Love is not enough....

[kkat]

I'm still struggling to make a decision re: my affair with the MM in my life. I had an experience this week that made me realize a couple of things.

 

First, I realized how much he really does love me. I've never questioned that - not during the "good times" when he left his wife and we lived together for two years, and not even when he went back to his family. It wasn't about his lack of love for me, but he made a choice that losing his family, home, money, etc. and deserting his responsibilities to his wife and children wasn't worth it.

 

And, when I became re-involved with him about eight months ago, it was obvious he had never stopped loving me, but again, no matter how much he loves me - it's not enough to incent him to give up a complete other life of security... and it's not enough for me just to be loved.

 

Over the past few weeks, I've been dealing with a scare from a mammogram/lump, and the follow-up tests, in addition to the stresses of my business situation, an ill parent, etc. He's been unbelievably supportive through all of it, and during my medical appts. this week, even more so. And his actions have backed up his words, and I know he loves me.

 

But the other thing I've realized is that love is not enough. He can't give me support in the middle of the night - he's at home with his wife. He can't be there for me in the long run, because he is still with his wife/family.

 

Love is not enough, at the end of the day, when I go to sleep alone, or when I wake up alone. Love is not enough for him, obviously, and it's not enough for me.

 

Still struggling...

[Fancy]

Originally posted by kkat

Love is not enough, at the end of the day, when I go to sleep alone, or when I wake up alone. Love is not enough for him, obviously, and it's not enough for me.

 

You're wrong on one thing here. Love is enough for him because he's got the best of both worlds. He's got someone to hold him in the middle of the night, someone to reach out to, to make love to (even if he denies it, he does do this), someone to spend weekends and holidays with, and someone to share retirement with. Why on earth would he give all that up when you're still so willing to be there for him at his whim?

 

Please stop living off of crumbs. Until you treat yourself better and realize you deserve better, you'll always be second place.

[kkat]

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

What I meant was, that even though he does love me, it's not enough to make him leave his other life...where he has all the things you outlined.

 

I completely agree with you.

[Fancy]

Kkat, I know how terribly hard this must be for you, but you have to break away from him. You know in your heart that he's not going to leave. You admit that freely. You know this, yet you continue to linger on and settle for seconds. Why? I think this whole situation is so much more about you than it is him. You're clearly lacking something inside and in your life to subject yourself to this kind of treatment. Would you advise your best friend to stick this out? Would you advise a coworker or a family member to be treated this way? Of course not! Then why do you allow yourself to hurt over and over? You will never find happiness with this man. You're setting yourself up for pain and rejection and it's sure to come. Look how much you've already gotten. There's a man out there who wants to commit to you and wants to be there for you wholly and completely but sadly, you'll never meet him as long as you're waiting by the phone for this married man who is tied to another woman for the rest of his days.

 

I truly hope that one day you'll have that "lightbulb moment" and realize that you're worth so much more than this. God didn't put you on this earth to live in this manner. There's so much out there in the world for you. It's all at your fingertips. Let go of him and grasp something healthy!!

[kkat]

Thank you Fancy.

 

I'm working, every day, towards breaking off with him but I haven't gotten there yet.

 

I'm not sitting by the phone waiting for him - I don't have to because he is consistently calling me several times a day and initiates spending time with me several times a week. What I have been doing is making other plans, limiting my phone calls with him, etc. - and not going out with him every chance there is - honestly, trying to wean myself off him I guess.

 

I am also totally open to going out with other men. I just haven't met anyone else I was interested in or who has asked me out, but I go out and explore --- at the gym, at events, with friends, etc. - and am looking for a more healthy relationship.

 

Ironically, my therapist and the majority of my close friends have discouraged me from making a break from him at this point - as you picked up - other areas in my life and self esteem are at an all-time low (and were before he came back into my picture - in fact, I know that had I been on my game I wouldn't have gotten involved with him again...). Basically, the advice I've been given from my therapist and friends is to continue the very dedicated work I'm doing to get a new business started, get my depression under control, and work on the other areas of my life - but not to throw anything else into further chaos by ending with him now.

 

But I feel I am getting closer everyday to ending things. My feelings for him have changed alot - I don't feel as obsessive, needy, etc. - because my depression is lifting, and I'm focusing on areas other than him.

 

But, bottom line - I have been very weak when it comes to this- and all I can tell you is that I know you're right, and I just haven't found the strength to make the break yet. I will...and I hope for my sake I do before he does, but I'm not there today.

 

Thanks again.

