unconventional relationship

[WalkingOnEggs]

Put it this way, he's ok with it, he hasn't prevented it, and he has 4 days. Things seem to be working out ok.

Why are you falling back - yet again! - on assumptions and making unfounded remarks which are purely based on your perception of a situation you have already been told is something that is working?

No, I agree with you. He hasn't prevented it. That's the key. That means he wants it this way.

Edited August 28, 2010 by WalkingOnEggs

[Toodamnpragmatic]

in terms of them getting along better, because VF's wife is in the honeymoon stage and wanting to prove to all that this is such a great situation..... It's been 6 weeks now...... Give it some time.

 

Also as I keep asking and it gets dismissed..... What about the kids, sex and the fact she got fired because she couldn't handle two "husbands" a family and a job.......

 

Yep, call me old fashioned...... Really it would be much simpler if she just cheated on him a few hours a week and then decided who to choose as this weepy, emotional OM wanted her fulltime......

[TaraMaiden]

in terms of them getting along better, because VF's wife is in the honeymoon stage and wanting to prove to all that this is such a great situation..... It's been 6 weeks now...... Give it some time.

Here I am in agreement. Every relationship, and every dynamic has a 'honeymoon' stage. You're right. And it has only been 6 weeks. And in those six weeks, it would appear, from what VF tells us, that his relationship with his wife has in point of fact, improved. So while I agree that nothing ever stays the same, and things alter, evolve, change and whatnot, I think it fair to keep an open mind and determine that "figures may go up as well as down".....

 

Also as I keep asking and it gets dismissed..... What about the kids,

I'll be honest, I think he's keeping the kids out of this discussion, with good reason. They're young and becoming accustomed to this arrangement. it must in all honesty be somewhat bewildering to them in many ways, so I think it's a respect for privacy that shouldn't be questioned. he has touched upon their reactions, and I think that was fair....

 

sex

 

Why is the 'sex' aprt so impoetant to you?

Why should ut matter?

it's actually no business of ours how they work this aspect of the relationship out, and again, I think VF has indeed spoken about this aspect. I doubt (as with any conventional relationship) that sex is always uppermost on everybody's mind all the time.... what's your deal with this....?

 

and the fact she got fired because she couldn't handle two "husbands" a family and a job.......

The more acceptable this kind of relationship eventually becomes (and I do believe it's a new dynamic that will become more usual in time) the less difficult such matters will be to negotiate. people job share all the time.... we give our kids to childminders, and we have interchangeable household duties we share....why not consider sharing in other areas of life?

 

Yep, call me old fashioned...... Really it would be much simpler if she just cheated on him a few hours a week and then decided who to choose as this weepy, emotional OM wanted her fulltime......

Why would lying, deceit, hurting somebody, practising subterfuge and weaving a tangled web, be simpler?

 

And you know, men get emotional too. Plenty of guys who were cheated on and mistreated by their women, have come on here and admitted weeping.

Why is that a deplorable trait to you?

have you never wept?

[kuma]

Honey, trust me, if men don't wanna do something, they ain't gonna do it, and if they want to do something, they will. They have brains between their ears and a longjock down their pants.

This is basically what guys are led by. Minds and dicks.

if the OP really, really didn't want to be here, then he would have found any which way possible to be somewhere else. Instead, he's picked a solution which seems to give him the advantages of a woman when he wants her, but he shares the PMT, mood swings and menopausal symptoms.

That's better in many ways than having to deal with a woman who has all that AND gives you a bad time for not being able to ball the way she wants. I hear folks saying he's missing out. I figure he's got some things going his way, okay....

 

I suppose it's true for some men.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

e've discussed at length how men used to be the providers and women the nurturers and as women entered the workforce and the corporate ladder how the dynamics have changed.

 

But in this situation and most monogamous relationships, one thinks sex is a priority or should be. All the crap I go through and share with my spouse, frankly I could share too over lunches with friends. It is the one on one emotional connection and sex that makes me feel alive......

 

So the question is why is VF's wife in this relationship, when things are so good at home and maybe all she needed was a day or two to herself to be selfish and enjoy "me" time. No she chose to be with another man.

 

What does he expect from her that is worth sharing so bad, that he weeps when she leaves????

 

VF right now is accepting it, because things are good between them and great in the bedroom......

 

Taramaiden you seem to dismiss the children way too simply and the fact that this other relationship got her fired......

 

And ask any male here who has complained about an infrequent sex life, how happy they'd be and things they'd accomplish and do for their spouses if they had sex 2X's/wk (just throwing out a #).......

