complicatedlife Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I chose the Emily Brown quote because I've seen her referenced here as an expert. I had reason to believe posters on this thread respect her opinion. Understood. While I may not agree with many of her theories, I do respect her...and I agree, there are posters here that do agree with her theories and opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
sadintexas Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You love the person that makes you feel good. (from the teachings of Alberoni) That is the difference between altruistic love and selfish love. That doesn't make it an addiction. That makes it the love that generally takes place between a man and a woman (if heterosexual). We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I think Moral indignation is at times jealousy with a halo is more correct. To say it always is is a stretch, but so is to say it never is. I will agree with that. With respect to betrayal and secret affairs, I think Wells is more often incorrect than correct. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I think Moral indignation is at times jealousy with a halo is more correct. To say it always is is a stretch, but so is to say it never is. LOL!!! When you throw in "at times"...you open the door for exceptions...which a blanket statement like this never allows for. Not to mention it then opens the door to allow for the interpretation of "It's jealousy when it's moral indignation by someone I don't agree with.". Link to post Share on other sites
complicatedlife Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 My opinion though is that even adult children should only be informed by their parents, either both or one of them, certainly not by the MOP's BS. Gonna have to agree with you on this, JJ...I think it's out of line. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Maybe not. Although I do find it a little hard to reconcile that with your "unapologetic" stance. But every choice we make in life has possible consequences. If we do something we don't want others to know about (children, parents, whomever) then perhaps we're choosing to do something we're ashamed of? Or we know that it will damage the image those particular people have of us? Since my children are young, I will use my parents as examples. Say someone told my parents they knew I was sleeping with two different men. Or hell, that I'd had a threesome, or attended an orgy, or was into some kind of kinky fetish. So what? I'm an adult and can do what I choose to do. I'd have no problem with it (and neither would they). I'm not ashamed of that. I own my choices. If someone told them I was having an A with a MM, I would be ashamed because I know that I made a wrong (in our case immoral) choice in doing so. But the difference is I don't promote myself as unapologetic. I don't want it exposed because I am ashamed that I was involved with a MM. I own that choice, but I don't want it revealed because I am ashamed. Or we know that society or our parents or our children consider it wrong even if we do not. My kids are ashamed we don't own a car. I don't even share the same views on such a simple thing as my own children. I own my choices too. That doesn't mean I want everyone in my life to know about them. Knowing I am in a long term relationship with my MM is significant information about my everyday life so everyone knows about that. Knowing private information such as you were suggesting above about my sex life would bother me if it was told to my parents and my children. I guess we are different here. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 My opinion though is that even adult children should only be informed by their parents, either both or one of them, certainly not by the MOP's BS. You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but other people have reasons to feel differently. Once our children are adults, they are full members of the community on their own terms and we parents have no say regarding who they speak to, and about what. Like I've been saying, the truth WILL come out. To expect secrecy is simply unreasonable. If you don't want your grown children to hear of your affairs in the community, don't have them or disclose them on your own terms. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 LOL!!! When you throw in "at times"...you open the door for exceptions...which a blanket statement like this never allows for. Not to mention it then opens the door to allow for the interpretation of "It's jealousy when it's moral indignation by someone I don't agree with.". Of course there is much more power in a blanket statement. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but other people have reasons to feel differently. Once our children are adults, they are full members of the community on their own terms and we parents have no say regarding who they speak to, and about what. Like I've been saying, the truth WILL come out. To expect secrecy is simply unreasonable. If you don't want your grown children to hear of your affairs in the community, don't have them or disclose them on your own terms. It is one thing that they hear about it in the community, a totally different thing for the WS MOP's BS to deliberately make an appointment with them and inform them. I still think that is Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 It is one thing that they hear about it in the community, a totally different thing for the WS MOP's BS to deliberately make an appointment with them and inform them. I still think that is But wait - you've already stated that if your MM decides to drop you and remain in his M, you're going to tell the W so that he'll be miserable. What's the difference? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 It is one thing that they hear about it in the community, a totally different thing for the WS MOP's BS to deliberately make an appointment with them and inform them. I still think that is I think it is to invite the OM to the BS's funeral, and to (presumably) continue the relationship with the OM after the BS's death, allowing the grown children to believe he is "new". If that is the case, I can completely see why someone--anyone!--in the community, including the surviving BS, would speak up and inform the adult son about who this guy really is. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 But wait - you've already stated that if your MM decides to drop you and remain in his M, you're going to tell the W so that he'll be miserable. What's the difference? A love triangle consists of three people. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 A love triangle consists of three people. Period. Not when one or more of them has children - not by a long shot. If you ruin their marriage, you think it won't affect the kids? Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 A love triangle consists of three people. Period. Or of course in the case when both participants in the extramarital relationship are married: 4. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Not when one or more of them has children - not by a long shot. If you ruin their marriage, you think it won't affect the kids? The kids are affected by the adults' decisions and actions, but they are not participants in the love triangle. Link to post Share on other sites
