unconventional relationship

[kuma]

I fail to see how the status quo as it currently is, can be sustained without boredom and habitual familiarity setting in. What happens as when and if she decides one day this is just getting too tedious, monotonous and unexciting?

 

She'll have another relationship or she'll deal with her issues (boredom and depression) and work on her marriage.

[Scrivdog]

Hi walking on eggs, you are not reading it right. How do you get that she would choose him over me when she says she wants us both? I had already made her leave the house once when I found out about the text affair. She could have stayed away if that's what she wanted. She came back of her own accord. Then I said I would leave. That's when she begged me to stay.

This thing is way more complex than that.

 

It's not complex at all. It's really very simple.

 

If you did like most men would and told her she has 2 chioces - it's either she drops the other turkey and forgets his number or you walk. No polyamorous crap. You or him. Period.

 

Are you saying she would drop this guy or not?

 

Your answer was that she would pretend to drop him but would cheat. So the answer sounds like a big fat no to me.

[crazycatlady]

Vodka - Do you think this love affair she is having with the other man is going to last or do you think eventually it will wane eventually?

 

How did the other guy handle the 2 days being cut off his time? I found it interesting, and very telling, that she didn't suggest switching two of those days with the days she is normally home so not to deprive him of his time. But she didn't do that, which I think speaks of her primary commitment being to you and your marriage together.

 

CCL

[xxoo]

When she says she's good at relationships....do you think what she means is that she gets the most reward from relationships? Meaning that, the way other people derive a sense of satisfaction and achievement from career, or competitive sports, or material things--she gets that from relationships? I can definitely relate that, if that is what she means.

 

If that is the case, I can see how she would be in a very bad place when your relationship soured, and was vulnerable when a happy, enjoyable relationship bloomed with the other guy. That doesn't excuse her emotional affair, but I could understand how she got there.

 

Also, to be honest, this guy sounds kind of pathetic (crying???). I wonder if she is a rescuer, and found a wounded bird to nurture. I wonder if that is part of the "selfless" assessment: because she feels she is doing this for him, because he somehow needs her. She loves him and wants to care for him, be a companion for him, give him some joy in life.

 

Here is the part that defies logic for me: if she says she loves you both, she should want the BEST for both of you. And the best for both of you is a full partner (that is what you've stated you want....and I'm betting it is what the other guy wants. The guy was crying, for goodness sake.) If she really loves him, why can't she see that she is standing in his way of finding a full time partner? Sure, you can both learn to be satisfied with half a partner....but is that what is best for either of you?

[vodkafan]

When she says she's good at relationships....do you think what she means is that she gets the most reward from relationships? Meaning that, the way other people derive a sense of satisfaction and achievement from career, or competitive sports, or material things--she gets that from relationships? I can definitely relate that, if that is what she means.

 

If that is the case, I can see how she would be in a very bad place when your relationship soured, and was vulnerable when a happy, enjoyable relationship bloomed with the other guy. That doesn't excuse her emotional affair, but I could understand how she got there.

 

Also, to be honest, this guy sounds kind of pathetic (crying???). I wonder if she is a rescuer, and found a wounded bird to nurture. I wonder if that is part of the "selfless" assessment: because she feels she is doing this for him, because he somehow needs her. She loves him and wants to care for him, be a companion for him, give him some joy in life.

 

Here is the part that defies logic for me: if she says she loves you both, she should want the BEST for both of you. And the best for both of you is a full partner (that is what you've stated you want....and I'm betting it is what the other guy wants. The guy was crying, for goodness sake.) If she really loves him, why can't she see that she is standing in his way of finding a full time partner? Sure, you can both learn to be satisfied with half a partner....but is that what is best for either of you?

 

XXOO, I like you. You are indeed very perceptive. I think yes your first two paragraphs are spot on. That is a completely accurate description of what she meant. Of course her idea of being "good at relationships" and an outsider's view are completely different. And the third paragraph is pretty true too; although I don't know him that well there is definitely an element of the OM being a "wounded bird". His ex wife messed him up pretty good.

