If he's a happily MM, then why is he with me?

[noel2]

I don't understand what some of the abbreviations on here stand for. For example, BS. I know what OM/OW is, M, A, but there are some others I don't seem to get.

[2sunny]

why does he? because YOU allow it.

 

stop allowing it... NO MORE!

 

YOU have choices over YOUR life... now start choosing wisely.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't understand what some of the abbreviations on here stand for. For example, BS. I know what OM/OW is, M, A, but there are some others I don't seem to get.

 

Go to this link, "LS Terminology":

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t228723/

[noel2]

Thank you!!!

[stillafool]

I have been involved with single men, available men, only to be completely disappointed. I didn't enter into a A because I get off on being with another W's husband, if it were that simple, it never would of happened.

 

 

So involving yourself with two other women's husbands has been satisfying to you? I have been single and when one single guy didn't work out I moved on to the next single guy, not a married man. Any sane woman knows involving herself with a married man is a dead end street. Even if you end up with him there is such a thing as Karma.

 

 

I have to ask you did you have a good relationship with your father? Was he loving to you?

[Iconoclast]

Now, go ahead, give it to me again, I'm ready.

 

Ok. no problem...your're a......... just kidding.

 

Here's the deal, my beef, it's not about you. The pleasure you receive from the company Captain Happily Married, comes at the expense of his wife and three children. You get half the blame for that. Try to step into her shoes for a moment, how does it feel? Do you want to be responsible for that?

 

Yeah, i'm a monster, a mean spirited, bitter a-hole. Whatever. But all I see is two cars heading straight for one another. One has you and the OM in it. In the other is the Wife and three children. They can't hear me, but your car can. I keep shouting, turn, turn, turn, you're gonna crash.

 

Noel, if you were to make the commitment, to end this, NOW, right now. Tell him it's over. Do not contact me. Then tomorrow you could wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and say "I am a good person, I will only do good things". It's all about going forward.

 

Don't you want to be able to forgive yourself? Doing the right thing WILL boost your self esteem.

 

I hnow you can't see it. But I am doing this to help. It gets you angry. Probably because you know i'm right.

 

Good luck.

 

End it now and set yourself free. No try. Do.

[fooled once]

I do understand how you can call me a home wrecker, but this affair is not all I am. Please understand that people do foolish things, bad things, but that doesn't make them bad people.

 

Yes, but when people realize they are doing foolish/wrong things, they stop that behavior. you yourself said you weren't strong enough to end it. That is an excuse. You are choosing to NOT end it because you don't want to; because you don't care who you hurt and you are only concerned about YOUR needs and YOUR desires.

 

You choose to continue not because you are weak, but because you want someone to fawn all over you - even if you are only getting the crumbs or getting his left overs.

 

Own what you are doing. Either be proud of it or end it.

[White Flower]

First I want to say hello to everyone on here. I am new as of today so please bear with me if I sound clumsy.

 

I have been seeing a guy for a couple months and he is a MM of 16 years with 3 kids. I am starting to feeling very attached to him, yet at the same time I have a whole lot of doubt brewing in my mind. I guess I should mention that I had a year and a half affair with a MM a few years ago, so not only am I not new to this, I am confused as to how I am here once again.

 

My MM is someone I've known for quite a few years, he was a regular customer at the place I work(ed), after I no longer worked there he contacted me and asked what happened to the business and where I'm now working. Anyway through many text's we started this affair (we've known we liked each other for quite awhile). Two months in now and today I started asking questions, such as "why have I not gotten any steamy late night text's if you're out of town?" His response was that his wife is with him, the conversation continued on until I finally said that I assumed he and his wife were unhappily married because he's seeing me, he said he was sorry that I thought that, said he isn't running from anything or unhappily married, he is just drawn to me, its not about his wife, but all about me.

 

I'm so incredibly confused and feel so stupid to have assumed he is unhappy. My question is, Why does a man that says he's happy at home feel the need to act upon his being "drawn" to another woman?