 

I stayed off this thread for the first 5 weeks, because I found it so preposterous..... I'll tell you right now the only reason VF is accepting this relationship is because he is getting so much sex....... Let me tell you a secret...... If my spouse told me how much she loved me but couldn't live with me 3 days/wk and was moving across the street and not a hope in hell she was with another man, and for that freedom I'd get more sex then I can handle (and very enjoyable for both parties), I'd probably agree to it as long as we shared the children........ Please guys, back me up on this.......

Edited August 28, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[xxoo]

Let me tell you a secret...... If my spouse told me how much she loved me but couldn't live with me 3 days/wk and was moving across the street and not a hope in hell she was with another man, and for that freedom I'd get more sex then I can handle (and very enjoyable for both parties), I'd probably agree to it as long as we shared the children........ Please guys, back me up on this.......

 

 

H says I'd have to take the kids

 

The kid issue IS a big issue in this arrangement. But, if the VF's wife is unable to deal with the kids 7 days a week due to mental health issues, I can understand making time for her to get away (although, I agree, it needn't be with another man!).

 

Still, the main issue is the depression and boredom. Having this guy isn't going to fix those issues. Eventually, she'll need to address it directly. Personally, I believe she will eventually regret her choice to seek another man, rather than fixing what needs to be fixed and healing herself for her kids. Kids grow so fast, and she'll never get this time back.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

 

H says I'd have to take the kids

 

The kid issue IS a big issue in this arrangement. But, if the VF's wife is unable to deal with the kids 7 days a week due to mental health issues, I can understand making time for her to get away (although, I agree, it needn't be with another man!).

 

Still, the main issue is the depression and boredom. Having this guy isn't going to fix those issues. Eventually, she'll need to address it directly. Personally, I believe she will eventually regret her choice to seek another man, rather than fixing what needs to be fixed and healing herself for her kids. Kids grow so fast, and she'll never get this time back.

 

But I take it your H backs me 100%.... You are way too thoughtful on this thread and most threads..... Don't you ever feel figuratively like grabbing a poster by the neck and shaking some sense into him/her????

[Distant78]

How very eloquent you are. goodness, that's one argument I really have absolutely no way of handling, got me there.

 

Yes, true. I'm glad I caught you with my net.

 

If that's the best you can do, then it says little for your prowess in the communication stakes really, doesn't it? It seems you're not as big in that department as I gave you credit for, which is a shame.

 

 

This shows how easily someone who changes their position every 24 minutes can be boxed in. First you say monogamy works for many, it doesn't work for many, then you say sleeping with someone outside of a relationship can solve all of the s**t in the world. It seems you're the one who's not as big in that department than what I gave you credit for, which is a shame for how easily a person decides if they can't beat the masses, then they'll join them. :sick:Tsk. It gets me wondering how you told a lady not long ago to divorce her husband, yet when OP is faced with a cheating wife, its "let her have sex with that well-endowed man for three days and the kids will love it!":lmao:Some will never grab the confidence to move their legs even if they had two people lifting up their arms. So depressing and even humorous to the perfect cap.

 

I was looking forward to a better quality of discussion with you. As it stands, I think that, if you have been following my posts, (and would care to address the points therein) it probably leaves you less and less room for manoeuvre.

 

You were looking to discuss with me? :lmao: How childish. I could hardly say the same for one who writes story-long paragraphs as to why they've decided to go back to defending the OP after happily expressing doubt on the "everybody loves it" arrangement (which they wholeheartedly assumed themselves), and responds harshly to those who don't take your stance. Reading your posts gives me much mobility instead of congestion. To agree that sleeping with others, while raising the risk that the wanderer may leave for the OM/OW truely shines on your lack of persistence and creativity to evaluate difficult situations without resorting to the Tunnel of Orgies. But you are right, debating with you leaves me with less and less motivation to even reply to one who stares at the clouds for seven days before deciding to take the test.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

To agree that sleeping with others, while raising the risk that the wanderer may leave for the OM/OW truely shines on your lack of persistence and creativity to evaluate difficult situations without resorting to the Tunnel of Orgies. But you are right, debating with you leaves me with less and less motivation to even reply to one who stares at the clouds for seven days before deciding to take the test.

 

Reading this thread tells me how much simpler swinging is then polyamorous relationships...... There you only worry that someone is better at sex then you (while you are having sex with someone else)..... Here it is so much more then just the sex.... Though sex may be the tipping point.....

[xxoo]

But I take it your H backs me 100%....

 

I can't say he agrees 100%, but I know he certainly wouldn't agree with VF's chosen course.

 

You are way too thoughtful on this thread and most threads..... Don't you ever feel figuratively like grabbing a poster by the neck and shaking some sense into him/her????