 

I don't know where for sure this is going to go. Our attachment is not in doubt; it has got stronger. So whatever people on here think, I feel I did the right thing by sticking around and not walking away or giving her an ultimatum. The future will depend on how strong her attachment is to the OM.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

XXOO, I like you. You are indeed very perceptive. I think yes your first two paragraphs are spot on. That is a completely accurate description of what she meant. Of course her idea of being "good at relationships" and an outsider's view are completely different. And the third paragraph is pretty true too; although I don't know him that well there is definitely an element of the OM being a "wounded bird". His ex wife messed him up pretty good.

 

I don't know where for sure this is going to go. Our attachment is not in doubt; it has got stronger. So whatever people on here think, I feel I did the right thing by sticking around and not walking away or giving her an ultimatum. The future will depend on how strong her attachment is to the OM.

 

Not answering questions at all and defending your wayward "nut job" wife, who has not only abandoned her family 3 days a week, but has lost her job too in the meantime to forge a relationship with this OM..... And you grow more and more accepting each day......

 

In fact you're applauding her decision and claiming how wonderful things are..... I also noticed you have barely answered a single question I have asked about the children and sex.....

[WalkingOnEggs]

Not answering questions at all and defending your wayward "nut job" wife, who has not only abandoned her family 3 days a week, but has lost her job too in the meantime to forge a relationship with this OM..... And you grow more and more accepting each day......

 

In fact you're applauding her decision and claiming how wonderful things are..... I also noticed you have barely answered a single question I have asked about the children and sex.....

He only answers the softballs. Can't say I blame him.

[WalkingOnEggs]

It's not complex at all. It's really very simple.

 

If you did like most men would and told her she has 2 chioces - it's either she drops the other turkey and forgets his number or you walk. No polyamorous crap. You or him. Period.

 

Are you saying she would drop this guy or not?

 

Your answer was that she would pretend to drop him but would cheat. So the answer sounds like a big fat no to me.

I agree. She did come back and beg. I can appreciate that she does love VF. But it sounds like if a hard ultimatum was made, he himself knows that she would choose to keep the relationship with the other guy even if it means losing VF (even if that make her sad).

[TaraMaiden]

People who are so vocal and dead set against this, forget one thing: This is the way some relationships are going to go. I would bet there are several situations exactly the same as this one.

Why do I think this?

because the divorce rate is steadily climbing, the majority of marriages fail because of infidelity, and marriage as a conventional institution will gradually become unsustainable.

 

Everybody's opinions (those who seek to criticise and condemn this) are speaking from a seat of conditioned conventional upbringing.

VF is speaking from a seat of Natural evolutionary choice.

 

The arrangement he and his wife have, is far more natural and normal than something which seeks to bind us to one person, one person only, one person at a time only and one person at a time for a long-term period only.

 

This is the norm, this is what we have been educated to believe is normal, right and proper.

 

Simply because convention dictates that this is so - doesn't make it so.

Really, rather than immediately jump on the guy's back and seek to undermine everything that is happening in his relationship - why not take a step back and see the flaws in your ('Your' generic, not 'your' specific) own relationship arrangements.... for 98% of the relationships that have broken down, someone else was involved. Convention dictated that it was either you or the other person, and the other person won out.

 

Just stop to consider for yourselves for a moment, how it would have been if you could have persuaded your ex- to enter into an arrangement like the one being discussed here.

What would stop you doing that?

Why?

Fidelity and monogamy amongst mammals is almost non-existent, and humans as mammals are definitely NOT naturally monogamous. Most mammals have more than one partner, and these 'partnerships' run concurrently, not consecutively.

 

So why do we adopt this absolutely "heels-dug-in" resistance to something which actually, should come absolutely naturally?

 

Disgust? Distaste?

Just ask yourselves for a moment, if you'd care to do so, just what the resistance is, and where it's seated.

 

I really mean it. Examine it logically for a moment. It takes an open mind to broaden horizons, not one resolutely snapped shut like a gin-trap.....

