for your overview of my situation, none of which I could find any fault with. I agree that there is no "blame" for my wife's falling in love with this man; it just happened.

We do identify much more with the polyandry model, basically a wife with two husbands. It is really the woman in this who has the hardest job, now I have thought more about it. I am sure there will be times when she is fed up with the both of us.

 

About my early comment about not-very-intelligent responses, that was really only referring to one reply in particular, which I found rather crude; every body else has been very helpful. So my apologies if I stung anybody.

 

Thank you for your good wishes. We are certainly going to do our best to make this work out, and my wife has also given me a commitment that whatever happens she does not want to split up, she still loves me and wants me. We have invested 20 years into each other.

[vodkafan]

..sometimes things happen the way they happen for a reason.

 

CCL

 

Yes that I feel also. Although there was some deceit there at the beginning which hurt me, if it hadn't happened the exact way it did I don't think I would have been ready for the solution we hit upon.

[vodkafan]

I think I may react the way you did. Many people don't buy into it but I think it's worth a shot. It might fail just like any other relationship might fail but I applaude you for thinking outside of the box and taking a risk. I think true love is about taking risks sometimes. I also think your wife is a lucky woman to have an understanding husband like you. I wish you all the luck.

 

Thanks Scrybe. Good luck with your marriage too. Might sound strange coming from me but I really do believe in marriage, it is a noble and good thing that brings out the best in people.

[BellaBellaBella]

Vodka,

 

This is purely curious me asking. Why are you so sure there is no sex between them? I do know in poly, you should move the relationships the at the pace of the slowest person.

 

I don't personally think a child being sick, is a reason not to call. While she is in love with another man. As a mother I would be upset not to know about a problem with my child.

 

We have been discussing going to a poly situation. Not sure if it is going to happen or not.

[vodkafan]

Vodka,

 

This is purely curious me asking. Why are you so sure there is no sex between them? I do know in poly, you should move the relationships the at the pace of the slowest person.

 

I don't personally think a child being sick, is a reason not to call. While she is in love with another man. As a mother I would be upset not to know about a problem with my child.

 

We have been discussing going to a poly situation. Not sure if it is going to happen or not.

 

Oh no, there is sex between them now, since we started this arrangement. But the relationships are completely separate. She spends 4 days with me, during that time she has no contact with him at all, no phone or text. Then she lives with him for 3 days and during that time she has no contact with me, unless it is a dire emergency. (she does phone the children). That way she can devote herself more intensely to each person without interference from the other.

That is the basic rules I laid down.

[xxoo]

We do identify much more with the polyandry model, basically a wife with two husbands.

 

If you view him as a second husband, why are you misleading the kids about who she is with?

 

I'm not saying that you have to discuss sex with the kids, but why lie about her being with this man? According to their ages, they may simply accept that is where mommy is, or ask about the relationship. And, if he is really a second husband, they should be answered honestly, imo.

 

I'm just trying to imagine how it will play out in the future when the kids realize that mom had a second husband I can get not wanting to share too much if you are unsure that the relationship is serious, but maybe then spending 3 days a week there is moving too fast if it necessitates lies?

[vodkafan]

If you view him as a second husband, why are you misleading the kids about who she is with?

 

I'm not saying that you have to discuss sex with the kids, but why lie about her being with this man? According to their ages, they may simply accept that is where mommy is, or ask about the relationship. And, if he is really a second husband, they should be answered honestly, imo.

 

I'm just trying to imagine how it will play out in the future when the kids realize that mom had a second husband I can get not wanting to share too much if you are unsure that the relationship is serious, but maybe then spending 3 days a week there is moving too fast if it necessitates lies?

 

We are only 2 weeks into this arrangement. We are still working things out, that's all I can tell you.

[crazycatlady]

Scrybe - I like your statement that true love is worth the risk. Because I believe the same thing. I wish my h had the strenght to be like you, but I accept that we are all human and mistakes happen, I've made my own which in their own way were just as damaging.

 

Vodka - I wish you luck. Keep us posted with how its going.

 

CCL

[sally4sara]

Goodness me no we are English I couldn't possibly bring up that subject.

Actually VV, thanks for your concern, that side of things has been dealt with.

 

If you're going to stand a chance of pulling this off successfully, you're going to need to become better at communication. You should NOT feel any subject is off limits or you will end up angry and on the sidelines.

[denise_xo]

Goodness me no we are English I couldn't possibly bring up that subject.

Actually VV, thanks for your concern, that side of things has been dealt with.

 

If you're going to stand a chance of pulling this off successfully, you're going to need to become better at communication. You should NOT feel any subject is off limits or you will end up angry and on the sidelines.

 

Surely that was a piece of good English irony??

 

Vodkafan, I don't have any good advice but wanted to say this is one of the most interesting threads I've read on here. I'm quite impressed by the way you are exploring this. Keep us posted.

[TaraMaiden]

Surely that was a piece of good English irony??

 

Vodkafan, I don't have any good advice but wanted to say this is one of the most interesting threads I've read on here. I'm quite impressed by the way you are exploring this. Keep us posted.