[Fancy]

Kkat, believe me when I tell you, I know exactly what you're going through. I was very nearly destroyed myself. I'm glad that you're pursuing other interests and I think that's wonderful. Becoming independant will help to increase your self esteem. I have to say, though, I'm a little shocked your therapist isn't telling you to make a clean break with this guy. I understood what you said the reasons were, but I'm surprised nevertheless. I personally feel that every single second you remain tied to him in any capacity is only putting you back further. I've always been a big believer in making a clean break from any bad relationship--whether it be a friendship, a lover, or a family member.

 

This man feeds off of your insecurity. He's well aware of the power he holds over you. It's a huge boost to his self-esteem. Meanwhile, you pay the price for that.

 

You were mentioning in the beginning of this thread that he loves you. Kkat, I know you believe that, but you have to understand something--love isn't a feeling; it's an action. Love isn't saying, "I love you," and "I miss you." Love is taking steps to be with a person permanently. Love is showing what you feel, not telling what you feel. You and this man are two lonely, unhappy people, each with a different set of goals, feeding off of each other. Despite what he tells you, you're merely a supplement to his life, not the main course. I know it hurts to hear that and I'm truly not trying to hurt you. I just want you to see that you're deserving of so much more. This man isn't the lifeline you think he is to you. You can live without him...........and live a much better life, in fact! He's not some kind of life support system you have to be weaned off of. He's poison to you, Kkat. Please, please look in the mirror and realize that you're a lovely, worthy lady. He is not the security blanket you may believe he is. He's a blanket that's suffocating you and keeping you down and out. You will never know happiness, peace and victory unlesss and until you break away completely. I can guarantee you that.

[kkat]

I do think Fancy is right - even though my therapist and friends have said otherwise.

 

I think they see the side of me that is doing "better" from a depression perspective, but maybe don't realize that there is a part of me that feels like CRAP for staying involved with a man who is married with no intentions of leaving his wife.

 

I KNOW that even IF he did leave his wife, there are many, many things about him that I realize now - I didn't realize them the first time years ago when I lived with him -- that make him not perfect.

 

But then I flipflop, and look at the things I enjoy and love about him, and that's when I go into sub-fantasy mode - sort of thinking "what if" about a future with him - even though I know it will not happen and don't even believe that's what's best for me.

 

I believe one of the biggest issues I have is that I feel so bad about myself because he has not chosen me in the way that matters. I feel like a loser in a competition.

 

I just ordered every book on Amazon about ending affairs, ending addictions to men, etc. etc. OK I have to laugh at my own disaster!

[Skittles]

I feel like a loser in a competition

 

Kkat you are not the loser, his wife is. Actually his behavior puts him in loser/user category, but it is his wife that he made vows to and has broken everyday and will continue to break long after you are gone, that is the loser.

 

 

Feel sorry for her.

 

And as Fancy said he will retire with this lady, but she will still be a betrayed spouse, comfortable retirement or not.

In fact til death do them part, she will always be the betrayed spouse.

 

End it as soon as you can and just be grateful that no man has betrayed you in this way.

[kkat]

Thank you for your continued kindness Skittles.

 

What do you think the difference is between the other women on this forum, and elsewhere, who end bad relationships and those like me who stay in them? Is there something I can change about myself that will make me better and more like these other people?

[jester]

What do you think the difference is between the other women on this forum, and elsewhere, who end bad relationships and those like me who stay in them? Is there something I can change about myself that will make me better and more like these other people?

 

Don't put the onus on your character. Your case is different from the garden variety "other woman." You lived with your married man for two (2) years. You were in a de facto marriage. That's an intense bonding --one that most "other women," with their never ending wait for hubby to leave wifey, never see.

 

That, my friend, is a blessing and a curse. You've looked at this relationship from both sides now: both inside and outside. Who knows? Maybe his wife became the "other woman" when you both were living together.

 

You'll only break free from this man if you throw yourself into other relationships. I would use other men to help you to drown out this man's voice in your life. You have to silence him once and for all.

[Arabess]

k,

You are right....sometimes love isn't enough.....not when it's in word and partial deed....but seems to escape the committment portion.

 

You have to be out of the whole relationship for awhile to really get to a place where you can look at it objectively. Then you'll stand back and think "Damn him....how DARE him to expect me to sit and wait while he plays 'house' with another woman!!!". How utterly unfair to both you and her.

 

This man left her and lived with you....then left you and went back with her. There is NO EXCUSE for someone to do the person they claim to love that way. He isn't divorcing because he doesn't want to....and why should he? He has his family and his lover. You are helping to enable him this sort of 'cakeman' lifestyle. Maybe if you stepped out of the picture.....he would have to actually FACE his maritial problems intead of denying them in this delusional world he is sharing with you....of a 'happy place'....no one is really arriving at.