[Distant78]

Here we go again.....

[WalkingOnEggs]

If VF had been seeking this kind of arrangement from the start with his wife, I'm pretty sure this thread would have died a long time ago. I think most people here are pretty much live and let live. To each his own. What people do behind closed doors and all that.

 

This is not about condemning a lifestyle. The best analogy is if a couple were both into S&M. Nobody would really care, even if they themselves could never imagine getting urinated on. But if one partner was against it, and was told that the relationship would end unless they let themselves be beaten and abused .. THEN I'm pretty sure the outrage would start. And it would have nothing to do with a judgement of the S&M lifestyle.

 

I think what bothers me is that VF was in a conventional relationship with his wife to begin with for a long time. They didn't sit down and decide they would both like to try this lifestyle, instead he found that his wife was having an affair with another guy.

 

VF feels like he was left with no other choice besides losing his wife or accepting to share her with a stranger. I realize that some people call this a poly relationship, and that's how VF seems to rationalize it. But in reality his wife is simply cheating on him with his consent. He did not go into this freely. I get the feeling from the threads that he's extremely fearful of 'losing her love' as he put its. I think she used that to bend him to her desires, which happens to be banging her OM.

 

VF mentions how he would agonize on their off days, how he would never have this happen again if her and the OM don't work out, etc.

 

For all those reasons, I strongly suspect that VF's wife bullied him into this and THAT is what is upsetting to me.

 

I know he tries to put happy face to this whole thing, but I don't buy that a guy can go from finding his wife is in love with another to being OK with sharing her half the week in a matter of a few weeks. VF might have a phenomenal capacity to adapt and survive through rationalization and denial, but I believe he's a victim.

 

People who are so vocal and dead set against this, forget one thing: This is the way some relationships are going to go. I would bet there are several situations exactly the same as this one.

Why do I think this?

because the divorce rate is steadily climbing, the majority of marriages fail because of infidelity, and marriage as a conventional institution will gradually become unsustainable.

 

Everybody's opinions (those who seek to criticise and condemn this) are speaking from a seat of conditioned conventional upbringing.

VF is speaking from a seat of Natural evolutionary choice.

 

The arrangement he and his wife have, is far more natural and normal than something which seeks to bind us to one person, one person only, one person at a time only and one person at a time for a long-term period only.

 

This is the norm, this is what we have been educated to believe is normal, right and proper.

 

Simply because convention dictates that this is so - doesn't make it so.

Really, rather than immediately jump on the guy's back and seek to undermine everything that is happening in his relationship - why not take a step back and see the flaws in your ('Your' generic, not 'your' specific) own relationship arrangements.... for 98% of the relationships that have broken down, someone else was involved. Convention dictated that it was either you or the other person, and the other person won out.

 

Just stop to consider for yourselves for a moment, how it would have been if you could have persuaded your ex- to enter into an arrangement like the one being discussed here.

What would stop you doing that?

Why?

Fidelity and monogamy amongst mammals is almost non-existent, and humans as mammals are definitely NOT naturally monogamous. Most mammals have more than one partner, and these 'partnerships' run concurrently, not consecutively.

 

So why do we adopt this absolutely "heels-dug-in" resistance to something which actually, should come absolutely naturally?

 

Disgust? Distaste?

Just ask yourselves for a moment, if you'd care to do so, just what the resistance is, and where it's seated.

 

I really mean it. Examine it logically for a moment. It takes an open mind to broaden horizons, not one resolutely snapped shut like a gin-trap.....

[TaraMaiden]

Here we go again.....

Denial, projecting, changing the subject, prevarication...

It's ok, I understand.

 

If VF had been seeking this kind of arrangement from the start with his wife, I'm pretty sure this thread would have died a long time ago. I think most people here are pretty much live and let live. To each his own. What people do behind closed doors and all that.

I'm sorry, you could have fooled me....