 

Yes, that was indeed, 'Good ol' British Irony'....

I have a great joke to illustrate that precise irony, but it would be off-topic....

 

Vodkafan did also confirm that 'the subject' had been covered (that is to say, the consideration of STDs...)

 

As for telling the children, which I think has been mentioned now, a couple of times:

 

I think this is an arrangement between adults. It should remain so until such a time as the situation is deemed appropriate and timely to be revealed.

 

I personally think this is an extraordinarily difficult decision to make - and I further think that there are no 'right' answers, because while people with children can only imagine how they personally would deal with the entire matter regarding their own children - nobody here knows, or even has an insight or inkling, into what kind of relationship Vodkafan and his wife have with their children.

Revelation and discussion is entirely dependent on their upbringing (up to this point), taught and inherited moral values, conditioning, peer information, religious influence, education, age, gender and affinity with the parents.

There is also, ultimately underpinning this, the type of character and temperaments the different children have.

 

I have 2 daughters.

When my ex- and I separated, we took the decision to broach the subject with them in a particular way.

we felt it was absolutely 100% correct at the time, and we discussed the matter with them by mutual agreement, and in a way we eventually decided, between ourselves, would be best all round.

The result was that I was estranged from them both for 4 years.

My eldest daughter and I now have a wonderfully rekindled relationship and have become inseparably close, once again.

My youngest is less communicative, but we are talking and on good terms, nevertheless.

 

So it doesn't matter how well we, as parents, try to judge something as being the right way, the appropriate way, the timely way to discuss things with our children.

We don't always get it right, no matter how well-intentioned our plan.

The bottom line is that there is no right way, and no right time.

 

I really don't envy VF and his wife having to broach this matter with 6 probably very different children.

This concerns me, but not for any reason of ethical or social morality.

 

it concerns me because it's a given almost guaranteed fact, that this is going to affect them all very differently.

[spookie]

I don't mean to be rude, but you posted looking for opinions... so here is mine.

 

You're a chump!

 

You're getting the short end of the stick in this relationship. You work full-time are a full-time father, while she abandons the family for half the week to fcvk another man? WTF? Why are you ok with this? The sheer inequality of the situation would enrage me.

 

You didn't want to ruin her QT with him, so you took off work to deal with an emergency involving your children???

 

Why do you feel she's entitled to have her cake and eat it?

 

All of us experience desire for other people... it doesn't mean it's our right to pursue everyone we feel "love" for.

[TaraMaiden]

I don't mean to be rude...spookie...but scrutiny of your record in relationships is hardly one from which a logical standpoint can be expected.

Although I will concede you are entitled to your opinion, this guys seems in a much better place, head-wise than you are.

 

He loves his wife.

To the extent that he would do anything to keep her, keep her happy, and keep her happy with him.

 

It is everybody's 'right' to pursue anyone we feel love for.

Of course it is.

That's what free will and choice is all about.

All we have to do is to consider all options and accept the consequences.

Unconditionally.

 

Looks like this is a pretty healthy way to proceed, for this couple.

If they've come to an arrangement where everybody gets what they want through compromise, agreement and consideration, why do you have a problem with this....?

[vodkafan]

I'm reading this to mean that the way you have it set up, your wife essentially abandons her children for the three days she's with the other guy, except for phone contact?

 

Look, having multiple husbands is one thing, and I guess if you're OK with that, then I guess you're OK with that.

 

But I don't get the part where a mom leaves her children for three days at a time to be with someone who is not their father.

 

I guess I better deal with this issue of the children. For one thing, we have brought up 6 children together over the last 20 years. So we know a thing or two.

But I am going to go out on a limb here, which many may not agree with;

but I think that 1) periodic, regular separation from mummy will not do them lasting harm, and may even help their development (working mums sometimes do a better job than SAH mums?)

2) the separation sure does mummy good.

 

Oviously, the children are very much on our minds at the moment. Even though it may not seem it.

[vodkafan]

The sheer inequality of the situation would enrage me.

 

.

 

I had the rage, spookie; it turned out to be rather a useless emotion in this situation.

[vodkafan]

People seem interested in how it is going. OK here is something that happened yesterday that has illustrated to me how this thing is changing us and how we deal with things.

Yesterday (friday) was the middle of the other guys 3 days. I came home from nightshift and discovered that unbeknown to us he had engaged in a small piece of loose cannon activity. I was angry and broke the no contact rule to phone my wife. There was a few irritated texts between us but she rectified the situation at her end (I suspect she was as mad at him as I was)

After seeing to the kids I went to bed still angry. This had bought up some other issues that I had overlooked (sorry cannot be more specific) and we both knew that we would have to have a showdown about it and hash it out Once she got back.

Now a strange thing happened. After I cooled down and thought about it I decided I would shelve the issues until a later time (which is unlike me because I have to sort things out straight away and have no patience)

because 1) I wanted our first month to be as harmonious as possible

2) I decided that the issues were actually not so important that we should spend 1 or 2 of our 4 days arguing; those 4 days are precious to us now.

