dac Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I just registered so I could post on this board. I have spent 2 hours reading articles on the net when all I really need is to talk to someone. Today I got up early and surprised my fiance coming out of the bathroom. He asked if I was getting up now and I said yes (I usually sleep later) . He then proceeded to shower & have breakfast with me. Later I need to burn a cd and his computer has the burner and I can log on under myown name so I sat down to do so. He had not logged off and the program Kazaa was open to search- for porn videos....I felt sick . On the desk there was a lenght of toilet paper so I guess i "interupted" him . I know in the mornings he is usually on here 30 minutes or so as I see the light . I thought he was gaming. I checked his account- he has files downloaded and about 25 in progress and was still searching for more. We have our own computers from when we were single and so I don;t always know what he is doing but now I do. Last year I confronted him about porn online and he got his back up and quiet angry saying I was spying on him and I backed down. We moved to another country in the fall and I don;t have any close friends here and am feeling really insecure- I've gained wait being homesick and adjusting and just haven't felt good about myself so I joined a gym last week to do something about it. Our sex life has dwindled to 1x a week and is more routine than anything, when it used to be good. He doesn;t even ewant to kiss me anymore and it hurts.. I know I need to speak to him about our lovelife , but am wondering how to bring in the porn issue at the same time. I don't want him to get mad but to me 300 files or whatever seems excessive and I am afraid he has an addiction and I am scared. I deserve to know what I am getting into when I marry him if this is the case. What would you do if you were me? How would you handle the confrontation? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 If I were you, and your guy were my husband, I'd choke the shxt out of him, because my husband knows exactly how I feel about him looking for "excitement" in other places. I just don't feel it has a place in my relationship with him, and he understands that after going round and round with him why I feel the way I do. if his viewing porn is a source of distress for you, so much so that you don't want it in your relationship, you need to talk to him in as calm a manner as possible -- explain why you don't feel a need for it in your relationship, and what the consequences are. it's being heavy-handed, I'll admit, but until he can see it from your viewpoint, I honestly believe that a couple really doesn't have a means for compromise on an issue like that. talk to him, and don't hide the issue until you two have come to an agreement about what you both feel comfortable with. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I forgot to add, most women are probably more upset at knowing their guys hide their porn habits from them than knowing he finds the female form attractive ... Link to post Share on other sites
doniker Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Your right this subject has been beaten to death. I could be with the most beautiful perfect woman and have sex with her 3 times a day and I would still fantasize, look at porn and masturbate. Why? Because I like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Darkangelism Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 You should talk to him about the sex, but 300 files is not an addiction, porn has little to do with sex, but if it bothers you, you should talk to him about it, but you can't expect him to top, its not that easy. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Ya know, when we've been talking about porn, it's been abstract, but when you mentioned the toilet paper on top of the desk, all of a sudden it seemed so real. Porn... PORN... PORN... ...and knowing that he's in there every morning...and not enough sex or love for you... I recommend that you approach this in a practical way that will bring you closer. It can't be "Man Wrong, Woman Right", cause you both lose that way. How about letting him know that porn and mastubation are great, and you also would enjoy his time in the mornings, because you would like to "XXX" him because he is so hot. And then perhaps set a few guidelines or boundaries for porn and masturbation...basically times or places where you will give him space and agree not to ask or look. As long as he is giving equal time to meeting your needs with you. Why do guys hide their porn interests? I dunno...maybe cause they know they will get their asses chewed, and not in a good way???? Link to post Share on other sites
texas34 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I am a little unclear on this subject but are you upset that he is looking at pornography or that he is devoteing time to it instead of you? If he is neglecting your needs and feelings the I see where you are comeing from his first priority should be his wife no matter if you have gained some weight or not love and makeing love is an emotional attatchment not phisical I belive my my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world even after she has "gained a few pounds" since we met and has some strech marks from bearing my child I see it as we have grown together and I can think of how much we have evolved as a couple the phyisical changes are are part of a growing process as well but even as much as I love my wife I still do look at pornography (and yes sometimes masterbate) its not because she is not more attractive sometimes I like to not have to worry about pleaseing my partner I only have to worry about my enjoyment in your case its sounds like he does it alot why not ask him why he does it alot a guys I know do it because there are certain things you do not ask the woman you love to do and would never like to try just fantasy. why not