He might believe he is happy, but you're right...he is still searching for something to complete him.

 

He is probably a sex addict (SA).

 

He is looking for intimacy because he doesn't already have it. I'm not talking about sex, he obviously has that and wants more. But he won't find true intimacy by having all kinds of sex partners.

 

When he finds true intimacy, he will stop cheating.

 

Question is, are you willing to spend 5, 10, or 15 years trying to create/discover that intimacy only for him to say that he's much too invested in his M, life, kids, etc.?

 

My MM was very happily M and had all kinds of OW on the side. But he never had intimacy. Now that he has found it with me, he is actually unhappy for the first time in his life because of the investment he's built over there which contrasts vastly with the happiness and rare intimacy he has/had over here. I'm so happy he finally found it, but can he re-create a new life in order to have the balance he desires at this age in his life?

 

And your MM is young. He hasn't played around enough to know how empty it feels being a serial cheater, assuming that he will be.

 

Never trust a cheating MM who says he is happily M. Trust me on that one.

 

PS

 

Welcome to LS. I hope you find lots of guidance and friendship here:)

Edited August 1, 2010 by White Flower

[2sunny]

 

1. He is probably a sex addict (SA).

 

2. He is looking for intimacy because he doesn't already have it. I'm not talking about sex, he obviously has that and wants more. But he won't find true intimacy by having all kinds of sex partners.

 

3. When he finds true intimacy, he will stop cheating.

 

 

4. Never trust a cheating MM who says he is happily M. Trust me on that one.

 

1. not necessarily - he may just be a selfish, self serving man.

 

2. not necessarily. he may not be looking for anything at all except sex. MM are sometimes willing to tell you anything you need to hear in order to feed their selfish, self serving nature.

 

3. not necessarily. this is such wishful thinking! most men who cheat never stop cheating. men cheat, he cheats - what makes you think he will stop cheating just because he MAY find intimacy? what if he NEVER finds intimacy but pretends he does? there is no way to measure intimacy - so how would anyone know if a person finds a level that suits their need to quit cheating. some men cheat because they can - or because they want to - or because they think they deserve it. there are zillions of reasons why... they cheat because they can... because there are always women willing to cheat with them.

 

4. this is good advice. it's hard to trust when someone shows evidence of being completely untrustworthy. trust is earned.

Edited August 1, 2010 by 2sunny

[2long]

The solution 2 your problem is still really this simple:

 

Tell the MM's W about your affair. She will help you end it, I swear. And you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you CAN be truthful and honest, even though you aren't at the moment.

 

OW/OM all exist and thrive as such because of the secrecy. End that, and the role ends and is replaced with something more valuable than being a toy on someone's side: personal integrity.

 

OW/OM get in their roles because of an imma2re concept of what love is. Romantic love is temporary, even in the best of circumstances (where it's completely open, doesn't have 2 hide from the world, doesn't derive its existence on living a lie). These people will often say things like "life is short, why not pursue a relationship with 'the one you love' even if that person has already promised 2 spend their lives with another?"

 

Life IS short. Why not spend what little time we have here on the things of true value? Integrity, honor, leading a moral life, and loving as a choice rather than being at the whims of our feelings?

 

-ol' 2long

[jennie-jennie]

My MM thought he was happily married too. In fact that is one of the first things he told me. It turned out he hadn't realized how much there was to be had in a relationship until he experienced it with me. When you know there is so much more out there, it is difficult to be satisfied without it. So you could say my MM was living in blissful ignorance before, which led him to state that he was happy.

[jennie-jennie]

The solution 2 your problem is still really this simple:

 

Tell the MM's W about your affair. She will help you end it, I swear. And you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you CAN be truthful and honest, even though you aren't at the moment.

 

OW/OM all exist and thrive as such because of the secrecy. End that, and the role ends and is replaced with something more valuable than being a toy on someone's side: personal integrity.