 

It's in THOSE thoughts which you will find the strength to give him an ultimatum or get the hell out of the whole painful mess.

 

You know I care k.....I wish I could change it for you. Unfortunately, the only person who can change this path....is you.

 

Keep posting your thoughts....

Arabess

[saintfrancis]

Originally posted by Fancy

This man isn't the lifeline you think he is to you. You can live without him...........and live a much better life, in fact! He's not some kind of life support system you have to be weaned off of. He's poison to you, Kkat. Please, please look in the mirror and realize that you're a lovely, worthy lady. He is not the security blanket you may believe he is. He's a blanket that's suffocating you and keeping you down and out.

 

Amen to that! I broke things off with my ex-MM. Although we are still in casual contact, I already feel as though a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders, after only a few short weeks. I feel more peace and hope in my life than I did most of the past year with him. I love him still, but it's NOT enough. When you do finally break yourelf away from this situation, you will start to experience a better life for yourself, and you may even wonder why you held on to him for so long.

[Skittles]

Originally posted by kkat

Thank you for your continued kindness Skittles.

 

What do you think the difference is between the other women on this forum, and elsewhere, who end bad relationships and those like me who stay in them? Is there something I can change about myself that will make me better and more like these other people?

 

 

 

Kkat, just like jester and Arabess said, in a nutshell, it is so important not to lump yourself into the spider woman or fatal attraction category. This guy lived with you..he is fickle Fred and deserves neither one of you ladies.

Imo, it is imperative for your healing and journey towards emotional freedom to recognize your worth as a human being...see it and embrace it.

 

The ladies who shook the mm addiction did so step by step...you will too, I believe that to be true. You need to change nothing about your beautiful and loving self. You will end this when you are ready and not a minute sooner...

 

Accepting yourself is huge, and part of the healing process imo...

 

My wish for you is that your mm relationship eventually bores you so that it inspires no emotion from you of any kind...because even anger keeps folks connected.

 

You will get there as long as you are open to letting new folks into your life and continue growing...

 

[Arabess]

Originally posted by saintfrancis

When you do finally break yourelf away from this situation, you will start to experience a better life for yourself, and you may even wonder why you held on to him for so long.

 

TOTALLY TRUE! Even though the memory and tears will stay around for a long time.....you will STILL get to the place of wondering why the hell you put up with it so long. That's when you'll start posting on here to all 'other women'...GET OUT OF IT NOW! HAHA!

 

Regardless of the length of wait....the end result will remain the same. I can understand a guy screwing around....it happens. But to play the 'love card'....is unforgiveable. It's just plain old MEAN and SELF SERVING!

 

If he cared so much about his wife's feelings, enough not to divorce....well hell, then he should care enough to keep his pants zipped! All he cares about is his loss of funds and what everyone will think of him. THAT'S why he stays. ....and THAT isn't love for anyone but himself.

[kkat]

Thanks to you all, so very, very much. It's helping me more than you can know to read your posts.

[kkat]

And I continue the saga...

 

My therapist, and friends, continue to tell me not to make a big break right now with MM.

 

I find myself doing things over the past week to try and bait HIM to end it. Crazy.

 

I also told him, in several long coversations this week, that I am considering ending things - I told him I feel like the negatives are really building for me and the positives aren't enough anymore.

 

But yet, I talk and write about it, think about it -- but am afraid to break it off. I'm the same as him! He is afraid to change his life because he doesn't want to give up the security of it all. I am doing the same thing - I don't want to give up the false net of security I have with him and be totally alone again. I seem to have developed a big fear of my lonliness.

 

Anybody out there have any experience with CoDependents Anonymous? Wondering if its something I should try? Does my behavior seem to fit the codependency type?

[Skittles]

Hi kkat

 

I don't have experience with codependence anon. and I wouldn't venture to diagnose your relationship style with your therapist/lover buddy... ..

 

I guess following your new therapists advice is a good thing...I don't know...

 

What I would suggest, is for you to really make an effort to find something new to do.

Join a group of some kind that takes you outside of yourself...do ya like to bike, hike, arts and crafts...how about some amateur acting classes...you have lots of emotional angst to bring to a character thats for sure!

 

What interests you besides Dr. Lame Ass?

 

 

 

My wish for you is to distract your mind for awhile with other stuff...maybe your heart will follow.

[kkat]

Thanks Skittles. I'm wondering if maybe you have my MM confused with another LS poster - my MM's not a therapist, far from it. He's a business.

 

But, I do see a therapist, and she has recommended that I not break off from MM because she feels that he is a positive support in my life right now, and that I don't need anymore chaos. I don't know that I agree with this completely - in some ways yes, in other ways no. I am split 50/50. I know I am AFRAID to end it.