 

This is not about condemning a lifestyle. The best analogy is if a couple were both into S&M. Nobody would really care, even if they themselves could never imagine getting urinated on. But if one partner was against it, and was told that the relationship would end unless they let themselves be beaten and abused .. THEN I'm pretty sure the outrage would start. And it would have nothing to do with a judgement of the S&M lifestyle.

 

I think what bothers me is that VF was in a conventional relationship with his wife to begin with for a long time. They didn't sit down and decide they would both like to try this lifestyle, instead he found that his wife was having an affair with another guy.

 

VF feels like he was left with no other choice besides losing his wife or accepting to share her with a stranger. I realize that some people call this a poly relationship, and that's how VF seems to rationalize it. But in reality his wife is simply cheating on him with his consent. He did not go into this freely. I get the feeling from the threads that he's extremely fearful of 'losing her love' as he put its. I think she used that to bend him to her desires, which happens to be banging her OM.

 

VF mentions how he would agonize on their off days, how he would never have this happen again if her and the OM don't work out, etc.

 

For all those reasons, I strongly suspect that VF's wife bullied him into this and THAT is what is upsetting to me.

 

I know he tries to put happy face to this whole thing, but I don't buy that a guy can go from finding his wife is in love with another to being OK with sharing her half the week in a matter of a few weeks. VF might have a phenomenal capacity to adapt and survive through rationalization and denial, but I believe he's a victim.

By rationalising and making suppositions, you're basically making assumptions that you have no idea are true or not. You believe, you suspect, you assume.

 

And - You're voiding the question.

I'm not asking you about VF's situation at all.

I'm asking you about what you would have done and dealt with things had this been an option in your situation.

 

There is no question that there has had to be some adaptation of principles here. But in every new and undiscovered or unexplored option, you're going to find that going against everything you previously held to be the only possibility, is going to take adapting to, flexibility and open-mindedness.

 

I guess men had to change their ideas when faced with emancipation.... it went against every principle, every rule, every law and every regulation they had hitherto created and adhered to. Hell, some men and societies are still dead-set against it. And they're not exactly popular, are they?

 

You're right. I think VF DOES have the phenomenal capacity to adapt and survive.

 

Isn't that what they say Nature is about ? Evolve, adapt or die?

 

That's what I'm talking about.

I don't think in a few years' time what VF is doing will be seen as extraordinary. I think what we classify as convention, currently, will be.

[thrownaway]

WELL SAID!!!

 

 

If VF had been seeking this kind of arrangement from the start with his wife, I'm pretty sure this thread would have died a long time ago. I think most people here are pretty much live and let live. To each his own. What people do behind closed doors and all that.

 

This is not about condemning a lifestyle. The best analogy is if a couple were both into S&M. Nobody would really care, even if they themselves could never imagine getting urinated on. But if one partner was against it, and was told that the relationship would end unless they let themselves be beaten and abused .. THEN I'm pretty sure the outrage would start. And it would have nothing to do with a judgement of the S&M lifestyle.

 

I think what bothers me is that VF was in a conventional relationship with his wife to begin with for a long time. They didn't sit down and decide they would both like to try this lifestyle, instead he found that his wife was having an affair with another guy.

 

VF feels like he was left with no other choice besides losing his wife or accepting to share her with a stranger. I realize that some people call this a poly relationship, and that's how VF seems to rationalize it. But in reality his wife is simply cheating on him with his consent. He did not go into this freely. I get the feeling from the threads that he's extremely fearful of 'losing her love' as he put its. I think she used that to bend him to her desires, which happens to be banging her OM.

 

VF mentions how he would agonize on their off days, how he would never have this happen again if her and the OM don't work out, etc.

 

For all those reasons, I strongly suspect that VF's wife bullied him into this and THAT is what is upsetting to me.

 

I know he tries to put happy face to this whole thing, but I don't buy that a guy can go from finding his wife is in love with another to being OK with sharing her half the week in a matter of a few weeks. VF might have a phenomenal capacity to adapt and survive through rationalization and denial, but I believe he's a victim.

[WalkingOnEggs]

We both can only assume and make suppositions. I'm only trying to put myself in his shoes. Like I mentioned before, I did go through a similar situation with a girlfriend I was madly in love with.