 

OW/OM get in their roles because of an imma2re concept of what love is. Romantic love is temporary, even in the best of circumstances (where it's completely open, doesn't have 2 hide from the world, doesn't derive its existence on living a lie). These people will often say things like "life is short, why not pursue a relationship with 'the one you love' even if that person has already promised 2 spend their lives with another?"

 

Life IS short. Why not spend what little time we have here on the things of true value? Integrity, honor, leading a moral life, and loving as a choice rather than being at the whims of our feelings?

 

-ol' 2long

 

Studies have been made of brain chemistry where it is clearly shown that some individuals have the capacity of long term romantic love. These study participants still had activity in the parts of the brain which indicate romantic love emotions even after decades of being in the relationship.

Edited August 1, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[2long]

Oh, I don't doubt that romantic love can be sustained, provided there's a solid foundation for it that's based in the things that went in2 most wedding vows - things like "for better or for worse" and "in sickness and in health". When your MM got married, they made promises 2 be faithful for a lifetime (most do, anyway), not "so long as we both shall feel like it" or "so long as something I think's better doesn't come along", and most certainly not "if I do find someone 'better' or who puts out the way and when I want it, I'm going 2 start a relationship with them without telling you, and hide it from you for as long as I can".

 

Trying 2 find a way 2 approach noel's problem here in a way that won't just "scare her away" is hard. Telling her that it's okay 2 do what she's doing, when she knows it's not, may be telling her what she wants 2 hear (assuming she can be persuaded 2 keep it up - which might be easier in the short term than ending the affair), but it isn't telling her what she needs 2 know. She needs help ending her affair.

 

2 answer her original question, in another way:

 

" If he's a happily MM, then why is he with me?"

 

He really isn't with you, is he? (except when he feels like it). Do you really want 2 waste your life "being there" when your MM (or maybe some other woman's husband) gets a stiffy?

 

Do you ever want a family of your own?

 

-ol' 2long

[linwood]

Studies have been made of brain chemistry where it is clearly shown that some individuals have the capacity of long term romantic love. These study participants still had activity in the parts of the brain which indicate romantic love emotions even after decades of being in the relationship.

 

Jennie do you have a link to these studies or an article about it?

 

I`d be very interested as I seem to be in one of these relationships but have always read that the neurology of romantic love was a temporary thing.

 

I`ve always wondered about this.

[Mimolicious]

My MM thought he was happily married too. In fact that is one of the first things he told me. It turned out he hadn't realized how much there was to be had in a relationship until he experienced it with me. When you know there is so much more out there, it is difficult to be satisfied without it. So you could say my MM was living in blissful ignorance before, which led him to state that he was happy.

 

I have to recycle a previous post of mine.

 

A while ago I bought an "AMAZING" pair of Diamond earrings, I wear them all the time but one thing I would not do is ever ever wear a pair of Cubic Zirconia-Mimo.

 

JJ- you have a special story or at this point I just heart you. Let's not get it twisted here though. This is not the case here. I don't think this MM found "amazing" he's found the flavor of the month. It's obvious that some people play games in A's and dont give a ish about their MM, Kids, W or anyone else involved. Complete waste of effort...

[Angel1111]

I do have self esteem thank you. And I do want to see both sides, thanks again! Have you ever been involved with a MM?

 

In reality, you're not deeply rooted in self-esteem. If you were, you wouldn't let yourself get involved in these kinds of relationships. I know because I've been there. I can review all the details in my head and see all the reasons that allowed me to get into it, but really I have always had a firm policy about not getting involved with married men. In xMM's case, I let my guard down and it was one of the biggest mistakes of my life. I thought xMM was a good man, I thought he wouldn't try to be with me unless he planned to leave his wife. I underestimated him. But the truth is, if I had had a healthy dose of self-esteeem, I would've told him that until he was divorced from his wife, he couldn't see me or talk to me. It took me awhile to see all the dynamics but I let myself get sucked in. These situations can hit you at times when you're at a low point in your life and you rationalize it. But it's not something that's worth compromising on in your life. I can assure you of that.