 

I have been trying to fill my time with other activities to break down my dependency on this guy - you name it - gym, yoga classes, working (although almost impossible for me to concentrate), walking -- I do as much physical activity as I can because I am struggling to lose weight but also because it helps my depression and it is a little more difficult to think about MM while thinking about making it through another pushup in class!

 

I think the reality here is that he's feeling ALOT of pressure from me over the past few days, a tremendous amount - and I think he is about to break. What I mean is that I think he will end it within hours or days because he is unable to handle the pressure I have been laying out.

 

There is absolutely something wrong with my picture - I am an otherwise together woman who is putting unbelievable energy into a relationship that clearly has no future. Yes, he calls constantly, makes plans with me, supports me as a friend, is an unbelievable confidant, etc. - and even with Valentine's Day - dinner, gifts, etc. - but he is CLEAR about the fact that he does not see himself ripping his little comfy life apart to have more with me. I would tell anybody in my shoes to run, not walk, away from this man - and I am so ashamed that I don't do it. I don't even feel anger towards him, I feel anger towards myself.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Skittles]

Sorry, kkat yes I did get confused with another mm.

 

 

I think that you are doing great...just keep doing it.

You are right, he wants to have you deep in his life yet offer you zero credibilty.

 

 

Boo hoo that he is feeling lots of pressure...He will probably tell you again that he loves you but can't leave his family.

 

I am so angry about this for you!....Please don't be hard on yourself ...This guy is being so uber-selfish it makes me want to hurl.

 

I hope you and his wife kick him to the curb...A bootprint on his butt might help him do some thinking maybe?

Perhaps a little behavior modification?

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, I believe that the mm hurts as well and gets himself into a mess because of his own reasons...I am not man-bashing...But Geez ...Enough already..

 

Since he is your confidant, ask him to advise you on a friend of yours who is involved with a mm who won't leave his family.

 

 

kkat I can't help being sarcastic at times about crappy behavior .....

 

 

 

I support you and I know you will blow this bogus relationship away when you are ready.

[jester]

Over the past few weeks, I've been dealing with a scare from a mammogram/lump, and the follow-up tests, in addition to the stresses of my business situation, an ill parent, etc. He's been unbelievably supportive through all of it, and during my medical appts. this week, even more so. And his actions have backed up his words, and I know he loves me.

 

kkat, I agree with your Therapist. For you, at this stressful time in your life, even half a loaf is better than starving.

Although far from an ideal relationship, this MM helps to keep you grounded and supported. Is the arrangement perfect? No. Is he perfect? Nope.

 

Even these empty calories, however, are better than starving. Keep working on getting your life back together, and continue to slowly wean yourself from him. Do not go Cold Turkey. You'll regret it, and relapse almost immediately.

 

Get emotional, intellectual and erotic support from as many alternative sources you can muster. As these alternatives grow in importance, he'll further diminish in stature and centrality.

 

You're weaning yourself right now. It is, however, a long, slow, painful and fitful process. Breaking up is very, very hard to do.

 

You must be brutally realistic: use the MM's love and support to make yourself strong enough so that you can rip him out of your life. It's relationship judo.

 

Good luck.

[Skittles]

It's relationship judo.

 

 

....I appreciate the visual jester.........

[kkat]

Jester, if you have accomplished nothing else in this day, know that you, with your reply (and caring enough to go back to my past post about the mammogram, etc.) -- topped with the emotional judo analogy -- have made me feel so, so, much better. And you as well, Skittles - I feel like you guys really care.

 

Believe it or not, in all other areas of my life - I do alright -- can't I do something for you guys? Analyze some business issue? A marketing plan perhaps? Call anyone you don't like and tell them off? Write a thesis for you? Come and organize your home or office with my professional organizing crew and skills? Maybe make restaurant reservations (can't cook).... Anything within any area other than breaking off with a MM since clearly that's my big weakpoint!

 

So, interpreting Jester's idea -- I have just put on my new, stunning bag and Chanel lipstick and No. 5 I received as guilt-gifts from MM for Valentine's Day, I'm taking my yoga'd and bootcamped body out with the other single gals, and believe me, if there is one straight man alone on this entire island tonight -- he's all mine.

 

Cheers to Valentine's Day being over in only a few, short, hours....sorry for the wacky post - just feeling better than I've felt all day long, thanks to my LS support system.

[jester]

Thanks, kkat. Just have mucho fun , tonight. That's all I ask.

[kkat]

Using Jester's encouragement and visualization, I started today as Day One of my Emotional Judo mission.

 

I will keep you all posted!

[kkat]

Oops, I meant Relationship Judo, not Emotional Judo. See, I'm so focused I can't even type.