 

In hindsight, I did what I did to keep her despite the pain I felt every weekday when she was with the other guy. Maybe if I knew about polyamory I could have convinced myself to feel better.

 

Bu the fact is, looking back on it now. I realize I was coerced. I resent myself for letting it happen and I resent her for not giving a crap about how it made me feel.

 

Again, VF did not choose this lifestyle. He had a gun to his head when he was asked to choose, knowing his wife would see the OM regardless of his answer.

 

..

By rationalising and making suppositions, you're basically making assumptions that you have no idea are true or not. You believe, you suspect, you assume.

 

And - You're voiding the question.

I'm not asking you about VF's situation at all.

I'm asking you about what you would have done and dealt with things had this been an option in your situation.

[TaraMaiden]

We both can only assume and make suppositions. I'm only trying to put myself in his shoes.

But don't you see? You're not, not at all.

 

You are making assumptions about his situation, based on your own perceptions, feelings and experiences. You don't need to assume, or make suppositions. you only need to accept that what he's telling us is the truth for him, as he sees it, in this moment.

Before this all evolved, he was devastated. Now, he tells us he feels justified and content. if he has shown remarkable adaptability, why try to read things into there that aren't there, save because of your own assumptions?

 

Like I mentioned before, I did go through a similar situation with a girlfriend I was madly in love with.

In hindsight, I did what I did to keep her despite the pain I felt every weekday when she was with the other guy. Maybe if I knew about polyamory I could have convinced myself to feel better.

That's my point. Had you known an alternative WAS possible, that it wasn't simply or merely a case of 'make or break', you might have tried the third option. Granted it would have been novel, unusual, against the grain, difficult, fraught with obstacles. A lot of conventional relationships are much of that, anyway. But at least you would have been looking at it from a feasibly workable perspective.... new, untried, but not unthinkable or impossible.

 

Bu the fact is, looking back on it now. I realize I was coerced. I resent myself for letting it happen and I resent her for not giving a crap about how it made me feel.

knowing her as you do, is there any chance at all you could have proposed she accept you both? How do you thing SHE would have dealt with it?

 

Again, VF did not choose this lifestyle. He had a gun to his head when he was asked to choose, knowing his wife would see the OM regardless of his answer.

Sure he chose this lifestyle, of course he did!

 

He had the conventional choice. Give her an ultimatum, and thereby risking losing a great deal, or go this way and actually risk losing a lot less. But he DID choose his lifestyle, you can bet your bottom dollar he did. he had this choice, and he took this option.

 

There is pressure in whichever choice we make, but that he took this one, is frankly, such a bold step into unexplored territory that everyone here is dismissing it as unworkable.

But look.

It's working.

And has done so since mid-July. What's more, it appears to have evolved, and improved some things.

so what's to criticise?

Edited August 28, 2010 by TaraMaiden

[WalkingOnEggs]

Well hey, if nothing else, wayward spouses now have another trump card to play. An alternate explanation for their behavior. They're not cheaters, they're "polyamorous". The husbands aren't cuckolds, they're "monos". And if the betrayed spouses object, well then they can either get enlightened and get with the times or they can leave.

 

Sounds good.

Edited August 28, 2010 by WalkingOnEggs

[TaraMaiden]

Well hey, if nothing else, wayward spouses now have another trump card to play. An alternate explanation for their behavior. They're not cheaters, they're "polyamorous". The husbands aren't cuckolds, they're "monos". And if the betrayed spouses object, well then they can either get enlightened and get with the times or they can leave.

 

Sounds good.

well I'm so sorry, but I really didn't expect such an unintelligent reply.

You are completely avoiding the discussion we began, and you're not addressing the question I posed.

Does it really make you feel so uncomfortable to consider that there are alternative behaviours beyond the conventional?

I really thought you were more open to having a level discussion on the questions I posed.