 

I have a better understanding of myself now as to why I got involved with a MM and I will never do it again. It is truly a fast-track to hell. I hope you'll disentangle yourself from this man soon because the longer you stay, the harder it will be. And I agree with the other poster who said that you don't need to just cut off sex with him, you need to cut off all communication and ties completely. And when he tries to get you back, you must take all measures to stay away. Change your phone number, email address - whatever it takes. Yes, it will hurt a LOT for awhile but you must do this for yourself and the others involved who would be destroyed by this. And, please, don't let yourself end up in this situation again - for yourself and everyone else concerned. I wish you luck.

[White Flower]

He might believe he is happy, but you're right...he is still searching for something to complete him.

 

He is probably a sex addict (SA).

 

He is looking for intimacy because he doesn't already have it. I'm not talking about sex, he obviously has that and wants more. But he won't find true intimacy by having all kinds of sex partners.

 

When he finds true intimacy, he will stop cheating.

 

Question is, are you willing to spend 5, 10, or 15 years trying to create/discover that intimacy only for him to say that he's much too invested in his M, life, kids, etc.?

 

My MM was very happily M and had all kinds of OW on the side. But he never had intimacy. Now that he has found it with me, he is actually unhappy for the first time in his life because of the investment he's built over there which contrasts vastly with the happiness and rare intimacy he has/had over here. I'm so happy he finally found it, but can he re-create a new life in order to have the balance he desires at this age in his life?

 

And your MM is young. He hasn't played around enough to know how empty it feels being a serial cheater, assuming that he will be.

 

Never trust a cheating MM who says he is happily M. Trust me on that one.

 

PS

 

Welcome to LS. I hope you find lots of guidance and friendship here:)

 

1. not necessarily - he may just be a selfish, self serving man.

 

2. not necessarily. he may not be looking for anything at all except sex. MM are sometimes willing to tell you anything you need to hear in order to feed their selfish, self serving nature.

 

3. not necessarily. this is such wishful thinking! most men who cheat never stop cheating. men cheat, he cheats - what makes you think he will stop cheating just because he MAY find intimacy? what if he NEVER finds intimacy but pretends he does? there is no way to measure intimacy - so how would anyone know if a person finds a level that suits their need to quit cheating. some men cheat because they can - or because they want to - or because they think they deserve it. there are zillions of reasons why... they cheat because they can... because there are always women willing to cheat with them.

 

4. this is good advice. it's hard to trust when someone shows evidence of being completely untrustworthy. trust is earned.

2sunny I generally like your posts and find them genuinely helpful. This one, not so much because you are trying to convince based on belief; however, I can see where you're coming from.

 

I happen to read a lot about relationships, addiction, and intimacy. Intimacy can be measured but that isn't really the point. When someone finds it, they know it and that is all that matters. So, I'll try to back up my statements with personal experience and with expert opinion on the subject based readings.

 

When people say, 'he may just be a selfish man' as you state under number 1, they are attaching a quick label that everybody understands as well as waves off. They are dismissed, the subject is dismissed, and there are no real solutions offered except to dump the person. You can believe in wall-crashing all you want, but as long as I live I will hope to find solutions to everything including people who want to change their lives when it seems impossible. This include addicts of every kind, not just SA. If you had no hope for alcoholics then I'm sure you'd be protesting AA meetings in your neighborhood.

 

I know what I'm talking about here.

 

In number 2 you suggest MM seeks to fulfil a self-serving nature. But what is at the core of that nature? What provokes him to overstep the boundaries he knows are there and risks losing everything he has? There is a reason for that, don't just dismiss it. Dismissing it hurts him AND the person who does the dismissing. Typically, addiction is at the core; unless there is a medical diagnosis that makes the person fearless.

 

As for number 3, you ask what makes me think he'll stop cheating if he finds true intimacy? I'll quote Patrick Carnes, PhD, expert on SA, and author of Out of the Shadows:

 

"Intimacy distrupts the addictive cycle".