Fieldsofgold Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 All the motivations you mentioned above of the BS seem to be centered around benefits for her/himself, not the benefit of those she/he is telling. Talk about lack of empathy. Ok, I just about gagged on this one. AN AFFAIR SHOWS A COMPLETE LACK OF EMPATHY ON THE PART OF BOTH AP's, for both the BS's and all the children!!!!! An affair is a selfish, self-indulgent act, participated in selye for the benefi of the AP's!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 The kids are affected by the adults' decisions and actions, but they are not participants in the love triangle. Yes, the kids would be affected by your decision to tell the BS. Same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 The kids are affected by the adults' decisions and actions, but they are not participants in the love triangle. If the AP is in the grown child's life, there is a separate adult-to-adult relationship to consider. Relationships built on a foundation of lies and half-truths can be expected to shake and fall. Link to post Share on other sites
Fieldsofgold Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Quote: Originally Posted by jennie-jennie All the motivations you mentioned above of the BS seem to be centered around benefits for her/himself, not the benefit of those she/he is telling. Talk about lack of empathy.(end of quote) How can you accuse the BS of a lack of empathy for telling the ADULT son? AN AFFAIR SHOWS A COMPLETE LACK OF EMPATHY ON THE PART OF BOTH AP's, for both the BS's and all the children!!!!! An affair is a selfish, self-indulgent act, participated in solely for the benefit of the AP's!!!!!!! How can anyone who is an AP to a WS with young children even make such a statement, criticizing a BS for lack of empathy??? Edited July 23, 2010 by Fieldsofgold Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 If the AP is in the grown child's life, there is a separate adult-to-adult relationship to consider. Relationships built on a foundation of lies and half-truths can be expected to shake and fall. This is an interesting thought. I just saw your other post about this. But who should be the one telling? I still don't think it is the WS MOP's BS' obligation to tell so. In this particular case, if I remember correctly, the extramarital relationship had been over for years, then the APs were renewing contact again after the MW's husband died, but the affair hadn't been restarted and was never restarted, since SidLyon found out about it. So the thoughts in your post don't apply to this particular situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Mimolicious Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Being an unapologetic OW of course everybody I know, relatives and friends alike, know of my relationship, but that is because I have told them. Not the BS. Imagine I decided to reveal the existence of our relationship not only to the BS, but to everybody else my WS knows. That is going a bit too far, isn't it? She can't tell ANYBODY something she doesn't know anything about. Can't she? Telling is a "a bit too far"? What about the actual acts that produce these details? Are those a going a bit too far too? Anywho. If you don't want to be a doctor, you don't go to med school. If you don't want to be a lawyer, you don't go to law school. If you don't want your children to grow up and one day find out what a liar, disloyal, abusive, etc human being your are DON'T BEHAVE AS SUCH! That simple. Ya'll get the drill... Amazes me how selfish parents want to place their needs before the best interest of their children, then when it hits the fan all of the sudden they want to become selfless to protect their kids from the truth. RIIIIGHT! If you dont want your kids to know who you are "intimate" with, don't introduce them to the person that you are splacking with (since we are so focused on the sexual part of A's). Kids are not stupid, they don't need graphic details to figure things out. If they see Mrs. Smith's (the next door neighbors) H "fixing" your bathroom pipe once a week, they will eventually figure it out. THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS COME OUT! Even when you're in your death bed it will come out!!! Wondering- Does every thread has to be sucked into an almost off-topic discussion centered around a specific relationship? Geez... Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Quote: Originally Posted by jennie-jennie All the motivations you mentioned above of the BS seem to be centered around benefits for her/himself, not the benefit of those she/he is telling. Talk about lack of empathy.(end of quote) How can you accuse the BS of a lack of empathy for telling the ADULT son? AN AFFAIR SHOWS A COMPLETE LACK OF EMPATHY ON THE PART OF BOTH AP's, for both the BS's and all the children!!!!! An affair is a selfish, self-indulgent act, participated in solely for the benefit of the AP's!!!!!!! How can anyone who is an AP to a WS with young children even make such a statement, criticizing a BS for lack of empathy??? Since when do two faults make one right (if I now was to agree with you that I was doing anything wrong)? Of course regardless of my own actions, I might have opinions on others' actions. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Since when do two faults make one right (if I now was to agree with you that I was doing anything wrong)? Of course regardless of my own actions, I might have opinions on others' actions. So how about NO ONE do things wrong and don't have the A in the first place? Then not only will there not be TWO wrongs, there won't be one. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Since when do two faults make one right (if I now was to agree with you that I was doing anything wrong)? Of course regardless of my own actions, I might have opinions on others' actions. Two wrongs don't make a right. Still, it is hypocritical to participate in a betrayal, and then be outraged when the betrayed party retaliates. Her retaliation is provoked, if not justified. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Amazes me how selfish parents want to place their needs before the best interest of their children, then when it hits the fan all of the sudden they want to become selfless to protect their kids from the truth. RIIIIGHT! Amazing, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts