When do labels cease to describe people?

[Spark1111]

Well, as this is an infidelity/OW/OM site:

 

I am not a WS or fWS or reformed WS.

 

I am not a OW, or fOW, or reformed OW.

 

I am, I guess, a fBS, or reformed (?) BS?

 

At any rate, since I can only speak to my own experiences, I do label myself at the very start of my posts, usually. As a former journalist, source identification speaks to perspective!

 

It shares the background of my own experience when offering support to someone else on this site.

 

On or off this site?

 

I am Spark: A kind, honest, passionate woman fiercely devoted to my children, my career, the caring of my elderly mother, and gloriously again partnered with my loving, devoted and sexy husband.

 

I am one lucky woman.

[Dexter Morgan]

I was talking to a friend today.

 

I commented on the number of happily married people who consider themselves "betrayed" spouses, even though it has been years and they consider themselves reconciled.

 

Why?

 

Isn't that like perpetuating a power struggle with the spouse? A way to keep the upper hand, even though the A is ancient history?

 

well lets see....the betrayed get to keep the reminder of the pain the WS caused them. They will never forget what the WS did to them.

 

And the WS needs to never forget what they did.

 

Besides, I don't think any of these people if they were at a cocktail party would say, "I'm Jane Doe, his betrayed spouse".

 

Thinking it is understandable.

 

How can you build something new if you hang on to something old?

 

perhaps to remember so that if one goes into this "something new" blindly and tries to start over, which is impossible, then they just might fall back into the same situation again.

[pureinheart]

well lets see....the betrayed get to keep the reminder of the pain the WS caused them. They will never forget what the WS did to them.

 

And the WS needs to never forget what they did.

 

Besides, I don't think any of these people if they were at a cocktail party would say, "I'm Jane Doe, his betrayed spouse".

 

Thinking it is understandable.

 

 

 

perhaps to remember so that if one goes into this "something new" blindly and tries to start over, which is impossible, then they just might fall back into the same situation again.

 

Hi Dex,

 

In bold, I think this can happen in any situation, whether the BS stays with the WS or finds a new R...love is a risk that I am willing to take, although not blindly, but hopefully.

[jthorne]

Ah - but who says the "O" in OWoman has to mean "other"?

 

It can also mean: only, obnoxious, ovulating, otherwise, obscure, oracular, obvious, and orgasmic - all of which I am some of the time, and some of which I am all of the time.

 

Do I really need a new name?

No, that was exactly my point.

 

The thing is, people can outgrow these labels and many have. I think the thread questions why so many people choose not to? What is the payoff for holding on to those labels?

If we are not the person labeled, who are we to decide they have outgrown them? Are we somehow more privy to their life, pain and healing than they are? If they want to refer to themselves as that, I don't think it's for me to decide what's right for them. An alcoholic might have quit drinking 10 years ago. Who am I to tell them that they can no longer refer to themselves as an alcoholic? That was the only point I was trying to make.

 

There are fOW who I would love to see throw away the OW label<snip>

I said I wasn't going to comment on this thread anymore, so I'll make this final comment and take my leave (again). How is someone supposed to do that when people remember who you are and why you came here? I had a post on a different board completely unrelated to why I came to LS. Someone thought it would be clever to bring up my former status. I assume it was an attempt to embarass me, because I have not been that label for quite awhile. If it was an attempt to hurt my feelings, congratulations to them, it worked.

 

Point is, it seems like it's practically impossible to completely shed a label around here even if you want to.

[herenow]

...An alcoholic might have quit drinking 10 years ago. Who am I to tell them that they can no longer refer to themselves as an alcoholic? That was the only point I was trying to make.

 

An alcoholic is never healed. They may be in recovery, but they are always alcoholics. Part of the reason for keeping the alcoholic "label" is so that they are always in touch with the possibility that they can fall back into old behaviors. It is vital to remember the past so that they won't repeat it.

 

I really don't understand why it is bad to remember that I was betrayed. I have forgiven and moved on, but it is still a part of who I am and being a BW had an impact on my life.

 

The path to my healing made me a better person, wife, mother, daughter, friend, etc. My H and I dealt with the issues in our marriage and we individually looked at our own personal issues and made positive changes. Why should I forget or hide that past?

[Dexter Morgan]

In bold, I think this can happen in any situation, whether the BS stays with the WS or finds a new R...love is a risk that I am willing to take, although not blindly, but hopefully.

 

oh I'm willing to take a risk on love too. Just not with someone that has cheated.

[White Flower]

well lets see....the betrayed get to keep the reminder of the pain the WS caused them. They will never forget what the WS did to them.

 

And the WS needs to never forget what they did.

 

Besides, I don't think any of these people if they were at a cocktail party would say, "I'm Jane Doe, his betrayed spouse".

 

Thinking it is understandable.

 

 

 

perhaps to remember so that if one goes into this "something new" blindly and tries to start over, which is impossible, then they just might fall back into the same situation again.

Impossible for who?

 

Nothing is impossible, especially if you can forgive and move on.

[Snowflower]

oh I'm willing to take a risk on love too. Just not with someone that has cheated.

 

FWIW Dex, I hope this will happen for you someday. What happened to you was completely awful.

 

Impossible for who?

 

Nothing is impossible, especially if you can forgive and move on.

 

This is very true. Beautifully said, WF!

[White Flower]

FWIW Dex, I hope this will happen for you someday. What happened to you was completely awful.

 

 

 

This is very true. Beautifully said, WF!

Thanks Snowflower!

 

Hey, if I can forgive and befriend my narcissistic exH, and I won't even describe all the ways he was unfaithful to me, anyone can!

[White Flower]

An alcoholic is never healed. They may be in recovery, but they are always alcoholics. Part of the reason for keeping the alcoholic "label" is so that they are always in touch with the possibility that they can fall back into old behaviors. It is vital to remember the past so that they won't repeat it.