 

if you're this closed-minded to broadening your horizons, and can therefore only see matters from your PoV, then you actually, with the greatest of respect, you really are not in any way entitled to make comment on the OP's situation, because he has seen fit to attempt a relationship with his wife taking all things into consideration.

He really has been broad-minded and awake and aware enough to think outside the box.

You seen to have confined yourself to one-stream thinking, and have kept the lid firmly shut. Which means you insist on looking at this from only one single perspective.

Yours.

And at the end of the day, in discussing an issue that has so many facets to it, that kind of view cannot be anything but biased, prejudiced and blinkered.

Which is no view at all, really.

Truly, sincerely - no word of a lie - I really thought you were more flexible than that.

[WalkingOnEggs]

The only way such an arrangement would work for me is if I didn't really love the other woman and I was also having other partners on the side.

 

I have no discomfort whatsoever about others for whom the poly thing works out. I really don't care one way or the other. VF's situation with my wife would be an absolute non-starter. If she didn't want to give up the other guy, then I'd be gone.

 

I am uncomfortable with a partner who did commit to being monogamous and who led the other to commit to that as well to then pull the rug out and force the poly situation on the unwilling partner. I think this is what happened to VF.

 

Again, just to be clear, I don't see that VF was given any good choices here. The honest choice would have been for her to offer to give up pursuing the other guy as one of the alternatives. THEN if he chose his lifestyle, at least it would have been with some measure of freedom. Instead his choices were limited to her sleeping with the other guy with VF in the picture or sleeping with the guy without VF in the picture. Either way he's sleeping with the guy. She did this with no regard or concern for VF's happiness nor his feelings.

 

I know you think leaving his wife was a choice he could have made. But for him, that situation is too painful. To him, his wife's love is the most important thing in the world to him. He instead chose what he thought would be a less painful solution which is to share her with a stranger. I know VF says it's all working. But I'm pretty sure that if his wife and the OM broke up, VF would not be the least bit unhappy about it and he would not be encouraging her to find another guy.

 

I don't think he's broad-minded as much as he's resilient. He's trying his damnest to keep the marriage and family together. He has made a huge compromise to do so. Probably a bigger compromise than most men would be willing to make.

 

Again, I've been there. I tried to make that work not because I enjoyed the lifestyle, but because I was too afraid to lose her.

 

I'm in no way condemning VF for his choice. But I do feel bad for him for having had to make this compromise to keep his wife's love.

 

Tara, I hope you don't think that there aren't people out there who prefer and are happy with being monogamous. I hope you also can keep an open mind and realize that this poly thing is not for everyone. Not choosing to embrace that lifestyle does not make one a bigot.

 

well I'm so sorry, but I really didn't expect such an unintelligent reply.

You are completely avoiding the discussion we began, and you're not addressing the question I posed.

Does it really make you feel so uncomfortable to consider that there are alternative behaviours beyond the conventional?

I really thought you were more open to having a level discussion on the questions I posed.

 

if you're this closed-minded to broadening your horizons, and can therefore only see matters from your PoV, then you actually, with the greatest of respect, you really are not in any way entitled to make comment on the OP's situation, because he has seen fit to attempt a relationship with his wife taking all things into consideration.

He really has been broad-minded and awake and aware enough to think outside the box.

You seen to have confined yourself to one-stream thinking, and have kept the lid firmly shut. Which means you insist on looking at this from only one single perspective.

Yours.

And at the end of the day, in discussing an issue that has so many facets to it, that kind of view cannot be anything but biased, prejudiced and blinkered.

Which is no view at all, really.

Truly, sincerely - no word of a lie - I really thought you were more flexible than that.

[TaraMaiden]

The only way such an arrangement would work for me is if I didn't really love the other woman and I was also having other partners on the side.

This is the problem with viewing things on solely an emotional front. If we permit our emotions and conditioning to be unique yardsticks, we are condemning ourselves to living in a way that is largely illogical.

 

I have no discomfort whatsoever about others for whom the poly thing works out. I really don't care one way or the other. VF's situation with my wife would be an absolute non-starter. If she didn't want to give up the other guy, then I'd be gone.

