Intermittent Fasting

[tman666]

Some pretty interesting articles on EliteFTS:

 

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-part-2-breakfast/comment-page-1/#comments

 

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/interviews/intermittent-fasting%E2%80%94to-feast-or-not-to-feast-an-interview-with-martin-berkhan/

 

The idea seems to be that eating breakfast is counterproductive to fat loss. Berkhan uses a 16 hour fast followed by an 8 hour feeding window. Kiefer talks about skipping breakfast and having the first meal of the day around noon. Both approaches advocate the intake of carbs (and lots of them) post workout only.

 

I would be interested in trying this, but I'm afraid. Very afraid. I love my strength too much. I wouldn't mind being leaner, for sure, but I have a very hard time wrapping my head around how a morning fast diet would allow for simultaneous fat loss and performance gains.

 

However, if what Kiefer and Berkhan advocate is viable for both goals, we're looking at the holy grail of fitness nutrition.

 

What are your thoughts, LSers?

[PrettyinInk]

i have read up on this quite a bit as well, and the idea interests me (my priorities being a bit different than yours- to lean out first, strenghten second), only problem being that I work out in the morning, and have not been able to find any information on what type of fasting schedule to use in that situation.

also, i love breakfast, i love breakfast so much, it is my favorite meal of the day

[tman666]

That's another thing! Breakfast is probably my favorite meal of the day too! Having a big bole of quaker oat squares is my primary reason for wanting to roll my carcass out of bed every morning... Kidding of course, but I love breakfast.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would make the sacrifice if this method promised lean body mass maintenance (or gains) + fat loss, but I think I want to see some more people (specifically, people with bigger muscles) use this method first. Most of the pictures of people who use this that I've seen so far seem to be on the smaller side of things. Obviously, they're lean as hell, but they're generally smaller than the look I would want to maintain...

 

Looks aside, I would also like to see some performance data from people who use this method over the long term (more than a few months). To me, I would rather be strong, fast, and powerful and carry a little more lard than be super lean and have the athletic ability of a sparrow.

 

I know that's a bit of an extreme comparison, but you get my point.

[Not strong enough]

I rarely eat breakfast, maybe 1-2 times a month, i rarely eat lunch now adays, i eat a small meal at the end of the day.

 

I can't say doing this or anything else has ever made me any thinner, i know most people say your not supposed to eat late at night, well that only applys when you actually sleep at normal times. 9pm would be my normal dinner time based off when i wake up so i think im ok there.

 

Really the only thing thats ever given me weight loss and muscle mass are working out, supplements, drugs, steroids.

 

Just guessing you dont need alot of training advise. If your looking to truely burn off the pure fat though, you should look around for the old herbal supplement that was taken off the over the counter market a few years back that starts with the letter e. Just ask around on some of the body building fourms, they will point you in the right direction if u want it.

 

If you want the natual way, eat less and run more, so in that aspect i guess cutting out breakfast would help, but i really dont see how a bowl of quaker oat squares could hurt you??? I guess since you would be running on the previous days left over calories your body would be forced to burn some of its stored fat.

[GrayClouds]

I suspect like most of these studies, we are talking about the margins. That if your doing the big things; watching calories, working with intensity, progression, eating clean a person will get 98% there. All of the other things; eating X times a day, supplements, eating before sleep, etc. ect. ect is all about the last 2%, which unless your making you pay-check for that last %s then it really does not matter. And if the person is they are likely using HGH, roids or other short cuts.

 

I even get a kick out of the old building muscle and you will burn more calories through out the day. Its true but honestly having 10lb of muscle vs 10lbs of fat a person will burn about the difference of eating extra 4 lifesavers a day. Though it undeniable they will look better eating those lifesavers

Edited July 24, 2010 by GrayClouds

[GrayClouds]

...and lets not forget the importance genetics plays in it all.

[Chocolat]

These are interesting articles, but there's not enough detail about the research (and not enough research overall) to support the claims, imo. I agree with GreyClouds that this likely matters most at the margins.

 

Anecdotally, I can say that when I first started working out, I was a breakfast-skipper. My bodyfat stayed at around 18%-20% during that time. As I learned more, I adopted a 6-small-meals approach -- including breakfast -- and saw my bodyfat drop to 14% without any change in my lifting.

 

I'm female and I am pretty strong for my size, which is admittedly not very big, but I am not interested in big. I can lift much heavier when I am fed than when I am not.

[TheLoneSock]

Some pretty interesting articles on EliteFTS:

 

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-part-2-breakfast/comment-page-1/#comments

 

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/interviews/intermittent-fasting%E2%80%94to-feast-or-not-to-feast-an-interview-with-martin-berkhan/

 

The idea seems to be that eating breakfast is counterproductive to fat loss. Berkhan uses a 16 hour fast followed by an 8 hour feeding window. Kiefer talks about skipping breakfast and having the first meal of the day around noon. Both approaches advocate the intake of carbs (and lots of them) post workout only.

 

I would be interested in trying this, but I'm afraid. Very afraid. I love my strength too much. I wouldn't mind being leaner, for sure, but I have a very hard time wrapping my head around how a morning fast diet would allow for simultaneous fat loss and performance gains.

 

However, if what Kiefer and Berkhan advocate is viable for both goals, we're looking at the holy grail of fitness nutrition.

 

What are your thoughts, LSers?

 

Well I think it has more to do with cutting overall caloric intake more so than fasting. Many Americans skip breakfast anyway and it hasn't helped them lose any weight (probably because they have an overall unhealthy lifestyle anyway, but still).

 

It's interesting but I'm not quite sure fasting is going to be end up being another path to fitness. There are studies though that say regular fasting can prolong your life span, as it reduces caloric intake stress on the body. Not sure of the exact details on how that works but I'd guess it falls right in line with what the links are talking about.

[tman666]

I can lift much heavier when I am fed than when I am not.

 

This is where the big hiccup would be for me.

 

Upon further reading, I came across this:

 

http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting.html

 

The above article basically talks about how the research is mostly inconclusive with regards to fat loss, but that performance definitely suffers in fasted individuals.

 

I know I reference Alan Aragon a lot, but it's hard not to when he tackles these questions objectively without trying to sell something (unlike Kiefer, the author of the first article.)

[Chocolat]

I know I reference Alan Aragon a lot, but it's hard not to when he tackles these questions objectively without trying to sell something (unlike Kiefer, the author of the first article.)

 

I recall reading an article of Aragon's in which he said it is ok to work out in the morning without eating first provided late night nutrition is spot on. I haven't fooled with this myself, although I did go through a period where I was working out at 6am and was fasted due to lack of time. Those were definitely not my best workouts!

 

One thing I will give Aragon is that he looks at all the research and not just that which suports a particular agenda (or product). For that reason, I tend to put quite a bit of stock into his opinions.

[allina]

I'm sure the plan can work, just like countless ways of weight loss can work, some healthy some not.

 

To me personally it sounds awful. I get up at 5:30am and I have to eat asap or I feel lousy.

[harveyjerry]

It seems rather reasonable intermittent fasting, there has been much research on all points to its health benefits. I do not know yet if it is optimal for bodybuilding and weight training, but why not try new things. Martin, would you be kind enough to show us some pictures of you and your development using your own protocol. You seem very skinny in your profile picture, but they are small.