 

Oh, yes! But you know--bees, honey, vinegar and all that

[Distant78]

Reading this thread tells me how much simpler swinging is then polyamorous relationships...... There you only worry that someone is better at sex then you (while you are having sex with someone else)..... Here it is so much more then just the sex.... Though sex may be the tipping point.....

 

;) Even though I don't do swinging/poly, you're right. Swinging is much simpler because in poly its mostly one person having the pleasure of two people (if they can at least get it from one).

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I can't say he agrees 100%, but I know he certainly wouldn't agree with VF's chosen course.

 

 

 

Oh, yes! But you know--bees, honey, vinegar and all that

 

approach.... Sometimes it doesn't work....

 

As for your husband, remember it is an ultimatum you'd be giving him..... As I said, I'd have to seriously think about it.....

[jenifer1972]

Vodkafan, I have been reading your thread from the beginning, and it is an interesting journey you are on.

 

I have a slightly different take. First, it doesn't matter to me what other people do in their relationships, as long as it doesn't impact on mine. I may have an opinion on it, but that is irrelevant. Whatever you want to do is not for me to judge.

 

I just have an observation:

 

I think you are working through the stages of grief right now. First SHOCK. Your marriage is upside down and totally changed. Your wife wants to change the contract. Then, to me it seemed like you moved into DENIAL. This is ok with me, really, we can work it out, I will set some rules you need to follow. This will be fine... Then, BARGAINING...working out the rules, and going back and forth with family, the other guy, the arguments. You then describe a brief stay at ANGER, but I think that is one stage that you will find yourself revisiting when you least expect it. Perhaps you will come to acceptance, but you may not. It is too soon to know, really.

 

Regarding your question about whether other women would like to try this: This is my vote. no, I wouldn't want to do this arrangement. When I am in love with someone, there is only him in my heart. When I am no longer in love with someone, the idea might be intriguing in theory, but not something I'd ever do.

[TinaniT]

Be careful. Just be careful. I do think poly relationships can work.

 

HOWEVER, I began a poly relationship (I mainly saw no one else, he did) after my ex husband cheated on me. I told myself it was okay. I told everyone else it was okay. I forced myself to accept it because it seemed the only choice.

 

The emotional scars I obtained will take a long time to recover from.

 

I don't think this about poly in general, but I am very hesitant of poly founded in deceipt and desperation.

 

Good luck.

[Scrivdog]

Vodkafan, I have been reading your thread from the beginning, and it is an interesting journey you are on.

 

I have a slightly different take. First, it doesn't matter to me what other people do in their relationships, as long as it doesn't impact on mine. I may have an opinion on it, but that is irrelevant. Whatever you want to do is not for me to judge.

 

I just have an observation:

 

I think you are working through the stages of grief right now. First SHOCK. Your marriage is upside down and totally changed. Your wife wants to change the contract. Then, to me it seemed like you moved into DENIAL. This is ok with me, really, we can work it out, I will set some rules you need to follow. This will be fine... Then, BARGAINING...working out the rules, and going back and forth with family, the other guy, the arguments. You then describe a brief stay at ANGER, but I think that is one stage that you will find yourself revisiting when you least expect it. Perhaps you will come to acceptance, but you may not. It is too soon to know, really.

 

Regarding your question about whether other women would like to try this: This is my vote. no, I wouldn't want to do this arrangement. When I am in love with someone, there is only him in my heart. When I am no longer in love with someone, the idea might be intriguing in theory, but not something I'd ever do.

 

I agree completely. There's pretty much no chance to going from finding out your wife is having an affair to being OK with it in 2 weeks. I think VF is putting off the thought that he lost his wife to another by agreeing to this bonehead arrangement.

[Distant78]

I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of his children had deep resentment for him because he succumbed to his W. He knows that we know he's obviously angry about it, and like someone said earlier, he might be revisiting that stage sooner than later. I just hope he pulls out before he loses his sanity.

[InceptorsRule]

To me one of the problems with vodka's "arrangement" is that the rules seem entirely arbitrary, i.e., unprincipled, and just imposed for expedience's sake. The Other Guy gets three days simply because VF is working those days. OK I get that but that's not a relationship founded on any kind of principle or theme. Also this whole notion of there having to be a complete separation between the two husbands in a supposedly "poly" relationship. It seems to me that if the two husbands in such a relationship are really OK with the triangularity of it, there'd be no reason to mandate what is for the most part "NC" between the two husbands. There's no reason for the two husbands to stay apart from each other other than perhaps to avoid confrontation. Again, it's expediency, not principle, which is at work.