WHY?? This is the question you need to probe more deeply with. Why exactly? because of Love? jealously? Possessiveness?

 

I am uncomfortable with a partner who did commit to being monogamous and who led the other to commit to that as well to then pull the rug out and force the poly situation on the unwilling partner. I think this is what happened to VF.

No. Bear in mind he wasn't forced to make this decision. he DID HAVE other options. He could well have told her in no uncertain terms that it really was ultimately a choice between him and the OM. This is precisely why so many marriages fail outright. Because of this ultimatum.

 

Again, just to be clear, I don't see that VF was given any good choices here. The honest choice would have been for her to offer to give up pursuing the other guy as one of the alternatives.

But - given the unnatural state of Monogamy that we have socially and culturally conditioned ourselves to accept - why should she? Because of convention? because of promises? I think we should none of us be made, or be expected to make unrealistic promises, promises we actually cannot realistically be expected to keep.

 

THEN if he chose his lifestyle, at least it would have been with some measure of freedom. Instead his choices were limited to her sleeping with the other guy with VF in the picture or sleeping with the guy without VF in the picture. Either way he's sleeping with the guy. She did this with no regard or concern for VF's happiness nor his feelings.

Look, remember this is a choice the OM has had to play into as well. Given that he has no legal obligation or commitment - what do you think is keeping HIM in this arrangement? Would you not expect him to have said "Sorry guys, this is just too weird for me to buy into. I don't know what the game-plan is here, but - I'm out."

Nope. look at that. He's still in this as well. Now, given your insistence that this is all forced and against VF's will, don't you think that's somewhat bizarre?

 

I know you think leaving his wife was a choice he could have made. But for him, that situation is too painful. To him, his wife's love is the most important thing in the world to him. He instead chose what he thought would be a less painful solution which is to share her with a stranger.

Remember though that there were other considerations, such as familial ties. He took this decision, taking all factor into account,. And that decision may well have been rooted in some emotion, but it was also a logical one.

 

I know VF says it's all working. But I'm pretty sure that if his wife and the OM broke up, VF would not be the least bit unhappy about it and he would not be encouraging her to find another guy.

Very possibly. But he wouldn't close his mind to the possibility, either. he might be more open to expecting it - and accepting it.

I will say at this point, that I personally believe he should leave himself open to the same conditions.

 

I don't think he's broad-minded as much as he's resilient. He's trying his damnest to keep the marriage and family together. He has made a huge compromise to do so. Probably a bigger compromise than most men would be willing to make.

And you see, in whichever fashion you wish to define it - it's working. it's a compromise he's decided to make and fortunately, it's paying off. Don't get me wrong, there is still time for something to slip its cog, and still ample opportunity for other issues to complicate matters. But there are always going to be.... in any scenario where there are three people participating....

 

Again, I've been there. I tried to make that work not because I enjoyed the lifestyle, but because I was too afraid to lose her.

When you try on your own, it's never going to work. All participants have to be willing to give it their best shot. Did your ex cooperate or try as hard as you did?

 

I'm in no way condemning VF for his choice. But I do feel bad for him for having had to make this compromise to keep his wife's love.

It's because he's made this compromise that his wife's love was more guaranteed....Put it this way, he would rather live her way in her world, than live without her, in his. Seems like the opportunity wasn't an open door, but an open dare. And he dared. And it seems to be paying off.

 

Tara, I hope you don't think that there aren't people out there who prefer and are happy with being monogamous

.

No, I see that. My point is why? And my point is that it's through diligent conditioning and influence. monogamous they may be through choice, and trust me, I do respect that. My partner is of that ilk. But it's not entirely natural.

 

I hope you also can keep an open mind and realize that this poly thing is not for everyone. Not choosing to embrace that lifestyle does not make one a bigot.

No, but it's self-limiting. And the limitations are the ones we place on ourselves.

 

My point is that people who have resolutely decided that monogamy is the only way to go, cannot possibly comment, unless they have had previous experience at attempting a liaison of this nature, themselves.