 

Later I received a text from my wife apologising both for the other guy and her, and expressing basically the same sentiments as I was feeling.

This is so unlike our previous married behaviour.

[xxoo]

Tara, I'm not commenting on how or if the OP and his wife should tell the kids. I'm commenting on the fact that they are presently lying to the kids. In general, lying raises a red flag. If you don't feel you can be truthful with the kids (vaguely...no need for more info than they ask for), maybe that is an indication that the plan isn't as well thought out as it needs to be.

[BellaBellaBella]

There is actually a website called www.polyamoryonline.org

That has a children's section and is a place to discuss issues and joys of polyamory.

[TaraMaiden]

Tara, I'm not commenting on how or if the OP and his wife should tell the kids. I'm commenting on the fact that they are presently lying to the kids. In general, lying raises a red flag. If you don't feel you can be truthful with the kids (vaguely...no need for more info than they ask for), maybe that is an indication that the plan isn't as well thought out as it needs to be.

I understand what you're saying, and I do, honestly, see your point.

but as I stated, if most of us here could not possibly contemplate conduct a relationship of this kind ourselves, it makes it all the more difficult for us to consider or opine what the "right" think to do by the children, is.

 

By conventional and usual social standards, as we know them here in the west, the whole thing is 'wrong'.

I know lying is frankly, wrong.

But there are huge swathes of grey areas that are questionable... whilst morally it could be see to be a bad thing to lie, emotionally, it's a minefield. Ultimately, both VF and his wife are trying to protect the children - and themselves - from something so frankly unusual and bizarre, I'm not really sure I could say they are adopting the wrong methods.

 

we don't know the age-span of the children (or do we...? has it been mentioned?) but really, in their shoes, bearing in mind the diversity of the ages, and their genders - truly: how would you handle opening up to your children about this?

[spookie]

I don't mean to be rude...spookie...but scrutiny of your record in relationships is hardly one from which a logical standpoint can be expected.

 

What is that supposed to mean? I'm in a very happy relationship myself, thank you very much.

 

Where this thread is concerned, I am surprised by the general opinion that its her right to break their wedding vows if she wants, and OP is a great husband, not a chump, for choosing to adjust to that, rather than standing up for himself and telling her no, you can't fcvk both of us jsut cause you want to.

[TaraMaiden]

What is that supposed to mean? I'm in a very happy relationship myself, thank you very much.

 

Where this thread is concerned, I am surprised by the general opinion that its her right to break their wedding vows if she wants, and OP is a great husband, not a chump, for choosing to adjust to that, rather than standing up for himself and telling her no, you can't fcvk both of us jsut cause you want to.

 

What you fail to understand is that she had not broken her wedding vows when this situation was revealed.

 

What you fail to understand is that she chose to not go behind her husband's back and cheat - as so many more people (both male and female) do.

 

 

What you fail to understand that this arrangement, agreement and compromise has been arrived at, by both partners being mature, and discussing the true implications of such actions.

 

What you fail to understand is that by choosing this route, the pair of them remain married and unified, as they both want.

 

The pair of them maintain a good relationship as they both want, and they both gain the benefit of remaining married, together and with the children.

As they both want.

In my opinion - and as you say, in the opinion of many on this thread - what they have actually done is far more sensible, "adult", mature and acceptable way of dealing with something that might otherwise leave 8 people thoroughly broken, resentful, miserable and divided.

Don't you see that by reaching a compromise and agreement like this, it is actually far less emotionally traumatic than cheating, separating, divorcing and giving in to conflict?

 

You would never consider such a route, it's obvious.

but I think they've actually caused far less collateral long-term damage than anything else they might have done.

It's a well-known fact that any spouse solidly refusing to compromise, budge or meet the other half way, ultimately pays the price for their immoveable stance by watching the relationship suffer.

The OP was not prepared to make, force or oblige his wife to do anything that would ultimately have threatened her feelings for him.

because had he done as you suggest, then almost certainly, this situation would have followed a far more negative path.

[xxoo]

we don't know the age-span of the children (or do we...? has it been mentioned?) but really, in their shoes, bearing in mind the diversity of the ages, and their genders - truly: how would you handle opening up to your children about this?

 

I'd be honest ("Mommy is at her friend's house for a couple days. She'll be back on X day, and then we'll all do X together ). Keep it honest, with the focus on happy mommy returning to happy family.

 

Then field questions from each individual child as they come up--honestly. Kids of different ages and personalities will have different questions, but all deserve truthful answers.

[vodkafan]

I'd be honest ("Mommy is at her friend's house for a couple days. She'll be back on X day, and then we'll all do X together ). Keep it honest, with the focus on happy mommy returning to happy family.

 

Then field questions from each individual child as they come up--honestly. Kids of different ages and personalities will have different questions, but all deserve truthful answers.

 

xxoo, the first part of what you said, that is exactly the way we are doing it at the moment. We gave it a month to see if this thing will work, then we will decide what further information to tell them.

[quercus.robur]

I have 2 daughters.

When my ex- and I separated, we took the decision to broach the subject with them in a particular way.

TM, how old were they?