 

What this boils down to is that, to the extent vodka's arrangement "works," it will only continue working until it stops working. And then what? "Stops working" can be anything. It can be vodka deciding he doesn't want to share anymore; or the other guy deciding that; or most likely, the wife simply deciding she wants to change things up yet again. What are these two guys going to do if the wife at some point she's looking for yet more excitement and finds guy No. 3? Nothing actually. She's established a "principle" if you want to call it that of getting to do whatever she wants. Vodka states that "he" was the one who imposed this set of constraints but if so it's a unstable compromise under stress, there's no stable equilibrium in the relationship described here.

 

That means any sort of disturbance won't naturally result in a new balance being achieved, it will more likely blow everything up.

[Scrivdog]

Looks like Vodka Fan hit the bottle again. Who wouldn't?

[TaraMaiden]

With the amount of unsolicited, unfounded and frankly presumptuous bashing he's getting, could you blame him?

[Distant78]

To me one of the problems with vodka's "arrangement" is that the rules seem entirely arbitrary, i.e., unprincipled, and just imposed for expedience's sake. The Other Guy gets three days simply because VF is working those days. OK I get that but that's not a relationship founded on any kind of principle or theme. Also this whole notion of there having to be a complete separation between the two husbands in a supposedly "poly" relationship. It seems to me that if the two husbands in such a relationship are really OK with the triangularity of it, there'd be no reason to mandate what is for the most part "NC" between the two husbands. There's no reason for the two husbands to stay apart from each other other than perhaps to avoid confrontation. Again, it's expediency, not principle, which is at work.

 

What this boils down to is that, to the extent vodka's arrangement "works," it will only continue working until it stops working. And then what? "Stops working" can be anything. It can be vodka deciding he doesn't want to share anymore; or the other guy deciding that; or most likely, the wife simply deciding she wants to change things up yet again. What are these two guys going to do if the wife at some point she's looking for yet more excitement and finds guy No. 3? Nothing actually. She's established a "principle" if you want to call it that of getting to do whatever she wants. Vodka states that "he" was the one who imposed this set of constraints but if so it's a unstable compromise under stress, there's no stable equilibrium in the relationship described here.

 

That means any sort of disturbance won't naturally result in a new balance being achieved, it will more likely blow everything up.

 

Exactly. This will not last long. If she wanted to sleep with others then she should've never took those vows or she should've divorced.

[Scrivdog]

At least he doesn't drive her over to the other guy's house .. you're not driving her there are you? Vodkafan? Vodkafan??

Edited September 1, 2010 by Scrivdog

[TaraMaiden]

What if he is?

And what if the other guy's driving her back?

What's your point?

 

I wish I really could understand just what it is about this set-up that you all find so objectionable.

VF has tried, time and again, to outline that in whichever way they've arranged this, it's working for them.

but folks is still coming in with the unfairness of it all, the impermanence, the subterfuge and hypocrisy...

But nobody who has objected has actually ever tried something like this and has any personal experience in such matters to be able to give objective and constructive advice.

All these objections stem from a position of prejudice and judgement, hypothesis and assumption.

 

For you guys, it couldn't possibly work, because it couldn't possibly work for you.

For you guys this is just a non-starter, because it's not anything any of you would ever start.

 

But why is it so difficult - nay, at times, impossible - for any of you to actually see this as a possibly successful venture and a working premise?

 

just because it's not for you, why pour cold water and pessimism on something that is obviously working for them?

Why presume it is doomed to failure, purely and simply because you're basing your assumptions on our own past?

Which, incidentally, is nothing like their present, in more ways than one?

 

What, about this arrangement, actually bothers you so much?

 

Anyone..?

[GorillaTheater]

What, about this arrangement, actually bothers you so much?

 

Anyone..?

 

I'll bite: the inequity of the situation. Yes, inequity is in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder would pack my wife's stuff up and leave it on the curb under similar circumstances. But it is, as they say, what it is. VF has made his choices and as difficult as it is for me fatham them, I accept them. It's his life, not mine.

 

But that still leaves the inequity. VF is getting a raw deal. His wife plays while he stays. So I think he should openly explore the world of other women. It'll be an eye-opener, I imagine.

 

But you're right, beating this guy up for his choices, at least this particular guy, isn't going to help. I hope he comes back.

[TaraMaiden]

Yeah, I get you on the 'Jill plays, so should Jack' bit....I completely agree.

For a relationship of this kind to really stand a hard-line test, I think this would be the litmus that shows whether it's a genuinely liberal and free-moving one, or not.....

[Distant78]

Fear is a great motivator. Poly. is never the answer to a broken relationship.