ask him why he does in a non confrotational manner dont make him feel like you are angry or think hes a sicko he may be more willing to speak about it then another thing you can try (as appuling as it may seem to some) next time you get the chance maybe take a look a what hes been downloading it may be something like naughty nurses and you can suprise him w/ playing docter best of luck to you just remember married or not married porn or no porn the majority of men do masterbate and you should not be offended they have been doing it since adolescence . god knows we all need a little advice sometimes Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by SoleMate Why do guys hide their porn interests? I dunno...maybe cause they know they will get their asses chewed, and not in a good way???? Yes! As I said earlier, I could love and trust you to death, but I'm still going to shut the door to the bathroom when I defecate. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Dyer, hon, I know you're on a crusade to reconcile womanhood planetwide to male masturbation and porn use, but can you PLEASE stop talking about defecating? Everyone else here is going to think you're some 15 year old boy!! Bwahahaha! Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by SoleMate Dyer, hon, I know you're on a crusade to reconcile womanhood planetwide to male masturbation and porn use Is my crusade unjust? Am I being stupid about it? Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Is my crusade unjust? I can't see it as either just or unjust. Dang, now I have to look up "just", which apparently can mean: * Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions * Consistent with what is morally right; righteous: a just cause. * Properly due or merited: just deserts. * Suitable or proper in nature; fitting: a just touch of solemnity. * Based on fact or sound reason; well-founded: a just appraisal. All in all, I don't consider it particularly just. Am I being stupid about it? Well, I rarely use that strong term. You seem to have a position that admits little nuance, and an interest that borders on the obsessional. But all that's OK. I just don't want to hear about you defecating any more, that's all. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by SoleMate But all that's OK. I just don't want to hear about you defecating any more, that's all. You confuse me. Toilet paper on the desk provokes a thoughtful post, but gawd forbid I speak of it with connotations of its intended use? Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Is my crusade unjust? Am I being stupid about it? As crusades go, it's not bad. Porn and masturbation go together hand in glove. There is a zone of privacy argument, but that argument weakens when the inevitable relationship spill-over occurs. You should try my semi-crusade: Situational Arguments in favour of extra-marital affairs. That really goes down well with LoveShack's primary demographic. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by jester You should try my semi-crusade: Situational Arguments in favour of extra-marital affairs. That really goes down well with LoveShack's primary demographic. I'm not *trying* to cause trouble though. Link to post Share on other sites
Darkangelism Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by SoleMate Dyer, hon, I know you're on a crusade to reconcile womanhood planetwide to male masturbation and porn use, but can you PLEASE stop talking about defecating? Everyone else here is going to think you're some 15 year old boy!! Bwahahaha! But isnt Dyer young? I mean chronologically, not mentally, cause there he is older then people twice his age. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I'm not *trying* to cause trouble though. What does that mean? Are you implying that I'm not honestly advancing the argument but only doing so for effect? This inquiring mind wants to know. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Is my crusade unjust? Am I being stupid about it? Yes and No Yes in that your view is so well established that it makes absolutely no difference what the person says, how they feel, what the context is etc. To me this seems as though they (people asking advice and their experiences/feelings/opinions) literally do not matter to you. No in that you are bright and there is a sound basis to your arguments/views. I don't think you are trying to cause trouble. Your mind is closed on this issue, that's all - and it shows. Just my view Dyer - many will disagree. You give some great advice in other areas and have legitimate points to make in this one too. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by meanon Your mind is closed on this issue, that's all - and it shows. Read the posts I made to "somebody". (Unregistered User, pages 2-3) That was continued in PM's, by her own choice. I don't like to think that I'm condemning people without regard for their feelings--I'm not a proud person, if there's a way in which I'm dealing with people that's irresponsible or counterproductive, I'd honestly seek to change that. Even in my posts with April, I made it clear that pornography addiction can be unhealthy. My advice to her was to get counseling--I didn't pretend that porn was beyond reproach and she's just crazy, she just couldn't handle that I said her marriage lacked intimacy, because I was "pro-porn", my opinion was ignored, so it became more and more caustic, because I knew that I had rational responses to the emotional arguements--perhaps I sacrificed any credibility with the loss of compassion? Some of the stuff she said to me was pretty rude, I guess I shouldn't have taken it personally. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Those were my words Dyer not Jester's Sorry Dyer I think I was a little harsh - went back to edit but you had already replied. I know you help people, really. It's interesting what you say about compassion - maybe that's it - when we lose it that's the time to bail out because we can no longer take account of the effect of the advice on the feelings of the person receiving it. Does that make sense? You have NOT blown your credibility - there is no credibility meter on LS (thank god or I would have been shown the door ages ago). No hard feelings? Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by meanon maybe that's it - when we lose it that's the time to bail out because we can no longer take account of the effect of the advice on the feelings of the person receiving it. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense, and I'm dissapointed if people are perceiving that as my intention, it's certainly not. No hard feelings? Of course not, I don't carry grudges. That's a girl thing Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 No not your intention but your effect. Please look again at Solemate's summary: You seem to have a position that admits little nuance, and an interest that borders on the obsessional. and Jester's point that where the nuance is lacking is in the effect on the relationship. Of course not, I don't carry grudges. That's a girl thing Sexist pig P.S. (JOKE!) Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by meanon Please look again at Solemate's summary I read it, I just honestly disagree. I do admit that I got frustrated with AprilFool, but that was *way* after I had resigned that there was no way anything I said was being listened to, by her own nasty admission. I was patient with "somebody"--we listened and responded well, she valued what I had to say, and I valued her feelings, even if I felt that they were delusional. She wasn't put off by it, at least after she had read what I said. I really don't like the idea of drawing this line in the sand, the "ANTI PORN" people and the "PORN LOVERS"--it's counterproductive. I never give blanket advice without reading the post, I can't help it if situations tend to be similar (e.g., "he doesn't love me" etc) I know that I don't get off on hurting people's feelings, but I also don't feel the need to sugarcoat what I mean with flowery words or a head-on-my-shoulder attitude. I think that other people take care of that, it doesn't come natural to me. Edited to add: When I said it doesn't come natural to me, I mean faking compassion. I've been compassionate with people on this forum, when they truly make me feel such pathos. Most of the time when I feel this way, I don't even say anything, I'm humbled, I don't know what to do to help. Like with jmargel's post about his fiancee (two e's). In the case of somebody, I felt bad that she FELT this way, and I felt bad for her man--I felt he was the victim, of being in a relationship where she had already withdrawn emotionally. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 where the nuance is lacking is in the effect on the relationship There's a tension running throughout many issues on LS involving porn, masturbation, affairs, etc. That's the inherent conflict between individual self-gratification and self-fulfilment and commitment to the quality of the relationship. Both sides have blind spots: the self-gratifiers discount or paper over the frequently ill effects their self-gratifying behaviour has on loved ones and the relationship-centric often fail to acknowledge that a relationship, even a good one, has its limitations and is not a panacea. Sometimes work on a relationship is not enough. For many of us, it's a struggle to maintain that healthy balance between individual appetite and relationship obligations. Marriage does not always harness the id. The id, on the other hand, even when unleashed does not always wreak a relationship. For those of us who are id-dominated, the trick is not spinning out of control. For the relationship-centric, the trick is not making the relationship the yardstick against which all things are measured and judged. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by jester Both sides have blind spots: the self-gratifiers discount or paper over the frequently ill effects their self-gratifying behaviour has on loved ones and the relationship-centric often fail to acknowledge that a relationship, even a good one, has its limitations and is not a panacea. Sometimes work on a relationship is not enough. I have recognized this in the past, all I was 'gung-ho' about is separating sex from intimacy--a distinction, if I recall, that you wouldn't concede to. I guess I feel like I can be honest, without having you be upset at me, so here goes: I think that you have this need to have conflict, you enjoy it. You are an articulate and powerful debator, and so you actually go out of your way to create some of this conflict. I notice posts where you turn one thing into another, something that you are passionate about, where you try to draw up "teams"--and then you fight the war that you're creating. Do you feel like a victim of criticism? Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I think that you have this need to have conflict, you enjoy it. You are an articulate and powerful debator, and so you actually go out of your way to create some of this conflict. I notice posts where you turn one thing into another, something that you are passionate about, where you try to draw up "teams"--and then you fight the war that you're creating. Do you feel like a victim of criticismm? I enjoy debate, and sometimes I just like to riff. Occasionally, I'll even proffer advice of substance. Not too often, though. LoveShack is a cyber-universe of the human heart. There are 8 million tales, here. Many sad, some poignant and a few downright funny. I love the humanity, here, in all its glorious messiness. And I love the fiction we all share that our words here will help make sense of this emotional chaos. I don't mind criticism, Dyer, as long as its not too personal. Tis better to be criticised than ignored on these boards, my friend. Good points. Link to post Share on other sites
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