 

The reason this is brought up in SA books as opposed to books on AA and other addictions is because sex is natural; it is good for us. Therefore, it makes it difficult for the SA to know when he's having sex for the emotional connection or for the fix. If he has found true intimacy, he can tell the difference.

 

And trust me, if you've ever had it, you know this is true. That is all I can say.

 

PS

No man can pretend he has intimacy! You either have it or you don't and both parties will recognize it. This is how you know he isn't lying to you.

[2long]

What is this "true intimacy" you're talking about?

 

Great sex?

 

If it's just physical, then I would argue it's something else besides "true" intimacy, because I don't believe it's possible 2 be truly intimate with your partner if you're lying and cheating 2 be with them.

 

Intimacy, 2 me (and probably a lot more people than not, really), is so much more than physical. It's more than a spiri2al connection, 2, but the spiri2al connection will never be complete if one or both partners are liars and cheats.

 

-ol' 2long

[2sunny]

how do they measure intimacy? i'm interested in knowing. is there a way to show solid evidence that it exists in the cheater - or even on a much greater scale than when he had no intimacy?

 

In number 2 you suggest MM seeks to fulfil a self-serving nature. But what is at the core of that nature? What provokes him to overstep the boundaries he knows are there and risks losing everything he has? There is a reason for that, don't just dismiss it. Dismissing it hurts him AND the person who does the dismissing. Typically, addiction is at the core; unless there is a medical diagnosis that makes the person fearless.

 

generally he is feeding his self gratifying nature. maybe his conscience is smaller than the average bear?

 

it could be he loves the "high" he experiences when he's involved in the secrecy and illicit sex.

 

it could be a number of things.

 

we can never be so sure as to make blanket statements one way or another. men cheat because they think they can get away with it... and it feels good to have their ego stroked.

 

but then again - those are just a few of MANY reasons.

[White Flower]

What is this "true intimacy" you're talking about?

 

Great sex?

 

If it's just physical, then I would argue it's something else besides "true" intimacy, because I don't believe it's possible 2 be truly intimate with your partner if you're lying and cheating 2 be with them.

 

Intimacy, 2 me (and probably a lot more people than not, really), is so much more than physical. It's more than a spiri2al connection, 2, but the spiri2al connection will never be complete if one or both partners are liars and cheats.

 

-ol' 2long

True intimacy has nothing to do with sex whatsoever. However, it surely can highten the sexual experience.

 

Intimacy is being able to tell your partner anything without fear of judgment or blame. Intimacy is the ability to bare your soul entirely without fear of losing the other person. Intimacy is love without promises, without documents. Can intimacy be shared within M? Sure it can! But it resides on its own without contraints or legalities.

 

I'm not sure all people reach this level in their romantic Rs the more I read here and the more that I bring it up in conversation IRL.

 

And I'll disagree with you. You CAN lie to be with someone else, but not lie to the one you lied for. I don't mean to confuse you, but it is possible.

 

Take Joe for example, he lied to get the day off to spend it with his family at Disney World. Just because he lied to his boss, does that mean his feelings for his family were insincere?

 

I don't think so.

 

Look, if MM was a single guy and he had intimacy with one girlfriend and didn't with the other, then chose to M the one he shared intimacy with nobody would be arguing this point. But since he IS M, we seem to need to blow all logic out of the water.

[White Flower]

how do they measure intimacy? i'm interested in knowing. is there a way to show solid evidence that it exists in the cheater - or even on a much greater scale than when he had no intimacy?

You know 2sunny, I was going to go dig up some books for you but first I'll say, again, (due to time) that the person who feels true intimacy just knows it. Sometimes they can label it and sometimes they can't. All I can back it up with RIGHT NOW is the fact that our country has a 50-60% D rate which tells me that of those Ds some MPs found a higher level of intimacy outside of their M.

 

People don't mess something like that up. If they have it, they don't screw with it.

 

I will dig up books and facts for you as I find them because this subject is as interesting to me as you seem to have found it.