 

I really don't understand why it is bad to remember that I was betrayed. I have forgiven and moved on, but it is still a part of who I am and being a BW had an impact on my life.

 

The path to my healing made me a better person, wife, mother, daughter, friend, etc. My H and I dealt with the issues in our marriage and we individually looked at our own personal issues and made positive changes. Why should I forget or hide that past?

Hi Herenow,

 

It's been awhile, how are you?

 

Since we are talking about labels, I hope to stay on topic even if it starts a new one ever so slightly.

 

True, an alcoholic always remains an alcoholic even if they never take another drink. But what about SAs?

 

I think you and I are of the few at LS who understand this topic so maybe I should just PM you but I wonder if you believe your H will always have the label of SA or if you believe he no longer needs it.

 

I happen to feel if the SA finds true intimacy, because intimacy disprupts the addictive cycle according to Dr. Patrick Carnes (and my own experience with exMM), they are healed of SA and no longer need to carry the label.

 

Now, if the SA loses the partner in which he achieved true intimacy, I feel he could plunge back in to old habits.

 

What do you think?

[Dexter Morgan]

Impossible for who?

 

Nothing is impossible, especially if you can forgive and move on.

 

forgiving and moving on is not "starting over"

 

there is no reset button that makes everyone forget. Nobody will ever forget, therefore there is no starting over.

[silktricks]

I was talking to a friend today.

 

I commented on the number of happily married people who consider themselves "betrayed" spouses, even though it has been years and they consider themselves reconciled.

 

Why?

 

Isn't that like perpetuating a power struggle with the spouse? A way to keep the upper hand, even though the A is ancient history?

 

How can you build something new if you hang on to something old? And when do you simply go back to "spouses" without defining what type of spouse?

 

GEL

 

I don't know about other people, but I only ever refer to myself as a BS here on LS - and usually (I think) I use the term fBS or formerBS... As far as I'm concerned, I do it as a matter of politeness to other LSers, so that new people have more clarity as to what point-of-view I take.

 

As far as real life, I would never refer to myself as a betrayed spouse or former betrayed spouse, as that would IMO be betraying my husband.

[herenow]

Hi Herenow,

 

It's been awhile, how are you?

 

Since we are talking about labels, I hope to stay on topic even if it starts a new one ever so slightly.

 

True, an alcoholic always remains an alcoholic even if they never take another drink. But what about SAs?

 

I think you and I are of the few at LS who understand this topic so maybe I should just PM you but I wonder if you believe your H will always have the label of SA or if you believe he no longer needs it.

 

I happen to feel if the SA finds true intimacy, because intimacy disprupts the addictive cycle according to Dr. Patrick Carnes (and my own experience with exMM), they are healed of SA and no longer need to carry the label.

 

Now, if the SA loses the partner in which he achieved true intimacy, I feel he could plunge back in to old habits.

 

What do you think?

 

I don't think this is off topic as it applies to "labels".

 

My H goes to AA meetings. He has been to one SA meeting and it wasn't the right place for him. Addiction is in his personality. Many alcoholics have had affairs or been addicted to the internet, food, work, whatever.

 

Since it's how he is wired, yes he will always carry the label. It's by choice that he is committed to recovery.

I think when an addict feels they are totally cured the trouble begins again. No addict is ever cured, they are always in recovery. They wake up every morning with a promise to do the best they can. This is a daily practice.

 

I support him in every way and our lives have been enhanced by his commitment to AA. He does it for himself, but I reap the benefits as well as everyone else he deals with day to day.

 

And, yes, it has been a while. Everything is great. Hope all is well with you.

Edited July 28, 2010 by herenow

[White Flower]

perhaps to remember so that if one goes into this "something new" blindly and tries to start over, which is impossible, then they just might fall back into the same situation again.

 

Impossible for who?

 

Nothing is impossible, especially if you can forgive and move on.

 

forgiving and moving on is not "starting over"

 

there is no reset button that makes everyone forget. Nobody will ever forget, therefore there is no starting over.

Forgiving enables us to move on and yes starting over. Nobody said anything about forgetting. We will always remember what happened in the past, yet despite our memory we can move on, rebuild, and start over. It happens every day.

[Dexter Morgan]

Forgiving enables us to move on and yes starting over. Nobody said anything about forgetting. We will always remember what happened in the past, yet despite our memory we can move on, rebuild, and start over. It happens every day.

 

easily spoken by the people who are doing the betraying and hoping for a "fresh start".

 

not so easy for the people that get to remember what the betrayer did.

 

why bother. I'd rather make new memories with someone that didn't hurt me like that.

[White Flower]

easily spoken by the people who are doing the betraying and hoping for a "fresh start".

 

not so easy for the people that get to remember what the betrayer did.

 

why bother. I'd rather make new memories with someone that didn't hurt me like that.

You must have forgotten that I was betrayed. So, not so easily spoken Dexter, just serious experience.

 

Your last sentence makes sense to me. That is what I was talking about.

[Dexter Morgan]

You must have forgotten that I was betrayed. So, not so easily spoken Dexter, just serious experience.

 

Your last sentence makes sense to me. That is what I was talking about.

 

but if I remember correctly, you also became the other woman after being a BS. So pretty much negates your feelings as a BS IMO. you are now an OW, therefore seem to speak more from the OW side of you.

[White Flower]

but if I remember correctly, you also became the other woman after being a BS. So pretty much negates your feelings as a BS IMO. you are now an OW, therefore seem to speak more from the OW side of you.

I don't see one cancelling the other out. I see myself fully integrated. It's all a process and we continue to learn and grow from said process.

 

BTW, the A is over and I'm no longer the OW.