In brief, "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it."

VF is getting biased and one-sided opinions, from those who refuse to budge from their stance of limited options.

While people choose to limit their own options, for the pure and simple reason that frankly, they wouldn't do it - then they're in no place to comment, because of a lack of experience. D'you see what I mean?

[Distant78]

Denial, projecting, changing the subject, prevarication...

It's ok, I understand.

 

Denial, jockriding, two-facing, covering, BSing, I understand.

[kuma]

People who are so vocal and dead set against this, forget one thing: This is the way some relationships are going to go. I would bet there are several situations exactly the same as this one.

Why do I think this?

because the divorce rate is steadily climbing, the majority of marriages fail because of infidelity, and marriage as a conventional institution will gradually become unsustainable.

 

Everybody's opinions (those who seek to criticise and condemn this) are speaking from a seat of conditioned conventional upbringing.

VF is speaking from a seat of Natural evolutionary choice.

 

The arrangement he and his wife have, is far more natural and normal than something which seeks to bind us to one person, one person only, one person at a time only and one person at a time for a long-term period only.

 

This is the norm, this is what we have been educated to believe is normal, right and proper.

 

Simply because convention dictates that this is so - doesn't make it so.

Really, rather than immediately jump on the guy's back and seek to undermine everything that is happening in his relationship - why not take a step back and see the flaws in your ('Your' generic, not 'your' specific) own relationship arrangements.... for 98% of the relationships that have broken down, someone else was involved. Convention dictated that it was either you or the other person, and the other person won out.

 

Just stop to consider for yourselves for a moment, how it would have been if you could have persuaded your ex- to enter into an arrangement like the one being discussed here.

What would stop you doing that?

Why?

Fidelity and monogamy amongst mammals is almost non-existent, and humans as mammals are definitely NOT naturally monogamous. Most mammals have more than one partner, and these 'partnerships' run concurrently, not consecutively.

 

So why do we adopt this absolutely "heels-dug-in" resistance to something which actually, should come absolutely naturally?

 

Disgust? Distaste?

Just ask yourselves for a moment, if you'd care to do so, just what the resistance is, and where it's seated.

 

I really mean it. Examine it logically for a moment. It takes an open mind to broaden horizons, not one resolutely snapped shut like a gin-trap.....

 

But he doesn't want to share his wife with other men. He only agreed because he doesn't want to lose her. IMO, she justifies her selfish actions by saying "I can love two people and give them what they need."

[WalkingOnEggs]

Hey if VF is happier now with his marriage than before the OM showed up, then great. Good for him. Somehow I'd be surprised if he is.

Edited August 28, 2010 by WalkingOnEggs

[TaraMaiden]

Denial, jockriding, two-facing, covering, BSing, I understand.

How very eloquent you are. goodness, that's one argument I really have absolutely no way of handling, got me there.

 

If that's the best you can do, then it says little for your prowess in the communication stakes really, doesn't it? It seems you're not as big in that department as I gave you credit for, which is a shame. I was looking forward to a better quality of discussion with you. As it stands, I think that, if you have been following my posts, (and would care to address the points therein) it probably leaves you less and less room for manoeuvre.

 

Hey if VF is happier now with his marriage than before the OM showed up, then great. Good for him. Somehow I'd be surprised if he is.

I'm sure you would be. In fact, he states in several posts that he and his wife are getting on better than ever.

Another factor you're dismissing, simply because such a premise is a complete anathema to you....

[WalkingOnEggs]

I'm sure you would be. In fact, he states in several posts that he and his wife are getting on better than ever.

Another factor you're dismissing, simply because such a premise is a complete anathema to you....

 

No really, I'm sure he's very thankful that OM showed up. I'm sure he has a big ole happy face on his calendar when it the OM's day.

[TaraMaiden]

Put it this way, he's ok with it, he hasn't prevented it, and he has 4 days. Things seem to be working out ok.

Why are you falling back - yet again! - on assumptions and making unfounded remarks which are purely based on your perception of a situation you have already been told is something that is working?