 

generally he is feeding his self gratifying nature. maybe his conscience is smaller than the average bear?

 

it could be he loves the "high" he experiences when he's involved in the secrecy and illicit sex.

 

it could be a number of things.

 

we can never be so sure as to make blanket statements one way or another. men cheat because they think they can get away with it... and it feels good to have their ego stroked.

 

but then again - those are just a few of MANY reasons.

Um, isn't that a blanket statement?

 

I rather think those are factors in getting away with it, but not reasons for doing it. Further, a lot of MM get their egos stroked at home.

[2sunny]

You know 2sunny, I was going to go dig up some books for you but first I'll say, again, (due to time) that the person who feels true intimacy just knows it. Sometimes they can label it and sometimes they can't. All I can back it up with RIGHT NOW is the fact that our country has a 50-60% D rate which tells me that of those Ds some MPs found a higher level of intimacy outside of their M.

 

People don't mess something like that up. If they have it, they don't screw with it.

 

I will dig up books and facts for you as I find them because this subject is as interesting to me as you seem to have found it.

 

 

Um, isn't that a blanket statement?

 

I rather think those are factors in getting away with it, but not reasons for doing it. Further, a lot of MM get their egos stroked at home.

 

i would love to see further info on this!

 

sure it's general info on why SOME cheat... but we all know they're are zillions of reasons.

 

not necessarily factors on them getting away with it - some THINK they are getting away with it - when they actually aren't.

 

i actually think the adrenaline rush a MM gets from his affair should be taken into consideration - and how that comes into play on the changes in his brain... much the same as a drug.

 

is it possible to THINK you have intimacy within a M - between the two married people - when, in fact, one of the marrieds is cheating? who would that intimacy belong to if the MM was entirely connected to both women (some are).

 

how would you measure IF the intimacy is within the two married - or it's between the MM and OW? if it shows it's present - can it be measured by whom - and with whom?

 

this baffles me - it logically doesn't seem possible to measure with whom, how much, and when it started or ended...

[2long]

True intimacy has nothing to do with sex whatsoever. However, it surely can highten the sexual experience.

 

Good, we agree!

 

Intimacy is being able to tell your partner anything without fear of judgment or blame.

 

Yes. In cases of infidelity, however, (and, sadly, based on my own experience), the "fear" is definitely in the mind of the beholder, and that goes for both the WS and the BS (or the sig others, if they're not married but in an otherwise committed relationship). Judging and blaming are unfor2nately things that people do when they feel hurt or attacked, as a na2ral tendency 2 lash back.

 

Intimacy is the ability to bare your soul entirely without fear of losing the other person.

 

I'm starting 2 lose lock here. True intimacy requires being more than a little vulnerable. We don't own our partners, they're free 2 come and go as they please. This is true of marriage as well (though my W insisted it wasn't, when she was trying 2 justify her affair, followed by her desire 2 stay in contact with Rat Meat after it ended). Obviously, it's easier 2 be vulnerable with someone you trust, in addition 2 loving them. Maybe someone who was willing 2 make promises 2 you in front of family and friends, for instance?

 

Intimacy is love without promises, without documents.

 

Intimacy is love. Promises and documents are promises and documents. Separate things. But they don't have 2 be mu2ually exclusive.

 

When my W and I decided 2 get married, we talked at length about this. She asked me "why do we need a piece of paper 2 be married? Why do we need a wedding, even?" The truth is that we didn't need those things (and it has been argued that they "obviously" made no difference because she had an affair in spite of them), but I told her that I loved her and was perfectly willing and desirous of telling our friends and family that I wanted 2 commit myself 2 her (2 share myself with her, not 2 own her or let her own me). I suppose it's like a dog pissing on his fire hydrant 2 some people, and maybe it started out that way for humans in general.

 

Can intimacy be shared within M? Sure it can! But it resides on its own without contraints or legalities.

 

Stated this way, it sounds like you are saying that it exists in defiance of the "constraints" and legalities.

 

I'm not sure all people reach this level in their romantic Rs the more I read here and the more that I bring it up in conversation IRL.

 

Me neither!

 

And I'll disagree with you. You CAN lie to be with someone else, but not lie to the one you lied for. I don't mean to confuse you, but it is possible.

 

This reminds me of something a friend of mine quoted some years ago about the difference between truth and honesty. I'm not even certain of the source, but it may have been from "How to Recognize Emotional Unavailability and Make Healthy Relationship Choices" - Bryn Collins

 

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

 

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

 

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability.

 

Take Joe for example, he lied to get the day off to spend it with his family at Disney World. Just because he lied to his boss, does that mean his feelings for his family were insincere?

 

No, but it might be interesting 2 hear what they would think if they knew what he'd done 2 spend the day with them.

 

Look, if MM was a single guy and he had intimacy with one girlfriend and didn't with the other, then chose to M the one he shared intimacy with nobody would be arguing this point. But since he IS M, we seem to need to blow all logic out of the water.

 

I don't think we're being illogical at all. Intimacy also requires an ability 2 empathize with others, does it not? Neither the MM or the OW are thinking much about how their selfish behavior is affecting those they promised 2 forsake each other for, are they?

 

-ol' 2long

[2long]

I'll say, again, (due to time) that the person who feels true intimacy just knows it. Sometimes they can label it and sometimes they can't. All I can back it up with RIGHT NOW is the fact that our country has a 50-60% D rate which tells me that of those Ds some MPs found a higher level of intimacy outside of their M.

 

People don't mess something like that up. If they have it, they don't screw with it.

 

What you are describing are feelings. True love and true intimacy come from healthy, thoughtful choices, and grow with time (and consistency).

 

"in love" feelings and the alleged intimacy that goes with it isn't even really love at all, but simple chemistry designed 2 propagate the species.

 

-ol' 2long

[White Flower]

i would love to see further info on this!

 

sure it's general info on why SOME cheat... but we all know they're are zillions of reasons.

 

not necessarily factors on them getting away with it - some THINK they are getting away with it - when they actually aren't.

 

i actually think the adrenaline rush a MM gets from his affair should be taken into consideration - and how that comes into play on the changes in his brain... much the same as a drug.

 

is it possible to THINK you have intimacy within a M - between the two married people - when, in fact, one of the marrieds is cheating? who would that intimacy belong to if the MM was entirely connected to both women (some are).

 

how would you measure IF the intimacy is within the two married - or it's between the MM and OW? if it shows it's present - can it be measured by whom - and with whom?

 

this baffles me - it logically doesn't seem possible to measure with whom, how much, and when it started or ended...

I love the satement you made which I bolded. Adrenaline is a rush and very addictive. There are so many things to be addicted to! But I could go on and on about that.

 

MM used to practically knock me down for sex when I opened the door. Our R grew and became very emotional. Then it became very intimate. I wish I could describe this word in deeper detail for you. Toward the end of the A (which he'd still like to continue) he found he didn't need to rush in the door for love-making. In fact, we'd often meet in parks for a picnic and he'd say we were making love with our minds. Sounds so silly, I know. Sex became an added benefit to the R instead of the main course. That is how a partner of a SA can know if he/she is cured. When their need for sex diminshes even if their need for YOU doesn't.

 

That doesn't mean there wasn't a need for sex...and it was still as hot as ever!

 

No, I don't believe a man who has cheated on his wife for decades has true intimacy with her. I do feel he can find intimacy with one person, yet have sex with another. Most people will agree that men are capable of having sex with random people...they don't need to be in love to have sex. Heck, even some women are like this. But sex does not equal intimacy so he is not sharing intimacy with all partners he sleeps with.

 

As for a MM being 'entirely connected to two women' I just don't believe it. He may be connected spiritually/emotionally with one and be connected by history and family and assets with the other. I don't believe he will feel the same feelings for each woman. It just doesn't add up.